What Happened to Ohio State Basketball? Comment Count

Alex Cook

mad thatta

More like Mad Thatta [via 11W]

For over a decade, Ohio State basketball was one of the most consistently successful programs in all of college basketball. Thad Matta has accomplished everything short of a national title during his tenure as the coach of the Buckeyes: his third OSU team, powered by freshmen phenoms Greg Oden and Mike Conley, made it to the national championship game; his Jared Sullinger-led 2011-12 team reached another Final Four; he’s captured five regular season Big Ten titles and four Big Ten Tournament titles; he’s won over 300 games in Columbus; he’s coached a national player of the year (h8 u, Evan Turner); he’s sent plenty of players to the NBA.

Few programs wouldn’t trade for Ohio State’s level of success since Matta took the job over before the 2004-05 season. He missed the NCAA Tournament that season because of self-imposed sanctions leveled as punishment for the transgressions of his predecessor, but he made it to the tournament in nine of the next ten seasons, winning the NIT the only time he was snubbed. Of the schools in the Big Ten, only Michigan State and Wisconsin (who both were helmed by legendary coaches who are/were the best in program history) can lay claim to a comparable level of success during that span.

Matta’s excellence and his consistency make Ohio State’s recent plunge into mediocrity all the more perplexing. JaQuan Lyle was recently arrested for getting drunk and punching a cop car – and OSU said that he’d quit the team over a month before. Given how the past few seasons have gone in Columbus, such an unceremonious departure didn’t even register as that much of a surprise. Sure, the manner in which Lyle’s Ohio State career ended was a bit unusual, but it was just the latest in a series of signals that the program is in steep decline.

In his first eleven seasons in Columbus, Matta finished no worse than 34th nationally according to Kenpom’s algorithm; in 2015-16, the Buckeyes were 76th, and last season, they were 73rd. (Somehow Michigan was a combined 0-2 against those teams, games that were debatably the worst losses Michigan suffered in each of those two seasons). Matta fielded his worst Ohio State team last season: it was the first time he finished with fewer than 20 wins and the first time finished under .500 in Big Ten play – after a Wednesday afternoon Big Ten Tournament loss to lowly Rutgers, they didn’t even make the NIT.

About a month and a half ago, Darius Bazley – a wing from Cincinnati and the #55 prospect in the 2018 class according to the 247 composite – decommitted from Ohio State. Some of his comments in the Columbus Dispatch were wonderfully candid: “Ohio State, they didn’t make the NCAA Tournament this year. They didn’t even make the NIT, which is unfortunate, but I looked into the recruits they have coming into next year, they didn’t look too good for the future. So I felt like when my class came in, yeah, we would’ve been OK, but good enough to make the tournament? I don’t know.”

From 2010 to 2013, Ohio State was a one- or two-seed in the NCAA Tournament and won the Big Ten regular season and Big Ten Tournament three times each over those four seasons. In 2017, an elite in-state prospect noted that they Didn’t Even Make The NIT as he decommitted and arguably the best player on the team randomly quit. What happened?

[Schadenfreude after the JUMP]

* * *

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Hmm, maybe Greg Paulus happened [Marc-Gregor Campredon – MGoBlog]

It more or less boils down to crootin. Matta’s 2006 class – which had three five stars (Oden, Conley, and Daequan Cook) as well as high four star David Lighty – was his best-ever in Columbus, and signaled Ohio State’s arrival as a national power. He kept it up for several years, typically acquiring better high school prospects than anyone else in the Big Ten. That level of talent simply isn’t there anymore. There are a lot of reasons, big and small, why Ohio State basketball fell off so dramatically, but two stand out in particular: ever since the standout 2010 class (which had Sullinger, Deshaun Thomas, and Aaron Craft), OSU’s recruiting outcomes have been mostly disappointing at best, and the 2015 class in particular – ranked 5th nationally in the Composite – was an utter disaster.

From 2011-2017, Matta has signed plenty of Top 100 prospects, but aside from D’Angelo Russell (a five-star who was too good and left after just one season in Columbus), the results were not great. The ten best recruits over that span behind Russell:

  • #29 (2014) Keita Bates-Diop: Swiss Army Knife wing has been an average starter, lost last season (his junior year) to injury.
  • #35 (2011) Shannon Scott: It really wasn’t smart to take a solid defense-first point guard instead of literally Trey Burke.
  • #41 (2015) Jaquan Lyle: Inexplicably quit the team after two seasons as the high-usage guy on below-average teams.
  • #44 (2011) LaQuinton Ross: Went pro after two seasons as the high-usage guy on above-average teams, now playing in Uruguay.
  • #46 (2011) Sam Thompson: Bouncy swingman never developed into much more than a role player who threw down insane dunks.
  • #49 (2015) Daniel Giddens: Transferred after one season as an unremarkable backup big man.
  • #52 (2011) Amir Williams: Detroit product became widely resented by OSU fans for his “conspicuous brand of sluggish and joyless basketball.”
  • #54 (2015) Austin Grandstaff: Played 114 unremarkable minutes before transferring, transferred from his next school before playing there.
  • #57 (2014) Jae’Sean Tate: As good as a very undersized power forward who can’t shoot can possibly be.
  • #61 (2013) Marc Loving: Shot 46% from three as a sophomore, but very meh otherwise, inefficient as a junior and senior.

Aside from Ross (who got buckets and didn’t do much else) and Tate (who, despite his obvious limitations, is legit) everyone has underachieved. Matta hasn’t discovered any under-the-radar gems either.

Passing on a plucky, undersized point guard from their own backyard (and the childhood best friend of their star player, no less) in the 2011 class was the harbinger of bad recruiting luck for the Buckeyes. Trey Burke eventually became the best player in college basketball; Ohio State’s 2011 class of Ross – Scott – Thompson – Williams was decent but they weren’t exceptional as upperclassmen, even though the class was ranked 6th nationally. It’s hard not to wonder if the 2011-12 team (which made the Final Four and lost by two to Kansas in the semifinal) would have won a title with Burke instead of Scott, even if they did meet Kentucky’s Anthony Davis team.

The 2014 class, also ranked 6th nationally, was better. D’Angelo Russell played at an All-American level in his only season as a Buckeye; OSU finished sixth in the Big Ten in that 2014-15 campaign and was a ten-seed in the NCAA Tournament. Russell was drafted second overall by the Los Angeles Lakers; he’s most notable for snitching on Nick “Swaggy P” Young and now the Lakers, who are likely eyeing Lonzo Ball in the upcoming draft, might try to trade him. He was a sensational addition by Thad Matta, but his impact was fleeting. Also in the 2014 class were Bates-Diop and Tate: both have shown that they can be quality role players on underwhelming teams and not much more.

* * *

The 2015 class was ranked fifth nationally. Jaquan Lyle was the highest-ranked at #41 overall. He was joined by four four-stars: tiny point guard AJ Harris, sharpshooter Austin Grandstaff, playmaking four Mickey Mitchell, and rim-protector Daniel Giddens. Grandstaff left Ohio State after playing a few games; Harris, Giddens, and Mitchell all departed after mediocre freshman seasons (Giddens was the only one to land at a power conference school); Lyle just left the program after two seasons – he was the only member of the class to make much of a positive impact on the floor.

Additionally, Trevor Thompson – a dominant rebounder and pretty good big man who transferred in from Virginia Tech – became eligible at the same time the 2015 class did; Thompson went pro and hired an agent with a year of eligibility remaining. He’s unlikely to be drafted.

Few programs can survive that type of attrition, but Matta’s two following classes – both of which were considerably off the lofty standard he set earlier in his career – provided little in the way of reinforcements. The 2016 class had four players, just one was a four star (Derek Funderburk) – and he redshirted last season, despite OSU’s lack of depth following Bates-Diop’s injury. The 2017 class yielded just two players: Kaleb Wesson, a four star big man who probably needs to shed a lot of weight to be effective, and undersized generic three star point guard Braxton Beverly.

That 2015 class was devastating, and Matta was unable to fill the open scholarships with quality players. It should have been a bedrock class for the program; it was mostly gone after one season and the only good player left after two. It’s still too early to tell with the 2016 class, but nobody stood out in particular as freshmen last season.

Right now Ohio State has just nine scholarship players. Keita Bates-Diop’s recovery from injury will be interesting, as he’s a versatile wing who could possibly fulfill his potential and become an All-Big Ten caliber as a senior after losing a season. It’s likelier that he will struggle with increased offensive responsibility. Jae’Sean Tate is a solid player who would be even better on a good team; he seems close to his ceiling.

Other than those two, the rest of the roster is bleak. The frontcourt: Micah Potter, Derek Funderburk, and Kaleb Wesson. The backcourt: Kam Williams, CJ Jackson, Andre Wesson, and Braxton Beverly. Theoretically Matta could still add a graduate transfer or take a flier on an uncommitted high school senior, but Lyle’s departure came at a tough time. This might be the squad for the Buckeyes.

* * *

There’s a great chance they’ll be a bottom three team in the Big Ten. Penn State has a promising sophomore class with Tony Carr, Lamar Stevens, and Mike Watkins; they’re trending in the opposite direction. Illinois will have a pretty bad roster, but they’ll have a great coach in Brad Underwood – surely an upgrade there. Nebraska is constantly blindsided by transfers and will struggle again. Rutgers is still Rutgers, but Steve Pikiell seems to be doing a good job there and the Scarlet Knights did just beat the Buckeyes in the Big Ten Tournament. If things break the wrong way, they could be the worst team in the league.

Matta finished in the Top 3 in Kenpom’s final rankings thrice at Ohio State. He built national contenders with elite talent – Greg Oden and Jared Sullinger were the best big man recruits in their respective classes and even guys like Deshaun Thomas and William Buford were lower-tier five stars. In the first half of his Ohio State tenure, Matta was one of the best recruiters in the country.

Starting with the 2011 class – which didn’t have Trey Burke, for some reason – it’s been poor. The highly-rated players haven’t panned out. He hasn’t found any players who have greatly exceeded their rankings. That he’s had to settle for second- and third-tier, mostly local prospects lately is as sure of a sign as any that his program is in its death throes. Darius Bazley ain’t coming back. Why would he?

They missed the NCAA Tournament in 2015-16. They missed the NIT in 2016-17. 2017-18 doesn’t look to be any better – in fact, taking last year’s team and subtracting Jaquan Lyle, Trevor Thompson, and Marc Loving (while adding Keita Bates-Diop and freshmen Derek Funderburk and Kaleb Wesson, both Top 100 prospects) gives you something that’s almost definitely worse than the mediocrity of the past two seasons.

The talent that defined Thad Matta’s tenacious mid-tenure teams is long gone, and it isn’t coming back. The current roster is very depleted, and two quality – though unspectacular – seniors can’t drag this team to the tournament by themselves. Basketball season is a long way away, but this Ohio State team should be bad. Let’s enjoy it.

Comments

Tater

May 19th, 2017 at 12:53 PM ^

I am definitely going to continue enjoying OSU's fall from basketball grace.  Here's what I think happened.

When Calipari stopped pretending UK wasn't buying players and just started scooping up everyone in the region, OSU stopped getting that one highly paid player who always took them "over the hump."  OSU has pretty much had one elite recruit a year taken away from them by UK because they are getting outbid and Calipari offers better NBA training.

As long as Calipari stays at UK, I don't see OSU getting better or returning to their formerly lofty status.

funkywolve

May 19th, 2017 at 1:01 PM ^

you mention, I don't think Matta is a very good coach when it comes to developing player's offensive skills.  Matta is a darn good defensive coach, but his teams generally struggle on the offensive end.  

dragonchild

May 19th, 2017 at 12:36 PM ^

Played any video games lately?  What do you think of a final boss that dies in one hit?

I want OSU to be good.  There's nothing better than to cap off a season with OSU's role being to boost our reputation.  The 1997 regular season couldn't have ended better.  What I'd rather not see again are coaches woefully unprepared for the rivalry (fixed, FINALLY) and OSU fans officiating The Game (fuck you, Delaney).  Beating OSU was never going to be easy even without non-players making their job easier.

But anyway, UM's struggles to beat OSU basketball are more baffling than OSU's decline.  It's tough to stay on top of college basketball unless you pull out all the ethical stops like they do in Appalachia.  But UM has lately played terrible games against terrible OSU teams, which is inexplicable.

Mmmm Hmmm

May 19th, 2017 at 12:32 PM ^

Any insight into the decline in recruiting? Loss of assistant coaches? Bad luck? Something else?

I get that three or more five stars in a class is rare for non-Kentucky schools, but it seems from this article that not only have there been fewer hits on highly ranked recruits (a separate issue) there have also been fewer very highly ranked recruits.

lbpeley

May 19th, 2017 at 12:33 PM ^

I enjoy osu and msu losses and hardships more than UM wins and well-being, I will need to re-evaluate my life. As it is, I immensely enjoy it when bad things happen to those programs and their fanbases.

Disclaimer: I'm only referring to things on the playing field/court/recruiting. Not the Nassar thing or recent assaults. 

Michigan4Life

May 19th, 2017 at 12:36 PM ^

more than OSU basketball.  I just don't care for OSU basketball since I don't view them as a Michgian rival in MBB, the way I view MSU and Indiana as Michigan's biggest rival.

ypsituckyboy

May 19th, 2017 at 12:47 PM ^

Indiana bball is similar to Michigan football in that respect. Many teams in the B1G view them as their rival, probably due to their great tradition, while I think they'd probably have a more limited set of teams for whom rivalry feelings are reciprocated. I'm not sure they view Michigan's bball team as a rival, at least outside of the generic rivalry sense that any B1G teams will have with each other.

uncle leo

May 19th, 2017 at 12:40 PM ^

Michigan's still been relatively medicore against them since 2010. I don't know the exact number, but I would have to say it's damn close to .500.

The home loss this year to them was BAD.

ypsituckyboy

May 19th, 2017 at 12:42 PM ^

Gonna be honest, I thought we were in for 3 years of butt whoopins at the hands of that 2015 recruiting class. Pretty sure I even posted the same, a few times, on this blog a few years back.

What a disaster that class was.

freejs

May 20th, 2017 at 9:47 PM ^

first time I saw that guy play, I couldn't believe the guy was hyped. 

Matta has had a knack recently for finding guys who just aren't nearly as good as their rankings. 

He didn't pan out badly - he was bad, period. 

The stuff he could get away with in HS was never going to fly against D1 CBB talent. 

Lots of attempted flash in his game, very little substance. 

 

93Grad

May 19th, 2017 at 12:45 PM ^

their decline has been really surprising given the sustained level of success Matta had.  Hoops can obviously be a little cyclical given the ammount of attrition and the impact a few recruits can have either way, but I wonder if this is due to something more systemic.

sarto1g

May 19th, 2017 at 12:55 PM ^

My OSU coworker attributes some of their lack of success to Matta having some medical issues with his foot that prevents him from traveling as much(Matta has mentioned the ailment in interviews before).  I'm not sure how much to read into it, but it's a conversation topic among OSU faithful.

It's not as though Matta forgot how to coach, which makes OSU's fall to mediocrity that much more confusing.  It seems like they have some issues with team chemistry and culture.  Maybe he needs a staff shakeup like Beilein had in 2011. 

steviebrownfor…

May 21st, 2017 at 6:24 AM ^

Just my opinion, but I don't think Matta has ever been that great of a coach. A good one, sure, and a great recruiter, but he always relied on talent over scheme. They've never had much of an identity as a program, but they went through some years where their recruits were really meeting/exceeding their expectations, so he'd end up with a team full of NBA talent. A ton of talent and decent coaching will take you far. Lately, they've had more Kam Chatman scenarios - highly touted recruits and talented players who just aren't getting it done on the court. They'll be back soon enough, as some of their recruits start to find their way. Too soon, probably..

midwest M fan

May 19th, 2017 at 1:13 PM ^

for the decline in recruiting for OSU.  2011 was the year Tressel was being investigated by the NCAA and I believe Yahoo Sports had a reporter digging around.  When that happened all the sudden the basketball recruiting dropped off.  Then Matta had some problems with his back and couldn't get out to recruit in person.

Ghost of Fritz…

May 19th, 2017 at 3:03 PM ^

says that OSU BBall went from great to terrible becasue recruiting fell off. 

Begs the question:  Why did recruiting fall off?

Your theory might be a big part of it.

Or maybe BBall recruiting just has a naturally high variance to it and Matta was unusualluy lucky earlier, then unusually unluck later (which then became a self-reinforcing equilibrium). 

Or maybe it is a very strong case of a HC that kind got to the point in his career where he was putting in 6% less effort, which shows up fast when others are putting in 111%.

Or maybe it is some combination of all three.

To just say 'recruiting fell off' is not that helpful.  The real question is exactly why did that happen? 

mGrowOld

May 19th, 2017 at 1:19 PM ^

And the media sharks are starting to go after him.  I've read at least two "I never thought I'd have to say this but maybe it's time for a change" articles in the northeast Ohio media recently and drumbeat is getting louder.  Unless Thad has an unexpectidly good season and makes the NCAAs I dont think he's coming back next season.

Hell even Doug Lesmeris, one of the biggest OSU hacks in the universe, wrote a negative article about the state of OSU basketball right now and sort-of blamed Motta.

uncle leo

May 19th, 2017 at 1:27 PM ^

But the fact that his teams were so damn good from 2010-2013 is biting him in the ass.

Even from 2013-2016, he had somewhat solid seasons:

25-10

24-11

21-14

That's basically what Michigan has doing more or less on average under Beilein.

I have never contended he's a great Xs and Os guy. But he's an absolutely terrific recruiter, and in college basketball, that's about 75 percent of the game. He just needs to find some better assistants to take more of a hold on the actual strategy.

StephenRKass

May 19th, 2017 at 2:26 PM ^

Actually no . . . the best possible outcome, from Michigan's perspective, would be for OSU to just barely make it into the NCAA tourney. If OSU has a mediocre season, but manages to be gritty and to blast all their non-con pancake games, and to win in the Big 10 enough at home and against fellow bottom dwellers, and to get in as an 8 or 9 seed, that'd be perfect. It wouldn't turn them around, it wouldn't bring recruits in, but it would keep Matta around for another year. Two more seasons with Matta at the helm, and that program could be sunk for another 5 - 10 years.

Romeowolv

May 19th, 2017 at 1:24 PM ^

Love the hoops content. 

 

Though I agree that Scott didn't live up to his ranking, or to Burke his counterpart, I still think Shannon Scott was a pretty damn good player. 

 

Its crazy given the 2014 and 2015 classes that they are in this position.

k1400

May 19th, 2017 at 1:32 PM ^

Ohio State basketball is like Michigan State football:  I just don't care unless we're playing them.

No wait.....that's a terrible lie.... Ohio State losing in anything is good for the human race so I take that back. 

Stringer Bell

May 19th, 2017 at 2:08 PM ^

Matta appears to be in desperate need of a change of scenery.  Gotta think a power 5 program would take a chance on a guy with his resume, especially since he's only 49.  He should probably take a year off, figure out whatever medical issues he has, then get back into it.  He should have a lot of good years in front of him, and it would be even better to watch him succeed elsewhere while OSU wallows at the bottom of the Big Ten for several years.

ijohnb

May 19th, 2017 at 2:42 PM ^

often think Beilein exercises too much control of what happens on the offensive end of the floor with his teams, with Matta I think it is the exact opposite.  They don't seem to run anything.  A trip down the floor for the Buckeyes consists of a couple of meaningless passes around half court, a post entry feed of some variety, a kick out to a wing who either penetrates and takes a questionable off the dribble shot or kicks to a mediocre 3 point shooter (Loving excluded) who jacks a semi-contested 3.  They don't seem to run any offense.  I don't know if that is lack of recrtuiting continuity or lack of offensive minds on the coaching staff, but their offensive scheme does not look up to par with other programs with similar talent.

In reply to by ijohnb

uncle leo

May 19th, 2017 at 2:44 PM ^

How that has changed in his tenure as he's gone on as the coach.

When they were doing well, especially in the 09-13 run, they had a very free-flowing offense. Had great interior threats, guys that could stretch the floor, they had a bit of everything. And they could ALWAYS out-athletic you on the glass. That was the one thing that pained me as a Michigan fan watching them during their run, they were just so freaking dominant on the glass and with overall athletic talent.

freejs

May 20th, 2017 at 9:57 PM ^

against the opposition. He has not been good getting more out of teams that don't have an Oden/Conley or Sullinger type advantage. I think the explanation above the UK is taking his highest level recruit in the pre-Calipari years is intriguing.