I'm glad to see that my suspicion about the vocal minority regarding Hoke has been confirmed.
Coaching Climate RESULTS
As of 6:30pm, I have the results of the survey.
*Caveat: Last nighta t about 7:30 I fixed a typo, and it wiped out about the first 100 entries. Sorry!
Question 1: Please rate your opinion regarding Brady Hoke
Question 2: Please rate your opinion regarding Al Borges
Questions 3-9: How much of a negative influence have the following things had on this season?
Question 10: What should happen at the end of the season?
I mean, I'm pretty far into the "Hoke shares some blame for this" side of things, but fire the guy? That's crazy talk
I mean, I could maybe see Funk if they absolutely implode the rest of the year on the line. Even then you only do it if you have a guy you know can come in and make a positive difference from day 1. Otherwise you're just changing for the sake of change and that's not likely to turn out all that well.
Borges would have to go before Hoke did, I figure you have to give the guy one chance to change an assistant before you fire him, and firing Borges right now doesn't make a ton of sense. If you can get someone who you know can pull a Chad Morris and turn the offense around right away, sure, but those guys just don't grow on trees, and more often than not you take a huge risk hiring them.
So yeah, not advocating firing anyone. Just not entirely thrilled with the job the offensive coaches are doing and not overly optomistic that they become a whole lot better. It's too bad we didn't get Cam Cameron when Hoke first got here...didn't think I would ever wish for a Cam Cameron offense...(not a slight at Borges btw, just pointing out how fucking weird it is that Cam Cameron went to LSU and somehow turned them into an unstoppable offensive juggernaught when he's...well...Cam Cameron)
"Otherwise you're just changing for the sake of change and that's not likely to turn out all that well. "
But, it's worked so well with the OL changes.
The vocal minority should step out loud and strong. Hoke is not the man for the job. He's no better than Rodriguez. He has no concept of offense or defense. What can we do?
It would be interesting to do this survey again after the season is over to compare results.
Firing now would beinsane given the stakes. One week after the season - that is a different matter entirely.
He should do that and add a question asking whether Rodriguez should have been fired.
I'm disconcerted by how many people think the playcalling is very or extremely inluential for our offenses failures. I don't know how many times spacecoyote has to explain it. A poor offensive line is going to sink a lot of great playcalls and whatever you do to help cover for the line comes with a tradeoff elsewhere.
Agreed. It doesn't really matter what you call when the line doesn't block.
Space Coyote blah blah blah.
People don't like Borges, and basically anything that he does, they think is bad. Pretty sure Space Coyote (or even Vince Lombardi himself*) could explain it's not (necessarily) playcalling, and people would still say Al is doing a bad job at whatever Al is doing.
Also, you are assuming the people who responded actually read through the message boards.
* Note that Vince Lombardi, as it turns out, probably could have helped out Rich Rod's defense. Too bad we couldn't get him to help out back then.
The OL seemed able to block in 2010 and we lost games because Borges decided Denard should play under the center against Iowa and that we should try to beat MSU by throwing into a wind storm.
Is it possible that he isn't making the best use of his players? That he isn't taking into account their abilities in setting a game plan? That maybe he should have taken what was available against Penn State instead of running into the line 30 times for 28 yards?
It may be that he didn't have the tools to compete effectively against MSU this year. That doesn't mean he does the best he can with what's available.
If we're calling for coaches to be fired based on a handful of bad outings over three years, Mattison should be on the chopping block as well.
People love to cherry-pick the offense's bad games, but how about when we scored 85 points on Nebraska and Ohio in back-to-back weeks in 2011? When we dropped 28 on Clowney & Co last bowl? When we scored 41 on ND this year? Last year we set a school record for 3rd-down efficiency, and that was with a new QB half the year. If Borges was the bum people here keep making him out to be, we would not have won 25 games in just over 2.5 years.
I didn't call for firing any coach. I simply responded to a comment ("Pretty sure Space Coyote . . . could explain it's not (necessarily) playcalling, and people would still say Al is doing a bad job . . . .") suggesting that people are criticizing Borges without justification. I pointed to specific examples of bad game planning.
I didn't even get into other dumb decisions that might justify firing a coach. Moving DG to WR last year was risk preferring for 2012 and we paid that price when he wasn't ready when Denard got hurt and we really needed him at QB. But that choice was idiotic in the context of our need for a QB this year. Similarly, looking to this year and our obvious need for more experience on the OL Kalis should have played last year. The possible benefit of a potential 5th year when we have 9 other quality recruits there over two years pales against the actual need for experience on the OL this year.
On those two decisions Hoke bears ultimate responsibility but it would be death to the program to fire him. If Hoke is fired before the end of his contract "we are Notre Dame." Whether other coaches, especially Funk, should be fired can wait until the end of the season.
Thanks again for doing this...I think it's particularly interesting that many more people would fire just position coaches than would fire just Borges.
It's hard to try to figure out where the blame should be. Funk has a track record of coaching strong offensive lines, and Borges has run plenty of potent offenses. It's odd to have this much incompetence on the line, and to see it persist throughout the entire season.
I wonder how the result skew when weighted by MGoPoints? Probably badly - we'd have to use the log or some other weighting bucket to prevent the Old Ones from dominating the results.
My question is....how painful will it be to watch this team next year? I can't imagine OFFENSIVELY we are going to be much better. I'm dreading the next two years of "oline development". If these lines don't turn into something at least average...Hokess seat may be getting warmer.
It is likely that the offense will be worse next year, but it seems like all of our weaknesses will be better. The three first time starters on the interior line will all have at least a year of experience, and at least one of the tackles will have a year of experience as well. Hopefully something changes with the coaching of the linemen that helps with the performance. Coach Funk has been successful before, so maybe there is some other factor impacting this.
Assuming Gardner returns, I don't see why we have to assume the offense will be worse. I think we can assume that Gardner will continue to develop - he has played better from Minnesota on.
At WR we lose Gallon, but Funchess is a star and I think Chesson can develop into an excellent complement, along with Darboh (who was getting rave reviews before this season). Butt should develop into more of a receiving target as well.
At RB, Fitz will be gone but to be honest, he's not a superstar, and I think Green, with an offseason under his belt, can become the kind of back we expected. We'll have other options, like Smith, if he doesn't.
The OL does have to break in two new tackles, which obviously is a concern for pass protection, but it will help that we'll have a senior QB who will hopefully be improved at sensing the rush and stepping up in the pocket. The interior should be much improved and that should help the ground game, which in turn should make play-action more credible.
I'm following your thought process. They SHOULD be better on the interior next year. However, until I actually see some growth in the mental aspect of their game....I will continue to be skeptical. They have a few games left that will hopefully help. The fact that we can't usually get three yards on a run up the middle still bothers me. Bo and Lloyd used to do it 40 effing times a game. Everyone in their living room and in the stadium new it was coming and they did it anyway. Add two brand new lineman to the equation next year and I just having a hard time envisioning improvement in the run or pass game. Hope I'm wrong.
Well, we've got to assume they'll improve - even if we assume Funk is thoroughly mediocre for a college coach (which may not be true), he's still presumably good enough to get a group of guys who will have much better overall depth and experience to perform better.
The midseason OL switches may have hurt chemistry so far. It was a catch-22: the OL looked putrid against Akron/UConn and everyone wanted changes, but the changes may have set us back, at least for the time being. Hopefully we've now found our five best guys and they can start to gel.
Yeah, that was a word choice error on my part. "Likely" was the wrong way to express what I was trying to say. It is possible we'll be worse, but I think we could be solid. Gardner seems to have turned it around in recent weeks regarding his turnovers, and there will be more consistency across the line. Our strengths won't be nearly a strong, but our weaknesses won't be nearly as weak (hopefully).
I like the idea of doing it again @ end of season, or perhaps a few weeks after bowl game.
A fan at halftime of the Nebraska game
Do it again now (post-Neb), and I am convinced you will have vastly different results. Based upon the threads, it was a turning point for a LOT of people, myself included.
I appreciate the difficulties that Borges must be experiencing in coercing an offence of puissance from an assemblage of unfledged personnel better acquainted with tactics of sleight and gambit. Woe is he to captain such a ship!
LOL J/K FIRE BORGES
Comparing Michgan's defense's progression under Rodriguez to the offense's progression under Hoke (numbers are from www.teamrankings.com and include yesterday's game against Nebraska)
Michigan - Total Offense
2010 - 485.8 yards per game (8th)
2011 - 404.7 ypg (39th)
2012 - 383.1 ypg (73rd)
2013 - 385.9 ypg (81st)
The above trend is ominous with 2 away games and Ohio State left. I would guess that the current ranking of 81st now is going to approach triple digits.
Let's compare this to the progression of the defense under Rodriguez, with Carr's last year as a starting point:
Michigan - Total Defense
2007 - 331.4 yards per game (18th)
Rodriguez - Shafer
2008 - 366.9 ypg (63rd)
Rodriquez - Robinson
2009 - 409.5 ypg (90th)
2010 - 454.6 ypg (108th)
Unfortunately, pretty similar progression.
In this game, points are what decides games.
Michigan - Scoring Offense
2010 - 32.0 points per game (25th)
2011 - 33.3 ppg (23rd)
2012 - 29.8 ppg (54th)
2013 - 35.1 ppg (26th)
This is significantly different from the total offense rankings so there is Barring a total collapse the last 3 games, Michigan should still be scoring over 30 points per game, so... But with what we all saw the last 2 games, and given the 3 games left on the schedule, I am not so sure now.
Michigan - Scoring Defense
2007 - 20.3 points per game (17th)
Rodriguez - Shafer
2008 - 28.9 ppg (77th)
Rodriquez - Robinson
2009 - 29.5 ppg (83rd)
2010 - 35.1 ppg (104th)
Pretty much parallels the defense's yardage per game trend. Much, much worse than the Borges flip side.
The numbers and performance on the field are clearly a concern. Given how likely the season is going to play out, Hoke is going to have a tough decision to make.
One alternative.........In the face of incredible private and public criticism, Borges cuts a deal to resign with a nice walkaway financial package.
Maybe Funk too.