Who's your fourth biggest rival?
Excellent. Penn State can go fuck themselves. I live in PA and constantly have to hear about how great they are.
Yes, I hold grudges.
Good point...remember the Alamo!
penn state, no question
unless we started playing usc or florida regularly
wisconsin. they had a melee when they beat us in 94.
Directional Michigan U - I hate those bastards, taking away the in-state recruits.
Seriously Penn State.
Or anytime we play somebody from the SEC.
Minne$ota. Too much tradition with the LOLphers. My number 5 is Illinoize and #6 is USC.
nothing like keeping the Jug.
We still kicked their ass in that B10 title year. They won the title because of the combination of Spartan Bob and a putrid first half performance against OSU that year.
I live in Chicago, know tons of Illinois people and would still put Wisconsin and PSU above Illinois. I think Wisconsin probably is 4th because until last year, PSU simply couldn't beat us. I imagine soon enough PSU will take its rightful spot in the 4 slot though.
Hell, I'd put Iowa above Illinois. Minnesota too, due to the Jug.
Any of those three could be the #4 but ima have to go with PSU Joe Paterno alone makes this a very huge rivalry because of his legendary status as a coach I respect him but beating just feels so good!!
But for real it must be Penn State.
and Minnesota (maybe U. of Chicago) in the first half of the program's existence.
In the first half of the list was
3. Ohio State
4. Michigan State
Cornell? We're something like 6-12 against them.
Penn? 11-8-2 against them.
Yes, the Ivies have a place but they weren't annual opponents like the others. Chicago we played on Thanksgiving day as our finale each season. It was our win over them that inspired the writing of The Victors.
As far as tough competition back then, for Michigan, it was Chicago, Minnesota and the Ivies.
I have argued in the past, if Notre Dame wont join the Big Ten, then I'd just as soon have Chicago back (yeah, they'd need financial help from the conference to pull it off, but they boost in academic reputation to the conference would be like what Duke does for the ACC) than anyone else like Pitt or Syracuse. Besides, you can't have a conference built entirely out of heavy-weights (UM, OSU, PSU). Someone has to lose; might as well be the Maroons.
I know it's unlikely to happen, but if it did what kind of attendance could they get at Soldier Field?
has no bearing on reality whatsoever.
It is fun to think about because, other than that small problematic thing of not having viable athletic programs, they'd be a great fit geographically and academically.
With all of the UM alumni in the area, I think the game would have very good attendance in Chicago. I also suspect that, give the central location of Chicago, they would draw well for all Big Ten schools.
There are 13 teams that Michigan has a losing record against and Cornell is one of them. Here are the others. They must be destroyed.
App State (0-1)
Arizona State (0-1)
North Carolina (1-2)
We'd have to schedule them a lot to get over .500.
USC at 4-6; we might well quit there while we're behind. Don't want to make matters worse.
Can you help me find the other games? I am working on a project for someone and this is what I have.
11/8/1952 vs.Cornell (2-7) W 49-7
11/10/1951 @ Cornell (6-3) L 7-20
10/14/1933 vs. Cornell (4-3) W 40-0
11/10/1917 vs. Cornell (3-6)W 42-0
11/11/1916 @ Cornell (6-2)L 20-23
11/6/1915 vs. Cornell (9-0)L 7-34
11/14/1914 vs. Cornell (8-2)L 13-28
11/8/1913 @ Cornell (5-4-1)W 17-0
11/16/1912 vs. Cornell (3-7)W 20-7
11/11/1911 @ Cornell (7-3)L 0-6
11/3/1894 @ Cornell (6-4-1)L 0-22
11/24/1894 vs. Cornell (6-4-1)W 12-4
11/8/1892 @ Cornell (10-1)L 0-44
11/22/1892 vs. Cornell (10-1)L 10-30
Man, they OWNED us in '92.
regardless of year.
I'd love to have been at those asswhoopings in '17 and '33. Though that would make me dead...
year. The ones that are not in your list:
November 23, 1889: Cornell, 56-0 (OUCH!!!!) @ Buffalo, NY (huh?)
November 15, 1890: Cornell, 20-5 @ Detroit
November 21, 1891: Cornell, 58-12 @Detroit
November 28, 1891: Cornell, 10-0 @Chicago
The Nov. 22, 1892 game was in Detroit
The Nov. 24, 1894 game was at the D.A.C Park in Detroit
Interesting to Note:
In the cases when Michigan played Cornell twice in the same year, Michigan lost the 1st game and played much, much better (according to score) in the second.
6-12 I am feeling jabberwock's Cornell angst.
you stole my Cornell angst.
didn't I recently have a post about this?
yes I did.
In the first half, #4 would have to be Michigan Agricultural College.
It wasn't until 1955 that the State of Michigan renamed MAC as Michigan State University of Agriculture and Applied Science. In 1964 they dropped the "of Agriculture and Applied Science."
Hm, perhaps this was inspired by my thread?
It would come down to Penn State, Wisconsin, or Minnesota. I'd have to say Wisconsin because it's been even in the past set of football games and they've been essentially a slightly inferior version of Michigan in recent history (except 2008). Both football and academics showed some strong similarities to Carr-era Michigan.
Penn State would be 4th if they managed to win more often.
Minnesota brings to mind the Brown Jug, but their lackluster competition in modern history drops them down. If they won last year, I'd give them more consideration.
why haven't you considered Iowa? They were one hell of a rival during the Fry days, and still give us fits, particularly in Iowa City.
... credit where credit is due.
The question was who is MY fourth biggest rival, not Michigan's, so:
4. High fructose corn syrup
overall record versus pants?
HFCS. Slowly killing you. I know you can get sugar-licious Mexican Coke in most Kroger locations in Metro Detroit, perhaps check the ones in Washtenaw, in the international aisle.
I've never had any luck. Pepsi has a new "throwback" version w/ natural sugar though, but I'm a coke guy.
I would have pants higher up.
And any man who is honest would have women at #1. There is nothing more deletorius to a happy, settled life than women. They are out biggest rivals and have been driving us crazy ever since the "Apple Incident."
With all respect, anyone who rates MSU ahead of either Ohio State or Notre Dame must live in Michigan and have obnoxious family/co-workers that root for State. There is no other reason to irrationally put a historically insignificant opponent (comparatively speaking) on par with OSU or ND.
I vote Penn State #4, simply because they're a great program. But there is not much a rivalry built up there...
The vast, vast majority of Michigan fans and alumni are from the state of Michigan... so you can see how they might have this crazy idea that Michigan State is a bigger rival then a team we've played on and off for about 30 years like Notre Dame.
Yes, it's settled somewhere between 65% and 70% I believe. But in the past it's been much high, and considering our number of living alumni I think it's safe to say a majority are from Michigan. When you start adding in fans with no affiliation with the university, that number jumps even higher.
The second point is fair, but I think there are probably just as many who still hate Sparty as who lose their interest in the game.
Is a major REASON the MSU rivalry is bigger for me than ND.
I'm from Michigan, but I haven't lived there since I graduated. Because of this, MSU becomes (almost) another Big Ten team in my eyes, less so than many because I see so few MSU grads out here on the West Coast. Thus, I would call MSU my 4th biggest rival and PSU #3. The whole in state recruiting thing and Dantonio's whole Down Syndrome situation puts them ahead of teams like Wisco and Illinois, but until they start beating us regularly and I actually fret playing them, I can't consider them a huge rival like ND or OSU.
Also, a lot of the national media doesn't really know MSU exists, so it makes that less of a rivalry too.
At this point, I realize you aren't very intelligent, but seriously?
"Also, a lot of the national media doesn't really know MSU exists..."
You either don't pay attention or lead an isolated existence, kid.
WolvinLA not intelligent?
He and I don't see eye to eye politically, but he's proven to be far from "not intelligent."
For us in-staters, particularly in the Metro-Detroit area, MSU is a huge rival, above Notre Dame. The Detroit papers and radio are all Sparty crazy, and we're all surrounded by MSU grads.
Outside of the state -- not so much. Oh, any sports fan knows Michigan State the same way we're aware that Oklahoma State or Mississippi State exist. But drop down to the average joe, and they've heard of Michigan, but not State. I saw a guy in Seattle with an MSU sweatshirt on, and being with my Little Brother (who went to State), we approached him and said what's up -- you from Michigan? He answered, "no, but I like the Wolverines."
That's one story. There have been many more. Michigan is an international brand -- we had a high school exchange student from France who came here on a mission to pick up maize and blue gear, because it was all the rage with the Americanized teens (kind of like Americans going around London asking for Manchester United schlock, which by the way is a no-no).
All this is a way of saying be careful who you question. I respect a rival fan coming on these boards and providing a break from groups that can become insular and self-convincing, etc. But be careful who you go dissing or calling little kids -- we like WolvinLA.
There's quite a difference between "Michigan is more well-known than MSU nationally" and "The national media doesn't know MSU exists". One is quite understandable; the other is ignorant.
I have to apologize for sinking to WolvinLA's level with the remarks. It all started with a Paypal bet back in the day...
But c'mon, did you not notice that he also said he "almost" sees them as another B10 team? I believe he was only half-serious, though he has a point about the national recognition thing...
Americans looking for Man U gear can find it quite easily, they sell knockoffs on every street.
Except for last year that is...temporary blip on the screen.
it's gotta be penn state so we can use the cheer. It's great even when we aren't playing them.
Right now it is definitely Penn State. When I first started watching Michigan though, it was by far and away Washington w/ those back to back Rose Bowls
Definitely Penn State
Penn State then the SEC as a conference I go to Florida for a month almost every year and I am sick of uncles and cousins always commenting on how Michigan and the rest of the big eleven are inferior teams...(used to love Florida Gators no they have lost a fan)
in the BCS Championship Game
App State, we have a score to settle. Martin needs to schedule them again..after the spread is running at 100% and averaging 40 PPG. A 63-7 beat down would be about right.
Overall, I'd say Wisconsin right now. I agree that it would be Penn State if they can even the series out. On the flip side, USC could be a rival if we could start beating them once in awhile.
Minnesota, without a doubt. Seriously, there's a trophy to be won here.
I agree with the Minnesota support.
Its about the history.
Sure, Penn State is a better team, but it just isn't a real rivalry given that it lacks a real history. Maybe in 20 years, I'll revisit them as a rival.
Easily the team I'd like to watch Michigan crush after OSU, MSU, ND.
Minnesota could be, but they have not been good since the vietnam war, so unless and until they are at least at Sparty level or they are beating us at least one out of every four years (not the one in ten they are doing now), they cannot be it.
My High school was smack dab in the middle of Pennsyltucky and all these Penn State fans who never even went to college, So i would love to go on another absurdly long winning streak against the Shittany Loins (LOL!)
Just saying, that's my vote.
Personally, it's actually Wisconsin. Madison was my pick if I didn't get into Northwestern or Michigan or the East Coast moonshots, and a bunch of people I know went there, while others moved there since. We don't hear it trickle across the lake very often, but there are strong feelings in Wisconsin about America's High Five to the East.
They're like that cousin that's the same age and we grew up together. A bit more of a hick, but we were always kind of similar.
They hate that we think Lake Michigan is ours -- like we don't have enough Great Lakes of our own -- and they imagine themselves a hockey power. There's a bit of a Lil Bro attitude there, especially when they claim to be Running Back U when P.J. Hill is listed behind Mike Hart and some asswipe Buckeye as the Big Ten's best backs.
Also, Madison's a beautiful place, they have awesome sailing, their football team is old as dirt, the education is better than any in the conference except the two Midwest's Almost Ivy Leagues, and I've found -- in an admittedly small sample -- that they're generally the most likely to be cool people.
I guess that's a bad reason for a rivalry -- that we kind of like them. But remember: rivalries are relationships. Minnesota is the cousin we were put in the playpen with for years, but Wisconsin's the cousin who comes for Rosh Hashanah (literally), who you go sailing with and stuff as an adult.
Or at least I do.
Madison == Ann Arbor
college town in the country I'd like to visit.
The only others that I can think of that I haven't been but would consider over Madison is Berkeley and UCLA (Westwood?).
I'd love to go to Berkeley and Boulder. UCLA's campus was kind of dull, at least to me.
We have sand from Traverse City to New Buffalo... 100% beachfront. Wisconsin has rocks. We own Lake Michigan
I would say Purdue. Losses to them, while rare, always irk me.
...AND the whores they rode in on.
We haven't played them in forever, but if we had I'd agree. There's a lot of history there... almost Bo/Woody-ish.
Michigan State University, without a doubt.
Number 3 is Notre Dame, a quaint rivalry in its own right.
Number 2 is Ohio State University, a friendly grudge match between gentlemen.
And Number 1, with a bullet, always has been and always will be...
those fuckin' Minne$ota Geauxfurs! Numbers 3-4 can be moved around, but this will always be the number one, bloodiest, most-heated rivalry. Maybe one day they'll get the Jug back...when they pry it from our cold dead hands.
PSU, no doubt. I am as excited to play them as just about any other team on our schedule. The only knock on the series is its short history.
I would have to say USC even tho we barely play them. My girlfriend is a big USC fan and she always brags about how much better USC is that UM. I would love it if we played them every year.
First of all the subject line of this post is an endless oxymoron--"4th" "biggest (!)" "rival". When does someone become the smallest rival?
Second, it can't be Illinois. They think they have some crazy bitter rivalry with Michigan--even the back-up pastor deacon dude at my church, who is an Illinois alum, thinks there's supposed to be some animosity between us. As an experienced older brother, I assure there is nothing sweeter than refusing to acknowledge someone that desperately wants you to acknowledge them.
In closing, I select Minnesota for Michigan's smallest rival.
It's not an oxymoron. "Biggest" is the correct usage. Comparisons along these lines are made all the time. You could say, for instance, that Ann Arbor is the sixth-biggest city in Michigan.
Chicago was always are number 1, before they dropped football. Yost vs Stagg
Minnesota-Things heated up big time when the Jug came into play. When Minnesota was good and we were beating Chicago Minnesota was like Ohio State, HATED them. Now they're a joke.
Syracuse-Things got nasty against Syracuse when Michigan wasn't in the Western Conference. They were our mini-rivals. Not much I can say although the rivalry had a brief revive in 98&99 but never again.
Ohio State-Bwahahahah they really sucked back when we first started playing them. Yost whiped the floor with them every year. Until Woody came and then it turned into a rivalry
Here is MY present hated rivals:
1 Ohio State-O how I hate ohio state for life. Nuff Said
2 Notre Dame-They think they're better than us??? Didn't WE teach them football? Didn't WE send them their first head coach? Didn't WE help with ND stadium? They are very ungrateful students.
3.Penn State-They just make me sick. All of them
4.MSU-I really lost care about this rivalry when we went on that 2000-2007 streak. Their fans are annoying as hell and they don't deserve to have the word Michigan in their name because they're a disgrace. But now I can really say I don't give two shits about them.
because they're the most traditional team we play that isn't already listed as a "rival" (MSU, OSU, ND)...Also, though, my brother is a HUGE Penn State fan, so it is nice for family bragging rights.