War On Students Over: Students Win
For a brief period a few years ago, there was some weirdo in the student section who would head up to the concessions at halftime, drop fifty bucks on hot dogs, return to his seat, wave his arms about, and chuck foil-clad meat missiles at the most enthusiastic folks around him. He was a hero. A couple games into this era, the students started a rhythmic chant for him.
"HOT. DOG. GUY."
"HOT. DOG. GUY."
This was fun! It was ours.
Michigan kicked him out of three consecutive games, until he stopped. Or stopped coming.
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It's time for another internet-wide fret about the kids and how they don't like the live football anymore, this one spawned by a Darren Rovell article. (I know, I know. This article is good and does not expose you to Rovell's personality.) In said article, there's the usual platter of disturbing stats…
Arizona sold 10,376 student season tickets this year. But 47.6 percent of those students, for an average game, didn't even show up.
This year, the University of Michigan drew the most fans of any school for the 16th year in a row. But 26 percent of students who paid for their tickets didn't show up at an average home game this season. That's an increase from 25 percent last year and 21 percent in 2011.
…fretful quotes…
"We have to solve this because we are talking about the season ticket-holders of tomorrow," said Oklahoma athletic director Joe Castiglione. "But interests and attitudes are changing so rapidly it's not easy to quickly identify what we need to do."
…and the hope that having wifi will fix everything, which it won't. (But don't let that stop you.)
While this is a nationwide problem, Rovell's article touches on Michigan specifically in a couple spots. He talks to a reasonable-sounding Michigan senior:
"I've kind of accepted that I'm not getting reception in and around Michigan Stadium," [Adam] Stillman said. "The problem is in all the other areas. There's nothing to do while I'm waiting on line for an hour to get into the stadium, and there's little added value from being in the stands watching the game."
I was pro-general admission when it was announced, but if its goal was to get more students to the game on time, it is a failed policy. The slight increase in no-shows is worse than it looks—possibly much worse. 2012's home schedule had one attraction, Michigan State. The other games were against Air Force, UMass, Illinois, Northwestern, and a 4-8 Iowa. 2013 had a night game against Notre Dame, Nebraska, and Ohio State. The only games after the season took a turn for the grim in East Lansing were those Nebraska and OSU games. What is the no-show rate going to be next year? I'd be shocked if Michigan doesn't crack 30%.
Is there anything that can be done about this? I mean, you're just not going to reach the people I had to deal about ten years ago who would wander in during the second quarter smelling like an overturned truck of Jack Daniels. Those folks seem to be proliferating, and the only thing you can do is figure out ways to punish them and drive them away.
The university's attempts to rein in bad actors with first the validation program and then general admission have made it difficult to flip student tickets and then made them unattractive to non-students. Tickets remain cheap enough that a large chunk of the students don't care about wasting that money. The result is large pockets of empty seats.
It's time to end the war on crappy student fans
![H-DrugsWin_400x400_2_jpg_400x400_upscale_q85[1]](https://mgoblog.com/sites/mgoblog.com/files/images/899b3d559f8d_A3F4/H-DrugsWin_400x400_2_jpg_400x400_upscale_q851.jpg "H-DrugsWin_400x400_2_jpg_400x400_upscale_q85[1]")
Yes, some of these 18-year-olds are intolerable. But fighting them doesn't do anything for you. The main thing it does is make things worse for the 75% who do show up. Michigan has continually raised the bar on the students at the same time their interest level is dropping. The results are, in retrospect, predictable.
The alternative is to offer carrots instead of sticks. Michigan tried that with the "HAIL" program, which was a failure in year one, totally revamped in year two, and is probably two or three years away from being quietly assassinated in an alley. This is because it offers you a t-shirt; it was always an attempt to give the appearance of a carrot without spending any money.
The right move is to be good to your fans. Michigan has gotten continually worse. Blasting an ad—and yes, it is an ad—for renting out the stadium or exhorting people to follow you on twitter is unpleasant. Having to scream at the person next to you to be heard is the kind of thing that makes you walk out of a restaurant. Michigan does that at every available opportunity. Ever-increasing prices, hour-long waits to get into the stadium, ushers who kick you out for throwing marshmallows… all of these things are a drag on your future revenue base.
It's time to be less focused on the next quarter's budget and more focused on building an environment that will induct the next generation into your cult.
Instead, the athletic department is more concerned with policing behavior that they cannot change. The current generation of suits spent their days at Michigan buying tickets for their kegs and throwing toilet paper willy-nilly. These days, a weirdo who buys hot dogs at halftime and tosses them around the section gets kicked out.
Football is supposed to be fun, and it's not really that much fun these days. The athletic department took the initiative to stomp on every student tradition they found 1% threatening. Now the students have taken the initiative away from the athletic department by not caring anymore. They win.
I'm not sure trying to make Michigan athletics the most awesome place in the country to see a game is going to work, but it's clear that something has to change if this slide is going to be arrested. Being mean didn't work. Try being nice. Meaningfully.
February 20th, 2014 at 1:43 PM ^
I think you are being kind of harsh. I see the student as complaining about the fact that they have to sit for hours before the game begins and they get bored. Seems reasonable.
As for the no value added to being at the game. Not all of us were into Michigan football games before we became freshmen and attended the game. Back in my day (lol) we could show up a half hour before game time, get to our seats and get comfortable before the opening kick off. That seemed reasonable and it felt good too... nowadays (lol) kids have to wait before waiting to wait. I could see how that would be frustrating. And no cell service means you can't watch other games while waiting or play a game or whatever it is that kids do these days...
for my part I have no interest in attending another game at our stadium because of comfort issues. I don't fit in the little square provided, I hate having to piss in trough, and honestly the cost isn't worth the reward when I can watch a game on my bigscreen at home, sit comfortabley, and follow other game day action... but that is just for my part...
jdon
February 20th, 2014 at 3:29 PM ^
It moved to a piss waterfall, and now us just a series of normal urinals.
BRING BACK THE PISS WATERFALL.
/whistles "Splash Waterfalls" for the next two hours.
February 20th, 2014 at 4:17 PM ^
The funny thing is Bill Martin, in all his cranky weirdness, actually tried to bring back the troughs when the renovations happened. Like, vocally went to bat for them. And was told it wasn't code anymore or some such thing. So, alas, gone forever.
Trough=the democratization of the pissing experience=America=freedom.
February 20th, 2014 at 1:52 PM ^
I think there are two sides to this coin:
a) the students have been brought up in a different world than us. The game is always on TV, and they have always been connected and entertained (and able to switch any moment they choose).
b) meanwhile the stadium policies have become ever more restricted, and laws and enforcement have as well.
Back in 1986 you could bring in thermoses (with interesting mixes) and toilet paper and beach balls and seat cushions. I cannot recall how much the hot dogs and sodas cost, but they are overpriced for students now for sure. We barely had computers, and didn't have cell phones. Connection with friends and acquaintances was the thing that was happening at the stadium.
So, they can't connect, they have to go underground to drink (and thus go overboard when then do), they can't bring anything in and cannot afford very much when they get in there, and now they have to arrive hours early and stand around and do nothing (because they can't connect or bring anything in or afford very much).
Personally I think they need to listen to students on GA - perhaps even have both: ticketed seats for those who want them is some sections, and full out first come, first serve (no cueing / waiting) in others. They need to set up a student rate food service offering in the stadium that is part of the meal plan. And they need WiFi.
Unfortunately, I think the canned music goes toward entertaining the students during down time. To me this quote is telling:
"One thing Clemson, Vanderbilt and Auburn all had in common was a crazy stadium atmosphere," Wolk said. "At Georgia? Traditional music and a PA announcer barely yelling 'Let's make some noise 'on third down."
So yeah, going back to just the traditions of the band and the announcer is not going to hit the mark with the young crowd. (It would be nice to know what they are doing at Clemson, Vanderbilt and Auburn.)
Finally, how hard can it be to compete with most TV broadcast crews? Use the bloody mega-scoreboards for meaningful replays and analysis.
Honestly, having observed the student section at both a basketball (UMass-Lowell) game and a football game (Nebraska) this past year, it appears to me that they are more into (and are having more fun at) the basketball games. This my be true for Hockey as well.
February 20th, 2014 at 2:08 PM ^
Hockey games are waaaayyyyyyyyyy more fun than basketball games, its not close at all
February 20th, 2014 at 3:21 PM ^
and neither was the case in 1986.
It sure appears that the football stadium experience has become more and more resctrictive, and less and less engaging.
February 20th, 2014 at 1:08 PM ^
The games have to be fun. Yes, someone could be hurt from throwing hot dogs and marshmallows. You can't make any place 100% safe. Let people have their fun fergodsakes.
February 20th, 2014 at 1:10 PM ^
The marshmallows aren't allowed because they could melt on the FieldTurf. That ban goes back a decade, well before we had student attendance issues.
February 20th, 2014 at 1:34 PM ^
I don't remember which game exactly, but in 96 or 97 the cameraman on the elevated tower was getting pelted with marshmallows so badly that someone finally hit him with a hot dog and he jumped down to go after someone in the crowd. I believe the plastic shields made their introduction shortly after that. I also believe the marshmallow ban was on at that time, as I remember sneaking them in under my shirt.
February 20th, 2014 at 3:28 PM ^
Ushers started cracking down on the marshmallows in the '90s, but people still snuck them in - I was on campus in the late '90s/early '00s, and remember getting pelted with them. The big change happened when we went to FieldTurf. There was a public campaign (in which Lloyd Carr participated) to stop the marshmallow-throwing. After that, I never saw marshmallows again saw them in the student section.
February 20th, 2014 at 6:12 PM ^
Pretty sure that camera guy got hit by a full cup of pop. He just went completely apeshit and actually almost hurt himself jumping down from the camera stand; he was still pretty high in the air and he had to duck under the safety bar that was on the thing. His dismount was awkward as hell. I don't know what he expected to be able to do since there was a big wall there. I want to say it was 97 because I had row 8s in 26 that year and was close enough to see much of what was going on.
The plastic shield came the very next game, I think. People still made an effort to arc stuff over the shield and hit the guy.
February 20th, 2014 at 1:46 PM ^
The marshmallows aren't allowed because they could melt on the FieldTurf. That ban goes back a decade, well before we had student attendance issues.
jmblue, you're purposefully ignoring the greater point.
Of course it is more fun to be in the stadium than in front of a TV. But as you are trying to ignore in your comments, it is not that simple. When you add in the diminishing of the MMB in favor of "Sweet Caroline," the hours of waiting in line, the fucked up GA that's not really GA, and the price, the price, the price, then suddenly it is a debate that is worth having. In fact, even most diehards (US! Those on this board!) find the home experience to be the better one.
February 20th, 2014 at 2:03 PM ^
Actually, if you read my comment above, I agree with most of what Brian wrote, so no, I'm not "purposely ignoring" anything. But the marshmallow ban isn't going to be overturned.
I think a lot of people here are looking for simplistic solutions - just overturn policy X or Y, and it'll be fine - when the problem seems to be pretty deep and nationwide.
February 20th, 2014 at 2:11 PM ^
My point was that we all know that marshmellows have been banned forever. The major point is not marshmellows, it is creating a fun gameday experience.
Just because "it's happening everywhere" doesn't mean Michigan has totally made the issue worse over the last 5 years. Because they have. And by "they" I mean Dave Brandon and his team of whomever that is in charge of every bad decision that has been made regarding the gameday experience.
February 20th, 2014 at 2:17 PM ^
lol. for the two games a year it is actually hot and sunny
February 20th, 2014 at 7:04 PM ^
Another reason to go back to grass...
February 20th, 2014 at 1:10 PM ^
From afar, it seems like the athletic department is plagued with having the warring goals of attracting students (who, bless them, want some chaos and character) and making Michigan Stadium into something like most (all?) of the professional stadiums built in the last ten years, where you can listen to terrible pop music, buy really expensive and purportedly high-end food, and enjoy an atmosphere only slight less antiseptic than a dentist's office.
Not being in AA, I don't always understand the dislike some have of the AD under Brandon, but this post helps illustrate why people are unhappy. The Hot Dog Guy was the kind of person any business (if you want to think of it that way) should be thrilled to have. He's spending money and enhancing the experience of other tickholders while costing the AD absolutely nothing in return. Stopping him from spreading his love of Michigan football, Michigan fans, and leftover pig bits makes no sense.
February 20th, 2014 at 1:17 PM ^
February 20th, 2014 at 1:19 PM ^
*Free Free Hot Dog Man
February 20th, 2014 at 1:50 PM ^
LET HIM STAY! LET HIM STAY!
(boooooooooooooooooo)
February 20th, 2014 at 1:45 PM ^
...and yet there are numerous examples of Stadiums/Venues firing hot dog/beer/chips/cotton candy vendors that put that extra bit of pizazz to their job which make them memorable. Instead it's just monotone voices hawking their wares, none distinguisable from the other.
I am not even 30 and I lament that my childhood experience is going to be so radically different than any future children I may have.
February 20th, 2014 at 1:10 PM ^
Are you trying to use general seating as an example of how DB and the "suits" are trying to squeeze out the fun of a gameday experience? That's silly and not true for a bunch of reasons:
1. There are plenty of example of fantastic gameday experiences and ravenous fanbases who do employ general seating (e.g. Wisconsin). It's a completely agonstic offering, it doesn't make an overall experience better or worse, it's just a way to seat people
2. The issues you mention around general seating are easily fixable. If you've ever built a company or rolled out a big new concept in any capacity, you know it takes several iterations to tweak and fine-tune. Nothing you've mentioned is a systematic problem.
3. Occam's Razor...the biggest reason students aren't interested is because we have a crappy football team. You can run through all the mental gymnastic you want to try to blame DB and all the fun-sucking things he does, but it's just not true. You win games, you put a good product on the field, and students will come en masse. THat's always been the case.
February 20th, 2014 at 1:15 PM ^
They're trying to increase actual show-on-time attendance (which is good), but in doing so they are making life harder for people who actually attend, and they aren't solving the problem they're trying to solve.
At the same time, they're being dicks about things that people enjoy.
February 20th, 2014 at 1:24 PM ^
I'm sure year over year attendance increases from 1969 through the mid 1970s had a lot more to do with winning than it did blowing confetti into the bowl, and rolls of TP and beach balls being thrown around.
I missed about twenty years of live football, largely because I was out of the country, but the biggest difference between 1978 and 1998 was how sanitized of fun Michigan Stadium had become, yet the stadium remained packed to the gills, to include the student section.
Winning creates its own positive atmosphere that acts as a magnet drawing people in like so many iron filings.
February 20th, 2014 at 1:55 PM ^
As a Wisconsin student season ticket holder, I cannot understand why Michigan is having such problems with General Admission. The problem you guys are having, from what i can gather, are based on really long lines forcing students to spend their pregame standing in line so that they can get into a stadium where they can continue standing for over three hours, rather than spending their pregame drinking with their friends. At Wisconsin, our General Admission works because I can count on leaving a party at 10:45 and still making to my seat before kickoff (for 11 AM kickoffs). To me the answer seems to be as simple as coming up with a system to get students into the stadium faster. Is there only one person scanning tickets? Or why does it take so long? There is never a line to get into the Camp Randall unless you're just one of the 50 students waiting before the gates open to get in the front row.
February 20th, 2014 at 2:04 PM ^
I think one of the issues was that people assumed you needed to be in line to get "good" seats. Where "good" was poorly defined. As you said, only 50 or so people get front row and a lot of Michigan students were initially upset because they waited 4 years for their "good" seats.
However, then GA was implemented in such a clusterfuck way that everyone had to wait. I don't know how they screwed that up.
If people are in line 1.5 hours before kick, why aren't they in their seats? Theoretically, as you mention, it should lessen the time spent in lines since so many people get in an hour early. But leave it to Michigan Stadium logistics to screw that up.
February 21st, 2014 at 10:20 AM ^
For one, they instituted a students only (aka 'cattle') gate that all the slaughter must walk through to enter the stadium. Instead of entering in through the path of least resistance and whatever entrance you are closest to, you're instead required to enter the same damn gate through which every other student is simultaneously attempting to enter.
February 20th, 2014 at 2:03 PM ^
I definitely thinking the lack of winning is a factor, but lets not ignore the proliferation in other options for people that didn't exist even 10 years ago. I mean, in 2003 you didn't have facebook, twitter, buzzfeed, etc., "high-tech" phones were clamshells and early-generation Blackberrys and Palms, we were still on the first generation of the mobile MP3 players, and nobody had HD cameras let alone HD TVs to stream events to them. Watch some old youtube clips of games from the 80s and you can barely make out the players.
Times were way different, and yeah you had more options than in the 1980s and 1990s, but it was still relatively limited.
Today, people have more options, and while winning may keep them in the stands for a bit, I think all sports are going to struggle with diminishing attendance save for the mega events. If anything, I could see a change in pricing that basically gouges people for UTL and the rivalries and gives away the other games.
February 20th, 2014 at 3:16 PM ^
It isn't that simple. We were winning in 2011 and there were still empty seats.
February 20th, 2014 at 4:14 PM ^
February 20th, 2014 at 1:12 PM ^
...hot dogs ot strangers is clearly an act of terrorism. That guy is probably in guantanomo by now.
February 20th, 2014 at 1:13 PM ^
As an aside, I think the easiest solution to this is obviously winning. What have the current students witnessed in regards to UM football? Just disappointment and disaster. That does not build fanatical loyalty. Winning solves a lot.
February 20th, 2014 at 1:19 PM ^
You think Brandon has run his course of usefullness already? Do you complain there's nothing to do while you stand in line for an hour.
February 20th, 2014 at 1:39 PM ^
I don't complain about anything in line because I don't go to games anymore. But I do see the football program with image issues, I see skyrocketing prices (for everything), terrible scheduling, and I see a hell of a lot of empty seats on the TV. I also see image problems surrounding the football programs and bad PR control when something stupid happens. This is stuff that falls on the AD. Now he's not all bad, but football is the face of the UM athletic department, and needs special care. That said, I really think winning will solve most of the problems.
February 20th, 2014 at 1:14 PM ^
It's gotten to the point for me where I just don't care anymore. The Athletic Department is going to do what they want, no matter what the feedback from students, alumni, general fans, etc. may be. They have a vision. It's flawed, but dammit, they're going to put enough marketing staffers on it to make it work. Go ahead and fill out the survey, keep those cards and letters coming, but they know better than we do. We're the ATM machine, nothing more, nothing less.
In other words, I'm done tilting at windmills. Going to Michigan Stadium isn't half the fun it was ten years ago, so my incentive to drop everything to get to the stadium--just like the students--is dwindling. When they're losing people like me, and they're losing a quarter of the student ticket holders every game, it makes you wonder just who they're targeting with this garbage.
February 20th, 2014 at 1:20 PM ^
"casual families of four from Grand Rapids".
February 20th, 2014 at 1:45 PM ^
Making the games more like minor league baseball games might make them more attractive to the casual fan, but the problem I see is that they are still charging die hard prices. If I'm a casual family of four from Grand Rapids, why would I pay several arms and legs to take my family to a Michigan football game when I can get the minor league baseball experience at a minor league baseball game for a fraction of the price? In the mean time they are making the games less attractive to the actual die hards to the point where they are having second thoughts about paying die hard prices too. It's not surprising watching on TV is becoming so attractive to lots of people.
February 20th, 2014 at 5:44 PM ^
I think it's obvious who David Brandon truly cares about: the people in his tax bracket who sit in the suites. You know, the J. Ira Harrises and Stephen H. Rosses of the world who have their names plastered all over the program now. The rest of the hoi polloi in the stadium are nothing but ATMs for the athletic department, as Brian so aptly and accurately described it. When you get to the point of attempting to allow only rented seat cushions, it's blindingly obvious how the athletic department views Michigan football fans.
Don Canham was a very successful businessman in his own right, but it was in part of the business world that was very, very different from Brandon's. Canham built and owned his own firms, but they were not huge corporations. He had an organically-acquired and grass-roots-oriented feel for what was required to get people into the stadium and what would keep them there. By contrast, Brandon is entirely a creature of the large corporate world, and has undoubtedly been surrounded by yes-men and brown-nosers wherever he's been, including at Michigan.
It's mind-boggling to me that the AD was faced with a problem—large numbers of no-shows in the student section—with a simple, obvious, and quick solution: immediately cut back the number of tickets allotted to the students by 25%, and make those tickets available to the general fan public. It wouldn't require the idiotic rejiggering of seating priorities, wouldn't have required the brain-dead method of assigning seats, and wouldn't have resulted in students waiting in line for an hour just to get in the fucking stadium. Don Canham would have understood that he was faced with declining demand in one sector, and would have adjusted his supply to that sector accordingly. He wouldn't have instituted policies that would decrease demand even further.
February 20th, 2014 at 1:14 PM ^
I think this is obvious, but it never really occurred to me before. I'm not sure what that says about me.
But, I agree with this completely. I used to get pissed at my wife for falling asleep when we drove home from things at night. I felt like she should stay up and talk to me or keep me awake. The reality is that she falls asleep immediately whenever she gets in a car and no amount brooding from me was going to make any difference. If I focus on having fun at whatever we do and then having a peaceful drive listening to whatever I want, everyone wins.
Here's my short list to getting students to show up more.
1. Revert to your 1990 policy, full scale. Assign seats, sell your tickets to whoever you want. Kick someone out if they are fighting or causing a real distubrance, but that's it.
2. Fill every time out with highlights from other games. MSU and OSU do it, it can't be that hard.
3. Show as many replays (at a wide view) as you can fit in between plays. It's allowed now, so do it. Get rid of the stupid fan cam. No one wants to watch some idiot wave and yell go blue when the alternative is seeing the last play over again.
February 20th, 2014 at 3:44 PM ^
We're 19-2 over the last 3 years at home. Stop yelling HURR DURR WIN GAMEZ ITZ DAT SIMPLE. It's not. The Michigan football gameday is significantly different and not in a good way.
February 20th, 2014 at 1:31 PM ^
When I was an undergrad (class of '82), the student section at Michigan Stadium resembled the barbarian horde in the Capital One credit card commercials. It was not dangerous in any meaningful sense, but it was totally out of control. It was... college. We would not have missed a game for our lives, not just because of Michigan football but because of the college vibe to the stadium. I get the feeling that if the entire student body from the late 70's/80's was teleported to Michigan Stadium today, we would all be immediately arrested.
February 20th, 2014 at 9:24 PM ^
February 20th, 2014 at 1:17 PM ^
There is a lot to be said for letting the fans get a little rowdy. Soccer never has problems filling the stands. There are riots, and deaths, and what not, but the stands are always full!
February 20th, 2014 at 1:19 PM ^
Things that Might Help
- Creating Offical Student Section-Type Organization (PSU: Paternoville. Ohio St: Block O. Nebraska: Sea of Red.) with benefits for members, camping out for big games. etc. Nothing fosters a sense of camaderie like camping out for games. See Duke's Cameron Crazies.
- Better home games. No way around it.
- Lower the effing season ticket prices.
- Having a winning team. This one's up to Hoke. From 2007 on, the product on the field has been streaky to terrible (save 2011).
February 20th, 2014 at 1:25 PM ^
JimBob, this isn't to call you out, but your post triggered something. Trying to control all of the things you highlight is not sustainable. Looking at it this way does not address the core issue. The core issue is people wanting to be at the game regardless of the quality of opponent or the quality of team. That is done through letting the students have an environment they enjoy being at.
I'll try to find the stats because looking at Duke's attendance at baskeball games the one year Coach K was out and they finished @ .500 and didn't make the tourney would be a good inidcator of how strongly the schedule and teams winning truly impact attendance.
February 20th, 2014 at 1:30 PM ^
I've read that Duke basketball student attendance is actually down as well. There is a general nationwide trend toward lower student attendance at sporting events. Athletic departments may be swimming against the current on this.
February 20th, 2014 at 1:39 PM ^
I was thinking of the one specifc season but when I looked for the attendance stats, I found a couple articles about this recent trend. In reading the articles one of the areas of speculation as to why attendance is declining is becuase the atmosphere has become too organized and planned versus the earlier days when it was organic. The other things discussed here are pointed out as well: why go to the game when you can watch on a giant HD TV in the dorm, poor quality, best games are played at neurtal sites, etc, but I found it interesting they specifically did call out fan expereince.
February 20th, 2014 at 7:02 PM ^
Where is the article about atmosphere being too organized and planned?
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