Why people hate Big Ten Basketball

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February 18th, 2009 at 11:57 PM
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sdl.9109
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Why people hate Big Ten Basketball

Apparently, the Big Ten is morphing into a high school basketball league:

Penn State 38, Illinois 33
Recap: http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=290490356

Normally, I find that people who speak out about the weakness of Big Ten basketball to be stupid considering the number of final four teams we've produced over the last decade (9), which beats the Big 12 (6), the Big East (4, 6 if you count appearances by C-USA teams that have since defected), the Pac-10 (4), and the SEC (4), tying the ACC (9) for first. However, this is just ridiculous.

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February 19th, 2009 at 12:52 AM | I couldn't agree more. That's (Score:1)
mad magician
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I couldn't agree more. That's terrible basketball and no one wants to watch that.

Big Ten conference play is just ugly half-court basketball. And it's not like these are awful teams; as you point out, and as we saw in the non-conference portion of this season, the Big Ten does well on the national level. But once February rolls around, it becomes unwatchable. My question is, why does this happen? Is it the officiating? A Midwestern mentality? Lack of skilled ball-handlers?

February 19th, 2009 at 1:16 AM | meh (Score:1)
Tacopants
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The Big Ten is not short on quality guards that can handle the ball. If anything, I'd say its the atrocious officiating that may either be heavy handed and ruin the tempo when teams start running, or will just not call blatant bumps and hand checks which leads to lots of blocks, turnovers, and badly missed shots.

Michigan is one of the few Big Ten teams that doesn't fit the traditional mold, we're just victims of maddening inconsistency and atrocious 3-point shooting. I've lost count of the tens of fast breaks Michigan has literally thrown away in conference play. If we convert them, we increase game tempo, increase points, and probably make the games more watchable.

February 19th, 2009 at 8:06 AM | Jay Bilas agrees (Score:1)
Wolverine In Exile
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http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3909529&name=bilas_jay

Let the Bilas bashing begin. Although he makes sure he fits in Michigan bashing first before trashing the rest of the conference.

I would have to agree with the officiating. Mostly midwestern officials who trained watching bball where as long as the contact is inside the paint its not a foul (thanks Tom Izzo!), but handchecking-- NOOOO!!!!!

Partly its also a result of Michigan St and Wisconsin being the most successful programs in the past ten years or so so teams try to beat them playing styles like them, and officials get used to calling styles that favor the good teams, just like in the NBA. When you have an outlier that has good skill (Indiana's final 4 team under Davis, Illinois from two years ago) and can run, they usually make a big run in the Big Ten for that year.

Plus, I blame Tommy Amaker. No reason, I just blame him.

"So I come out of Ohio Stadium after we beat the Buckeyes, and right there on the hood of my friend's car, some one took a dump, in the shape of an 'O'. no shit. Oh, sorry, bad pun."

February 19th, 2009 at 9:10 AM | Hate to defend Bilas (Score:1)
jamiemac
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 7490

But, he had nothing but good things to say about the Big 10 on multiple occassions during Gameday on Saturday.

He said 7 Big 10 deserves to go, including, he said, Michigan, who will get enough wins.

He also said, Big 10 games might look ugly, but they play great D and because of that style, the teams find it easier in the Big Dance and advance.

He was very complimentary on Saturday.

And, I dont disagree with the article he wrote....some of these Big 10 games are flat out unwatchable.

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February 19th, 2009 at 10:12 AM | I think it's definitely the (Score:1)
wooderson
Joined: 07/28/2008
MGoPoints: 343

I think it's definitely the officiating, they just let way more contact go especially off the ball. The one good thing about playing a random non-conference game in the middle of the conference season is you can see the contrast. I noticed in the OSU and Purdue games for example our guys had a lot of trouble moving without the ball because they were constantly being clutched and grabbed, hence very few open shots. As long as they didn't have the ball the refs didn't seem to notice it. All of sudden we play UCONN and guys like Douglass kept getting open coming off screens because they weren't being hand-checked or their jersey wasn't being clutched or anything. The UCONN defenders knew they couldn't get away with it, even at home.

So hopefully we can make the Big Dance because if we do get there I think we have a better chance of winning a few games than most of the conference does when they can't play defense like that.

(Note: I was watching for this in the MSU game and it really wasn't there, they just played effin' good defense. Damn you Izzo!!!)

February 19th, 2009 at 11:26 AM | I agree (Score:1)
Tater
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Until the refs call the games like basketball instead of football, the Big Ten will continue to be a strange conference. And it will continue to be a difficult one for UM's finesse game.

Ironically enough, though, it does seem to prepare players for the NCAA tournament. Maybe the Big Ten refereeing is part of why they do so well in the tournament.

http://tinfoilhatsportsblog.blogspot.com/

 

 

February 19th, 2009 at 11:41 AM | Good Defense (Score:1)
Amazin-Blue
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It might just be that the Big10 plays better defense.

Obviously, it you include Big10 games then it is hard to come to any conclusions whether it is good D or Bad O.

But, here are the stats thru 1/4/09 (Primarily non-conference games):

Division I Scoring Defense:
#5 NW
#8 Iowa
#12 Purdue
#15 osu
#16 Iowa

http://web1.ncaa.org/stats/StatsSrv/rankings?sportCode=MBB&rpt=wkly

Argument fallacy ad hominem: Attacking a characteristic of the source rather than addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence.

February 19th, 2009 at 11:50 AM | Those are just raw scoring (Score:1)
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
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Those are just raw scoring average stats, not tempo-adjusted ones. The main thing we can draw from those numbers is that lots of Big Ten teams play at a slow pace.

February 19th, 2009 at 12:26 PM | Overall Scoring (Score:1)
Amazin-Blue
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Point per game (Thru 2/15/09):

VMI: 95.9 (highest PPG)
UNC: 91.8 (#2 PPG)
Oklahoma: 80.5 (#10 PPG)

BUT, #1 Team: UConn: 77.3 (#37 Highest PPG)

MSU: 73.8
Purdue: 69.3
Illini 66.6
U/M: 67.3

So, the Big10 has lower scoring games but taking a single game (PSU 38 - Illini 33) as rationale is pretty silly.

Argument fallacy ad hominem: Attacking a characteristic of the source rather than addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence.

February 19th, 2009 at 12:54 PM | When you have a league where (Score:1)
mad magician
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When you have a league where scoring 60 points means winning nine times out of ten, then I reach for the clicker and find the nearest NBA game.

Re: North Carolina: I love watching the Heels but man, they don't even try to play defense.

February 19th, 2009 at 1:12 PM | Pick Another Number (Score:1)
Amazin-Blue
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I get your point but the "scoring 60 points means winning nine times out of 10" is just wrong.

It would be more like 70 Points to be 9 of 10.

Conference Games ONLY:

Michigan average PPG in Big10 = 60.9 (Record = 6-7)

MSU is 10-3 (not 9 out of 10) and PPG is 68.8

Big10 Scoring PPG:
High: MSU 68.8
Low: Iowa 56.6

Defense PPG
Best: Illini 57
Worst: Indiana 71.3

Argument fallacy ad hominem: Attacking a characteristic of the source rather than addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence.

February 19th, 2009 at 1:43 PM | In their 6 conference wins, (Score:1)
mad magician
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In their 6 conference wins, Michigan has averaged 69.8 ppg. In their seven losses, 53.7 ppg. They have lost only once in-conference when scoring 60 or more points (the opener vs. Wisconsin, 61-73).

February 19th, 2009 at 1:49 PM | Math Major? (Score:1)
Amazin-Blue
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Uh, that is not what you posted: "scoring 60 points means winning nine times out of ten"

That means if you score ONLY 60 points you would win 9 of 10.

How many games has M won where their opponent scored 59 or less?

Exactly 3.

As you posted M is averaging almost 70 points per game and is only 6-7.

Hard to believe they could score 10 less points per game and win 9 of 10.

Argument fallacy ad hominem: Attacking a characteristic of the source rather than addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence.

February 19th, 2009 at 2:16 PM | It was an off-the-cuff (Score:1)
mad magician
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It was an off-the-cuff comment, a general observation made before I knew we were going to be number-crunching here. So I humbly retract the exactness implied.

You're right, I am poor at math, but perhaps I should have written "When Michigan scores AT LEAST 60 points" etc. Again, scoring AT LEAST 60 Michigan is 6-1. They are 0-6 when failing to reach that mark. My point being that 60 points is like a barrier, one that when Michigan is able to break through, they typically come out victorious. It's frustrating that they've only gotten there in half of their games.

Howevah, I was an English major and therefore more apt to discern the larger themes, and the theme of this year's Big Ten season can be found in these performances:

-Michigan scoring 15 points in the first half against MSU and still being in the game.
-Last night's aforementioned 38-33 horrorshow.
-Minnesota, at the time a top-20 ranked team, scoring 16 in the first half against MSU.
-The half-time score of Illinois vs. Minnesota being 22-16, with Illinois finishing the game with 36 points.
-Purdue beating Iowa last week 49-45.
Etc etc

Only in the Big Ten.

February 19th, 2009 at 3:33 PM | The 60-point thing is a (Score:1)
jmblue
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The 60-point thing is a fluke. For most teams, that isn't enough to guarantee a win. We just happen to be a young team whose intensity (at both ends) has been highly variable this season.

February 19th, 2009 at 1:26 PM | ACC Basketball (Score:1)
Amazin-Blue
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ACC Conference Only Stats:

Offense PPG
High: UNC: 86.8
2nd: Wake: 78.4
Low: GT: 66.8

Defense PPG
Best: Duke 64.7
Worst: NCState: 78.1

So, only 10 points per game different than Big10.

Is that a reason for "hate"??

Argument fallacy ad hominem: Attacking a characteristic of the source rather than addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence.

February 19th, 2009 at 1:41 PM | A lot of it is just style (Score:1)
mad magician
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A lot of it is just style preference. There are no FreeDarko teams in the Big Ten. It's a half-court, physical brand of ball, and sometimes, especially when the shots aren't falling, it can make for a long night. In other conferences, the ACC especially, you see a more up-and-down game. Shorter possessions, higher scoring, and less defense. As I said, I don't think it's that the Big Ten teams are not as good--clearly the non-conference results say otherwise. It can just be hard to watch sometimes.

Consider a quote Deshawn Sims gave last week:

"There are times I get fouled sometimes and it's so blatant. Other times against other teams … I look at other games and I don't see things that happen in the Big Ten in other games.
Guys are really strong, and the Big Ten is a half court playing conference. If you're not strong or tough, it's kind of hard to win in the Big Ten."

February 19th, 2009 at 3:36 PM | I'd say that a difference of (Score:1)
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
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I'd say that a difference of 10 points per game is pretty striking.

February 19th, 2009 at 2:46 PM | The games are "ugly," but I (Score:1)
Sommy
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The games are "ugly," but I prefer low-scoring basketball. Big Ten basketball is where it's at.

...and by that, I mean helter-skelter, willy-nilly and putt-putt!

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