"When Can We Fire This Guy?" Comment Count

Brian

A very special mailbag, with just one question. This one has been asked, or implied by people sending me reasons the play of the team is definitely the fault of the coaches, by many, many people the past couple weeks. If you sent one, I read it. I'm not responding except here. Sorry. Usually I try to be better about it.

The platonic ideal:

Just talk me off the ledge...

Please explain what it would take for you to no longer support Rich Rod.  What specifically has to happen?  And then, please state not just what you expect to see from the program in the coming years, but how the team will improve?  To me, that's why I just can't support Rich Rod anymore.  Show me where are the underclassmen who will show improvement and how you actually see the coaches making them better.

I just don't see it.  Instead, I see a mentally soft team, that while yes, has serious deficiencies, is currently losing to teams that also have serious deficiencies.  Our players seem to be all over the place and just poorly coached in general.

Like I said, talk me off the ledge..

I get emails like this because I've been a supporter of Rodriguez throughout his tenure at Michigan and am moving much more slowly towards the conclusion that Rodriguez should be fired than the rest of the universe. The emailer asks for specifics. To set ground rules, here are the assumptions I am working with.

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Virtually nothing that happened in 2008 was avoidable, and it was mostly not Rodriguez's fault. Michigan's program had already been gutted by attrition and poor motivation by the time Rodriguez made it to campus, and the exodus of offensive stars in the aftermath of his hiring was an inevitable consequence of the radical shift in offensive philosophy.

I have it from reliable sources Ryan Mallett was gone no matter who was the coach and that Manningham was headed for the NFL after three years from day one. Arrington left because Mallett left. Boren left because he was asked to put in the same amount of effort as the rest of the team and not given special exemptions to go be Mr. Plow. If you want to blame Rodriguez for Boren, fine. Add him to the team last year and you still have a disaster of an offense that starts Nick Sheridan most of the year.

Arguments that Rodriguez should have stuck with a pro-style offense he's never coached and forgo the installation of his system in order to get to 5-7 when hardly anyone on the roster has even played in a pro-style system have been discussed already; I think they are silly.

Rodriguez is not responsible for the enormous holes on the roster. Rodriguez has had a single full recruiting class and had a brief window in which to patch some spread-type players onto Carr's last class. The gaping holes on defense and the lack of talent at outside receiver and offensive line are almost entirely Lloyd Carr's doing. The freshmen quarterbacks are a combination of Carr putting every egg for three years in Mallett's basket and the radical shift in offensive philosophy.

This has been discussed elsewhere on the blog; I won't belabor the point.

Hiring Scott Shafer was a terrible mistake, and the other hires are questionable. At the very least it was a misjudge of the guy's ability to fit in on the staff. At worst, he allowed his DC to get submarined and saw the defense implode because of his assistants' impatience.

This may extend to Rodriguez's other hires as well: Jay Hopson has recruited very few players as Michigan withdrew entirely from Mississippi after last year's debacle; Hopson also secured the commitments of both defensive tackles who went elsewhere on signing day. His linebacking corps has regressed horribly.

And while the jury is still be out (very, very out) on Robinson given the players he has to work with, but his track record since his salad days with the Broncos is one of relentless failure with a single good-not-great year at Texas mixed in.

It is worth noting that the guys who can really be considered DeBord-style crony legacy folk are Magee, Tall, Smith, and Gibson. Dews is a vagabond who was a grad assistant at WVU for a few years before wandering around to Holy Cross, CMU, and UNLV.  Frey was picked off from South Florida a year before Rodriguez left WVU and had no prior connection to Rodriguez. Hopson is obviously new. Fred Jackson was an enforced hire by the Michigan AD.

The crony guys are the offensive coordinator who everyone loves, the DL coach who is, IME, doing a very good job, the QB coach who helped Pat White be Pat White, and… well… Tony Gibson. At this point I'd rather see Rodriguez hire a guy he knows inside and out; the folk he brings in from the outside haven't done that well.

We are not at the point yet where the deficiencies in the team are clearly the doing of the coaches. It's pretty suggestive at linebacker, sure. But the secondary is just a disaster zone and would be a disaster zone if Monte Kiffin cloned himself eight times and had all eight players try to teach the safeties how to play football. The offense has improved greatly from year one to year two and has done so with true freshmen at quarterback. Since Rodriguez has a track record of success, he should be extended the benefit of the doubt.

They're not "soft." They don't play like mincing Frenchmen. They play like speed-addled kids with ADD. They are irresponsible and sometimes dumb. This is because they are terribly young or Michigan's linebackers. What does "soft" even mean? Jonas Mouton blowing coverages and cutback lanes game after game is not soft. Mike Williams overrunning everyone on Illinois is not soft. Michigan blowing assignments on the Illinois goal line stand is not soft.

It takes time to dig out.

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Michigan was not a 3-9 team by accident; they had the talent of a 3-9 team. If you disagree with that, it's probably to suggest that Michigan was really a 5-7 or 4-8 team that Rodriguez screwed up into being a slightly more horrible team, right?

If you think that Michigan's downfall was entirely Rodriguez-made and you're pointing to the gutted recruiting classes that were in the top ten at their inception but have been ground down to dust, you can safely move on from this post since nothing in it will convince you. My opinion is that a combination of poor late stewardship from Carr and the wrenching transition to the opposite of Lloyd Carr in so many ways is what doomed us to this transition.

So:

I expect Rodriguez to provide continual improvement until Michigan is back to being Michigan. That's my baseline. I'm not exactly thrilled with what's gone on this year but I think it's understandable. Given the roster situation and the chaos at DC—which Rodriguez is responsible for—this Michigan team is within the range in which Rich Rodriguez is not an idiot who got lucky with Pat White and Steve Slaton. It's towards the lower end of the range but it is in the range. It takes time to dig out from the hole they were in.

Next year, Michigan must be better than they are this year. I have no idea where the emailer is getting the idea that Michigan can't be a better team when they return at least 16 starters on offense and defense, with Donovan Warren a potential 17th, some combination of Dorrestein and Omameh a potential 18th, and Darryl Stonum a functional 19th.

Additionally, the players on this team are still extremely young. There are 11 starters on the team who are sophomores or freshman by eligibility, and many of the guys with redshirts in there are guys like Hemingway, Huyge, and Molk who missed large chunks of time with injury. The quarterbacks should take huge leaps forward in their second year. The only spot at which Michigan should be appreciably worse next year, excepting special teams, is Brandon Graham. That will be a major loss; it won't offset improved play at every position on the field.

So, sure. If you really don't think Michigan is going to be better next year I can understand why you'd want to see Rodriguez fired. I also think you're completely nuts.

If they aren't obviously better, then Rodriguez should be fired. If they don't make a bowl game, if they aren't obviously moving away from the Big Ten cellar, if they don't approach yardage parity against BCS opponents, Rodriguez should be fired. I think all of those things are seriously unlikely, and am willing to invest a year to find out. Where it is in black and white: acts of God nonwithstanding, Michigan has to go 8-5 next year or Rodriguez should be cut loose. 7-6 might be okay if the bowl matchup is obviously bad.

This is the last I'll say about it until next year.

Comments

ATrain32

November 9th, 2009 at 8:22 PM ^

Re: Brian's reference to Mallett: Kmedved wrote, "Unfortunately, I have no reason to think that's actually the case." And you provide no reason to think it's not the case either. Your assertions of the 'high cost related to transferring' are vauge. The prestige dropoff? Please, the kid is from Texarkana. I doubt he sees Arkansas as a major step down since Arkansas was competing with us for his commitment. Think of the bonuses for Mallett: 1 going back home. 2 going to Arkansas he is closer to family and friends, playing for a team he grew up following, 3 and Arkansas is a school that competed with M for his services in recruitment. The fact we got him was a coop for Lloyd if I recall correctly given how heated the competition was to get him from regional schools near his home. With Coach Carr retiring and Mustain transferring, opportunity opened up for Mallett to strike a new path with the Razorbacks. Before Mustain transferred Mallett would likely have been blocked. (I won't get into the hearsay that Carr and Mallett did not see eye to eye on much; but there exists a theory that Mallett had issues being at M well before RR arrived). I will say people change their minds and he chose to go back home to Arkansas. There is little suggest that he was going to stay at M. The Mallett departure issue was covered in more detail on this blog back around the time he left M. If you are really interested in understanding Brian's 'good authority' reference, you might consider searching the site's archives for more detail before you dismiss it so lightly.

Kevin Holtsberry

November 9th, 2009 at 5:30 PM ^

Although, I have never wanted RichRod fired or any other major overhaul, I admit I felt some panic. I appreciate Brian laying out nicely in one post why patience is needed and why he thinks next year will see improvement. I would still like to see a spark in the next two games that indicates this team won't always panic or over-react to things. As has been said by practically everyone, beating Ohio State would really make the pain tolerable.

Heisman212

November 9th, 2009 at 5:36 PM ^

is a coach that understands how to beat OSU. Everyone needs to understand that Rich Rod is not going anywhere right now. If he gets this team ready for the next two games and we go to a bowl this will blow over. If you guys cant see that the offense is going to be explosive than you are crazy. (no comment on the defense) I dont know what he is going to do about that mess other than hit the recruiting trail. If we beat OSU this year he has a pass with me through next year. Michigan needs a BIG win to end this season.

brown

November 9th, 2009 at 5:37 PM ^

I agree that 7-5 regular season is a pretty reasonable benchmark for next season. I wish we could pick up some JUCO players on defense, man. Our offense is going to be pretty nasty next year, assuming we can get a combination of people to = Brandon Minor, which I think we can.

dahblue

November 9th, 2009 at 6:24 PM ^

I'm not sure if your comment was directed to me, but no. My freshman year, 1991-92, is my benchmark. We had a great win over ND (the catch) but still got blown out by FSU. The year was not perfect, but we had skilled players playing hard and even with a big loss to FSU...we had respect.

Engin77

November 9th, 2009 at 6:50 PM ^

you're the guy who mentioned the year before RR arrived as setting the standard for next year; 2007 is the year before RR arrived. 1991 was a good year, M was undefeated in the Big Ten. That was a very different Big Ten; the game has changed alot in the last 18 years, just ask any ND fan. Outside the Big ten, M lost by 20 to FSU and by 20 to Washington in the Rose Bowl.

dahblue

November 9th, 2009 at 6:56 PM ^

No. I didn't say 2007 was the "standard" but I did say that I don't accept that creeping back to a sub-par year is acceptable for year three. I set 91 as my standard because I don't expect perfection. That FSU game was a bad loss, but frankly, the most fun I've ever had at a losing game. The FSU fans were great, and had plenty of respect for UofM despite the score. We've lost that respect these last two years.

harmon98

November 9th, 2009 at 10:48 PM ^

my junior year of undergrad and I remember it well. we were torched that game. bowden came into town and hung 51 on us. buckley picked the first pass from scrimmage (screen to desmond as I recall) and returned it to the house. noles tb amp lee shredded our linebackers and secondary all afternoon. it was a beatdown my friend. and btw, we had four all americans on that squad: desmond, anderson, matt elliot, and skrepenak. there was no respect for us by the noles fans I ran into in the bars after the game. I'll speak for myself in that I didn't have a whole lot of fun that afternoon.

markusr2007

November 9th, 2009 at 5:42 PM ^

I agree with what he's written here. It will take several years and several major accomplishments (9+ wins per year with several "upsets" peppered in there) for RR to erase the bad taste of 3-9 and 5-7 and no bowls. They will probably never allow Rodriguez to live this all down, unless the Wolverines start to inexplicably and absolutely own its chief rivals (ND, MSU, OSU) and the rest of the Big Ten conference starting in 2010. Frankly, I just don't see that happening. I'm in the camp that says Rodriguez deserves time, but many UM fans think Brian Kelly or Les Miles could come to Ann Arbor and turn the ship around faster and more decisively. My warning is simply this: Michigan fans are supposed to be more intelligent than other fans. Michigan should do its utmost not to emulate what Notre Dame and Baylor did to their football programs. Michigan must not be Baylored. Rodriguez's offensive turnaround in one year (2008 to 2009) has been impressive( 32 vs. 22 PPG, 5.9 vs 4.7 YPP, 403 vs 303 YPG) but it was also completely expected. By year three Michigan has one of the most experience-rich offensive lines in the country. They will probably be 450-500+ ypg offense even without the services of Carlos Brown and Brandon Minor at tailback. Shaw and Smith will do ample work here, and now opposing defenses will have to deal with Odoms, Roundtree and Gallons of fun at slot. The 2010 defense is the scary part. After 10 games into year 2 under R, I'm convinced that there are way better linebacker and secondary coaches out there than Jay Hopson and Tony Gibson. I mean, way better. If Robinson is really in charge of the Michigan defense(and I capitalize the "I" on "If", because I think he's in charge of jack and shit, and jack left town), then he should not pause. GERG should go get the best coaches in place to execute his strategy and develop his players. I don't think it's Robinson's call, however. Regardless, I think Michigan is in for another painful season of not stopping anyone on defense in 2010. I don't like Michigan's schedule in 2010. Notre Dame probably takes a step down next year (Clausen/Chryst/Floyd), but UConn could be a surprisingly tough opponent by kickoff 2010. I foresee a 3-1 start next fall before conference play begins: Conf Home Games: MSU, Iowa, Illinois and Wisconsin Conf Road Games: Indiana, Purdue, Penn State and Ohio State. Do not play: Northwestern, Minnesota Purdue, Iowa and Illinois are going down next year (major graduationage). Michigan, as Brian said, is going to have a ridiculous number of returning player minutes next fall compared to other conference teams. Games I like least next year are MSU, Wisconsin, and of course, at PSU and at Ohio State.

DoubleMs

November 9th, 2009 at 5:49 PM ^

This is a reply to someone earlier, but it took awhile to write, so I am making it its own reply. Michigan wasn't defined as a great program by Bo Schembechler. It was defined by Fielding Yost a long, long time ago, and Oosterbaan after him. Bo Schembechler took a form of football that was wandering around, mediocre but not great anymore, and redefined it. Bo was an innovator. Bo ball is 40 years old, and while it was one of the best kinds of ball out there at the time, more recently the spread has outdone it on the national stage time and time again. It's time for another shift. However, in the modern day, there is a much larger variety of talent than there was in Bo's days. Bo could turn things around quickly because his game was about a 30 degree turn from his predecessor's. Didn't require a major change of personnel. The field of football teams only spanned about 30 degrees at that time. That field has been redrawn. Rich Rodriguez took Bo ball and did a 180, because there are now 180 possible degrees, with Bo ball residing at one end and the Spread at the other end. Proportionally, it takes a longer to turn 180 degrees than it takes to turn 30 degrees. Try it yourself. Go ahead, the rest of us will wait for you to catch up. This isn't a video game where turns are instantaneous. It's more like turning a ship around while under enemy fire. Assuming it took one offseason to be a great team with Bo ball (a 30 degree turn), it has taken two offseasons and a regular season so far, and this season, next offseason, and another full season to be great. Ergo, 2011. The same argument I have made before. During most of this time, Rich Rod will be broadside to his enemy, leaving himself open to ridicule and damaging losses, and our only hope is that he can get turned around in time to unleash the massive cannon that he has hiding on the back deck. Who knows what mad innovation will come up next - the Pistol seems to be adding another 30 degrees beyond the spread to this giant circle of football. Maybe there will be a crazy offense in the opposite direction, a blast from the past, comes out with 5 linemen, three TE's, a running QB, and two running backs that blows up people because they can't compete with that much size once the spread becomes the standard. Who knows?

slappy09

November 9th, 2009 at 5:51 PM ^

Hey Brian, Great post as always. There are a couple things that really bug me about Rich. But mainly it's his constant throwing the team under the bus to save himself. We all agree that the talent levels may not be there, but to constantly point that out in press conferences? I'm no genius at football, but i'm pretty sure if you keep publicly telling your players that they are crap, they're gonna start playing worse. Just man up. You're not doing what you need to do to motivate your players to play outside of themselves. You got lucky in the first 3 games with the player out to prove a point from last year... that fire is gone, maybe too cocky after the huge ND game? I just want to see him man up and say - we have been out coached this year.

DoubleMs

November 9th, 2009 at 6:04 PM ^

By out-coached do you mean out rock-paper-scissored? That's not it... we have awesome schematic domination, they have awesome schematic domination. Once in awhile it happens. The Purdue on-side kick is one situation where Rich Rod had to stand back and just go 'well played, good sir', because there was nothing he could do to prevent that. It's entirely unexpected. Do you mean strength and conditioning? No, can't be that either... the team has been Barwisized. Do you mean learning to play your position? Well, you can't blame RR for the defense, he essentially hired a DC so he doesn't have to do so much with the defense. You can't really blame GERG either, because his schemes are doing pretty well, it's just missed assignments that are causing issues. So that lies to the two people who everyone has been bitching about, our LB coach and Secondary coach. That's rectifiable. My only point of contention with RR's coaching is his off-the-field decisions. One in particular. The players are no longer required to live in the dorms freshman year. It may be that the separation from the rest of the student body is detrimental during that identity-forming freshman year.

jim48315

November 11th, 2009 at 12:47 AM ^

I agree with your point. But I don't think it necessary for him to concede being outcoached. Just to be encouraging about the kids on the team and saying something like he and the coaches have not yet found the way to bring those kids the success their effort deserves. RR should drop acting like Wouk's fictional Lt. Commander Philip F. Queeg, the man who never made a mistake.

sharkhunter

November 9th, 2009 at 5:52 PM ^

with Devin Gardner on the horizon, why would anyone want to get rid of RR?!!? Mich has the highest scoring offense in the B10. That will probably be the trend as long as RR is here. Unfortunately, Mich has the statistical opposite with regard to defense counter-productivity.

dahblue

November 9th, 2009 at 6:07 PM ^

You're right about the terrible D, but there's no guarantee that Gardner would leave if RR did. I think Brian Kelly wanted him at Cincinnati. I'm sure he'd be happy to stay if he liked the selected coach. A similar situation just happened in bball. Manny was an Amaker commit who stayed on (and DeShawn stuck around after his first year as well). Both stayed because they had confidence in the new program (and because Mike Jackson stayed on staff). Keep Chris Singletary as recruiting coordinator to aid the transition and bring in a coach who brings pride back to the program.

dahblue

November 9th, 2009 at 7:32 PM ^

Alex Legion? Who left...came back...left...They didn't want him back at that point. Manny stayed because Mike Jackson was brought back by JB after initially being allowed to pick up a job elsewhere. Same story for DeShawn. Lose Mike Jackson; lose the two stars of the team. Who the hell is scooter? Should I just say that I love Michigan no matter what? No. I am not a blind loyalist. I am a Michigan man. I am an alum. If I see something I don't like in my school, I will point it out. I don't like what RR has done, mark me negative all day long.

Undefeated dre…

November 9th, 2009 at 6:09 PM ^

It's a misnomer to think that the offense and defense are completely separate entities. They are both the responsibility of Rodriguez, and Rodriguez's system puts a big onus on the defense. Rodriguez is *not* the offensive coordinator -- he's the head coach. If productive offenses keep coming but the defenses continue to be more bad than the offenses are good, something will have to give. Here's hoping we don't face that situation.

umchicago

November 9th, 2009 at 5:57 PM ^

i've echoed most of the sentiments for many months now (ad nauseum). many other "reasonable" posters, here, have as well. i would like to add that i think the program is just one year behind schedule (that is, my schedule). in year 1 i was just hoping we made a bowl, but we had disaster. the D was much worse than anyone could have predicted...and it continues. now in year 2, we are hoping for a bowl and may get there. we have 2 shots at it. the O has improved greatly. i originally thought we would be in the 8 win range in year 2 then challenge for big 10 titles after that. i think we have a reasonable shot at 8 wins next year and 2011 a shot at the big10 title. in 2011 we should have a significant majority of upperclass starters, instead of the majority underclass right now. to me, it seems completely crazy to get rid of this staff merely because we are one year behind schedule...uh er, my schedule. if we don't show improvement in 2010 and have big 10 title expectations in 2011, than RR's job should be in jeopardy, and he knows that. but he has until 2011, unless 2010 is a complete disaster.

umchicago

November 9th, 2009 at 6:07 PM ^

now, i will admit that i know little or nothing about any of the asst coaches. in fact, except for GERG and mcgee, i would not know if any of them passed me by on the street. however, i supreme confidence in RR and his offensive assistants. the O has improved greatly in year 2. the D however? i have confidence in GERG. i don't think you get to be a D coordinator on a super bowl champ team without knowing a few things. my question is: if RR has confidence in GERG, shouldn't GERG have a say as to who his assistants are? i mean, wouldn't GERG know some assistants who know his schemes possibly better than our current coaches - RR's guys? or was GERG involved with the hiring of some of these guys? just throwing it out there.

goblue1327

November 9th, 2009 at 6:09 PM ^

The vast improvement in the offense alone is enough reason for at least patience. Next year we return anywhere from 16-19 starters, and another full year of practice and experience will be huge for Forcier. The biggest improvement for the team next year may be turnovers. Michigan has an awful turnover margin this year, which is the main thing holding them back. With a much more experienced team next year, the turnover margin will improve. If you look at this year's games, even with an awful defense, Michigan probably beats Iowa, competes with Penn State and the Illinois game is a whole different story. Great post Brian, until I am given a huge reason not to, I believe that Rich Rod does have this team moving in the right direction, maybe more slowly than originally thought, but he has until at least through 2011 in my book. Otherwise it would be at least two more years of total rebuilding.

TIMMMAAY

November 9th, 2009 at 6:34 PM ^

Why, in TWIS, did you change the name of the "Tears of Unfathomable Sadness" award to "Tears of Infinite Sadness"? Licensing issues? Just curious, didn't want to start a thread to ask, add to the inbox, or comment over on the other blag.

ten.gtd

November 9th, 2009 at 6:45 PM ^

The detractors are the same people that honk their horn at the fast food drive-thru. I'm not thrilled about our staff, but I think that's why GERG got the A-OK from Martin & Coleman. Rodriguez needed someone to evaluate his personnel on the coaching staff. Be interesting to see who he brings in in the off-season, but I don't think the program is broken... When Rodriguez gets his recruits in and they compete for positions, I think we are going to have a very talented, deep football team.

DCBlue

November 9th, 2009 at 6:46 PM ^

Remember when we were all collectively shitting our pants over the coaching search debacle, and then all got so fucking giddy when Martin and Coleman pulled Rodriguez out of their ass? The last two weeks feels like the proverbial shit in my pants again. I just can't wait to be giddy again. If Rodriguez pulls off a complete stunner against OSU, I'll bet 90% of everyone here will be back on the bandwagon. And before anyone goes off on me for suggesting Michigan will beat Ohio State, take a couple deep breaths. Most likely they won't. But, goddammit, I HOPE they do. RE: Brian's post, I completely agree. If they improve to the 7-5 or 8-4 range, Rich Rod gets his 5 years (pending the NCAA road bump). If not, well, I, you, and Mary Sue reevaluate. Seems pretty logical and reasoned to me.

dahblue

November 9th, 2009 at 6:47 PM ^

I love reading mgoblog for recruiting updates, insight into the UofM athletic programs, etc...but my first foray into the message boards is a bit of a letdown. Feel free to vote me down; I know it's coming. Look...it seems clear that failure to agree is terribly frowned upon, but how many of you would have tolerated Beilein if his second season were nearly as bad as his first? With a young, undersized team, JB brought us improvement...huge improvement. We saw a new attitude and passion on the floor (with mostly Amaker's players). Year two of RR, by contrast, shows a meager improvement in wins and possible regression on the field. To say that RR is ok as long as we beat OSU? C'mon, that sounds like Spartan talk ("...as long as we beat UofM"). 7-6/8-5 is ok? No. No it's not.

DCBlue

November 9th, 2009 at 6:56 PM ^

I respect your opinion and you have every right to vocalize it. I just think it's a bit naive to think that Michigan is suddenly going to be 9-3 or 10-2 if Rodriguez is fired on November 22. Coleman isn't going to make a public pronouncement backing Rodriguez and then fire him despite that statement. It just isn't going to happen. If next year is a mirror image of this one, I think she'll reevaluate. That was the point of my post. That and beating OSU, however unlikely, would still take a lot of the bad taste out of my mouth from this season. If you don't feel the same way about that, I'm not sure where to classify you in the Michigan fan base.

dahblue

November 9th, 2009 at 7:04 PM ^

Thanks for that reply. It's nice to post my thoughts and get a fair and reasoned reply. Certainly miles better than being called a douchebag or troll by someone living in their parents' basement talking about the time they saw "boobies". Anyway, I think that if RR gets the ax and we get either Kelly, Miles or Harbaugh (assuming that the deal could be done with any of them), that we'd see solid improvement and possibly an end to Neil Diamond over the PA. Whatever the record, my benchmark is improvement and I don't believe we're seeing that now.

BostonWolverine

November 9th, 2009 at 7:35 PM ^

I'm totally fine with people coming on here stating their opinions, but allow me to say a couple things about yours: 1) We're not going to get Miles. Kelly is either going to be in Cincy or South Bend next year (and I'm hoping Cincy - as I'm from there - the Bearcats are my distant #2 team). Harbaugh maybe, but I think he's gonna end up in the NFL first, only to fail and come back to college. And if we were gonna get any of them, it WOULD be after next year. Also, if we were to bring in ANOTHER new system now, where the hell would that leave us? 2) Improvement is relative by definition. The first year was always slated as a rebuild from day one. Does that lessen the amount that it frustrates and saddens us? Probably not, but it's true nonetheless. That was a 3-9 season. It's hard to argue that we're not seeing improvement given the fact that we have 5 wins, not 3. That's a two game swing. The easy response to that is, "At that rate, we won't have a shot at anything major for another 2-3 years." and "Do you really think we should stick with RR through another two mediocre seasons after this?" The answer is no, but I don't expect that to happen. I expect a pretty good year next year, and an excellent one in 2011. To say that you haven't seen improvement means you're either being disingenuous, jumping the gun, or you're just not good at math.

dahblue

November 9th, 2009 at 7:40 PM ^

You say we won't get one of the three coaches but continue to say "maybe" we will. As to improvement...we will win more games, but are getting worse each week. Our defense is arguably worse than last year (depends if by yards or points). Improvement to me means "getting better". If you think this team is better today than in September...you need to share what you're smoking.

dahblue

November 9th, 2009 at 9:35 PM ^

Yes, the defense has regressed. The defense that was the "strength" of our team last year is getting worse each week. I've always been a fan of defense and loved it when we set defensive records. Teams could barely score on us in the 4th quarter. Now, the can score on us 4 times in a quarter.

BostonWolverine

November 10th, 2009 at 12:51 AM ^

Regarding your interpretation of "maybe," I meant that he may be available, and as I went on to say - I think he'll probably go to the NFL and fail first. Regarding our defense, I think we're just as bad as we were at the beginning of the year. The 4-0 start fooled a lot of people, but 6 of our games we gave up 30+ points. The teams we gave up less than 30 to are: Eastern Michigan, Western Michigan, Michigan St. and Delaware St. 3 of those games are against subpar or sub-subpar opponents. MSU has been putting up pretty big numbers, so that's the only game where the defense bent but didn't break - check that - broke but didn't shatter against a decent opponent. I don't know how much we've really regressed. I think it just looks worse because we're losing those games now.

BlueAmongTheCorn

November 9th, 2009 at 7:06 PM ^

I think trying to draw any type of conclusion on the success of what Beilein has done vs what RichRod has done is very difficult to do. In Basketball you can rely heavily on one player to get a team a lot further than they really are, I am not saying that was done at Michigan but it is completely different. My main reason for wanting to give this coaching staff another year is we will have a QB that has been in the system for 2 years with the athletic ability to succeed. Now, next year if we do not see improvement and in my opinion that means Bowl Game then maybe it is time for us to look another direction but just as Brian said I have a hard time not believing this team won’t be better next year.