For the first time, I am truly scared.
As I ate my reheated pizza this morning, I opened my Kindle and flipped to the front page of the Detroit Free Press. Needless to say I was a little bit shocked at the front page article about the "rigorous football program under Rich Rodriguez". The article alledges that during the off-season workouts, players were pushed far more than the 8-hour limit, resulting in deteriorating grades and physical illness.
However, as NCAA sanctions and the like were mentioned, I began to see a glimmer of hope:
1. All programs do this. As everyone knows, in college (and high school sports, for that matter) off season workouts are not "voluntary", but mandatory if you ever want to see the field.
2. The coaches never strictly declared they were mandatory. Because of this, I'm not sure the NCAA truly can come back and slam the U-M football program. Besides, what are they going to do, take away our 3 wins from last year?
3. Finally, this seems to be another facet of the "wah wah family values" that we've seen develop over the last year and half. Hopefully the NCAA will take this into consideration when reviewing the situation.
However, as NCAA sanctions and the like were mentioned, I began to see a glimmer of hope:
1. All programs do this. As everyone knows, in college (and high school sports, for that matter) off season workouts are not "voluntary", but mandatory if you ever want to see the field.
2. The coaches never strictly declared they were mandatory. Because of this, I'm not sure the NCAA truly can come back and slam the U-M football program. Besides, what are they going to do, take away our 3 wins from last year?
3. Finally, this seems to be another facet of the "wah wah family values" that we've seen develop over the last year and half. Hopefully the NCAA will take this into consideration when reviewing the situation.
August 30th, 2009 at 9:13 AM ^
I too am a bit worried. What will this article do for recruiting? What will it do for the team chemistry that has been built up over the past year. ALso, if this is true how can you have "team chemistry" with players that are constantly complaining about the program? Are these players left over from the Carr program? Were the players just stating the facts, that they are practicing that much because the SUCKED last year? This article has definitely put a damper on a beautiful sunny Sunday. Go Blue...
August 30th, 2009 at 9:32 AM ^
This article will not do a damn thing against recruiting. Or team "chemistry". This article will sell papers and cause chatter and have the NCAA investigate.
August 30th, 2009 at 12:41 PM ^
Yep. We had a recruit decommit and decide to go to Tulsa this year.
Tulsa. His commentary on the situation:
"The (TU) offense is wide open pretty much you know you've got a bunch of talented, skilled receivers around you and it just brings a lot to the table," Beaver says. "And, when you've got a lot of skill guys, the defense doesn't really respect the quarterback, so you've just gotta go out there and just try to spread the ball out and when things break down, that's when your athleticism comes in the game."
Recruits do stupid, inexplicable things all the time. I don't think they factor the wet dreams of a Freep reporter into their decision.
August 30th, 2009 at 9:15 AM ^
The potential repercussions don't stop at the NCAA. All any coach has to do now is wave the goddamn Free Press at any recruit if they're even thinking about going to Michigan. Every Big Ten coach is going to get a copy of today's paper, keep it on file, and damn near fax a copy to every high school they've ever recruited. Whether or not "everyone does it" is irrelevant. It's not gonna matter if they find that out after they've signed on someone else's dotted line.
August 30th, 2009 at 9:43 AM ^
While I agree that the "everybody else does it" argument is not a good excuse, it is most certainly true. Does anybody really think OSU players practice only 8 hours per week? What are they doing the rest of the time, studying??? I think not. Any coach who waves this article in front of potential recruits is going to have serious trust/chemistry issues with those recruits when they arrive and are expected to work much harder than the "mandatory" requirements.
August 30th, 2009 at 2:42 PM ^
Exactly, every major program that really wants to win practices however much they want. And the NCAA will most certainly make a statement about how they are horrified by the allegations despite the fact that they are fully aware that rules on practice time are not strictly adhered too. Yes, a rule is a rule, but the fact that it is widely known that everyone breaks and that fact should be given some space. Plus, it is ridiculous to say "rules are rules, cheating is cheating" and compare giving players money and cars to practicing them a litter harder.
August 30th, 2009 at 9:17 AM ^
"It was mandatory," one player said. "They'd tell you it wasn't, but it really was. If you didn't show up, there was punishment. I just felt for the guys that did miss a workout and had to go through the personal hell they would go through."
So the player says right in there, "they'd tell you it wasn't, but it really was". That is the dumbest thing ever. That isn't mandatory - that's if you want to play you better work as hard as everyone else in the off season. There is no rule against that. But now the Freep has just, again, tried to tarnish the name of the University. Even if the NCAA finds out that there is nothing to this, which I think they will, it still hurts our recruiting and the name.
August 30th, 2009 at 9:24 AM ^
I think this requires some nuance, though. There's a subtle difference between "if you don't do the voluntary workouts, you'll fall behind the other guys who do because they'll be getting better" and "if you don't do the voluntary workouts, you're going to have to run until you puke".
Clearly the latter implies a mandate, whereas the former implies the obvious consequences of not practicing: you won't get any better. There's an important difference between the two.
But I'm still not convinced this is a big deal; it's more of a hand-in-the-cookie-jar situation.
August 30th, 2009 at 9:34 AM ^
Playing time is not a right. It is a privilege that must be earned. To not give coaches the right to sit players for not exceeding the mandatory time is ridiculous.
These are floors not ceilings. They are reflective of real life. You only need a 2.0 to pass, but students always exceed those minimum expectations by putting in more time. By your logic, the student who graduates cum laude was forced to go above and beyond what was necessary in violation of NCAA rules.
August 30th, 2009 at 10:17 AM ^
but also a similarity in that neither is mandatory
August 30th, 2009 at 9:18 AM ^
Rodriguez and the team announced after spring practice that the team's cumulative GPA was higher in the winter semester than for any semester in over 20 years. Maybe it hurt the grades of the 6 current OR former players who spoke out, but it obviously was not the case for the team. Lloyd never had a team with a higher GPA in a semester.
August 30th, 2009 at 9:19 AM ^
I'm still not entirely sure what to make of this. You could barely maintain a competitive intramural squad, much less a D1 contender, on 8 hours a week...but Rodriguez and staff seem to have flouted the letter of the law pretty flagrantly. The most troubling thing to me is that a lot of current players would be willing to come forward and say negative things about the program to the press. Interested to hear Brian's take.
August 30th, 2009 at 3:14 PM ^
I've not convinced these are major infractions, but let's not kid ourselves: "everyone does it" is a terrible argument. "Tu quoquo" arguments are so bad that they have a codified name and are considered a classic logical fallacy.
So you got caught doing something you shouldn't have been doing. Now what? No word of a NCAA investigation (yet?), so right now it's just an embarrassing faux pas.
August 30th, 2009 at 9:24 AM ^
Every recruit that we bring in in an official or unofficial capacity sees the workout program and gets a briefing from Barwis himself. This is selling recruits! They know when they sign at UM they are going to be pushed to their physical limit to make them the best possible athlete they can be. Most highly rated recruits are looking for exactly that. Every time Barwis talks about the NFL guys coming in the summer and puking in the cans like everyone else it is a good thing. Hard training gets you to the next level and that is what we offer. So if a recruit is scared by the S&C program let him go elsewhere because at Michigan we WORK to become champions! I also think that the Free press has twisted any word of a current and probably young player to get some national press.
August 30th, 2009 at 9:28 AM ^
"Rodriguez has posted a big sign above the entrance to the team’s weight room that says, “Through these doors walks the best conditioned, most disciplined, and hardest working football team in America.”
If that’s true, it did not show on the field last fall. For the season, the Wolverines were outscored, 166-157, in the first half — and 181-86 in the second half, when conditioning is crucial."
Michael Rosenberg, expert Exercise Physiologist and College Football Analyst, strikes again
August 30th, 2009 at 9:33 AM ^
Grrrr, Saturday can not get here soon enough...
August 30th, 2009 at 9:36 AM ^
(The above was sarcasm referring to Michael Rosenberg being an idiot)
August 30th, 2009 at 10:07 AM ^
my bad... it's still kinda early.
August 30th, 2009 at 11:56 AM ^
We seriously need a sarcasm font on this site
August 31st, 2009 at 2:31 PM ^
/sarcasm
August 30th, 2009 at 9:47 AM ^
conditioning wasn't the problem last year.
August 30th, 2009 at 11:59 AM ^
is a quote from the article people
August 30th, 2009 at 12:03 PM ^
Just consider the fact that teams could just adjust to us in the second half and then blow us out. Considering how bad we looked at times last year, now that we have a more diverse offense, with more talent there, just think about how good we could be. We were right in the game against OSU and PSU, and then choked. Personally, I am pumped to start putting up some big numbers.
So screw Rosenburg. Let Brian respond to us, his faithful readers and we can move from there. We all know Rosenburg likes to bend the information, and none of them filled out the paperwork to say they had a problem, so most likely, nothing can come from this. Is it annoying yes, but let's see what kind of truth comes out over the next few weeks. Until Rosenburg names his people there is no hard facts.
August 31st, 2009 at 10:32 PM ^
that you can consider two games that UM was collectively outscored 88-24 "chokes". I think you meant "blown out". UM was IN the games though, for a time, prior to the "blow outs". "Choke" to me implies that the team failed at one particular moment that cost them the entire game. Whatever you call it, UM didn't "choke" against OSU or PSU, they lost going away. Let's call a spade a spade here.
August 30th, 2009 at 9:27 AM ^
Do not be scared of horseshit.
August 30th, 2009 at 9:29 AM ^
some of you are assuming that this story is real. Have you people ever read articles by this guy? The freep has become a sensationalistic "enquirer" version of a blog site. They post articles that make Michigan fans mad, and watch the bloggers argue all day about it. There are more non-UM fans on this site, and they are obsessed with their hatred for all things maize and blue.
I don't even believe that there actually were players who complained about workouts. Look at the article again and then compare it to a tabloid article. All the same elements are there - no real facts supported by no real people. This guy's trying to make some waves here, and they have gone too far with this crap.
August 30th, 2009 at 9:53 AM ^
and reeks of homerism. You honestly believe that these quotes and players were made up? That Terance Taylor didn't say what he was quoted as saying? Please, get some perspective, even if the Freep has lost theirs. This article proves absolutely nothing, but it does raise a question that we owe it to ourselves to answer, internally, via the university.
August 30th, 2009 at 10:08 AM ^
Incorrect. It's not that we shouldn't be curious about potential infractions, it's that what is being reported defies logic. Occam's Razor, my friend.
One one hand, we have a hidden, secret mandatory workout schedule that, despite rising team GPAs, is crushing the players' ability to be good students put forth by anonymous sources mostly by players recruited by a previous regime who are discontented with the new standards of excellence, and all this put forth in violation of NCAA rules by a coach under scrutiny by local and national media.
On the other, we have a coach that demands excellence and players working like hell to get there and a couple kids who couldn't cut it doing some bitching.
Uh, it raises no questions.
August 30th, 2009 at 11:47 AM ^
There are quotes from 3 non-anonymous sources, (two named players, one former named player), and several unnamed players, all of which at minimum, and giving the Freep story zero credence beyond those quotes, bring up a possibility of NCAA violations. And you don't think that raises even one question that should at least be answered, internally?
And BTW, if Occam's razor applies here, the simplest explanation is that they DID go over the time limits. I'm not saying they did, and the Freep story proves nothing. But to say, as the person I replied to originally, that we can't believe quotes from named players, and to say that not one question is raised by this article, IMO defies common sense.
August 30th, 2009 at 9:33 AM ^
Also, I hope everyone else enjoyed the references to Gittleson as much as I did. I wonder what Bo would have said about this nonsense?
August 30th, 2009 at 9:37 AM ^
You have posted the first of what will surely be 8000 diaries on this subject.
Please don't hide behind the "everybody doing it" mantra. It doesn't work, and RR should know he will be watched. He has PO'd a lot of former players, and as we now see, maybe they have sumpin' to say.
One thing bothers me from an aesthetics standpoint (if not common sense): If the coaches were, um, forcing guys to practice and stay for 8, 9, or 10 hours, it kind of justifies MY opinion that the team seemed to just wear down physically and emotionally last season. Remember, like it or not, these guys had that much talked bout "country club" atmosphere going on, and the change was tremendous for them all. One that I'm not sure many without supreme dedication can undergo, at least without more than a little griping.
So, with the season going down the toilet, the staff never stopped doing that? Never gave them a break? A Sunday off? (of course they may have, but we don't know, just sayin') Losing, losing, losing. Physical workouts that took their toll in many ways. To me, hat is almost akin to trying to find your swing in the middle of a golf round after losing it. Without doing something different. Who knows what a midseason break could have done? For the record, players who are not injured ought to be doing something other than practicing and being run through the gauntlet the day after a game, JMO.
August 30th, 2009 at 9:52 AM ^
You are wrong. The more you keep saying this, and slamming RR the more outsiders get what they want. No one outside of AA wants RR as our coach. They know what he's capable of. They're trying to get rid of him, and turn our program into what Notre Dame has been since Bob Davie. Continually switching coaches, and mediocre seasons. How dare you. Please don't consider yourself maize and blue.
August 30th, 2009 at 10:08 AM ^
I'm simply speculating on the merit of having Sunday jam sessions that broke the rules. And whether they proved to be beneficial.
Sorry, the story may be agenda driven, but it does seem to have some validity. The discussions with Stokes and Hawthorne also take away some of the argument being based wholly on "disgruntled former players."
I also find many statements here and on other boards by Michigan fans to be problematic, if not hypocritical. Much of our fan base has for years accused other coaches of being cheaters and rule breakers without a shred of proof. I'm not gonna equate extra practice and workouts with paying players and other such activities, but you know, cheatin' IS cheatin'. And the evidence offered by Rosenberg seems pretty solid.
I can be as Maize and Blue as the next jammie wearing drool cup sporting kool aid drinker, but I also can understand that UM isn't about to jump out of a boat and walk on water.
August 30th, 2009 at 10:09 AM ^
Bingo.
August 30th, 2009 at 11:52 AM ^
Boom. Roasted.
August 30th, 2009 at 10:52 AM ^
You were wrong because I deleted 2 diaries last night that were totally ridiculous, one basically including the call for a posse to hang RR. So they just weren't the first.
August 30th, 2009 at 9:45 AM ^
this is really pissing me off. at this point, RR just needs wins. if he wins, none of this will be an issue.
August 30th, 2009 at 9:52 AM ^
At this point I'm wondering if wins will only turn these articles into "RR doesn't win the right way" columns.
August 30th, 2009 at 9:47 AM ^
I disagree with the point of the article when Rosenberg decided to try to turn an investigative piece into a commentary about why Michigan football had a 3-9 season. Either be an investigative journalist, or be a columnist. You can't have it both ways.
August 30th, 2009 at 10:01 AM ^
Oh, so this is how Terrence Taylor threw up 225 37 times at the combine last year. I had thought that was dumb luck.
Shut up Rosenberg, those who stay will be champions, those who read the free press will be sexually frustrated and unemployed.
August 30th, 2009 at 12:04 PM ^
I have both of those conditions and who to blame for it. Fucking Free Press bastards.
August 30th, 2009 at 10:08 AM ^
I've been a RichRod supporter since he got here, but he knew, or should have known, that he was under the microscope and had players not buying in from the start. That's what makes this particularly disturbing. In the situation he was in, he needed to follow the rules to the T and he should have known that.
Here's what I'd love to hear from Brian if he knows or can find out:
1. How common are voluntary (but not really voluntary) extra workouts?
2. What does this make him think of RichRod not just in terms of his commitment to following rules but in terms of his awareness of the situation he is in and the standards that are expected?
August 30th, 2009 at 10:08 AM ^
"When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them. Keep believing."
August 30th, 2009 at 10:12 AM ^
I am 100% behind RR but the question becomes, IMHO, when will RR say F--- it and not want to deal with the B.S. that has come with the MI gig? I am not saying that he is a quitter, etc. but I am curious how much more toll this nonsense will take on RR's psyche and if there will come a point when he realizes that AA just isn't worth all of the extra stress and distractions? I wonder how much flack he got at WVU? Probably not that much since they were a smaller program and he was an alum.
August 30th, 2009 at 12:33 PM ^
if he leaves michigan now, he'd have no place to go. lets face it, his reputation has taken a huge hit since coming to michigan. i doubt that any big time program would want to bring him on board at this current time. the only thing he can do to fix his reputation is to win here and to win soon to shut the haters up.
August 30th, 2009 at 2:16 PM ^
Something will open up after this season or he hones his mad skillz as an OC somewheres. The a job opens up in a place where football really matters, and they understand what you have to do to win and they are not hypocritical about it.
BOOM ROASTED--and RR wins big time. The "hit" to his rep will last about as long as it takes to pack his bags and get the fuck out of Michigan.
August 31st, 2009 at 4:42 PM ^
Feel stupid yet?
August 30th, 2009 at 10:19 AM ^
WTF with the thread title? "I'm truly scared?" Your post says the opposite.
August 30th, 2009 at 10:22 AM ^
FWIW from a college gameday show with trey wingo(i believe that's who it was) teams are allowed 20hrs of practice a week. which finished with a wink and a nod about college teams not somehow exceeding those hrs. so yes everyone does do it. it may not be an excuse but it is widely known throughout the industry. also i don't know in what excact context the 8hrs of practice these people were alleging that got exceeded. but i felt like some kids left the program and wanted to whine and cry a little bit and had a willing accomplice in the freep. also i kinda felt the "mandatory" non-mandatory workouts are kinda like homework. doing your homework for school isn't excactly mandatory and sure if you choose not to do it you will be "punished" with worse grades. i do agree with other posters though that after a 3-9 season the bad press will not help recruiting and a winning season will go a long way to stopping the negetive press. people always wanna kick a winner when they are down.
August 30th, 2009 at 10:39 AM ^
are worried about something that, frankly, isn't true.
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