Big Ten Expansion and What it Means for Notre Dame and the Big East

I think the Big East should have that discussion with ND, but they should do it NOW, before losing a school to the Big Ten. The Big East has already gutted Conference USA once, and lost a lot of their prestige in the process. Replacing one of their big name schools like Pitt or Syracuse would probably lead to them losing their status as a BCS conference, or possibly collapsing completely causing a flurry of musical chairs. The Big 12 doesn't have this issue, since they have an obvious replacement available in TCU.

If I were the commissioner of the Big East, I would tell Notre Dame right now that they need to join up or get out, not because I expected them to join, but because it would force them to the Big Ten.

Notre Dame likes the fact that they play games all over the country. What if they said "screw you" to the Big Ten, bailed from the Big East, and joined the Pac-10? Is that even remotely a possibility? Seems like it to me. If we can go after Texas and either Texas Tech or Missouri, I don't see why geographically Notre Dame couldn't join the Pac-10. Granted Eastern/Central time to Pacific is a bigger deal (the NFL will tell you teams going west to east to play noon games do poorly, although many Pac-10 games are later in day, so maybe a moot point). I'm just thinking out loud here. I would think money is also a big issue, and with the Big10 network, ND would have to either remain independent or join us, otherwise there is no monetary gain (unless the SEC is an option, and in that case, I'll throw my computer out the window)...

I find it hard to see ND joining any conference in the near future simply because they pride themselves on being a national brand. If they were to join a conference, they would most likely limit themselves to being a regional plebeian (psh). As it is, they make more than enough money being an independent and being the "anomaly" of college football.

It will probably go more like this:
ND joins the big east (fully) because the bigten sucks for a the following Reasons:....
Both Rutgers and Pitt see ND joining as reason to stay in the bigeast themselves, as do the rest of the teams
PSU gets mad that they don't get anyone get to add anyone in their area to play so they defect to the BigEast. JoePa retires in disgust
BigEast goes on to rule the college football world

I do not know how you could disagree =)

it makes clear that this sh*t could seriously backfire on the B10. Every analysis I have read to now assumed the B10 was in the driver's seat.

P.S. Anybody notice how even the glimmer of a hope from St. John's wakes up all of NYC? That's how I remember it in the city; living in Bkly, Manhattan, and NJ for half of my life, I never got much sense of a love for Syracuse. Awareness, yes. Proximity.

And I don't say that to diss Syracuse; in a way the diary makes Syracuse look more attractive. It makes 14 teams seem like a bigger bite out of the rest of the world for the B10, too--as it pushes toward an image of dominance. But the 'Syracuse gets you NYC' argument always seemed a bit strained to me.

And also who wants to go to New Jersey for road games, that would be terrible.

I would rather see Pitt, Mizzou, or Iowa State for the natural geographical rivalries. Set up a conference challenge like the basketball program, SEC or BIG 12. Then all BIG 10 schools drop Notre Dame from the schedule. I think we would have more to gain nationally and financially from the challenge. Television interest would be huge for both conferences. As for ND let them eat cake.

I would rather see Pitt, Mizzou, or Iowa State for the natural geographical rivalries. Set up a conference challenge like the basketball program, SEC or BIG 12. Then all BIG 10 schools drop Notre Dame from the schedule. I think we would have more to gain nationally and financially from the challenge. Television interest would be huge for both conferences. As for ND let them eat cake.

They seem pretty happy without one. As an MSU fan, I certainly don't support some Big 10 ND ban. We've got a historical sorta friendly rivalry with them. (Old timers say ND helped legitimize what was then MAC and MSC football and that we probably don't get into the Big 10 without that) Plus, they're a win we can get and often get more credit for then is deserved.

As for expansion, I've been reading this guy's stuff on it.

http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/

He makes a lot of sensible points. The main summary is don't think like a fan, think like a university president, about whether the new member would burnish the conference's rep, academically and athletically. Or at least not hurt it in either area. One interesting thing that came up in his comment section was the loud opinion from some ND fans that they would be very unhappy with academic affliation with 11 universities that do non-Pope-approved research. I dunno how widespread conservative Catholicism is within the ND fanbase, but I bet it's a factor among enough influential alums that would be a factor they'd have to consider.

As for the Big East having leverage over ND, I don't see it. My impression is that our mutual friend doesn't care enough about basketball to be strong armed by the Big East. There are also so many basketball conferences that they could absolutely find a home.

MY personal dream would be for it to be a school in Ohio, like Cincinnati, so Ohio State could get a taste of what we get up here having to jockey for local recruits with another in-state Big 10 school. Just imagine if we didn't have Sparty, all those football and bball players came to UM? Quite sick. Then again, we recruit Ohio a lot and perhaps another Ohio Big 10 school wouldn't help with that... Who knows... Either way, who really cares. We already play ND every year, whether or not they join the Big 10.

Notre Dame is in a funny position. The only conference it really makes sense for them to join is the Big Ten. But, I think the scenarios in which they would be forced into a conference would be if the Big Ten chose someone else, which would have the domino effect on the Pac-10, Big XII, and several other conferences.

The other scenario people could be referring to is if the NCAA or BCS tells ND to join a conference or lose BCS money. In that case, I bet they'll be banging on the Big Ten's doors to get in so they don't have to join the Big East in football. ND doesn't want to play West Virginia, Cincinnati, and South Florida.

When it comes to ND joining ANY conference, there is one big hurdle that needs to be overcome.

ND fans think ND is "special" -- at least more than other schools. The reality is that they are not. (Not any more than Michigan, USC, Alabama, other tradition rich schools, etc.) This matters because their donors, students, etc. are a bigger percent of their income because they are private.

Reality doesn't meet perception and it is hard to act rationally when that is the case (and all these scenarios are based on rational thinking).

It's a tough pill to swallow and until they swallow it, they'll keep spitting out talk of joining a conference.

NY Times had an article on this. (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/10/sports/ncaafootball/10irish.html?ref=s...)

Key graf: "Swarbrick said that the decision to look at alternatives, the most likely of which would be joining the Big Ten Conference, stemmed from external factors. He said that the Southeastern Conference and the Big Ten had separated themselves from the other four major conferences — the Pacific-10, Big 12, Big East and Atlantic Coast Conference — because of their lucrative television agreements."

My take is that up to this point, the "ND isn't in the picture and we're looking at Pitt, Missouri, etc" line has all been a bluff: In all categories -- revenue generating potential, athletic department quality, academic standing, geography -- ND waxes the rest under consideration.

Looking at other schools was a way to try to get ND to think about whether it really wanted to go it alone/with the Big East. With network TV on the decline, and the internet making more teams viable at a national level (as opposed to ND being hte only one to pull that off), ND may realize its time to seek safety in numbers.

But if they call the Big Ten's bluff, we may get stuck with Rutgers.

needs Rutgers leaving to talk to Notre Dame.

I usually am not a fan of Colin Cowherd, but he made a rather prescient statement concerning why ND has been so adverse to conference affiliation: "ND has a mirror problem. They look in the mirror and they see Florida or OSU; everyone else looks in the mirror and sees Purdue with a bigger budget." That's the problem with ND - they have 1 NC in the past 30 years, and haven't been competitive in over almost 2 decades. Plus, the whole "we have a deal with NBC" doesn't mean as much when you have the SEC and Big 10 contracts, 4 ESPN channels, plus all the regional broadcasts and satellite deals. Heck, Rutgers is on TV 4-5 times a year, so the exposure advantage ND enjoyed with NBC years ago just isn't as pronounced anymore. As for the financial incentives, my guess is that ND joining the Big 10 would increase Big 10 channel revenue, which would partially funnel back to ND.

At this point, the only roadblock in ND joining the Big 10 is an image issue, and it is one that will hopefully be overcome sooner rather than later.

The thing to remember is that the Big 10 is on the record that expansion might include more than one team. Here's how the dominoes might fall: Big Ten woos Pitt away from the Big East. That knocks the BE down a couple of pegs as a basketball conference, tips the balance in ND's eyes towards leaving. Now the BE turns around and offers spots to ND and a third team. (Mizzou would be my choice) and we have a 14 team league.

Its a maybe for ND because they seriously don't want to but might have to. and the big east maybe a good conference but this could make ND a better team (which scares me) and it would be a great opportunity for them to recruit better players too. If they do join the big ten would take them in a snap because its not long distance and will have great competition if they do join.

A while back, I would have said bringing ND into the B10 would have been a great thing. It would probably raise the profile of the conference, in that USC would continue to play the B10 in the non-conference schedule. And ND obviously has a legendary program, and not just in its own, collective mind.

But if ND were a Hollywood starlet, the constant, "tell-me-again-how-pretty-i-am" attitude would make me want to bitch-slap her. Its as though being in a conference - any conference - is beneath the institution, and particularly the B10. We're Michigan; we know from exceptionalism. But, I don't hear anyone saying that we'd do better apart from the B10, or that we've had to mingle with the unwashed in order to be a part of it.

Any place that can smell the decaying sewage wafting in from Gary, Indiana just doesn't seem that special to me. Time for ol' Jim Delaney to tell that bunch of prima donnas to shit or get off the pot.