Darko over Carmelo. Don't forget Darko over Carmelo
Mike Lantry, 1972
Bulking up. Glenn Robinson III posts his offseason workout results to the internet. He is a cyborg:
Not bad for under two months. Now, about creating those shots…
In similar news for the ladies, boy does Michigan like taking pictures of itself without a shirt on. Dennis Norfleet may have an eight-pack.
But he has eyebrows and can play basketball. NBADraft.net has joined Chad Ford in projecting Trey Burke to the Pistons; Hardaway also slips into the first round at #29.
There's another interesting name right after Hardaway's: Glen Rice Jr. You may remember Michigan passing over Rice when he was a recruit despite their apparent desire to lock down any NBA kids, Michigan alum or no, they can find. Despite Rice rounding into a potential first-rounder, that seems to have been the right call since for whatever mildly unsavory reason, Rice spent last year tearing up the D-League instead of helping Georgia Tech not be horrible.
Anyway: that rumor out there about how the Pistons would rather grab Cody Zeller than Trey Burke when they've got Greg Monroe and Andre Drummond is so insane that it must be a smokescreen, but Joe Dumars is both the guy who put together the most unlikely championship team in… almost ever, I bet and the one who thought spending most of his cap space on a six-foot shooting guard and a guy without eyebrows was a good idea, traded Chauncey Billups for the ghost of Iverson and then couldn't even tank properly. I'm about fed up with Dumars at this point, and passing on Trey Burke (at eight!) is dead-to-me time.
What would happen if Trey Burke went up against NBA-level defenses? If only there was some way to tell… some way to tell… some way to tell…
5/10 from 2, 4/11 from 3, 10 assists versus Kansas
Dumars is eyeing this kid from Uzbekistan I bet.
Cry me a river of blood and transfers. Your unpaid student-athletes are leaving for better opportunities elsewhere in spite of the fact that you give them no money. You have done the same time and again to arrive where you are, the head coach of a basketball program. This is your hot take on that:
“It’s a bad rule,” Self says.
“It’s totally unfair to programs where they’ve worked with kids for four years,” Weber says.
Yes, that is the Bill Self at Kansas who just took grad transfer Tarik Black from Memphis, and Bruce Weber, the Kansas State coach who took Sam Maniscalco from Bradley. I'd like to say this is a surprising lack of self-awareness, but it's more required than surprised these days.
Elsewhere in the article, 16 players transferring up is an epidemic, with a transfer from Tulsa to Missouri highlighted as a negative ("I felt terrible for Danny [Manning]" says SIU coach Barry Hinson) after Tulsa fired its head coach. These days new head coaches feel free to cut loose anyone who doesn't fit their systems and these guys still have the gall to complain when players go where they know they're actually wanted. The article does, to its credit, suggest that actually offering those now-legal four-year scholarships would go a ways towards making the complaints something other than laughable.
Until then, lol. How many transfers of the 400+ this year were by choice of the coach, not the player? When that number is less than 16, call me.
Hello California. The Big Ten has called a press conference today with reps from the Holiday and Hunger bowls, which undoubtedly means they'll be affiliating with those folks. The Holiday is slated to get the third pick of teams left over from the big bowls (ie, 4th or 5th, mostly 5th); Hunger will be deposited into the Congrats On Going 6-6 range.
The Holiday is slated to be another one of those annoying play-up blows where the Pac-12 will send its second pick to the thing, not the third. That plus road game is not a good recipe for bowl success even if you aren't an epic pile of ever-growing suck. Remember that one time an Iowa team that went 2-6 in the Big Ten played Texas in Texas? Yeah. That's somewhat mitigated by the Big Ten having a stupid number of teams soon. Silver linings woo.
One hundred and forty two. Beilein talks retirement?
The soon-to-be seventh-year Michigan coach said Thursday he's got an idea of how many more years he'd like to coach before retiring, but isn't ready to announce those numbers publicly just yet.
"I have some numbers out there in my mind," said Beilein, who will turn 61 in February.
Prior to last season, Beilein said he still hadn't given retirement much thought, explaining how he'd just know when it was time to step away from the game. The 2013 season will be his 36th year as a head college basketball coach.
I suppose this is an inevitable thing. Guy will do so at Michigan, that's for sure, and hopefully not for another six or seven years.
Inflation. Lawyers Guns and Money takes a look at inflation-adjusted Michigan ticket prices over time, finding that things bounced around in a narrow range from 27 dollars (2012) to 47 for an entire century before the recent explosion to approximately 130 dollars, depending on how much of your PSL you're writing off.
Also included: why amateurism was basically fine in 1981 and is ludicrous now.
(3) Salary of Michigan’s head football coach, in 2012 dollars:
2012: $3.25 million
That is all you need to know. Related: 16 million of projects for field hockey, softball, and baseball approved.
Darko over Carmelo. Don't forget Darko over Carmelo
The problem with that draft is that the Pistons were basically a finished product already with a pretty stable lineup for the upcoming years. Even if they had taken Carmelo, he might have languished on the bench for a year or two until demanding a trade or something.
Darko seemed like the savvy long term bet in that situation but in retrospect the best move probably would have been to trade that draft pick for a bunch of draft picks 3-5 years down the road (when one might have reasonably been able to predict a need to rebuild from the peak of the Chauncey, Sheed, Big Ben, etc team).
Bottom line is that the Pistons lucked into that draft pick (which they didn't really need) and it ended up being more of a headache than it was really worth.
Would have ganked the starting spot from Prince the moment he got to Detroit, for better or worse.
the Pistons did not draft him.
Exactly. I think Dumars is eminently blameworthy for the Chauncy -> Iverson -> Gordon/Villanueva series of transactions. The Darko pick was more about having the wrong pick in that draft. Darko was the consensus #2 pick. Any other team there would have likely made the same mistake.
And having watched Carmelo closely since he's come to the Knicks, I think Bosh would have been an even better pick (though with Bosh, they probably don't move for 'sheed the next year). Carmelo's ball stopping wouldn't have worked on that team, and I'm not convinced he can play any other way.
People forget how much of a sure thing Darko was thought to be. I remember one interview David Aldridge or somebody was conducting at the lottery of a Pistons representative, asking him who they were going to draft. Aldridge basically interrupted the "we'll take a look and see what best suits our team" answer and said repeatedly "it's going to be Darko." Plus, as someone pointed out below, with no Rasheed yet, Darko actually fit a need. Darko pick is only horrible in hindsight.
If you blame Joe for the bad stuff, you have to give him credit for the good. He hoodwinked the Magic so badly in the Grant Hill sign and trade, not to mention a few other great deals in assembling the 2004 NBA Champions, that other GM's started low-ballling him and wouldn't entertain serious trade offers.
Joe has had a direct hand in every NBA Championship the Pistons have won. I am still giving him the benefit of the doubt.
Darko was drafted in 2003, and Sheed wasn't acquired till February of 2004. What one has to ask themselves is this:
Would they still have made the trade for Rasheed if they had Carmelo starting? (Money, bad influence, desperate need to make a move to be put over the top). If not, do they win the title that year? And if not, do they win any more titles down the line with an older Carmelo?
I think you may be trading a title for the possibility of being really good for a number of more years (or at least till Anthony decides he wants to take his talents to New York). Ideally you do both, but I'll always take a 'ship and some bad years than a lot of good ones without a ring.
In related news, Darko just announced he's retiring. Or at least people think he did. The translation of his statement was painful, to say the least.
"No more chances. This is a done deal. Bygone. Hence I wear a lot of bad experiences. Guilt is mutual, it was bad moves with their with my hand. However, is not worth more to talk about. They think they should to play a supporting role and wait for his chance. understand why they have such an attitude. My NBA career speaks to me for such a player, and I know I'm not. "
good for a number of years. (Unlike Denver, where Carmelo played for a number of years). Carmelo was not a good pick for the Pistons at that time. They were not a finished product but they were certainly taking form. That was a concept team and if you draft Carmelo you are entirely scrapping the concept.
They probably wouldn't have imploded the team by trading Billups if they still had Melo. And would still be good today. I just don't know if they ever would have been great.
Every time I see d. wade play I think of Joe d and grin.
He was taken 5th, right?
Also damn it, I wanted Beilein to get a ring last year. Here's hoping we can get back
No need to make fun of Charlie V for having Alopecia when there are innumerable aspects of his game at which to sneer...
I just hope Joe is not scared to take Burke because of the Mateen Cleaves "experiment." I have heard rumblings that that is the potential justification, which..no..not the same situation at all.
It's simple really: can Trey Burke reach Tony Parker's level? Zeke in the old days (fuck Stockton) but now Parker is the icon all 6 foot guards should aspire to be like. I'd say he already matches Parker re assist and wrap around dimes on drives to the lane, but does Trey have the likelihood to reach the same blow by? The same handle? The same lean shoulder contact then kiss glass lay up?
He's no Tony Parker right now, but I can't think of another guy in the draft who has more potential to reach that level as Trey. He's definitely a top 10 pick, and if I drafted him I'd tell him to study every single Tony Parker tape on Earth.
I am just concerned that they will be scared off by his size and draft Carter-Williams instead, which, IMO, would be a huge mistake.
As for the Parker comparison, I think Trey is a better shooter than Parker, but probably won't be as quick. He has already shown a knack for being able to finish at the rim consistently though.
Joe D played with a guy quite a bit like Trey.
Isiah Thomas - 6'1 180
Indiana Stats - 63 G, 15.4 PPG, 3.5 RPG, 5.7 APG
Trey Burke - 6'1 187
Michigan Stats - 73 G, 16.9 PPG, 3.3 RPG, 5.7 APG
The NBADraft.net link above has Alex Len at No. 1. I only saw Maryland play a little this year, but that seems like it would be a reach. Did anybody watch the Terps much this year? If so, what do you think?
IMO, Cody Zeller is way more impressive and a much better athlete. I just have never been impressed with Len.
In any other year, it would be a crazy reach. But the very top of this year's draft is so shaky that it makes sense.
I didn't see a lot of Maryland, but Len looked pretty agile, with some decent post moves and the ability to rebound. He's also got an NBA body, 7'1", 255 with a 7'4" wingspan.
I think this is more about Noel, though. Apparently the people around Noel are scaring a lot of teams off. Teams have been having a hard time even getting a meeting with Noel and he's blown off a lot of the top NBA agents. Plus, I think he's something like 210 with indications that he might not ever be able to carry more weight. All those questions means that Cleveland's been unable to move the pick, even though they'd like to.
EDIT: The real thing that makes no sense in that mock is New Orleans taking Noel (unless they're taking him for someone else) because Anthony Davis is basically the same player, only more offensively skilled.
GR3. Wow, that's impressive.
It's great to see that GRIII probably got stronger over the course of a month, but those body fat numbers mainly indicate that he probably did a lot of eating in April -- 10.4% is quite a bit higher than where you'd like to see your bouncy wings, with 9.8% still leaving a lot of room for improvement. For reference, perpetually out-of-shape assemblage of physical tools Lance Stephenson checked in at 9.3% at his draft combine. (http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?year=All&sort2=DESC&draft=&pos=&source=All&sort=7)
Oddly, I'm not impressed with the pull ups. I did 23 pull ups (yes legit, wide grip) at 43, weighing 220. I'd expect at least 30 out of GR3. USE THE LATS MORE BABY DOG!!
How long are your arms? I'm guessing not nearly as long in proportion to your body as his.
It's not that crazy for a grown man to have pure strength numbers higher than a 19 year old, but like the poster above said, he probably has to pull his 220 a lot farther than you do.
He wrote "GRIII" in the Name:______________ section. I wonder if he even thinks of himself as "Glenn"
For the pistons passing on Burke--should he be on the board at the 8th pick--is that they have a greater need at SF and don't want to run a tiny frontcourt of Burke an Knight.
It is a valid concern, no doubt. But at the same time, unless Otto Porter is out there, you have to take the best player at a position of need. Dumars has to see the writing on the wall in regards to Knight at PG. Yes, Pistons need a SF, but what SF after Porter and I guessss Oladipo (who won't be there at 8 anyway) is worth drafting in the Top 10? Why not take the best PG in the draft, try the small backcourt of Burke and Knight, or better yet, use some of that cap space and ship off Knight for an older, serviceable SF?
A starting 5 of Burke, Stuckey, veteran SF, Munroe, and 'Dre is making the playoffs.
in the NBA, but I'm trying to think of who could legitimately slide and be available at 8 who would justify NOT taking Burke if he was still around at that point.
I can see guys who would be an ok pick if Burke was gone at that point; I'm sure I could come up with someone who wasn't supposed to be there that would make more sense for the Pistons if they drop. Because even if Burke was just servicable for the Pistons it would at least give me a reason to be interested in what they're doing again. They pass on him for Zeller or such and I might not watch again till they clean house.
Frankly while there are some adequate free agent PGs out there, I don't think any really worth signing or trading for. They're better off taking their chance on a rookie and hoping he blows up. But for their big time scorer/star they're probably going to have to sign and trade with their cap space for someone anyone, not get it from a rookie. Because even as free agents go, Andre Iguodala will make you a playoff team, but you're not winning anything with him. Joe needs to find a team that needs to clean house and get himself a superstar. (Because he won't be around if they're in the lottery next year and actually suck enough to keep their pick and get a star in that draft).
Super in shape live stock.
Went to the KRAFT bowl (back when it was the Emerald Nuts bowl) and it was a pretty positive experience. Not exactly loaded with tradition or actual football excitement (SEE half empty MLB stadium in a rainstorm), but being right in the heart of San Francisco is always nice. Also sets up for a cool Christmas trip to a place like Big Sur, Napa, Carmel, or San Simeon, all of which are way more enjoyable than sitting around trying to get shitfaced with your girl's relatives.
A half empty NFL stadium in Santa Clara just doesn't have the same charm.
Also, swoll GRIII is frightening. Hope we have adequate backboard insurance.
How is the layout in terms of the field in relation to the crowd? I'm not the biggest fan of playing in baseball stadiums because it always seems like there is a huge random space to one side of the field.
Did they have both teams on the same sideline?
Field basically went from the left field wall to the right field/McCovey Cove wall with both teams sharing the center-field sideline (with some crappy bleachers set up behind them to get rid of that awkward space.
Goofy, but not too bad. Our seats were basically on the 50 on the first base line side (actual stadium seats) and for the crowd size the venue seemed more than adequate (like I said, probably half full since Boston College apparently has zero fans).
Staying in the city and watching the game right on the water trumped the silly set-up for me. I just don't see a crowd coming to the new stadium for a lower tier game so it will probably look just as bad even in the shiny new football venue.
I'm hoping Beilein is thinking more than 6 or 7 more years.
I literally just watched the same Kansas-Michigan highlight video last night. As noted earlier yesterday Trey Burke is in this months GQ and his images brought me back to March. So incredible in that comeback against KU...Memories to serve a lifetime. Further, I'm not at all an NBA fan these days, though I'll watch much more now than I would have 5+ years ago. But wherever Trey ends up, I'll be watching that team next season and further to see how he progresses alongside the pros; Trey was/is the kind of player that may help continute my revival in regards to watching NBA basektball.
raise a good point. While I think that a versatile wing would be the Pistons best case scenario, if they drafted Burke, my interest level in the Pistons would go immediately from non-existent to intense over night. It would be a very quick way to get people back into the Pistons.
I'm surprised as an ex Michigan guy Long liked Bielema so much. He may end up being a good fit down there, but man, if you want to talk about guys who would be a horrible fit at Michigan...
Michigan not getting Glen Rice Jr was very beneficial for our young program. He was suspended multiple times for violation of team rules before he was arrested for a DUI, while discharging a firearm in a public place.
I'm taking Cody Zeller all day long if he falls to the eighth pick.
The NBA is a big man's league especially in the East.
I'd rotate my bigs until I found the two I like best and if I'm liking all three, life is good.
Guards, even great ones, you can get especially if you have a gang of bigs that can play.
I just have a hard time seeing Zeller's upside as an NBA player being very high.
His best attribute is his ability to get out and run the floor and finish as a big, and there's certainly a place for that on the right kind of team. But aside from his ability to run the floor, he's not particularly athletic, he doesn't have much of a game beyond 10 feet, he's not a rim protector and has very short arms (he's one of the few players whose wingspan is less than his height), and he's too slight to be an effective rebounder. I think he can only play at the 4 and you're gambling he can develop a consistent shot from 20'.
I disagree. I don't think he's a good value in the top 8ish, but he's a guy who could play the 4 or 5. He's thin now, but he's like 20. He'll never be Marc Gasol, but he'll put on more beef. As a 4, he's got great size and the athleticism to guard out to the arc, and as a 5 he's a little thin but tough to keep up with.
No big man is a finished product two years out of HS like a guard can be.
I totally agree with your last point. I just have a hard time seeing a guy with his body type being someone who can ever bang with the bigger post players and he doesn't have the kind of elite athleticism (ie leaping ability) that will allow him to protect the rim in the center of the court (his short arms add to this problem). I don't think he'll ever be able to play 5 other than on a team deliberately playing small (which is the trend but I think he'd always be a defensive liability there).
His best case is that the league is really moving away from post play and that he can translate his quickness up and down the court into a side to side quickness allowing him to guard and play on the wing and as a pick and pop guy, and develop a game where he can either hit a 20 footer or go by someone when they come out to contest.
I'm just skeptical he'll be able to do that, given the way he's played all his life (back to the basket guy who plays up and down the middle of the court, has rarely been asked to play pick and roll, which IU just didn't run that much.
A lot of my opinion has to do with the league going away from the big bangers down low. There just aren't as many of those guys anymore. Neither of the teams in the finals had a guy Zeller couldn't hang with down low.
I don't think he could have guarded Duncan.
Definitely true for Miami, since they don't really post anyone but Lebron and occasionally Wade on a backdown. His quickness would be pretty good in the sag and close-out defense he'd play if he was on someone like Battier or Miller.
OK, yeah he'd have a tough time with Duncan but he's a hall of famer. You said that Zeller couldn't bang down low with the 5s, and I meant that neither Miami nor SA had a center that was too physical for Zeller (at least Zeller in a year or two) and my point was just that a lot of teams don't have the same big, bruising centers like they used to.
Was with big teams banging them around and wearing them out. They still won, but it set a blueprint for what people are going to try to beat them.
And Duncan can tell everybody he's not a center, but he's a center.