sounds like a "you" problem; like you lost something to which you were entitled.
is there such a thing as an etsy genuis? if so, this is it.
A very special mailbag, with just one question. This one has been asked, or implied by people sending me reasons the play of the team is definitely the fault of the coaches, by many, many people the past couple weeks. If you sent one, I read it. I'm not responding except here. Sorry. Usually I try to be better about it.
The platonic ideal:
Just talk me off the ledge...
Please explain what it would take for you to no longer support Rich Rod. What specifically has to happen? And then, please state not just what you expect to see from the program in the coming years, but how the team will improve? To me, that's why I just can't support Rich Rod anymore. Show me where are the underclassmen who will show improvement and how you actually see the coaches making them better.
I just don't see it. Instead, I see a mentally soft team, that while yes, has serious deficiencies, is currently losing to teams that also have serious deficiencies. Our players seem to be all over the place and just poorly coached in general.
Like I said, talk me off the ledge..
I get emails like this because I've been a supporter of Rodriguez throughout his tenure at Michigan and am moving much more slowly towards the conclusion that Rodriguez should be fired than the rest of the universe. The emailer asks for specifics. To set ground rules, here are the assumptions I am working with.
Virtually nothing that happened in 2008 was avoidable, and it was mostly not Rodriguez's fault. Michigan's program had already been gutted by attrition and poor motivation by the time Rodriguez made it to campus, and the exodus of offensive stars in the aftermath of his hiring was an inevitable consequence of the radical shift in offensive philosophy.
I have it from reliable sources Ryan Mallett was gone no matter who was the coach and that Manningham was headed for the NFL after three years from day one. Arrington left because Mallett left. Boren left because he was asked to put in the same amount of effort as the rest of the team and not given special exemptions to go be Mr. Plow. If you want to blame Rodriguez for Boren, fine. Add him to the team last year and you still have a disaster of an offense that starts Nick Sheridan most of the year.
Arguments that Rodriguez should have stuck with a pro-style offense he's never coached and forgo the installation of his system in order to get to 5-7 when hardly anyone on the roster has even played in a pro-style system have been discussed already; I think they are silly.
Rodriguez is not responsible for the enormous holes on the roster. Rodriguez has had a single full recruiting class and had a brief window in which to patch some spread-type players onto Carr's last class. The gaping holes on defense and the lack of talent at outside receiver and offensive line are almost entirely Lloyd Carr's doing. The freshmen quarterbacks are a combination of Carr putting every egg for three years in Mallett's basket and the radical shift in offensive philosophy.
This has been discussed elsewhere on the blog; I won't belabor the point.
Hiring Scott Shafer was a terrible mistake, and the other hires are questionable. At the very least it was a misjudge of the guy's ability to fit in on the staff. At worst, he allowed his DC to get submarined and saw the defense implode because of his assistants' impatience.
This may extend to Rodriguez's other hires as well: Jay Hopson has recruited very few players as Michigan withdrew entirely from Mississippi after last year's debacle; Hopson also secured the commitments of both defensive tackles who went elsewhere on signing day. His linebacking corps has regressed horribly.
And while the jury is still be out (very, very out) on Robinson given the players he has to work with, but his track record since his salad days with the Broncos is one of relentless failure with a single good-not-great year at Texas mixed in.
It is worth noting that the guys who can really be considered DeBord-style crony legacy folk are Magee, Tall, Smith, and Gibson. Dews is a vagabond who was a grad assistant at WVU for a few years before wandering around to Holy Cross, CMU, and UNLV. Frey was picked off from South Florida a year before Rodriguez left WVU and had no prior connection to Rodriguez. Hopson is obviously new. Fred Jackson was an enforced hire by the Michigan AD.
The crony guys are the offensive coordinator who everyone loves, the DL coach who is, IME, doing a very good job, the QB coach who helped Pat White be Pat White, and… well… Tony Gibson. At this point I'd rather see Rodriguez hire a guy he knows inside and out; the folk he brings in from the outside haven't done that well.
We are not at the point yet where the deficiencies in the team are clearly the doing of the coaches. It's pretty suggestive at linebacker, sure. But the secondary is just a disaster zone and would be a disaster zone if Monte Kiffin cloned himself eight times and had all eight players try to teach the safeties how to play football. The offense has improved greatly from year one to year two and has done so with true freshmen at quarterback. Since Rodriguez has a track record of success, he should be extended the benefit of the doubt.
They're not "soft." They don't play like mincing Frenchmen. They play like speed-addled kids with ADD. They are irresponsible and sometimes dumb. This is because they are terribly young or Michigan's linebackers. What does "soft" even mean? Jonas Mouton blowing coverages and cutback lanes game after game is not soft. Mike Williams overrunning everyone on Illinois is not soft. Michigan blowing assignments on the Illinois goal line stand is not soft.
It takes time to dig out.
Michigan was not a 3-9 team by accident; they had the talent of a 3-9 team. If you disagree with that, it's probably to suggest that Michigan was really a 5-7 or 4-8 team that Rodriguez screwed up into being a slightly more horrible team, right?
If you think that Michigan's downfall was entirely Rodriguez-made and you're pointing to the gutted recruiting classes that were in the top ten at their inception but have been ground down to dust, you can safely move on from this post since nothing in it will convince you. My opinion is that a combination of poor late stewardship from Carr and the wrenching transition to the opposite of Lloyd Carr in so many ways is what doomed us to this transition.
I expect Rodriguez to provide continual improvement until Michigan is back to being Michigan. That's my baseline. I'm not exactly thrilled with what's gone on this year but I think it's understandable. Given the roster situation and the chaos at DC—which Rodriguez is responsible for—this Michigan team is within the range in which Rich Rodriguez is not an idiot who got lucky with Pat White and Steve Slaton. It's towards the lower end of the range but it is in the range. It takes time to dig out from the hole they were in.
Next year, Michigan must be better than they are this year. I have no idea where the emailer is getting the idea that Michigan can't be a better team when they return at least 16 starters on offense and defense, with Donovan Warren a potential 17th, some combination of Dorrestein and Omameh a potential 18th, and Darryl Stonum a functional 19th.
Additionally, the players on this team are still extremely young. There are 11 starters on the team who are sophomores or freshman by eligibility, and many of the guys with redshirts in there are guys like Hemingway, Huyge, and Molk who missed large chunks of time with injury. The quarterbacks should take huge leaps forward in their second year. The only spot at which Michigan should be appreciably worse next year, excepting special teams, is Brandon Graham. That will be a major loss; it won't offset improved play at every position on the field.
So, sure. If you really don't think Michigan is going to be better next year I can understand why you'd want to see Rodriguez fired. I also think you're completely nuts.
If they aren't obviously better, then Rodriguez should be fired. If they don't make a bowl game, if they aren't obviously moving away from the Big Ten cellar, if they don't approach yardage parity against BCS opponents, Rodriguez should be fired. I think all of those things are seriously unlikely, and am willing to invest a year to find out. Where it is in black and white: acts of God nonwithstanding, Michigan has to go 8-5 next year or Rodriguez should be cut loose. 7-6 might be okay if the bowl matchup is obviously bad.
This is the last I'll say about it until next year.
sounds like a "you" problem; like you lost something to which you were entitled.
my junior year of undergrad and I remember it well. we were torched that game. bowden came into town and hung 51 on us. buckley picked the first pass from scrimmage (screen to desmond as I recall) and returned it to the house. noles tb amp lee shredded our linebackers and secondary all afternoon. it was a beatdown my friend. and btw, we had four all americans on that squad: desmond, anderson, matt elliot, and skrepenak. there was no respect for us by the noles fans I ran into in the bars after the game.
I'll speak for myself in that I didn't have a whole lot of fun that afternoon.
I agree with what he's written here.
It will take several years and several major accomplishments (9+ wins per year with several "upsets" peppered in there) for RR to erase the bad taste of 3-9 and 5-7 and no bowls.
They will probably never allow Rodriguez to live this all down, unless the Wolverines start to inexplicably and absolutely own its chief rivals (ND, MSU, OSU) and the rest of the Big Ten conference starting in 2010. Frankly, I just don't see that happening. I'm in the camp that says Rodriguez deserves time, but many UM fans think Brian Kelly or Les Miles could come to Ann Arbor and turn the ship around faster and more decisively.
My warning is simply this: Michigan fans are supposed to be more intelligent than other fans. Michigan should do its utmost not to emulate what Notre Dame and Baylor did to their football programs. Michigan must not be Baylored.
Rodriguez's offensive turnaround in one year (2008 to 2009) has been impressive( 32 vs. 22 PPG, 5.9 vs 4.7 YPP, 403 vs 303 YPG) but it was also completely expected. By year three Michigan has one of the most experience-rich offensive lines in the country. They will probably be 450-500+ ypg offense even without the services of Carlos Brown and Brandon Minor at tailback. Shaw and Smith will do ample work here, and now opposing defenses will have to deal with Odoms, Roundtree and Gallons of fun at slot.
The 2010 defense is the scary part. After 10 games into year 2 under R, I'm convinced that there are way better linebacker and secondary coaches out there than Jay Hopson and Tony Gibson. I mean, way better. If Robinson is really in charge of the Michigan defense(and I capitalize the "I" on "If", because I think he's in charge of jack and shit, and jack left town), then he should not pause. GERG should go get the best coaches in place to execute his strategy and develop his players. I don't think it's Robinson's call, however. Regardless, I think Michigan is in for another painful season of not stopping anyone on defense in 2010.
I don't like Michigan's schedule in 2010. Notre Dame probably takes a step down next year (Clausen/Chryst/Floyd), but UConn could be a surprisingly tough opponent by kickoff 2010. I foresee a 3-1 start next fall before conference play begins:
Conf Home Games: MSU, Iowa, Illinois and Wisconsin
Conf Road Games: Indiana, Purdue, Penn State and Ohio State.
Do not play: Northwestern, Minnesota
Purdue, Iowa and Illinois are going down next year (major graduationage). Michigan, as Brian said, is going to have a ridiculous number of returning player minutes next fall compared to other conference teams.
Games I like least next year are MSU, Wisconsin, and of course, at PSU and at Ohio State.
I didn't realize the season was over already
This is a reply to someone earlier, but it took awhile to write, so I am making it its own reply.
Michigan wasn't defined as a great program by Bo Schembechler. It was defined by Fielding Yost a long, long time ago, and Oosterbaan after him. Bo Schembechler took a form of football that was wandering around, mediocre but not great anymore, and redefined it. Bo was an innovator. Bo ball is 40 years old, and while it was one of the best kinds of ball out there at the time, more recently the spread has outdone it on the national stage time and time again. It's time for another shift. However, in the modern day, there is a much larger variety of talent than there was in Bo's days. Bo could turn things around quickly because his game was about a 30 degree turn from his predecessor's. Didn't require a major change of personnel. The field of football teams only spanned about 30 degrees at that time.
That field has been redrawn. Rich Rodriguez took Bo ball and did a 180, because there are now 180 possible degrees, with Bo ball residing at one end and the Spread at the other end. Proportionally, it takes a longer to turn 180 degrees than it takes to turn 30 degrees. Try it yourself. Go ahead, the rest of us will wait for you to catch up. This isn't a video game where turns are instantaneous. It's more like turning a ship around while under enemy fire.
Assuming it took one offseason to be a great team with Bo ball (a 30 degree turn), it has taken two offseasons and a regular season so far, and this season, next offseason, and another full season to be great. Ergo, 2011. The same argument I have made before. During most of this time, Rich Rod will be broadside to his enemy, leaving himself open to ridicule and damaging losses, and our only hope is that he can get turned around in time to unleash the massive cannon that he has hiding on the back deck.
Who knows what mad innovation will come up next - the Pistol seems to be adding another 30 degrees beyond the spread to this giant circle of football. Maybe there will be a crazy offense in the opposite direction, a blast from the past, comes out with 5 linemen, three TE's, a running QB, and two running backs that blows up people because they can't compete with that much size once the spread becomes the standard. Who knows?
It's more like turning a ship around while under enemy fire.
This is one of the most apt analogies I've heard used to describe RR's efforts to install his system.
Great post as always. There are a couple things that really bug me about Rich. But mainly it's his constant throwing the team under the bus to save himself. We all agree that the talent levels may not be there, but to constantly point that out in press conferences? I'm no genius at football, but i'm pretty sure if you keep publicly telling your players that they are crap, they're gonna start playing worse. Just man up. You're not doing what you need to do to motivate your players to play outside of themselves. You got lucky in the first 3 games with the player out to prove a point from last year... that fire is gone, maybe too cocky after the huge ND game?
I just want to see him man up and say - we have been out coached this year.
By out-coached do you mean out rock-paper-scissored? That's not it... we have awesome schematic domination, they have awesome schematic domination. Once in awhile it happens. The Purdue on-side kick is one situation where Rich Rod had to stand back and just go 'well played, good sir', because there was nothing he could do to prevent that. It's entirely unexpected.
Do you mean strength and conditioning? No, can't be that either... the team has been Barwisized.
Do you mean learning to play your position? Well, you can't blame RR for the defense, he essentially hired a DC so he doesn't have to do so much with the defense. You can't really blame GERG either, because his schemes are doing pretty well, it's just missed assignments that are causing issues. So that lies to the two people who everyone has been bitching about, our LB coach and Secondary coach. That's rectifiable.
My only point of contention with RR's coaching is his off-the-field decisions. One in particular. The players are no longer required to live in the dorms freshman year. It may be that the separation from the rest of the student body is detrimental during that identity-forming freshman year.
I think this is excellent satire and not a serious post . . . right? Sorry for having to ask.
Yes and no. I'm super serious about the last point. And the second point, Barwis is sweet. The rest is 50/50.
"You got lucky in the first 3 games with the player out to prove a point from last year"
WTF are you talking about?
I agree with your point. But I don't think it necessary for him to concede being outcoached. Just to be encouraging about the kids on the team and saying something like he and the coaches have not yet found the way to bring those kids the success their effort deserves.
RR should drop acting like Wouk's fictional Lt. Commander Philip F. Queeg, the man who never made a mistake.
with Devin Gardner on the horizon, why would anyone want to get rid of RR?!!? Mich has the highest scoring offense in the B10. That will probably be the trend as long as RR is here. Unfortunately, Mich has the statistical opposite with regard to defense counter-productivity.
conveniently left out the commits that left after the amaker firing, including 5* alex legion. yet, another user name for you scooter???
Ehhh, I'm not sure if Alex Legion is a good point, no matter what example you are trying to make.
It's a misnomer to think that the offense and defense are completely separate entities. They are both the responsibility of Rodriguez, and Rodriguez's system puts a big onus on the defense.
Rodriguez is *not* the offensive coordinator -- he's the head coach. If productive offenses keep coming but the defenses continue to be more bad than the offenses are good, something will have to give.
Here's hoping we don't face that situation.
i've echoed most of the sentiments for many months now (ad nauseum). many other "reasonable" posters, here, have as well.
i would like to add that i think the program is just one year behind schedule (that is, my schedule). in year 1 i was just hoping we made a bowl, but we had disaster. the D was much worse than anyone could have predicted...and it continues. now in year 2, we are hoping for a bowl and may get there. we have 2 shots at it. the O has improved greatly.
i originally thought we would be in the 8 win range in year 2 then challenge for big 10 titles after that. i think we have a reasonable shot at 8 wins next year and 2011 a shot at the big10 title. in 2011 we should have a significant majority of upperclass starters, instead of the majority underclass right now.
to me, it seems completely crazy to get rid of this staff merely because we are one year behind schedule...uh er, my schedule.
if we don't show improvement in 2010 and have big 10 title expectations in 2011, than RR's job should be in jeopardy, and he knows that. but he has until 2011, unless 2010 is a complete disaster.
now, i will admit that i know little or nothing about any of the asst coaches. in fact, except for GERG and mcgee, i would not know if any of them passed me by on the street.
however, i supreme confidence in RR and his offensive assistants. the O has improved greatly in year 2.
the D however? i have confidence in GERG. i don't think you get to be a D coordinator on a super bowl champ team without knowing a few things.
my question is: if RR has confidence in GERG, shouldn't GERG have a say as to who his assistants are? i mean, wouldn't GERG know some assistants who know his schemes possibly better than our current coaches - RR's guys? or was GERG involved with the hiring of some of these guys? just throwing it out there.
The vast improvement in the offense alone is enough reason for at least patience. Next year we return anywhere from 16-19 starters, and another full year of practice and experience will be huge for Forcier. The biggest improvement for the team next year may be turnovers. Michigan has an awful turnover margin this year, which is the main thing holding them back. With a much more experienced team next year, the turnover margin will improve. If you look at this year's games, even with an awful defense, Michigan probably beats Iowa, competes with Penn State and the Illinois game is a whole different story. Great post Brian, until I am given a huge reason not to, I believe that Rich Rod does have this team moving in the right direction, maybe more slowly than originally thought, but he has until at least through 2011 in my book. Otherwise it would be at least two more years of total rebuilding.
Best tag eva.
Rich Rod has a SIX year contract. He ain't going nowheres. He was sweet wicked at WVU and will be more so here. Just needs time and playas.
Why, in TWIS, did you change the name of the "Tears of Unfathomable Sadness" award to "Tears of Infinite Sadness"? Licensing issues? Just curious, didn't want to start a thread to ask, add to the inbox, or comment over on the other blag.
The detractors are the same people that honk their horn at the fast food drive-thru. I'm not thrilled about our staff, but I think that's why GERG got the A-OK from Martin & Coleman. Rodriguez needed someone to evaluate his personnel on the coaching staff. Be interesting to see who he brings in in the off-season, but I don't think the program is broken...
When Rodriguez gets his recruits in and they compete for positions, I think we are going to have a very talented, deep football team.
Remember when we were all collectively shitting our pants over the coaching search debacle, and then all got so fucking giddy when Martin and Coleman pulled Rodriguez out of their ass?
The last two weeks feels like the proverbial shit in my pants again. I just can't wait to be giddy again. If Rodriguez pulls off a complete stunner against OSU, I'll bet 90% of everyone here will be back on the bandwagon. And before anyone goes off on me for suggesting Michigan will beat Ohio State, take a couple deep breaths. Most likely they won't. But, goddammit, I HOPE they do.
RE: Brian's post, I completely agree. If they improve to the 7-5 or 8-4 range, Rich Rod gets his 5 years (pending the NCAA road bump). If not, well, I, you, and Mary Sue reevaluate. Seems pretty logical and reasoned to me.
felt pretty giddy about
Notre Dame 34
Although that was kind of the point of my post. If they pull a win over OSU out of their asses, we'll all be sporting full working hardons. Not likely to happen, but a man can dream.
I respect your opinion and you have every right to vocalize it. I just think it's a bit naive to think that Michigan is suddenly going to be 9-3 or 10-2 if Rodriguez is fired on November 22. Coleman isn't going to make a public pronouncement backing Rodriguez and then fire him despite that statement. It just isn't going to happen. If next year is a mirror image of this one, I think she'll reevaluate. That was the point of my post. That and beating OSU, however unlikely, would still take a lot of the bad taste out of my mouth from this season. If you don't feel the same way about that, I'm not sure where to classify you in the Michigan fan base.
I'm totally fine with people coming on here stating their opinions, but allow me to say a couple things about yours:
1) We're not going to get Miles. Kelly is either going to be in Cincy or South Bend next year (and I'm hoping Cincy - as I'm from there - the Bearcats are my distant #2 team). Harbaugh maybe, but I think he's gonna end up in the NFL first, only to fail and come back to college. And if we were gonna get any of them, it WOULD be after next year. Also, if we were to bring in ANOTHER new system now, where the hell would that leave us?
2) Improvement is relative by definition. The first year was always slated as a rebuild from day one. Does that lessen the amount that it frustrates and saddens us? Probably not, but it's true nonetheless. That was a 3-9 season. It's hard to argue that we're not seeing improvement given the fact that we have 5 wins, not 3. That's a two game swing. The easy response to that is, "At that rate, we won't have a shot at anything major for another 2-3 years." and "Do you really think we should stick with RR through another two mediocre seasons after this?" The answer is no, but I don't expect that to happen. I expect a pretty good year next year, and an excellent one in 2011.
To say that you haven't seen improvement means you're either being disingenuous, jumping the gun, or you're just not good at math.
It's our defense that is regressing. Our offense has been relatively steady, and a major jump from last year.
I must've missed last year, the defense was the strength of our team you say?
Regarding your interpretation of "maybe," I meant that he may be available, and as I went on to say - I think he'll probably go to the NFL and fail first.
Regarding our defense, I think we're just as bad as we were at the beginning of the year. The 4-0 start fooled a lot of people, but 6 of our games we gave up 30+ points. The teams we gave up less than 30 to are: Eastern Michigan, Western Michigan, Michigan St. and Delaware St. 3 of those games are against subpar or sub-subpar opponents. MSU has been putting up pretty big numbers, so that's the only game where the defense bent but didn't break - check that - broke but didn't shatter against a decent opponent.
I don't know how much we've really regressed. I think it just looks worse because we're losing those games now.
What exactly do you have against Neil Diamond? Sure, he's no Jonas Brother, but did he kill your puppies or something?
I think trying to draw any type of conclusion on the success of what Beilein has done vs what RichRod has done is very difficult to do. In Basketball you can rely heavily on one player to get a team a lot further than they really are, I am not saying that was done at Michigan but it is completely different.
My main reason for wanting to give this coaching staff another year is we will have a QB that has been in the system for 2 years with the athletic ability to succeed. Now, next year if we do not see improvement and in my opinion that means Bowl Game then maybe it is time for us to look another direction but just as Brian said I have a hard time not believing this team won’t be better next year.
brandon graham. others have also improved: brown, van bergen, warren, roundtree, minor, martin. i could keep going.
want the same thing that is...
you asked for only one name. and i named several. and could name several more. no one is blind to the gaping holes at LB and safety. but that doesn't mean that virtually every other position player is/has improved.
All you had to do was cite the Cleveland Lebrons.
I'm curious what your proposed alternative is.
Let's say that RR is fired at the end of the season. Now what?
We need to hire a coach. RR got tons of abuse for breaking his contract - what quality head coach is currently available that's not under a contract? Moreover, is there a good coach not under contract who wants to work for a school that just booted their old coach to the curb after he had brought in only a single recruiting class? Propose one, please.
Second, will this coach be successful immediately? Soon? We lost a ton of players in the changeover from Carr to Rodriguez - what impact would this have on our existing class? Or the players that Rodriguez had brought in? Do we assume that most will want to play for a coach they didn't commit to, in a system that they didn't look to play in? What happens if we try to play power football with Odoms as a starting WR and Vincent Smith starting at tailback?
Many defensive problems have come from having 3 coordinator in 3 years. Will a 4th in 4 years improve the situation?
They're not conflicting. We're operating at 70% of out scholarships used now - how bad would we be if that number dropped to 60?
You advocated Saban - are we ready for 45 man recruiting classes, and booting current players off the team to make room?
I'm not sure if "being smaller" is what's reponsible for missed assignments, and walk-on's being out-talented,
You didn't, I'm getting the people I disagree with confused.
How many recruits do you think a new coach would pull in between the end of November and the final signing? How many do you think he'd lose?
A die hard fan is one that sticks with their team through thick and thin. This blog is full of them. In no way can you fire a coach after only 2 to 3 years. Remember all the fuss about ND firing Willingham after only 3 years? Calling for your coaches head as soon as things get tough does not show that you are a die hard fan but more of the band wagon type. Don't worry when RR turns things around there will still be a place on the wagon for you!
I would expect a wash or minimal net loss. We are still (despite the terrible piped-in music and losing team) Michigan. There are plenty of uncommitted studs (or those being recruited by Miles, Kelly, etc.) who would follow.
That passage is such delusional crap, and it's at the heart of why you think it would be no big deal to drop a coach a mere two years into his tenure. "A wash or minimal net loss" are you out of your fucking mind?
Wait, I think I know the answer. Yes, you are out of your fucking mind.
I am 100% with you and this is the argument I make to people. I first ask them who they'd rather have had; I always hear Les Miles. I agree somewhat- hell, I wanted Les Miles. It didn't work out. We got the next-best guy, IMO. If we sack RR now, who the FUCK is coming here to coach? Are you guys delusional? "Hey, they just fired a great coach after 2 years, yeah, I want to leave my school and go work there." Yeah, right. And all the people who are on the Brian Kelly bandwagon, come on. RR in 2007 = better resume than BK now. All I am saying is, if you want RR gone, I want an ALTERNATIVE who you think would actually TAKE THE JOB. The point is, there aren't that many good college football coaches out there, period. We have one of them now.
let me first say I agree with you. It would be folly to fire Rodriguez after his 2nd season. However, if I was an element of the fire Rich Rod crowd, what I would point to in my defense to counter the argument that hiring another coach now wouldset the program back even farther is the North Carolina basketball example.
The parallels and precedent are there. The legend, Dean Smith (Bo), retires. Replaced by a loyal assistant, Bill Guthridge (Mo and Lloyd in this tenuous example). Guthridge (Carr) retires. After publicly flirting with Roy Williams (Les Miles), North Carolina hires Matt Dougherty (Rich Rod, although not directly analagous because Dougherty was an NC player). After 3 years, things have SERIOUSLY regressed. Doughtery is not liked in the program. Dean Smith calls up Roy Williams (Miles) and says, essentially, "It's time to come home." Williams leaves an established program, Kansas (LSU), to come home to North Carolina.
Now, I make no bones about the fact that these are two COMPLETELY different scenerios and two vastly different sports. However, it is kind of scary how things are somewhat parallel. Only catch is, and this would NEVER happen, it would take Carr calling Miles in the Michigan scenerio because of Bo being gone. Anyway, that is a quick, admittedly not well thought out scenerio.
And with all that being said, I still think it would be suicide to fire Rich Rodriguez.
I must admit that I've had the same thought regarding Miles and/or Jim Harbaugh. The issue is that Carr and Miles do not get along to put it mildly so I don't think that phone call would ever happen.
It would be more than suicide to fire RR at this point, he has 4 years to turn the ship and now we should all just turn the page on this discussion as Brian has already done. I have no issue with standard criticsm, leveled wisely (why can't we tackle? can't we use Denard in more creative ways, even the RPS metric to a certain degree...) but some of the blather I'm reading here is so ridiculous I might have to go over to GBW to get perspective.
I'd say Brian Kelly's resume is more impressive, his work in D-2 was much better than RR's and he's on pace to be just as successful in the Big East. His time at Central is more proof of his talents as a head coach.
the paralles between JB and RR are quite similar. year 1 horrible. both have show improvement in year 2. both very young teams. the big difference is that JB's boys pulled out close wins against Savannah St, Indiana, Northwestern, etc. JB needed all of those wins to make the tourney.
RR, however, has lost some close games (granted we got ND and Indy). But if we pulled out a couple more winnable games: msu, iowa, purdue, even illinois, we would be giddy. we are just a couple plays short of being giddy, even with our pourous D.
you could argue that coaches help win close games, but most would agree that it's easier to turn around a team in basketball than football.
I dont care if you, others or any of these hyopthetical fans would not have tolerated Beilein had his second season ended up differently. He is still a great coach. Fact is, he was a few breaks going against him from putting up a second season like RR is now.
So, if IU hits more FTs and LLP hits one less second half trey vs Minny and with those comebacks wins turning into losses we end up out of the tournament, suddenly you would find that outcome unacceptable and not tolerable....or, as you imply, others would and would be right to feel that way?
I point this out because basically that's what is happening on the football field. A 6-6 w/ bowl win is about the same from a pure hoops equivalent of what the hoops team did last year, basically .500 against like foes with tourney win (bowl win).
Its not like Rodriguez is really that far off now from what JB did. It helped JB that he had the best player on the court everytime and maybe thats why the IU and Minny game does not get away from him. Rodriguez does not have that luxury, and the whole best player on the court thing is widely a hoops thing anyway, and the teams falls apart at shitty Illinois (like IU hoops) and cant make the clutch plays at the end and lose to an equal Purdue (Minny in hoops).
If this if later in his tenure, with his recruits as upperclassmen, I would have major problems. In year 2, with such a young team, hampered by six years of poor recruiting on defense, I'm not going to freak out about anything....other than feel sad that the kids arent getting the success yet out of all the hard work they're putting in.
Are you fucking kidding me? You dont see improvement?
They are scoring 12 more points per game this year than last year.
The offense could not cross the street last year. This year, its almost good enough to cover massive defensive issues and still get us wins.
We're 5-5. Easily could be two games better. But, the offense is led by a true freshmen and that's been costly throughout.
I said its almost been enough. Next year, everybody on offense will be in their third year with Rodriguez and for the first time ever they can grow with an experiened, playmaker QB in this offense. It will be enough to mask the D weaknesses.
The difference between 7-3 and 5-5 right now is an experienced QB.
If you're not having fun watching this offense grow and seeing improvement from where we were a year ago, then maybe you need to go do something different.
you always use an arbitrary cut-off. the O has improved greatly from LAST september.
Actually genious the saying is "offense wins games, defense wins championships." So yes you do hear the phrase "offense wins games"