Various Hoke Items Comment Count

Brian

hokeObligatory @ right via HSR.

Coaching bits. Rocky Long is officially the new head coach at SDSU, so Michigan will need a new DC. He will bring his strength coach Aaron Wellman, so kiss Barwis goodbye. ETA before he's hired at Pitt: six seconds.

Who did what who with what and the when. I have a request in for a rundown of the Borges years at Auburn with a good friend who is the world's #1 Auburn fan, but they sort of just won a national championship so that might take a little bit. Over at Maize 'n' Brew they have a breakdown of Hoke's years at Ball State from a BSU alum. On offense they started off with a "disaster" of a pro-style offense that got the first coordinator canned, whereupon Stan Parrish was brought in:

Coach Parrish junked the previous offensive scheme almost completely. He still employed two tight ends due to Steinhaus and Darius Hill being two of the biggest weapons on the offense, but also used a lot more three and four wide out formations and the fullback ceased to exist in the offense. Ball State ran a balanced, one back attack with Joey Lynch and the Nate Davis excelling at quarterback, MiQuale Lewis at running back, and Dante Love at wide receiver/running back/quarterback.

So Hoke has some flexibility when it's clear that whatever you want to do isn't actually working, but… yeah, seems like the default impulse is to line 'em up and waggle them three times a game.

On defense, Hoke kept the same guy through his six years but "was the defacto defensive coordinator" by the end of his tenure because Smith was kind of not so good. They moved from the 4-3 under that Greg Robinson actually knows how to run to a Big Ten default 4-3:

For the first four years of Coach Hoke's tenure, Ball State ran a defense that the media mostly called a 3-4 defense, but I think would be more accurately described as a 4-3 under defense. The last two seasons, when Coach Hoke was basically running the defense, Ball State mostly used the 4-3 defense, although the 4-3 under defense was also still used.

Hoke grabbed Long at SDSU, obviously. Depending on who you talk to Long invented the 3-3-5, which is what the Aztecs ran. Flexibility there, though not a whole lot of success. Even in the epic Ball State year that got him out of the MAC, the Cardinals got bombed for 45 points in their two year-ending losses. This year's SDSU team was better on offense by every metric than defense. For a "defensive-minded" coach his success seems based on having a couple quarterbacks that were pretty good.

Fluffwar 3000. Anyone doubting the media 180 should have listened to the press conference, wherein questions were gently peeled by the assembled masses and placed in the most pleasing spot on Hoke's tongue, whereupon they dissolved in a haze of gruff footbaw talk. I think I heard someone say "he's dreamy" at one point. This will be annoying for people irritated at the way Rodriguez was treated but is an asset for the program. Everything is black or white, you see.

We should hold a competition for most Charmin-soft headline over the next six months. Candidates so far:

And a candidate for most least correct:

These are all exactly what you'd expect, so there's no need to read any of them. Our brief period as a rogue program has ended, and the worst-case outcome of the next few years in the media is a bunch of clucking at fans who aren't satisfied with how much better Brady Hoke's record is than Rich Rodriguez.

Save Drew Sharp, of course. He was the lone guy to fire off a negative question amongst the general fawning, that directed at Michigan's aspiration to win conference championships instead of national ones. I wonder if he asks his wife why she didn't aspire to marry a human being instead of Marvin the Paranoid Android.

The truth. Michigan's situation is odd. They are a 7-6 team with pretty good yardage numbers that has an easier schedule next year and a boatload of returning starters, so they should be better, possibly a good bit better. But they're transitioning coaches and if Denard stays are probably going to make an awkward transition in offense exactly at the point where this year's crater of a recruiting class will start hurting them badly. So Lamarr Woodley's right:

“I mean, hopefully they’ll look good next year, but it will probably take a while for them to be adjusted,” he said. “I don’t want to go into that Michigan State situation, where they’re hiring and firing.

“We have to stick behind coach Hoke and give him time to bring in the guys he needs for his formula."

Michigan will have to be patient, because a tenure much like Charlie Weis's is a strong possibility: good results early, falloff once this class and the last one come home to roost, many grumbles about early success being vapor. Michigan will (should?) have an upperclass Devin Gardner instead of freshman Jimmah and some semblance of an offensive line, so the rough patch might not be awful. It's likely to come.

(Yes, exactly zero players said things like this for Rodriguez.)

The upside. I think this is both praise and condemnation:

Spoke to a bunch of coaches here in Dallas at AFCA who think Brady Hoke will do well at Michigan. They kept using the word "solid" a lot.

Calling a coach "solid" is like calling a girl cute. Also, this

@mgoblog You may have gotten your Dantonio, for whatever that's worth.

…is the exact same thing. It's hard to envision Hoke not having the same sort of dismal record against the USCs of the world if he's going to rely on recruiting nowhere near as well and out-executing, as Michigan State found out the hard way against Alabama.

Meet the Drew Sharp of San Diego. Brady Hoke had been so openly coveting the Michigan job that even San Diego State's athletic director was all like "he gone," but there is a lone wacko out there willing to point and scream "Rodriguez":

Hoke never purchased a home in San Diego. He rented in La Jolla. He wasn’t staying here forever, and even he no doubt is surprised by how fast this happened. He hadn’t done much of anything, which he admits.

But in the end, it wasn’t so much betrayal as it was deception. It’s hard to say San Diego State is better off today, but if Brady Hoke couldn’t be stand-up about this thing, sneaking around in college football’s increasing shadows, maybe the school’s better off.

A witch! Burn her!

At least there's that. The Mathlete's PAN metrics are pretty easy to understand ratings that go into more detail than wins and losses and as the coaching search progressed he threw up numbers for most of Michigan's candidates. The Hoke graphs are the single most encouraging thing I've seen about the hire, as it does show almost constant improvement across eight years. Ball State, with Hoke in blue:

hoke-1

San Diego State, with Hoke in maize:

hoke-2

Arguing about how fast the improvement happened at Ball State is secondary to the fact that it did improve consistently, though I tend to hold the post-Hoke implosion against him since I'd rather see a smoother glide path to incompetence as the program you put together gradually falls apart. That looks like "Nate Davis graduated so let's GTFO."

This goes here.

Etc.: Guy who won right to attend press conference is a Michigan engineer who wrote a script to enter him millions of times. Michigan engineers: good. Guys who program MGoBlue.com: not Michigan engineers. DocSat: "After three years of attempting to transition out of that mindset into something smaller, faster, sleeker and newer, Hoke is a sign that the Wolverines have declared defeat and decided to turn back home. That will make a lot people happy, but only if the wins eventually follow."

Comments

DPUblue

January 12th, 2011 at 3:49 PM ^

Oh my god this could not be more true, which made me sick for Rodriguez's mental health.  I actually think 90% of the local reporters started off their question with "Welcome Back, Coach."  He received a warm reception that I only wish was even slightly given to Rod. 

Hoke's Sharp response was priceless.  Sharp seemed to think that Hoke didn't understand what he meant, but Brady turned him upside down and basically said: "Hey, Dumbass...I know what you mean, and I've got enough rings to form brass knuckles to punch your idiot lights out.  So grab a Coke and a smile, and shut the f*** up."

BH sure gives an entertaining press conference. 

bronxblue

January 12th, 2011 at 3:48 PM ^

Happy that at least the media won't be killing Hoke from day 1 like they did with RR, but I totally thought of Dantonio when they announced Hoke.  He'll probably be better because UM recruits better, but I fully expect UM to, at best, look like Wiscy - good against other B1G teams, but hammered against schools that can exploit the whole "ManBALL" game.  Still, I want him to win so badly just so that UM will stop being a national punchline.

As for the former players rallying around him, I honestly could care less at this point.  It's great that they are happy with the hire, but many of them didn't support the program under RR for whatever reason, and so I question their judgment beyond "he's more like Carr than RR."  I know they've done far more for the University than I probably ever will, but they can just keep their opinions to themselves at this point.

qed

January 12th, 2011 at 3:52 PM ^

Not to be political and not taking sides: but doesn't this remind you of Obama/McCain in '08.  When Obama came in everyone loved him in the press.  Even his opponents got caught in the hoopla of the inauguration.  I noticed today several people on the MgoBoard falling for Hoke because of a ra ra speech.  I have no problem with Hoke (just Brandon), but I find it funny how quickly people start changing their mind when nothing substantive good or bad has happened.

SZHough

January 12th, 2011 at 3:52 PM ^

I was really coveting Dan Mullen after I did some follow-up research on him after hearing about him on here. I'm not thrilled with the Hoke hire but hope to be proven wrong.

The most disappointing aspect of the hire for me was the return to MANBALL. You have one of the most exciting players in the country, you're a defensive coach, why go back to what wasn't working? What hurts about keeping some continuity on what was a pretty good offense?

Returning to MANBALL seems to be a capitulation that Michigan's highest ambitions aren't a National Title but to win the B1G and beat OSU 30% of the time. Seems like the majority of the elite programs in this country run some sort of spread/spread-option offense.

Yale Van Dyne Fan

January 12th, 2011 at 3:59 PM ^

...looked pretty good in the Outback Bowl game in which a Michigan team previously beaten by Appalachian State and Oregon drilled a pretty damn good Florida team. MANBALL has worked pretty well for Saban at Alabama. I think we get too caught up with style and scheme. Lloyd's last few Michigan teams nearly beat excellent Texas and USC teams but couldn't finish. Maybe you could argue the play-calling and halftime adjustments got a little stagnant, but was there really ever a need to totally blow everything up? Just give me a physical, buttoned-up, well-prepared football team whether it's running the spread or a two-TE set.

SZHough

January 12th, 2011 at 4:32 PM ^

Lloyd's last few Michigan teams nearly beat excellent Texas and USC teams but couldn't finish.

 

I was reminded of those games when I watched the OSU-Arkansas game. It seemed like Michigan just got worn out and didn't have the conditioning to hang with Texas and USC.

JMK

January 12th, 2011 at 4:58 PM ^

Lloyd Carr curled up in the fetal position west of the Mississippi.  When he settled for a FG to go up by 10 on Texas, I told my wife, "It's over, we're going to lose."  And lose we did.  For some reason, Lloyd only opened up the offense in Florida.  (And don't talk to me about the 1997 Rose Bowl.  Did you notice any difference in the offense in the 1st and 2d halves?  1st half = Lloyd Ball = losing.  2d half = throwing = winning.)

WolverineRage

January 12th, 2011 at 5:22 PM ^

The win against the Florida Tebow's was, IMO, the biggest indictment on why Lloyd needed to go.

 

We all (I assume) love Tom Brady and that he is from Michigan, but I will never dodge that nagging question of "What we could've done with him if we had any creativity?"  I realize the Florida game was Henne, but Brady is another example of my overall point.

 

Granted we recovered some players from injury just in time for that game, but still.  We all knew we had all this fantastic talent and, when the offense got creative, we took it to a fairly well respected SEC team.

 

I think what we all hoped for with Rich Rod and now is a coach that would come in and leverage our name brand into a true national power capable of beating OSU more than once in a 10 year span.

 

In 5-6 years when all things will be equal due to the complete switch over to Hoke's recruits, then we will be able to pass judgement.  I think what Hoke has over Rich Rod is that he "get's it".  He won't upset the apple cart on any of our hallowed traditions (#1 Jersey, etc...) and will push for top performance in the rivalry games (BTW, I want our new acronym for tOSU to be TSIO).  However, if we are still losing in bowl games and not sniffing NC's or beating TSIO, then, I'm out and we need a whole sale change with presumably Lloyd not running things behind the scenes anymore.

 

Until then, Go Hoke and as always, GO BLUE!!!

TheMadGrasser

January 12th, 2011 at 3:57 PM ^

I can tell you that Barwis will not be hired at Pitt. Buddy Morris has been the S/C coach there for a long time and is a legend. Much more respected that Barwis, actually.

Ben Mathis-Lilley

January 12th, 2011 at 3:59 PM ^

 

the problem wasn’t “a football strategy focused on execution,” it was the execution thereof, right? the execution of the execution, as it were.

you can be ohio state or alabama or late-‘90s M and do power running and a 4-3 _well_, or you can be mid-2000s M and do power running and a 4-3 _poorly_.

you can recruit well, prepare your defense for all kinds of offenses, and come up with a 2007 gator bowl game plan; or you can recruit (relatively) indifferently, not be adequately scouted or prepared for App State, and come up with a 2006 USC game plan.

I understand the dissatisfaction--kind of feel like I got punched in the gut yesterday when I found out it was Hoke. But at this point listening to the same few worrisome data points and theories about why Hoke can't be successful for the next eight months is going to be just as annoying as it was to sit in the stands and hear people call Rodriguez a hick.

I do think the media 180 is a case of writers wanting to look like they can appreciate the finer points of football coaching unlike we idiot rabble fans. But it's equally condescending for us to IMMEDIATELY and snottily dismiss the idea that other coaches and people Brandon talked to do really think Hoke is a good coach. "Pff, by enthusiastically recommending this guy to coach the team they spent four-five years playing for, they must secretly mean that he's like a girl with a moustache." 

I love this blog's data- and evidence-driven approach to decision-making and analysis. But guesses about what will happen in the future, even well-informed ones, are just guesses. And it's going to be a real pain in the ass for the next few years if every piece of data about Hoke is bent to fit into a conclusion that we've already arrived at.

 

 

Baxter

January 12th, 2011 at 4:00 PM ^

 

Before Carr retired, we wanted him to go.  Yes, we were tired of his scheme, but the biggest problem was his lack of effort in recruiting, training, and motivating his players for the last 2 or 3 years he was there, and his propensity to lose one of those first three games of the year (Yay, Horror!).  

When we hired Rich Rod, I was very happy; I was excited for a young, exciting coach who ran a spread offense and seemed to have his players up for every game.  3 years later, I'm upset that he was fired.  But I understand why he was, as 1 win in 3 years against OSU, MSU, PSU, and UW is just not acceptable to anyone.  Unfortunate as that is, we all know that the surly half of the alumni base would never be happy with a coach like him in charge.  

With Hoke, I think we can bring the two halves of UM fandom back together.  The surly, "Michigan Man-or-else" half and the half that just loves Michigan and wants them to win, even if we're coached by Bugs Bunny (thanks Chris Perry).  We know Hoke doesn't like the zone read concept, and that is what it is.  Yes, it's not necessarily vogue, but teams continue to win games with man blocking schemes; they even win MNCs (Alabama, Texas, USC).  Whether you run a zone or man scheme isn't important; what is important is variation and talent.  

With Al Borges as OC, we're not going back to 3-yards and a cloud of dust.  We're moving to an offense that can be run under center or out of the shotgun, and relies on variation in passing routes in addition to a more traditional power-run scheme.  This is not going to be Lloyd Carr's run-run-pass.  Watching highlights from SDSU, Borges and Hoke are not afraid to throw the ball on first down, to make short passes, or to air it out.  This year, SDSU put up 11 (16 more than UW) more points against TCU (35) than any other team, a team that was #1 in scoring defense this year.  

We don't need a big name coach to win a national title.  What we need is a coach that pays attention to detail, recruits well, keeps the fan base together, and doesn't forget about the "easy games".  Hoke can probably be this coach.  

We won't know one way or the other until a few years from now.  But let's not rush to judgment based on 1, 2, or 3 good (or bad) years.  If Hoke starts losing games we SHOULD win - not because we are Michigan, but because we have more talent - that's when we'll know he's not the right coach.  But we won the 1997 NC behind a coach with no head coaching experience, and no sexy name, and we can again.  

Old School

January 12th, 2011 at 4:22 PM ^

I wish Hoke well for the sake of the University and its football fans.

However, I remain positively stunned by the internal athletic department politics now coming to light. The cronyism is positively amazing and absolutely discouraging. Good luck to someone who has not been in the clique.

lexus larry

January 12th, 2011 at 4:26 PM ^

Far greater issue during the LC days than the RichRod days...and for 2011, I think it's pretty safe to say 9 wins was going to be a reasonable expectation.

Funny how someone has already posted a predicted 3-1 OOC in the SDSU thread, with the loss against ND (at home, at night).

Nothing like revisiting those good ole LC days, than losing to a mediocre ND team that M was more than capable of beating...

/snark

st barth

January 13th, 2011 at 9:18 AM ^

With Hoke, I think we can bring the two halves of UM fandom back together.  The surly, "Michigan Man-or-else" half and the half that just loves Michigan and wants them to win, even if we're coached by Bugs Bunny (thanks Chris Perry).

What about the half of us that wanted to see the team move into the future by being able to compete with the speed & sophistication of the SECs & USCs of the world?  Embracing Hoke is a step backwards to the Lloyd Carr era and hardly seems fitting for the "Leaders and the Best."  In fact, the embrace of nostalgia is pathetic & disgusting.

Baxter

January 13th, 2011 at 3:21 PM ^

I'm certainly not embracing nostalgia.  And who would you have brought in?  

Speed?  That comes from recruiting.  We need to keep recruiting guys from the south.  But we can also get speed in the state of Michigan.  You've heard of Greg Jones?  Dude is seriously fast, and would have come to UM in a heartbeat a few years ago.  And sophistication?  Lloyd's offense was plenty of sophisticated when he wanted it to be (see game vs Florida in '97...).  The problem was he refused to remain sophisticated the rest of the season.  Where does it say that Hoke wants to only utilize 1/3rd of his playbook for 7 games of the year?

Seth9

January 12th, 2011 at 4:11 PM ^

The guy said he only entered once:

MVictors: So how long did it take to write the script that entered your name in the contest six million times? 
Lilly: [Laughs].  I actually only entered it once.   I was sitting in class and entered it on my phone, really not paying too much attention to Reinforced Concrete Design. [laughs]

readyourguard

January 12th, 2011 at 4:11 PM ^

Whatever.

We weren't getting Harbaugh.  And Miles either was insulted by the financial offer from Brandon OR was using us to improve his current position.

IMO, Hoke = or > than any "up and comer" coordinator with no head coaching experience. 

FTR, we had "team meetings" when RR was here.  Almost immediately upon his hire, there were close to 200 of us that attended a formal/private introduction of our new coach.  Rick Leach, a guy with a lot of recognition, was very vocally supportive of RR.   We also continued the Chili and Cornbread annual event. 

Have you (Brian) ever thought that maybe RR and HIS staff didn't make former players welcome around his program?  The pressure was on almost immediately following a 3-9 season.  You think he wanted to have player after player come and remind him how shitty his defense was? 

Finally, I was at the coaches clinic in RR's second season.  I can tell you, from someone who was coached by Bo, Mo, and Lloyd, that practice wasn't anything like what we were used to.  Keep in mind, while spring practice is going on during the coaches clinic, there are kids and coaches surrounding the field, 2 and 3 deep.  I heard "FUCK" yelled more times in that ONE practice than I heard my entire 4 years with Bo.  And the evening "chalk talk" sessions?  Well, let's just say I would have expected the Michigan Coaching Staff to use a little more discretion when it came to alcohol comsumption while lecturing a bunch of high school coaches.

I would have been ok with RR getting another year provided we got a whole new defensive staff....but Hoke is a lot more like what we're accustomed to.

Just my opinion and experience.

M-Wolverine

January 12th, 2011 at 6:02 PM ^

Why it's completely on the players (at least around here) to red carpet Rich's path in the job, but it's never said it was Rich's job to accept and be welcoming to the history of the program and players. Both would be in the best interest of Michigan Football. But it's always painted as one sided. Maybe just by people who are showing they didn't actually like the past and excused Rich if he didn't care either. Apparently that wasn't a good plan.

smwilliams

January 12th, 2011 at 6:25 PM ^

Oh noes! Swear words hurt my virgin ears. Seriously, if the uttering of the word "fuck" is one of the complaints against Rodriguez not understanding Michigan tradition, you need to wake up.

I guarantee you 100% of the kids we recruit are more accustomed to hearing that word than "tradition" or "experience" or "kindness". It isn't 1970 anymore.

Raoul

January 12th, 2011 at 4:17 PM ^

It's hard to envision Hoke not having the same sort of dismal record against the USCs of the world if he's going to rely on recruiting nowhere near as well and out-executing, as Michigan State found out the hard way against Alabama.

What is this? A reprise of the "Beilein ceiling" nonsense? A conclusion drawn on the day of Hoke's hiring?

Setting aside what I viewed as a great press conference, the fact that the team seems genuinely excited about Hoke is all I need to know. Great hire by Brandon. Go Blue!

M-Wolverine

January 12th, 2011 at 6:10 PM ^

Scoring points. It's been the up and down nature of our defense over the last decade. And I'd rather take my chances with the great athletes, than with OMG SCHEME, and 3*'s that can't stay within 38 of Mississippi St., while their players are STILL calling us predictable (we actually beat a National Championship caliber Alabama team the last time we played them).

Mgobluebilly

January 12th, 2011 at 4:20 PM ^

I couldn't post this as the system wouldn't let me so I will try here.  Maybe Brian will like it and add a few points to my account.

I was bored and wanted to do something positive regarding the search for Michigan's football coach. There is some swearing so if it might offend you or is inappropriate where you are, please don’t click the link. (or use headphones) All in good fun. Believe in Hoke. Brandon has the right guy. Go Blue!

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/8259661/

blusage

January 12th, 2011 at 4:29 PM ^

No typo. Masterhation: being negative to pleasure one's self, one way or another. Causes abuser to be blinded by cynicism.

Drew Sharp and all the other "I-am-negative-therefore-I'm-smart" writers, bloggers and commenters have opinions that are worthless. (Masterhation is not usually auto-erotic in nature, but who knows what goes on behind the closed doors of their empty lives.)

The opinions of the players: the people who've actually played the game, sacrificed for the team, and worked with the man, are what count.

They are all supporting Hoke: not because they have to, and not because they gain by it in any way (like from increased readership or hits on their web pages), but because they know what it takes.

Go Brady! Go Blue!