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The 2010 Myth

By Ron Utah — September 24th, 2012 at 2:27 PM — 17 comments
Filed under:
  • 2010 offense
  • Brady Hoke
  • Denard Robinson
  • denard robinson al borges fusion cuisine
  • football
  • Gorgeous Al Borges
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  • Manball
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There is a myth that lives on this board that Denard was a better passer in 2010.  This post is not meant to excuse Al Borges' playcalling, or bash Rich Rod, or elevate Lloyd Carr's run-run-run-punt strategy.  It's just a look at the falsity that Denard was a better passer in 2010.

The unfortunate, painful truth that this diary reveals is that our passing offense is not much better than it was in 2010, when it wasn't very good at all (when it mattered).

Let's throw out the garbage games and focus on Michigan's games against opponents that had respectable defenses in 2010:

  • Ohio (3rd in total yds)
  • Iowa (16th in total yds)
  • Wisconsin (23rd in total yds)
  • Michigan State (32nd in total yds)

You might be wondering, "Where is Notre Dame and Penn State on that list?"  Well, I'm glad you asked.  They were 46th and 48th...behind powerhouses like San Diego State, Hawaii, and ILLINOIS!!! (the team we scored 67 points against).  So they sucked.  But we still lost to Penn State.  Even though they sucked.  Because our defense was, well, worser.

I don't need to lay out the stats from the ohio game.  They trounced us, and Denard got pulled in favor of Forcier at the end of the game.  We couldn't move the ball at all, and scored only 7 points.

Let's move on to Iowa...

Their defense was ranked 16th in 2010, and yet we were able to score 28 points.  This is actually the best comparable for this weekend's Notre Dame game, since ND is ranked 17th in total defense right now.  Yes, we lost the game by a score of 28-38, and those four TDs sure do look good...but only because you either don't remember what happened or judge a book (or score) by it's cover (or...score).  Here are some relevant stats:

  • Denard 13/18, 98 yds, 1 TD, 1 INT
  • Forcier 17/26, 239, 1 TD, 2 INT

But here's the most important stat: We only scored 7 points when Denard was on the field.  Denard get could get yards (108 on 18 carries) but not points.  Iowa was stacking the box, and all the offense could muster was a TD on a drive when Denard threw three passes: one was incomplete, one was for a 6 yd. loss, and the last was a screen to Smith for an 8 yd. TD.  Denard got hurt in the 3rd quarter and in came Forcier.  

It was Forcier that brought the team back in that game, and Forcier that sealed our fate with his INTs.  It's worth noting that completing passes underneath when you're behind by  21 points is MUCH easier.  In fact, that leads to lots of confusion about the effectiveness of Denard's passing and the 2010 offense in general: we got loads of "soft" yards because we were hopelessly behind and our opponents played softer coverages and lighter fronts.

Wisconsin has a similar storyline, except that Denard played much more that game.  We scored exactly ZERO points in the first half (although we did miss a 30 yd. field goal).  With a 24 point lead, Wisconsin converted to prevent defense, and allowed us back in the game.  Denard stayed in this time, and racked up a nice, meaningless statline: 16/25 for 239 yds, 2 TDs, and, of course, 1 INT.  The important part: Denard was 4/9 for 22 yds passing in the first half.  When Wisconsin was playing their base defense, Denard couldn't pass.  Only the gooey butter cake version of Wiscy's D allowed DR some meaningless passing yardage.  Further proof of this came in the fourth quarter, when we had come back to make it a 21-31 game.  Denard couldn't move the ball anymore.

The final example is, perhaps, the most damning.  Michigan State had a good-but-not-great defense in 2010.  Their success was largely a result of their schedule and some good defensive coaching.  They lost badly to Iowa (and 'Bama), snuck by a pretty lousy ND team in overtime, and narrowly edged out a VERY average Penn State team.  Their only quality win was against Wisconsin, and that game was played in East Lansing.  Despite their easy schedule, the Spartan defense was still only ranked 32nd in total yds.  Michigan actually had the lead twice in this game, up 3-0 in the first quarter and 10-7 in the second. Denard was 6/8 for 51 yds in the first quarter, but threw an INT in the endzone.  In the second quarter, Denard shined again.  He was 4/6 for 81 yds and a TD.  At the half, Michigan was down 10-17.

The second half was a very, very different story.  Denard was 7/15 for 82yds and 2 INTs.  The same guy we saw against ND.  Only against a defense that wasn't nearly as good.  And we were at home.  The 4th quarter TD was only scored after MSU had rung-up a 21 point lead.

So here's the bottom line: Denard has never been a good passer, or even an average passer.  And against good defenses, we won't win until he's able to throw the ball somewhat effectively.  Maybe that's why Borges keeps making him throw, especially before the B1G season starts.

So what's the difference between now and 2010?  The defense.  Because our Greg defense is not our GERG defense, we are in every game, and teams don't stop stacking the box against Denard.  They don't stop blitzing.  They don't play soft coverage.  So Denard never gets to ring-up his stats, and looks even worse.

I certainly won't excuse Borges' playcalling on Saturday--it needed to be better.  But the fact is that our only quality wins have come when Denard has been able to make plays in the passing game (or Hemingway was able to bail out Denard) and I expect it stay that way.  If Denard can't pass, we're screwed, and 4 or 5 losses is our best case scenario.

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September 24th, 2012 at 2:39 PM | i was wondering "Where are (Score:2 Normal)
ish
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 7692

i was wondering "Where are Notre Dame and Penn State on that list?"

grammar aside, it is helpful to remember that our 2010 offense really only produced against poor defenses.

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September 24th, 2012 at 8:48 PM | I think you are leaving out the running back... (Score:1)
squashman
squashman's picture
Joined: 11/23/2009
MGoPoints: 99

Denard will be a better passer once/if we can make fitz a viable running threat again.

The SQUASHman

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September 24th, 2012 at 2:42 PM | I stopped reading after "we (Score:-1 Normal)
coastal blue
Joined: 11/13/2010
MGoPoints: 1791

I stopped reading after "we couldn't move the ball at all" against OSU. 

You clearly didn't watch the game, so I'm doubting the rest of your post was anything close to factual. 

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September 24th, 2012 at 3:18 PM | Michigan's drives against OSU (Score:3 Normal)
Brhino
Joined: 09/08/2009
MGoPoints: 1367

Michigan's drives against OSU in 2010:

  • Denard Starts
  • 12 plays, 45 yards: turnover on downs after failing to pick up 4th and 8 from the OSU 28 (aka "we can't kick a filed goal for shit") [score 0-0]
  • 10 plays, 56 yards: Denard fumbles on the OSU 9 yard line [score 0-0... OSU FG Next]
  • 3 plays, -5 yards: 3 'n' out, with bonus 18-yard punt! [OSU 3 UM 0, OSU short-field TD drive Next]
  • 11 plays, 85 yards: touchdown [briefly OSU 10 UM 7, then OSU runs back the kickoff for a touchdown]
  • 6 plays, 20 yards: turnover on downs after failing to pick up 4th and 8 from the OSU 37 (good place to go for it unless you have a great kicker or you're a puntasaurus) [OSU 17 UM 7, OSU touchdown drive next]
  • Forcier replaces Denard
  • 4 plays, 25 yards: Vincent Smith fumble [OSU 24, UM 7]
  • 1 play: Forcier interception [will become OSU 31, UM 7 following 70-yard OSU drive]
  • Denard back in
  • 6 plays, 18 yards: one first down, then punt
  • 3 plays, 2 yards: 3 'n' out [OSU field goals betwixt these drives pushes score to OSU 37 UM 7]
  • Forcier back in
  • 3 plays, 6 yards: three 'n' out
  • 11 plays, 68 yards: failed 4th-and-goal from the eight conversion, because that's what you do when you're down by 30
  • 4 plays, -1 yards: four 'n' out

We had 351 yards of total offense, which is not terrible.  We just couldn't put it in the endzone for a variety of reasons - turnovers, lack of a field goal kicker, and being down by so much that a chip shot field goal wouldn't have mattered.

I feel like if we had 2010's defense playing last weekend against Notre Dame the results would have been pretty similar.

 

 

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September 24th, 2012 at 3:37 PM | LOLZ (Score:5 Normal)
Ron Utah
Joined: 02/28/2012
MGoPoints: 494

I did watch the game.  We had two good opening drives that might have netted field goals if we had a competent kicker.  Then we had the TD drive.  That was it.  After that, we got nowhere until the game was far, far, far out of reach.

And Denard's passing in that game? 8/18 for 87 yds.

So there you go.

EDIT: After going back and actually checking the drive chart, I realized Denard actually fumbled on the second good drive.  So yeah, no points there.

Thank you, Coach Hoke, for bringing Michigan back.

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September 24th, 2012 at 3:41 PM | IIRC (Score:2 Normal)
BiSB
BiSB's picture
Joined: 08/15/2009
MGoPoints: 27894

I believe Michigan outgained OSU in the first half, but Denard's hand asploded and that was that.

It doesn't necessarily matter in the long run (much like 2010 really doesn't matter that much in 2012), but we really did move the ball pretty well with Denard in the game.

They no longer call me Bisbiño

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September 24th, 2012 at 5:33 PM | So you're saying that with (Score:1 Normal)
coastal blue
Joined: 11/13/2010
MGoPoints: 1791

So you're saying that with competent special teams we would have had 13 first half points against the #3 overall defense in the country, despite having a first year starter, no running back and Roy Roundtree dropping a handful of passes?

That seems a little better than "didn't move the ball at all" or whatever you said, but whatever. Seems you're making up your own myths. 

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September 24th, 2012 at 2:44 PM | There are way too many (Score:2)
corundum
corundum's picture
Joined: 05/10/2012
MGoPoints: 670

There are way too many variables that have impacted Denard since then to accurately say whether or not he is a worse/better passer since 2010 (coaching change, change in offensive scheme, change in surrounding personnel, etc). And best case scenario of 4-5 losses if he has regressed? Have you seen the other Big Ten teams play this year?

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September 24th, 2012 at 2:44 PM | (No subject) (Score:2 Normal)
BiSB
BiSB's picture
Joined: 08/15/2009
MGoPoints: 27894

They no longer call me Bisbiño

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September 24th, 2012 at 4:01 PM | This this this, (Score:-1 Flamebait)
UofM-StL
Joined: 11/21/2011
MGoPoints: 234

A thousand times this!

Can we institute the "snowflake" rule on Denard passing 2010 vs. 2012?

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September 24th, 2012 at 5:41 PM | Unfortunately, the (Score:2 Normal)
profitgoblue
Joined: 09/01/2009
MGoPoints: 19415

Unfortunately, the legislative history shows that the moderative intent was to have the Snowflake Rule apply to opinions, not statements using facts and data. Though this thread was lacking a bit, it does include data to support opinion.  So, in this moderator's opinion, the Snowflake Rule would not be applicable here.

Disgruntled former moderator.  I got a lot of problems with you people!

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September 24th, 2012 at 2:47 PM | It seems like a jump to look (Score:3 Normal)
akim
Joined: 12/30/2010
MGoPoints: 84

It seems like a jump to look at 2010 and say "So here's the bottom line: Denard has never been a good passer, or even an average passer.  "

He seemed like he was a good passer last year, especially at the end of the year, but then again maybe Nebraska and Ohio State didn't have good defenses?  I don't have the answer to that off hand.

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September 24th, 2012 at 3:40 PM | Consistency (Score:1)
Ron Utah
Joined: 02/28/2012
MGoPoints: 494

You're right; that comment was a bit overboard.  What I should have said is that Denard has never demonstrated consistent ability as a passer.  But FYI, Ohio was 27th, Nebraska 41st.  Neither were as good as Wiscy or Sparty.  Penn State was actually the best.

Thank you, Coach Hoke, for bringing Michigan back.

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September 24th, 2012 at 5:39 PM | My question is when has (Score:2 Normal)
profitgoblue
Joined: 09/01/2009
MGoPoints: 19415

My question is when has anyone ever thought of Denard as an outstanding (or even above-average) passer??  Brian consistently mentions his desire to see Denard's UFR results correlate to him being an improved passer.  But we've always know he won't be more than average at best.  The fact is that he's the most electric runner in college football and to have him throw the ball more than he runs is a disservice to him, whether it be 2009, 2010, 2011, or 2012.  Granted, throwing the ball is necessary to open the run, but why force him to make tough downfield reads and throws?  Open up the whole field, sideline to sideline, on a short passing game.  Stretch the defense and open up the middle.  Those are just my layman's thoughts (I know, I know, SNOWFLAKE!).

Disgruntled former moderator.  I got a lot of problems with you people!

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September 24th, 2012 at 10:52 PM | OP, you just used total (Score:-1 Flamebait)
ikestoys
ikestoys's picture
Joined: 09/26/2009
MGoPoints: 747

OP, you just used total passing yards, which should essentially disqualify you from ever talking about statistics again. Anyways, there is a data set that measures play by play success accounting for SoS, down and distance, impact on the game and more. We don't have to write 1000 words that don't actually say anything.

This is S&P. S&P measures offensive efficiency. They also break it down into rushing and passing. Michigan was  #5 in the overall metric, and only behind Auburn in rushing efficiency. They were #5 passing and the 13th most efficient team in passing downs. Shocker, the passing offense worked pretty well when wide receivers were routinely left uncovered due to defenders freaking out about the run game.

Before you get into 'BUT THAT WAS TATE'! Forcier's YPA was a full yard lower and he had a much higher interception rate. Those numbers above are Denard's.

I think the problem you're having is that you don't quite understand the position of the people who are annoyed that the passing game isn't as effective as it was in 2010. We don't think Denard 2010 is Henne. We think that, in the right scheme, Denard has the ability to be amazingly effective. Yet we simply haven't done that since Borges has become coordinator.

Personally, I don't think this is Borges' fault, he is who we think he is and etc. Yet it's frustrating to watch an opportunity like Denard's senior year not be fully taken advantage of.

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September 25th, 2012 at 10:15 AM | "Myth?" (Score:1)
Tater
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Joined: 08/13/2008
MGoPoints: 10370

It sounds like we are already making up mythology for 2012.  Bama and ND have the best collections of athletes on defense that Michigan will face all year until they play in Columbus.

Borges does this for a living, and I'm sure he is planning on making a few adjustments during bye week.  This team can still go 11-2 or 10-3 and go to the Rose Bowl.   If they end up in Tampa with an 8-4 record, though, I could live with that. 

 

 

 

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September 25th, 2012 at 11:02 AM | I think that the real 2010 (Score:4 Normal)
Hannibal.
Hannibal.'s picture
Joined: 09/09/2008
MGoPoints: 2497

I think that the real 2010 myth is that Michigan's offense was only successful against turrible defenses.  Michigan actually played a pretty good schedule in 2010.  That was a strong year for the Big Ten and there were a lot of good defenses.  On top of that, UConn and ND weren't MAC quality, although they weren't great either. 

We "only" scored 31 points against Penn State, and we "only" scored 28 points against Iowa and Wisconsin.  And apparently, points that you score after halftime don't matter anymore, even if you score them in the 3rd quarter when the game isn't decided yet.  When did what you do in the first half become the only metric of how good your offense is?   The people who think that the 2010 offense wasn't prolific need to go back to the Carr years and look at some of the shitstains that Fred Jackson, Mike Debord, Stan Parrish, and Terry Malone put up over the years.  8 points total against Purdue in '95 and '96.  13 points against Northwestern in 1995, despite completely dominating the line of scrimmage.  Only 23 points scored against an abysmal NW team in 1997, and then 12 points scored the next year against Iowa and NW.  15 points against a terrible Minnesota team in 1998.  91 total yards against OSU in 2007. 

I think that RichRod sucked as our coach, but you know what never happened in the RichRod era?  A game without an offensive touchdown.  Even with Nick Sheridan quarterbacking a freshman-loaded team in Columbus, we somehow found a TD in that one.  On Saturday night, we failed to reach the end zone for the first time since that 2007 14-3 nightmare against OSU.

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