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BB: MSU, OSU show impact of new arena
I saw reference to DB mentioning that the BB team needs new facilities. It has been a thought rattling in my empty head for years -- it seemed to me that both MSU and OSU became much more competitive after Breslin and Value City opened. Crisler is an anvil, sinking the ability of either or men's or women's BB teams to get competitive, because we play in a total dump.
Not that you have to have a good facility to have a good BB team. Howevah -- looking at our competitors in the conference, it seems logical to me that, if we want to compete annually with MSU and OSU and IU and UI etc., we can't be in a gym that looks like a parking garage, at night, in the worst part of town (or, in Columbus), compared to the fancy, bright gyms.
Statistics bear me out....
Breslin Center opened in 1989. Here are the Men's BB team records (ovearll / Big Ten), before and after Breslin opened:
MSU Men's BB
1982-83 17-13 / 9-9
1983-84 16-12 / 9-9
1984-85 19-10 / 10-8
1985-86 23-8 / 12-6
1986-87 11-17 / 6-12
1987-88 10-18 / 5-13
1988-89 18-15 / 6-12
1989-90 28-6 / 15-3
1990-91 19-11 / 11-7
1991-92 22-8 / 11-7
1992-93 15-13 / 7-11
1993-94 20-12 / 10-8
1994-95 22-6 / 14-4
Seems to me, that's a stastical bump turning on the year Breslin opened. It's a pretty good control too, because Jud was the coach of all of those teams. Izzo took over sometime after 1994-95 season.
I looked at the women's team too, but except for a very short bump a couple years after Breslin opened, not quite the same trend:
MSU Women's BB
1982-83 11-16 / 7-11
1983-84 18-10 / 10-8
1984-85 11-16 / 4-14
1985-86 15-12 / 9-9
1986-87 16-12 / 8-10
1987-88 16-12 / 12-6
1988-89 15-13 / 9-9
1989-90 11-17 / 7-11
1990-91 21-8 / 13-5
1991-92 14-14 / 8-10
1992-93 10-17 / 6-12
1993-94 12-15 / 7-11
1994-95 16-12 / 8-8
Value City Arena opened in the 1997-1998 season. There is a DEFINITE bump in the record, but there is another factor affecting it too:
OSU Men's BB
1992-93 15-13 / 8-10
1993-94 13-16 / 6-12
1994-95 6-22 / 2-16
1995-96 10-17 / 3-15
1996-97 10-17 / 5-13
1997-98 8-22 / 1-15
1998-99 27-9 / 11-4
1999-00 22-7 / 13-3
2000-01 20-11 / 11-6
2001-02 24-8 / 12-5
2002-03 17-15 / 7-9
2003-04 14-16 / 6-10
That is unquestionably a big jump in record when moving to the new arena. But there is another factor too -- Randy Ayers coached those before-VCA teams, and Jim O'Brien coached the first seven teams in VCA. (Officially, OSU lost all of those games, but you know, C-Web -- HATE HIM -- wasn't there to not call a timeout we wouldn't have had if we were in that game, which officially we weren't in.)
The OSU women's hoop's team didn't quite get exactly the same bump immediately:
OSU Women's BB
1992-93 28-4 / 16-2
1993-94 14-14 / 7-11
1994-95 17-13 / 7-9
1995-96 21-13 / 8-8
1996-97 12-16 / 3-13
1997-98 15-12 / 7-9
1998-99 17-12 / 9-7
1999-00 13-15 / 5-11
2000-01 22-11 / 5-11
2001-02 18-11 / 6-10
2002-03 14-15 / 8-8
2003-04 22-10 / 10-6
2004-05 21-10 / 11-5
2005-06 30-5 / 14-2
The OSU hockey team got a MAJOR bump in performance by moving to VCA. They made the NCAA for the first time in the season they moved into VCA (1997-98). They have been to the NCAA several times since then. I think you could legitimately argue, OSU hockey got on the map only by moving into VCA. (Not to say Yost is hurting UM, cuz, obviously, it isn't.)
Upshot for UM
VCA cost like, what, $255M? UM just spent that on the upgraded football digs, I don't think DB is thinking of plowing another quarter-billion into a new basketball facility.
HOWEVER... we just have to face facts here, as long as we play in a dump, we can't really expect to get the best recruits -- whomever is the coach. Getting the new digs clearly seems to have an impact on getting in good recruits, as MSU's and OSU's experiences show.
If the U won't replace Crisler (or so significantly upgrade it that it LOOKS brand new), I don't think we can realistically expect to build a national contender on the men's side, given the teams against whom we recruit. It doesn't appear that a new arena is a guarantee for success on the women's team, however.
If UM is 29-2, ranked #1, and wins The Dance while having played in the Domino's Arena Brought To You By M Den Fueled By Zingerman's Dressed By Mo's Order Your Pizza Only At Thano's .... I'm good with that.
what about 30-1 with PNC/Dominos brought to you by M Den fueled by Monster Energy that includes a basketball court that looks like oregon's with a big Maize and Blue Monster logo center court?
well now you're just being ridiculous.
I think it will be years before they do anything to Crisler. I hope the practice facility help some.
Don't forget the Kohl Center up in Wisconsin
Opened during 97-98 season, Wisconsin was 12-19
Next year, 22-10 and then after that, 22-14 with an appearance in the Final Four
Not to mention the success they've had with Bo Ryan too.
I totally agree that Crisler either needs to go or needs at least $75 million invested
But what about Penn State? They have a pretty new arena. Hasn't done them much good. Coaching is by far the most important thing.
are more attracted to basketball facility and coaches than tradition. Tradition does not matter to them anymore. Crisler Arena is a dump and it doesn't help Michigan in recruiting especially the fact that they have no practice facility. With the new practice facility and hopefully a renovated Crisler Arena, the recruiting will pick up.
There is no atmosphere, no good student section, and apathy abounds with the crappy pre-season schedule. It ain't the arena. It's Izzo and Matta, and Bo Ryan in Wisky. Shiny new practice facility will help, but it is 100% more collegial and loud at Crisler than it is at the Value City Arena.
They also show the effect of having good coaching. You left out that MSU went 16-16 in Izzo's first season (1995-96). That year, the Breslin was half-empty most of the time, and teams like Indiana would take it over. Izzo built them into a powerhouse and now everyone praises Breslin's atmosphere.
OSU's opening of Value City Arena coincided with the hiring of Jim O'Brien, who's won everywhere he's been. He was succeeded by Thad Matta, who again, has won everywhere he's been.
Facilities have been an issue for us (more the lack of a practice facility than anything), but having Ellerbe and Amaker patrolling the sideline for 10 seasons didn't help, either. Interestingly, no one ever seemed to complain about our facilities until after the program collapsed under Ellerbe's watch.
Tom Izzo became a "good coach" because the Ed Martin mess gave him a vitrual ten year instate recruiting lock. All he had to do to any recruit considering Michigan was look at his parents and say "Fab Five scandal" or "dirty program," and the recruit would "magically" forget about Michigan.
Now that Michigan has a coach who is the head of the Ethics Committee, that particular style of negative recruiting won't work, and facilities are a lot more important. Michigan's upgrades should be enough to put them back on even footing with MSU in recruiting. The negative recruiting won't work anymore, and new facilities will take away the other successful form of negative recruiting.
Most of all, it will only take one big, five-star instate recruit to make it "cool" to go to Michigan again. Then, the floodgates will open.
Tater, I'm sorry - Izzo's a good coach. I don't like him any more than you do, but he's a good coach.
I kind of doubt that Izzo had to bring up the Fab 5 scandal when recruiting; the man is a very good coach and seems like a decent person. The reason UM cratered in basketball was because Ed Martin was allowed too close to the program, Fisher left the team and Ellerbe was given 2-3 years too long. By the time Amaker showed up, the sanctions had robbed the team of its credibility and Ellerbe has basically ceded recruiting in the state to MSU. Those were all self-inflicted wounds, not coaches going out and bad-mouthing a clean program.
Amaker was still able to put together a nice, relatively deep roster with Horton, Abrams, Sims, etc. They just could never win that one extra game they needed to get off the NCAA bubble. He had four pretty solid seasons out of six but the only time he got above 8-8 in the league was when we were still on probation (and that team started the season by losing six straight).
Ellerbe was given 2-3 years too long.
That's a polite way of saying that he never should have been hired. He was here four years, although it felt like 40.
I believe that there are already some pretty extensive plans for the renovation of Crisler. Once the new practice facility opens, DB will probably announce that Crisler will be undergoing a significant re-design. I am looking for some sort of exterior midifications to bring the overall design scheme in line with Yost, new football stadium, etc.
Crisler needs to be remodeled bad. I know if i was a recruit i would think, damn, this is where they play? Even painting the walls white on the concourse area (like the breslin) I think would help somewhat. It just seems so dark dark and dingy....
Outside is bad looking, inside is bad looking. It would be really nice if Michigan Stadium, Yost, and Crisler all had a brick look to them.
So explain the success of Duke, Indiana (prior to firing Knight and replacing knights successor with Sampson the Stupid), Kansas, and Kentucky in older facilities? syracuse plays in a terrible dome. There are a lot of examples of teams being successful in lousy arenas. Michigan has had a long line of poor coaches, plain and simple.
Crisler being the cause of the problem is an excuse. I will accept that the lack of a dedicated practice facility has been an issue as it limits the effectiveness of the time the players spend. And as that is the facility where the players will spend the most time, it will probably have more of an affect on recruiting than building a new arena.
Michigan has had a long line of poor coaches, plain and simple.
Good post--except I would have taken the "has" out of the sentence above.
OSU really named their basketball arena that? I ... wow. What a state. Of all the companies to sell naming rights to.