Five things to take from this: Our Star Crossed Coaches

"Bowl game or bust" sounds incredibly foreign to Michigan fans, but I think you're absolutely right.

I thought that Rich Rodriguez was this magical wizard of a man who could do a lot with a little. I thought mediocre players became solid starters under his tutelage and in no time at all. I thought Mike Barwis took the little guys and turned them into baby eating heathens that rip apart the man they are blocking/being blocked by.

Either some people who post on this board have been lying to me or now all of a sudden I have to wait for these things to happen.

I don't know much about recruiting but I enjoy following it. It seems like we need to have a big year on defense in order to turn it around a couple of years from now. Is there anybody that knows what our chances are for landing any good defensive recruits? Is there any chance we'll ever be able to replace BG?

One thing you can take to the bank is that RR will not be fired at the end of this season. Whatever your opinion of him or his right to stay, he won't be fired after this season, or the next.

The reality is we are in the middle of a rough transition, rougher than any of us hoped for. The problems with the defense are almost all attributable to a talent deficit at certain key positions. That will get better - the insertion of Fitzgerald yesterday offered a glimmer of hope for the future.

Despite the loss we were improved in many ways compared with the previous several weeks. Major mistakes cost dearly once again. Let's hope we throw caution to the wind, forget the negatives, and come out flying in Madison.

Sometimes being a sports fanatic can rake you over the coals. I feel like someone ripped my heart out and pounded nails in it.

I still really like where this team is headed on both sides of the ball, and I realize that what RR is trying to do is fighting against 60 years of smashmouth football. It couldn't be a bigger transition for us to make, and it's a slow process.

I agree that the defense is the worst in the Big Ten. If you score around 30 points a game, you should win 90% of them. This team has to keep up with a D that gives up big plays in every quarter. I like what GERG is doing, but the players make plays. You could have the brightest defensive coaches in the history of the game and our secondary would still make 'em look bad. Here's to Michigan snagging some more safety talent in this recruiting class.

On a side note - when's the last time Purdue beat OSU and UM in the same year? Has it ever happened?

And here's where we start running into problems. A current season affects the following recuriting class; obviously 3-9 last season has hurt this year's recruiting class. But if we go 5-7, next year's class is going have same problems as this year's class. Top recruits will bypass us and we'll have to take more tweeners and projects. And if we go 6-6 or 7-5 next year, the following year's class will be hampered. With less top talent coming in every year, it's just going to make our rebuilding efforts even more harder.

In a reverse psychology way, the one thing RR has going for him on the recruiting trail is just how bad (and thin) the D is. He can practically assure a recruit that he will get playing time quickly. So, balance a post-season bowl appearance with the promise of making an early impact on the team.

2000/2001 season I believe. When we were up big oon the Boilers and let them back in the game and they beat us. Same with Northwestern, Anthony Thomas is through the hole and on his way to the end zone and somebody pokes the ball out.

As of now we have two legitimate ones, so we'll need to find at least two, and three if Warren leaves. If Warren stays, I think it makes sense to lump CBs and safeties together because Woolfolk could move back to S if another corner steps up and two safeties don't.

We will have more candidates in 2010 than in 2009: Williams, Turner, Teric Jones, Emilien, Floyd, Gordon, Witty (?), Kovacs, and the true freshmen Talbott, Avery, M Robinson, Johnson, and presumably a couple more. Obviously, none of them are legit DBs at this point and most of them are probably a long way from contributing. But I think the odds are decent that at least one or even two of them will turn out to be serviceable in 2010.

Another poster in this thread wondered if Purdue had ever beaten UM and OSU in the same season. Has any team ever beaten UM and OSU yet finished with a losing record, as Purdue will if they lose to either MSU or Indiana?

Until we establish an identity on defense. There has to be a set scheme with identifiable roles for each player manifested on the field, whether good or not, before high end recruits commit here. Right now, the defensive coaches are trying different schemes each week out of desperation and the players are lost. Yes, playing time is great, but you also have to know what system you're playing for and until that is established, defensive recruiting won't improve.

For the next two games, the defense should just stick to one scheme and not deviate from the scheme. See where the problems are because there aren't any quick fix solutions. It can't possibly get any worse.

Hey Michigan fans. Purdue fan here. First I want to say this site is really cool. Some Purdue blog linked to it the other day and I've been checking it out for the past few days. Regarding the Hope/Rodriguez thing, I would say that, as a Purdue fan, I really would have preferred that Hope not done that. It was unnecessary. However, in his defense, I will say a couple of things. First, it is important to remember that Danny Hope really, really hates Rich Rodriguez. Second, it's important to keep in mind that basically everyone hates Rich Rodriguez. Yesterday during his press conference he kind of acted like "Gosh, I'm not sure why he did that, that wasn't very nice." However, I think even Michigan fans know that Rodriguez is pretty much a jerk, and, although midfield after the game was not the appropriate time for that encounter, he probably had it coming.

As a Purdue fan, I can tell you that the whole thing likely has about 10% to do with the Reckman suspension and 90% to do with the Roundtree de-commit. Michigan is used to getting four-star wide receivers and always has a ton of talent. However, Purdue absolutely needed Roundtree, and losing him on signing day to a new Big Ten coach at a power program was kind of Purdue's nightmare. So, Danny Hope may be an asshole, but he's our asshole, just like Rich Rodriguez is your asshole. I'm pretty sure almost all college football coaches are assholes. It's kind of a necessary trait. Some just hide it better than others (Jim Tressel comes to mind). Danny Hope is kind a good ol' boy tough guy, so he chose midfield in the Big House to be an asshole. That's just who he is. I wish he hadn't done it, but if that's the attitude it takes to win at Purdue, I'll take it.

I agree that the defense is probably the worst in the B10.

I think that the defense will be improved next year, with Warren back, Roh putting on about 20 pounds, Lalotta and Campbell improving the line overall (which is just too small and gets overwhelmed), safety dramatically improved, and Turner and one of the freshman stepping in at corner. We'll have to see which of this year's or next year's freshmen can step in at LB.

Here's to hoping we can land some of those recruits in the pipeline for the defense to close out the class.

While there were earlier comparisons of our defense to Alabama, etc., we are losing to Illinois, Purdue, and almost to Indiana. Surely our defense is significantly better than these teams.

Our recruiting class has enough quality athletes to rank consistently in the top 20 nationwide, but in reality we are playing around 50 or lower.

Given the raw talent recruited, the coaches should be able to teach gifted athletes what they need for the team to compete in the upper tier of the Big Ten.

RR has brought the assistant defensive coaches with him from WV. After this season, more changes apparently need to be made.

I was terrfied we'd end up with another conservative guy who would coach us to every year moderate success except for losing usually to OSU and almost always to USC. So I'm still happy we found RR. And I worry not at all anymore, despite the continuing and increasing howlings, that he will be fired. First there is no one to replace him with that could do any better with what we have to work with, and second, Mary Sue showed she will stick with her picks by giving kirk ferentz (iowa) years to build up that program...which is paying off now (they lost yesterday because QB was injured...). A new AD is going to do things her way, and that's her way (BTW Ferentz makes even more money than RR - I think it's the big money that is primary cause of RR hatred..they think big money = instant success assured). So enjoy watching our offense (assuming reasonable health) pile up points over the next several years, waiting, waiting for a good D...it'll be awhile.

As unpopular as the opinion may be, I can no longer excuse the coaching for what has happened. Losing breeds excuses and the fact is that while I was in favor of Rodriguez from the get go, he has shown some frightening coaching patterns. I love the spread offense, but you don't have to look far to find teams with similar offenses achieving higher plateaus. I know our defense is bad due to talent, but some of the mistakes made (I'd say a lot) are due to a poor scheme or a lack of adjustments or preparation.
Just to give a few examples:

1) Why are our corners consistently 8-10 yards off the LOS?

2) Our safeties may be bad and slow in coverage, but there is no excuse for letting anyone behind you. That is basic safety play 101.

3) Our containment and gap assignment is horrible. To me, that is coaching and can't be simply blamed on talent level.

Basically, it boils down to discipline IMO. I don't mind seeing more talented players make great plays, but I do mind when our players are fooled the same way week in and week out by basic play action plays or anything misdirection. We might get beat by more talented receivers in press coverage, but we don't even try.
I understand the counter to this argument is that if we try something else we'll get burned by something else, but my problem is that we don't mix it up enough. I'm not talking about making things more complicated to execute for the players, I'm talking about simple adjustments.
Again, I'd like to emphasize that I support our coach and team, but I would have to be blind to think that they don't deserve a good amount of blame for the situation Michigan is in.

Thats what had everyone so excited is that RR had done so much with so little at WV, so while Lloyd had done so little with so much for MI. How the defense can make the same mistaqkes and blow the same assighnments week after week for 2 years in a row is beyond me. I think Gerg should get another year just because of his excellent track record as a DC, and to see if a little continuity helps, but I think some of the position caoches need to be looking for Jobs, mainly Hopson.

As for Danny Hope, I just want to thank him. After the game, I had my doubts about the transition, about the coaching staff, and about the future of the program. Nothing has really changed, but such a douche bag move has me back directly behind this Team and it's coaches and players, just to see them turn this thing around, and after we beat the dog out of what will still be a bad Purdue team next year, maybe RR can walk across the field and tell that Jackass "Thanks for what you did".

GO BLUE.