That right there got you a +1 from me.
Excellent discussion of Dinosaurs.
For an attosecond, I thought the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire would make good raw material for the following Sparty discussion and a clever title to a diary entry. Then I instantly apologized to my computer screen. Rome fell because it was once great. The Spartan “fall” I am going to discuss is akin to drunk trying to pull himself up only to immediately face plant again.
We have a great pleasure before us, Wolverine fans: years of Sparty anguish.
Here is the Sparty problem in a nutshell: their frame of reference is that failure is an event measured in geological time. What they fail to understand is that Michigan failure will be measured in Planck time. They had an aberrant year or two in the 60s that they ferociously cling to, like an abused Lena clinging insanely to Thomas Covenant after she had grown old. Now, the Sparty faithful see Michigan reeling from the events of last season and, bolstered by an uptick in recruiting that is being hailed in the local press, believe in their heart of hearts that MSU an UM are in the process of trading places and that Michigan's fall will be long and low.
The problem is that they’ve ridden a dinosaur to a horse race. Not the freaky fast, velociraptor type of dinosaur, but a stegosaur, I think. (Given the brain size of the stegosaurus, I think the comparison is a double winner!) It actually is named a Dantoniosaur, and it fundamentally lacks the reflexes necessary to succeed in a Holocene football age. I actually think that Dantonio would have been a damn good coach about 20 years ago. He espouses smashmouth football and power running, but today he is a pale reflection of Jim Tressel; all the stodginess of Tressel without the periodic flash of creativity to keep everyone other than the SEC in a low state of fear. The only solution to his Dantoniosaur-ness is to recruit top ten talent, and that just ain’t gonna happen.
Here’s where Michigan sips from the cup of schadenfreude (it’s a shame such a cool word has become clichéd). The Dantoniosaur should bring enough to the game to stay around for a long time, a la John Cooper. And against Lloyd Carr, I think he would have had success, nipping just enough out of our 2 out of 3 winning rate to irritate. But Rodriguez is a whole different animal, and a warm-blooded one at that. Once he gets his wits and his system and his players fine tuned, cold-blooded MSU will represent at most a speed bump, and those extra four star players that have suddenly appeared in their Christmas stocking will melt away.
Each year, they’ll be good enough to thump the chest a bit. And 4 out of 5 times, RR will go Oklahoma on them. I can’t wait!
That right there got you a +1 from me.
Excellent discussion of Dinosaurs.
The pleasure and novelty of having a coach that's not insane (well, not in a goofy way) will soon wear off and I believe that the new MSU groupies will die down. MSU happens to be an interesting team because of their recent past, and the changes in attitude, that people are latching on. The fact that he came from OSU is just icing on the cake. IF Dantonio is able to somehow re-institute smashmouth football as something that people actually want to emulate and watch, then all props to him. I'm a big proponent of differing styles in the sport, and am kind of glad that Dantonio chose that one, for various reasons. God help us if every team starts using the same basic offense like the NFL. The Dantonio's, Rodriguez's, Paul Johnson's, Leach's, etc, and their respective styles are what make CFB one of the more intriguing sports to watch. So, in a roundabout way, thanks to Dantonio, and enjoy the fame and (sort of) fortune while you can.....
I DO think he's insane. If UM would have somehow pulled that game out of arse last year, the guy may very well have pulled a Peter Finch "Network" on us.
And it would have been fun.
Last year wasn't close. Are you forgetting the TD that wasn't on 3rd down? If I remember correctly that was third down at the 38. zero points.
I like it "Winning breeds confidence" MSU at 9-3 "Losing breeds reality" u of m 3-9
could not have said it better
on being 2 for the decade now. That's more wins than you normally get per decade, isn't it?
Bo can't help you any more. Yes since Saben left we have stunk. You got me.
If I were you I would be more concerned bout Dick winning enough games this year not to get fired.
I am looking forward to the future you can't get out of the past.
Does the future scare you?
No, the future does not scare me. I don't control it. I just watch football.
2nd, a more effective argument would have been to say "Lloyd Carr can't save you now." Saying Bo can't save us implies we fell down after he left. Reality is, we've been kicking your ass since Bo retired. Again, 1 year does not a program make. You may be finding this out very soon young Sparty.
On a final note, what's the opposite of racking up points? Because that's what Izzo is doing.
On a final final note, does it make you jealous that I, a Michigan fan, got to actually go inside the house and visit Izzo, your hero?
on joining today, making an ass of yourself, earning negative points, spelling Saban wrong, and perpetuating negative stereotypes of MSU fans.
I'm LOL-ing "Saben"
Having said that:
The future does not scare me. I'm kind of a geezer -- by this blog's standards -- and I've seen this show before, Iz. The "MSU is turning the tide over U-M" meme isn't new -- Saban (or Saben, if you prefer) Perles (or Perlis, if you prefer.)
Plus, Coach Rodriguez has been a Div. I-A HC before, with fine results. It's reasonable to think he knows what he is doing.
MSU has averaged about two 4-star recruits per year.
They should be pretty fairly good this year, though they lost 2 key producers at QB and TB. The Spartan defense should be quite good with their experienced DL and LBs.
MSU beat a downtrodden Michigan team last year for the first time since 1990, finished 9-4, landed three 4-star recruits (Norman, Baker and Caper) for the first time since 2005 when John L. Smith was HC, and all of the sudden we have the mainstream media having us believe that the Spartans are going to be a perennial Big Ten title contender.
We've sort of seen this movie before, haven't we?
I consider Darryl Rodgers and George Perles to be far better football coaches than Dantonio.
Rivals has MSU landing 10 4* recruits last year; they had 1 4* and 3 4* recruits in the previous years.
MSU had ten 4* last year (Rivals) this year we have three 4* out of seven players so far. scUM has 4 out of 15. Who do you think will have the better class when it is all said and done? Two days ago Dior Mathis of Cass Tech listed MSU and Oregon as his leaders. scUM has owned this school in the past(3 players last year).
We are all seeing the switch before are eyes. If I were verman I would be scratching my head on all the D-commits and transfers I am seeing. No good way to spin it kids. That shows instability to future recruits.
Listed above are some of the reasons why things are changing. Notice last years records are not mentioned. These are trends that don't stop overnight. If DickRod dosen't work out. His replacement will have bare shelves with all of the Smurf's in corn and black. Take your head out of the sand and look at what is realy happening.
That's the argument for coach D failing is pro sets and hard nosed defence?
DickRod is his name (Richard) and some of his current and transfered players think it's a good fit.
in front of someones points is kind of funny to me. Really though? Some of his current players think it's a good fit? I bet the kids who committed due to "family atmosphere" disagree with that statement. And would you really except all 85 (not including walk-on) players to like their coach at every University? I'm willing to bet there are State players who think Dantonio is a dick too.
Bo's kids loved him. Even if they had issues while they were in his program they stayed because they knew all he wanted was to win and he did. Then they loved him after they left the program and looked back at the acomplishments.
I really am not trying to upset people. I am just saying that what is happenig is real. The trends are showing what is happening.
OSU title was due in part to coach D. I have read comments on some OSU boards "they should have kept coach D". He was the main recruiter for the tittle team. And built the D and had the game plan that beat Miami.
Peak not close.
Last year OSU and PSU hammered us.
Why? we were dominated on both sides of the ball in the trenches. That is somthing that takes recruits and coaching to fix. The last to seasons the Spartans were not as good as the records. They were coached up. This is why we are so excited. To see what he can do with top tallent.
that the attrition suffered by RichRod is nowhere near that of when Bo became the coach right? You do realize this? There is a reason Bo came up with "Those Who Stay"...it's because there was a massive exodus of kids from the program. But of course, you don't know this.
Bo was a good coach though. What i do know he NEVER went 3-9. I think you know this. Are the players buying what Rich is selling? So far the lack of tallent in this years recruiting class dosen't show that they are.
Coach D took a spread offence and put the same players in a pro style and went to a bowl the first year. And has ben recruiting HIS players since. That is good coaching.
Enjoy your fall, we are.
You will remain a speed bump.
are "fall" of one year. Do you really expect RichRod to stop being the coach he was before Michigan? It's not like he didn't have rough years to begin at other stops too...but spin it, Sparty.
For Dantonio's first season in 2007, he did alter the offense from Smith's more wide-open attack to a more conservative scheme. His QB was Brian Hoyer, a junior with 13 games as a starter under his belt in '05 and '06, setting a school-record for passing attempts in a game in '06. On the offensive line, MSU had 7 starters with a combined 46 starts from the '06 season returning for 2007.
In 2008, Michigan had a combined total of 16 career starts returning on the OL, which was 118th in the country. Michigan had two QBs with a combined total of zero returning starts. And all of these players were learning a radically new offensive system.
Back in 1954, there was a new coach taking the helm of a program that had enjoyed unparalleled success in the previous three years, going 9-0, 9-0, and 9-1, winning two national championships in the process. You would have thought that the new coach could just step into the warm seat of a well-oiled machine and keep things going at a high level, but alas, that first season in 1954 was miserable for both the new coach and the fans, as the team stumbled to a 3-6 season. Who was this new coach, and what was the school?
Duffy Daugherty and MSU.
Yep, that first season sure indicated that Duffy couldn't get the job done. Hell, he even lost to UM in 1954, after the previous coach Biggie Munn had beaten UM like a drum for four straight seasons.
You are simply drinking from the "hate Rodriguez" propaganda cup. No paranoia here; I am talking about the only reports - ONLY - of players not liking RR and his staff are from a handful of kids who transferred, kids recruited by Lloyd, who expected that environment and who wanted to justify their decision.
RR is an extremely hard coach in that he demands excellence, has an insane S&C coach, and plays no favorites. That made him some transitory enemies. You think that means the locker room is seething with discontented players. You are wrong. One can read the consensus of incoming players and recruiting targets - it is the warmth and discipline and fairness of this staff that attracts them.
This is one of the reasons that the switch you are hoping for - from irrelevance to dominance - will not happen. You don't achieve anything worthwhile in life with wishful thinking. Until you recognize the skill of RR, you will fail. Such has been the lesson for us with Tressel, which is why we are transforming ourselves.
BO: "I came in and instituted an extremely rigorous summer training program–there had been none–and everyone told me it wouldn’t work, that people wouldn’t go for that in Ann Arbor. The team had a reputation for having good talent, but being soft. I did have some attrition, but the real football players stayed. I was harder on that first Michigan team–which included Dan Dierdorf–than I ever was on any other group, partly because I was so driven by my own ambition. I killed them. I ran them into the ground."
"I was prepared for some attrition when I became Michigan's coach. I can honestly say we did not lose a guy who really could have helped us. I didn't lose any sleep over anyone who quit that spring of 1969."
Its kind of interesting to contrast Bo in '69 with Bear Bryant and his "Junction Boys" from a decade (or more?) earlier.
Bear essentially admitted that he went too far (and I think that A&M team lost every game, but not sure). Bo, as I think the results (and the players that stayed) showed, went just far enough.
As a head coach Dantonio's record is:
2004 Cincinnati 7-5
2005 Cincinnati 4-7
2006 Cincinnati 7-5
2007 Michigan State 7-6
2008 Michigan State 9-4
I don't see this as proof of a great head coach. Maybe he will be one, maybe not. I do see him as a disingenuous person for several reasons.
I don't see how you can say "scUM" and "DickRod" in a post and then when you are 33 points in the hole go "jk guys I wasn't trying to upset anyone!". If you know anything about posting on this board, calling names and taking cheap shots are not they way to get your point heard. You go from trying to make a point and supporting your team to just being another annoying MSU troll.
is exactly why Brian implemented the new points system. You didn't come to argue a point. You came to troll. "scUM" Really? How freaking childish is that. Why don't I just call them MSUcks then? Because that is stupid! Also, you are making a mockery of the Izzo name.
I had good points talking about the current change in both programs. I saw more points in my article than all post combined.
Duffy and Bo are gone. Kids don't care about either of them, it is about the here and now. The same program that has the .872% did it by dominating the state in recruiting and ALSO recruiting nationaly. USC, Flordia Bama dominate in state recruiting and also go outside the state. You have to have a base to pull from and then brach out from there.
WTF do Duffy and Bo have to do with anything I wrote? I was't talking about in-state recruiting, I was talking about childish name calling. Nice that you try to distract from the point though.
On the second thought, Michigan does have a good base of in-state kids. You don't NEED in-state kids. That's where you start. RichRod has started off a nice base there with kids like Garnder, Gordon, Campbell, Martin, Cissoko, Khoury, ect. However, WHO CARES where the kids come from. Manningham, Hart, Henne, Anthony Carter, and many others are from...gasp...OUT OF STATE.
Never once have I sat through a game and said to myself, "hey, Manninghams winning touchdown against State in 2007 was freaking awesome, but if only he was from Michigan..."
hey Izzostupidummyhead you are comparing California and Floridas in-state recruiting to the state of michigan. go back and check the demographics and their population. i'll bet texas does pretty well for their in state recruiting as well.
"These are trends that don't stop overnight."
This is where you are wrong. It is opinion vs. opinion, of course, but Spartan football is what it is. Dantonio is vanilla. Michigan's season last year was as far as Bhutan from RR's intedned mode of play. Are you arguing that he can't duplicate past success with better players? That wouldn't be wise.
I very, very much look forward to chatting with you halfway through the season so that we can discuss how long these trends appear to be lasting.
As for losing the in-state recruiting battle, this has been going on for some time. Over a two year stretch, Lloyd Carr got 3 out of the top 20 out of Michigan. It is not a new trend. Michigan takes a select few in state, maybe misses out on a select few and goes national.
You are proof that the point system is highly effective at removing trolls.
Evidently, Brian was correct about adding this system.
and give your posts a quick read before you hit the button. Jeebus!
Seriously, I think both sides are overreacting a bit. MSU fans are overly giddy, finally seeing some real improvement on the field and in recruiting. SOME U-M fans seem a bit dismissive of Dantonio.
Still, progress isn't the same as turning the tide. Last year was MSU's first win over Michigan in a looong time. A Big 10 title remains elusive for MSU.
MSU winning over some guys in the state that Michigan would like to have is news because it didn't happen all that often in the past. But, again, that's not the same as the worm turning.
It simply means the competition is getting more interesting. Personally, I wouldn't mind the guaranteed domination over little brother we've enjoyed until recently, but nothing lasts forever.
I admit I was having some fun at the expense of MSU fans. I have a couple in the family and they, like you say, are insanely over-the-top in their belief that MSU is back and UM is circling the drain. So I busted their chops a little. I do believe, however, that a fully loaded RR is going to be something that the Dantoniosaur will be unable to handle on a regular basis.
Wow! Stephen R. Donaldson reference in an MGoblog diary. That has to be a first.
All hail, the white gold wielder, Thomas "The Unbeliever" Covenant.
It's not often I hear the name of an ancient news reporter from ABC mentioned here.
Great books. Might get me classified as a nerd, though.
It won't be just the "great books" references that get you classified as a nerd...hehehehe. You have earned it.
Fun post. Thanks for taking the time and firing up TBS (aka Closet Spartan).
That's a lot of hyperbolic adjectives to say "Rodriguez wins 4 of 5 against Dantonio" with no supporting argument other than "speed."
Congratulations, SEC fan.
What do you consider Velociraptor-like speed? Or "Holocene"? From the 2009 class, UM signed THREE guys who run a sub-4.50 40 yard dash: DRob, Jeron Stokes, and Teric Jones. So far from this class, Corny Jones, Drake, and DJ Williamson. I know a couple guys from the '08 class, like Shaw and Terrence Robinson were fast. Maybe Martavious Maximus Odomus as well.
So, like, where's all that SPEED anyway? Is it locked up deep inside some pretty meeehhh 40 times? Can only the Secrets of the Chocolate Milk unlock it?
I'm just axing to make sure that the bill of goods here is understood four years down the road.
I swear Sphinter, I thought you were getting beat on a little too much around here and then you post something like this!?
Once again, does anyone listen to Rich Rod? Anyone watch some WVU games? Florida or Utah w/ Urban?
SPEED DOES NOT SOLEY REFER TO A BUNCH OF "FAST GUYS".
It is the tempo of the game (hence the complex snap counts and conditioning that allows you to RUN to the line between plays).
It is recruiting faster (if often smaller) linemen that can quickly get to the next level (and RUN back to keep the tempo up).
It's about creating mismatches so even a marginally fast player is put in a position either offensively or defensively to make a play or create an opportunity for someone else.
and finally, yes it is also about recruiting and coaching the fastest (and most motivated and coachable) players for each position.
Team speed does not mean adding up each teams fake 40 times and seeing which one is lower, otherwise why bother playing at all?
I'm not saying the OP has made a fantastic argument, but some people around here don't seem to have a very firm grasp of the term SPEED in a RR spread football program.
For the record, I think MSU will improve and stay competitive for quite some time, but I believe M will beat them more often than not.
What he said! (Until that second from last paragraph.)
Until then, it's all pretty much just a pipe dream for UM fans to go to sleep with while their mommies read them bedtime stories about Charles Woodson and Fielding Yost.
". . . while their mommies read them bedtime stories about Charles Woodson and Fielding Yost."
I have to admit I think that's a pretty funny quote.
. . . but not quite worth a point, sorry.
But I do agree: funny. Hey, thanks for mentioning that you thought I was getting unfair treatment. But you know that going in, and if my worst nightmare in life is rabid Michigan Fans and the kids at the WLA, I'll be just fine and dandy (just ask dex, he's sifting through my garbage right now for evidence).
I am surprised the WLA boys didn't at least give you credit for your Lenin picture.
They are more busy avidly clicking the "down" arrow next to my posts. There just isn't time. And, they kicked me out of their Treefort.
But they kept my whoopee cushion. They really loved that thing.
Why are you here. We are all pathetic enough for spending so much time on a blog, but at least it is a Michigan blog. Are there no MSU blogs worthwhile?
PS: I actually mean this as a serious question. Not bashing you at all.
The fuckjobs that call me a sparty are a gaggle of pathetic retards who simply have no other reply when someone questions the Mighty Godriguez. I touch an exposed nerve; one that Rodriguez ecposed when he waltzed in, swinging his johnson, and destroyed the program.
Now, I hope there was a method to his madness. If he is challenging for the national title in 2011, if he takes UM bowling with an 8-4 record this year, I will be the first to congratulate him, and the first to come on here and say, "Wow, was I ever dumb for questioning the approach. I now believe in what Rodriguez is doing, because I have this thing called actual proof!
I AM optimistic he can do it, but two things: DO HE HAVE TIME??? DO HE HAVE TIME IF HE GOES shits the bed this year again?
Finally: I say you give Rodriguez FIVE years--because he is totally revamping everything, right down to remodeling my basement--the guy is something, let me tell ya--but if he poops out, what will UM do? That's why I want to see him ram it home this year and will be very, very disappointed if he goes sub-500, and the biggest reason is that because when he was hired, I, like everyone else, had a Major Boner, as well as an irrational man-crush on BARWIS.