a salute to Hawaii-New Mexico.
Unverified Voracity Enjoys The Lamentation Of Your Women
The lamentation of your women.
via user chunkums
He loves it. The lamentation.
All American. I'm pleasantly surprised that both recruiting networks named Brandon Graham to their All-America teams after he was snubbed by the first of the infinite lists that came out—FWAA or something. Graham and Zoltan the Inconceivable also feature on the AP's second team, which is nice. Zoltan got the second team nod at Scout, too.
This Drew Butler kid who stole first team honors and the Ray Guy award… well… probably deserved it. Before you stone me to death—a fate I willingly accept for such heresy—please let me note that Butler averaged almost 49(!) yards a kick and Georgia led the country with a 42.8 yard net average.
Expansion bits. Various notes and errata on possible expansion:
- Sentiment is running strongly against a move to the Big Ten at Syracuse blog Troy Nunes is an Absolute Magician with 56% opposed to a move versus just 19% in favor. In the comments the most commonly cited reason is John Boeheim, who is credited with assembling the Big East with his bare hands and would instantly quit if he had to play in a different sandbox.
- BHGP points out that the BFD with the CIC is post-grad Research I stuff, not necessarily undergraduate education, which Big Ten schools are supposed to look at as a necessary evil.
- Missouri's chancellor said MU would "listen" to the Big Ten should it come calling, so they will at least flirt with a Big 12 departure.
The useful comment thread from the Grid of Judgment has these additional bits of information:
- Pitt's got a monster endowment: $2.334 billion, according to unnecessarily precise poster Don. That's more than anyone in the league except Northwestern and Michigan.
- Multiple posters suggest that Nebraska is seriously pissed off you guys about Texas's reign as supreme unquestioned ruler of the Big 12 and could really give a crap about the rest of the league save for Colorado. Oklahoma already rotates off their schedule.
- Rutgers is apparently a mediocre school on the decline, which explains why there are so many kids from Jersey at Michigan.
And any thread on expansion comes with an increasingly preposterous series of candidate schools that make sense in no way whatsoever: Texas A&M, TCU, Toronto, Vanderbilt, Virginia, Auburn, Rice—seriously, someone suggested Rice—etc.
Virginia Tech seems plausible at first blush but after UVA fought tooth and nail to get them into the ACC lest the governor get out his pimp hand a jump to the Big Ten seems wildly improbable. They would probably be more willing to jump than any other ACC team since they could give a crap about basketball and don't have longstanding rivalries with anyone in the league. Last time I brought this up I mentioned Boston College as a crazy off-board option, and I guess they remain one. They bring a huge market with them but one that is slightly busy with other things, and they don't fit the Big Ten's huge public research university model. They would get tripped up by the Research One thing.
Pitt still looks like the strongest candidate by far. For people wondering about money, remember that Pitt can be slightly less marketable than the Big Ten average—which I don't think they are given their currently monstrous basketball program—and still be a major asset because of the championship game and increased profitability from the Big Ten Network.
As far as divisions go, there's no way to make them work geographically without turning into a version of the Big 12 on steroids by chucking Penn State, Michigan, and Ohio State into the same division. You also can't keep all the rivalries together if Pitt is indeed the pick. You try to split this into six team divisions:
- Michigan-OSU-MSU
- Iowa-Wisconsin-Minnesota
- PSU-Pitt
- Illinois-Northwestern
- Indiana-Purdue
Can't be done without murdering one traditional rivalry or the entire point of putting Pitt in the conference. Missouri is much easier, since you just throw them in with Illinois and Northwestern and put them in the Michigan pod.
I'd prefer an expanded status quo with a ninth conference game, guaranteed rivalry pairs, and a couple byes but apparently you have to have two divisions to have a title game, which is inane but true.
Heismens of all varieties. So the actual Heisman went to a good running back on an undefeated team instead of, you know, the best player in the country. Or even the best running back. A lot of this can be ascribed to the Heisman's bloated list of voters and their lack of accountability. I mean, seriously, here's a guy with a Heisman vote whose ballot read Ingram, Tebow, McCoy:
I never saw Gerhart play an entire game (we work all day Saturday and Saturday night) and only saw a few minutes of Suh’s game against Texas. I refused to vote for somebody based on highlights.
Facepalm!
I'm impressed that this guy managed to spin his ignorance into a principled stance against voting "based on highlights" instead of taking a principled stand against voting based on the three football games he saw this year.
So hurrah for the Sports Blog Heisman coming out approximately correct by handing Toby Gerhart the trophy over Ndamukong Suh by one point. Here's guessing that everyone who voted saw Gerhart and Suh for at least one game. Not that bloggers are perfect. A few years ago when Rakes of Mallow was running its now-defunct version of the same thing, the winner was Hawaii quarterback Colt Brennan, which ugh.
Of course. Here's Fielding Yost curling in a silly hat:
That is all. More pictures of Yost, none of them nearly so ridiculous, at MVictors.
Etc.: Corwin Brown is out at Notre Dame. If there is an opening on the coaching staff, could he fill it? He doesn't coach LBs, unfortunately, but has slayed on the recruiting trail. Wonk asks "What Happened to Michigan?"
December 16th, 2009 at 11:37 AM | 
"You try to split this into
"You try to split this into
December 16th, 2009 at 11:58 AM |
Unfair groupings
Unfair groupings
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Division #1 seems quite a bit more competitive than Division #2, no? You have five of the six worst teams together (and, therefore five of the six best in the other). This would be far more lopsided than the Big 12, and Penn State would play in the championship game 73% of the time.
December 16th, 2009 at 12:01 PM |
It would be against Michigan
It would be against Michigan
It would be against Michigan 100% of the time so I'm not complaining.
December 16th, 2009 at 9:47 PM |
I agree with you wholeheartedly
I agree with you wholeheartedly
But the question was could you do it without breaking up the rivalries...not could you do it AND have an equitable distribution.
"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk
December 16th, 2009 at 11:40 AM |
Personall, I want the
Personall, I want the
Personally, I want the Wolverines and Buckeyes in separate divisions with a scheduled inter-divisional protected rivalry game played each season. This would allow them the chance to play in the Big-? Championship game as well.
December 16th, 2009 at 11:41 AM |
Pretty sure it's Jim not
Pretty sure it's Jim not
Pretty sure it's Jim not John.
December 16th, 2009 at 9:49 PM |
John's his evil twin who
John's his evil twin who
John's his evil twin who built the conference. Look for the goatee.
"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk
December 16th, 2009 at 11:49 AM |
Asking..don't know
Asking..don't know
Would Va Tech not be considered anyway because they are NOT part of the AAU list: http://www.aau.edu/about/article.aspx?id=5476
I've read (internets) that this may be case?
December 16th, 2009 at 12:35 PM |
There's also the problem that
There's also the problem that
There's also the problem that Virginia Tech is, you know, way out in Virginia.
December 16th, 2009 at 11:54 AM |
Valor pleases you, Crom
Valor pleases you, Crom
They shall all drown in lakes of blood.
http://fightingtheyouth.blogspot.com/2007/05/schwarzenegger-sunday-conan...
The more I think about expansion, the more I think it has to be Notre Dame or Nebraska or nobody. Pitt gets a helluva a lot more out of it than, well, every team in the Big Ten.
December 16th, 2009 at 11:55 AM |
Why can't it work?
Why can't it work?
I don't see why it would be too tough. Just because the teams aren't in the same division does not mean they can't play every year. The leagues that have 2 divisions still play teams from the other side. They play 8 conference games (even though there are only 6 teams per side) just like B10 does now. Divide up the teams preserving as many rivalries as possible and then then you have 3 games against the other side to lock in the rivalries that get left out by playing a cross divisional conference game.
December 16th, 2009 at 12:06 PM |
Is Yost Curling???
Is Yost Curling???
Those look like curling stones at his feed (they have handles).
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." - J.Lebowski
December 16th, 2009 at 1:16 PM |
If you are referring to the
If you are referring to the
If you are referring to the picture introduced by this quote:
Here's Fielding Yost curling in a silly hat
then yes, he's curling. His feed look pretty cold in that picture, wouldn't you say?
December 16th, 2009 at 1:23 PM |
Christ.... my reading comprehension...
Christ.... my reading comprehension...
has gone to pot.
Read: "Here's Yost - funny hat"
Not good.
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." - J.Lebowski
December 16th, 2009 at 12:09 PM |
I'd take Nebraska in a second if possible.
I'd take Nebraska in a second if possible.
Otherwise, Pitt.
"Everyone gets dumped Gabe. Let me give you some advice: a little coverup on your Adams Apple will make it appear smaller. Which will make you appear less like a transvestite."
December 16th, 2009 at 12:12 PM |
"Monster endowment," eyyy?
"Monster endowment," eyyy?
"Monster endowment," eyyy?
There should be a witty shirt about ours.
I've been called a "hockey valkyrie" by those who don't know me.
Follow the Children of Yost now, worry about how to keep the ladies at bay later: http://twitter.com/#!
December 16th, 2009 at 12:29 PM |
Hmmmm, how about this on a shirt
Hmmmm, how about this on a shirt
Michigan: We're More Massively Endowed Than You
Michigan: Gaze Upon Our Monster Endowment and Tremble
December 16th, 2009 at 3:26 PM |
Witty shirt
Witty shirt
December 16th, 2009 at 12:14 PM |
Big 10 Expansion to Toronto
Big 10 Expansion to Toronto
I almost coughed up my coffee when I read Brian's suggestion of adding Toronto? I am sure it is a misprint. Are they going to play out of the worst sports facility anywhere, the Roger's Center in front of 500 students. Ask the Buffalo Bill fans who have made the yearly trip to Toronto for the NFL game, no tailgating, traffic, and a dead stadium. Besides, I am sure that the University of Toronto is not part of the NCAA the last time I checked.
December 16th, 2009 at 12:34 PM |
FWIW, Toronto was mentioned
FWIW, Toronto was mentioned
FWIW, Toronto was mentioned as part of this list:
an increasingly preposterous series of candidate schools that make sense in no way whatsoever.
December 16th, 2009 at 1:55 PM |
Sarcasm FAIL.
Sarcasm FAIL.
Sarcasm FAIL.
Brewer. Wolverine.
December 16th, 2009 at 3:28 PM |
It ain't happening (but I'd love it if it did)
It ain't happening (but I'd love it if it did)
Yes, I live downtown.
But no, there is absolutely no way it happens.
Where's Charlie Bauman when you need him?
December 16th, 2009 at 12:17 PM |
Rutgers
Rutgers
Being from NJ (but having gone to UM) I can attest - Rutgers is not a great school. I agree they shouldn't be in the Big 10, but it has more to do with their sports programs. Rutgers is one of the few huge state schools who has never really been good at any major sport - which is the main reason their alums just don't seem to care about the school after they graduate.
You can't really say with a straight face though that schools like Iowa, Illinois, MSU, etc have a big academic advantage over Rutgers though. Rutgers downfall is that they are just not good at sports, and don't get any attention because its pro sports all day every day, in the NY media.
Having said that (nod to larry david), its also kind of absurd to call Syracuse "excellent" academically. Its definitely nowhere significantly above Rutgers (except maybe in Broadcast).
December 16th, 2009 at 12:23 PM |
Based on history except last two years:
Based on history except last two years:
A: Michigan-OSU-Iowa-Wisconsin-Minnesota-Northwestern
(power)-(power)-(mid power)-(mid power)-(meh)-(meh)
B: PSU-Pitt-MSU-Purdue-Illinois-Indiana
(power)-(power)-(mid power)-(mid power)-(meh)-(meh)
Example Michigan Schedule
1Iowa
2Wisconsin
3Minnesota
4MSU (locked rival)
5PSU-Pitt-Purdue (rotate)
6Illinois-Indiana (rotate)
7Northwestern
8Ohio State
life is like a box of chocolates...
and you got the Whizzo Quality Assortment
December 16th, 2009 at 9:45 PM |
You'd really classify Pitt as a traditional power?
You'd really classify Pitt as a traditional power?
I'm not sure I'd have them over MSU, no more Iowa or Wisconsin.
"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk
December 16th, 2009 at 12:24 PM |
The Tree of Woe
The Tree of Woe
How much longer must we be crucified before we just say fuck it and bite the throat of the vulture that feeds on us! Hopefully next year we will figure out the riddle of steel.
December 16th, 2009 at 2:18 PM |
I have no idea what you mean
I have no idea what you mean
I have no idea what you mean or are referring to but I respect anyone willing to bite the throat of scavengers feasting on his dying body...
edit: I have now been educated: http://fightingtheyouth.blogspot.com/2007/05/schwarzenegger-sunday-conan...
December 16th, 2009 at 12:26 PM |
Not so hard
Not so hard
North-South Brian, with one cross-division rivalry game allowed to be protected with mutual agreement from the two schools. Therefore...
North - Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Michigan State, MICHIGAN
South - Illinois, Purdue, Indiana, Ohio State, Penn State, Pitt/Mizzou
Protected cross-division rivalries: MICHIGAN-OSU, MSU-PSU, Illinois-Northwestern
The reason I like UM & OOHI in separate divisions is that you keep the possibility of them meeting in a Championship Game alive. This has to be done. The problem is not having an immediate rematch. The solution is to move The Game to end of October. The game will always be relevant unless either team just totally goes in the tank with an 0fer start.
Scenario: UM & OOHI play around Halloween, winner is set up for division championship, loser has a new sense of urgency to win remaining games to get a chance to avenge their loss. We move MSU or Minnesota--our next most storied in-conference rivalries--to the last regular season game to give it some added meaning. We take the Paul Bunyan or Little Brown Jug off the field as a lead-in to the Big10 championship game. (But no goofy NHLesque don't-touch-the-tropy-because-it's-a-jinx superstitions, please.)
December 16th, 2009 at 12:29 PM |
Actually, a UM-OSU immediate
Actually, a UM-OSU immediate
Actually, a UM-OSU immediate rematch would be awesome. Remember when we thought that might happen a few years ago? It would have been awesome then and it would still be awesome now.
December 16th, 2009 at 3:47 PM |
After a few years the novelty
After a few years the novelty
After a few years the novelty would wear off though. The reason that that was so awesome was that it had never happened before and it was like DUDE WE TOTALLY DESERVE TO CRUSH THEIR FACES!
MGoGTI
December 16th, 2009 at 12:30 PM |
Divsions and scheduling
Divsions and scheduling
One way to circumvent the division imbalance and scheduling is to use an SEC model. I couldn't find an official link, but I am 99% sure that each SEC school has one "rival" from the other division that they play every year. Examples are Auburn/Georiga, Tennessee/Alabama. They then rotate the other 5 teams over the years with the 2 remaining games on their schedule. This could facilitate a North/South Big Ten arrangement. Big Ten North could have Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State and Northwestern. The South would be Penn State, Ohio State, Illinois, Purdue, Indiana and Pitt. Northwestern and Pitt (or whoever the 12th team is). In a perfect world ND would be the 12th team and replace Northwestern in the North. The one obvious drawback to this would be unbalanced scheduling as always having to play Ohio State instead of Indiana would be much tougher.
December 16th, 2009 at 2:14 PM |
This is correct
This is correct
The SEC has a bit of a unique history in regards to scheduling. In the early 80's the conference had a 6-game schedule which moved to 7-games by the end of the decade. While some games were always scheduled yearly: the typical (Florida-Georgia, Auburn-Alabama) and non-typical (Bama-Vandy) others were not (Tennessee-Florida). In order to keep those cross-divisin rivalries (Georgia-Auburn, Tennessee-Bama) with expansion, the schools agreed to an 8-game 5-2-1 schedule (5 division games, 2 SET rivalry games in the other division, and 1 rotating team in the other division). Since the early part of this decade, the SEC has gone to a 5-1-2 (1 SET game in the other division and 2 rotating teams in the other division).
The Big XII doesn't do this. They swap out all 3 non-division opponents every 2 years for the other 3 teams. They could have gone with an SEC model, but because the conferences "new" members were all added to the South Division it didn't make much sense. It's not like Texas Tech or Baylor have any set rivalries with any schools in the North.
December 16th, 2009 at 12:51 PM |
I think those who wish for a double
I think those who wish for a double
UM and OSU match-up are not realizing the horrors that could be unleashed.
Could you imagine losing to them twice?
Or beating them regular season only to have them beat us in the championship by some fluke play?
Naturally, it can go the other way but either of the above scenarios would be unbearable to me.
life is like a box of chocolates...
and you got the Whizzo Quality Assortment
December 16th, 2009 at 1:04 PM |
that picture of Yost made my
that picture of Yost made my
that picture of Yost made my day.
December 16th, 2009 at 1:18 PM |
Representing NJ
Representing NJ
Brian,
I'm busy at work, but otherwise would take time to present facts about Rutgers to represent NJ.
Rutgers is #66 in the latest USNews & World report. This is ahead of:
#71 Indiana
#71 Michigan State
#71 Iowa
Therefore, they would be in the bottom half, but are better ranked than some of the existing B10 schools.
Being from Jers, I know that their Engineering and Pharmacy schools are pretty good, as is the Medical/ Dental School.
... when I see some plays that Mike (Martin) makes in practice, I be like dang. - Jibreel Black
December 16th, 2009 at 1:19 PM |
What is Best in Life?
What is Best in Life?
We ARE Michigan....COME GET SOME!!!
December 16th, 2009 at 2:57 PM |
From a quick google
From a quick google
From a quick google search:
In order form Least to Most Ridiculous:
+"Bo Schembechler" +"in a Silly Hat": Zero Results
+"Fielding Yost" +"in a Silly Hat": One Result
+"Lloyd Carr" +"in a Silly Hat": One Result
+"Woody Hayes" +"in a Silly Hat": One Result
+"Charlie Weis" +"in a Silly Hat": Three Results
+"Jim Tressel" +"in a Silly Hat": Four Results
Who's the most ridiculous coach now?
MGoGTI
December 16th, 2009 at 3:17 PM |
Campbell and Norris divisions
Campbell and Norris divisions
oh, and we make the 12th team some team in Texas; is any school in Texas academically qualified?
But, it would make for some fun match-ups, help on recruiting and everyone from the Midwest with a college degree is legally required to move to Texas (or Georgia), so it works out for everyone.
December 16th, 2009 at 3:21 PM |
Rice
Rice
Actually makes more sense to me than, say, Syracuse. It's a top-notch school, especially in sciences, and is known for producing astronauts (SPACE, bitches).
Look, we already have three perennial football powers in the Big Ten in Michigan, OSU, Penn State, and two very good football schools in Iowa and Wisconsin. We do not need to add a school to upgrade the Big 10's powerhouse portfolio.
As far as football is concerned, they are not exactly a powerhouse (although they've been to two bowls in the last four years), but, c'mon, space, bitches, SPACE. Has it occurred to anyone but me that Rice is in Houston, and that adding them to the Big Ten can only (albeit indirectly) enhance Michigan's NASA bona fides?
I suppose there is the issue that Rice already has rivalries with schools like SMU, etc., but I am sure that they would at least consider a Big Ten invitation.
My position: if we can't get Colorado, let's get Rice.
Missing Ann Arbor
December 16th, 2009 at 4:03 PM |
AP All-American teams
AP All-American teams
Congrats to Brandon Graham and Zoltan Mesko for 2nd team AA from AP. When did the AP change its All-American voting from a panel of hundreds of sportswriters across the country to a smaller group of somewhere between 12 and 20 voters? The result was that the Big Ten (1), Pac-10 (1), ACC (2) and Big East (0) combined for 4 spots of the 25 spots on the first team. If I recall correctly, the SEC and Big 12 combined for 18 of the 25 spots. Idaho, TCU and Notre Dame claimed the last 3.
AP All-American team lost major relevance as far as I am concerned with a team so thoroughly dominated by 2 conferences. Granted the Big 10 was down this year, but 18 of 25 spots to SEC and Big 12? They grabbed another 9 on the second team.
December 16th, 2009 at 4:13 PM |
Pulled, Diaried
Pulled, Diaried
Hey, there's a new Misopogon diary.
A rather short one.
It used to be here.
(Blogger alias: "Misopogon") This team is under construction. We thank you for your patience.
December 16th, 2009 at 4:22 PM |
Let's figure out a 12 member
Let's figure out a 12 member
Let's figure out a 12 member Transformers conference. My votes for the autobot division are:
Optimus Prime
Ironhide
Bumblebee
Grimlock
Jazz
Omega Supreme
Decepticon division:
Megatron
Shockwave
Soundwave
Starscream
Devastator
Rumble
Winners takes Cybertron. Losers get fed to Unicron.
December 16th, 2009 at 4:51 PM |
The Lamentation of Your Women?
The Lamentation of Your Women?
"The Lamentation of Your Women"? So how does a picture of David Cone help women breast feed?
Way I'm swinging today, nothing bugs me except insufficient applause.
December 16th, 2009 at 5:25 PM |
Illinois-Northwestern
Illinois-Northwestern
This is the rivalry to break up. If you play a 9-game conference schedule, then they still play two out of every three years.
Northwestern goes into the East division with the PA, OH, and MI schools. Makes for a nice trip to Chicago every other year.
Those who think they can instill parity by splitting up UM, OSU, and PSU one way or another are [1] short-sighted (it's up to the West division teams to get their shit together now that their champion is one win away from an automatic BCS berth -- you can see that gradually happening in the Big 12 North) and [2] looking at the wrong 12-team conference for a lesson on how not to do things. It's not the BIg 12. The real disaster is the ACC. There, in the name of parity, they have split up at least four natural rivalries (Florida State-Miami, North Carolina-North Carolina State, Georgia Tech-Clemson, Maryland-Virginia). I assume these games are always played, but they are seriously devalued when they are not divisional games with everything on the line.
Imagine UM-OSU playing a regular-season game where the outcome doesn't matter at all, because both have already clinched their divisional championships. What a travesty that would be! But that's basically what the ACC has done to all the rivalries listed above...
December 16th, 2009 at 5:40 PM |
I see your concern, but the
I see your concern, but the
I see your concern, but the out of division games still count for the conference record and affects whether you win your division. So if the out of division games happen early/mid season it's probably not too likely the division will have been decided at that point. Putting those 3 games towards the beginning/middle of the year would seem to prevent the games from being meaningless and also prevent potential immediate rematches in a championship game.
I do agree mostly that regardless of how the divisions are split it should be mostly up to the other division to get their act together so they are not just yearly lambs led to the slaughter.
December 16th, 2009 at 8:59 PM |
Divisions
Divisions
Definitely can't do the East/West thing. I mean Ohio State, Penn State, and Michigan in the same divion. We don't need another Big 12.
December 17th, 2009 at 12:36 AM |
Wait -- What?
Wait -- What?
Brian writes:
"You also can't keep all the rivalries together if Pitt is indeed the pick. You try to split this into six team divisions:
Michigan-OSU-MSU
Iowa-Wisconsin-Minnesota
PSU-Pitt
Illinois-Northwestern
Indiana-Purdue"
Wait -- you just *did*, Brian. Put those first two triplets in one division; the last three pairs in the other. There are exactly zero meaningful rivalries lost with this arrangement, and UM v. OSU is retained and could still be the final regular season game; it would probably be for the division title most years, with no repeat matchup in the conference title game. Granted, this arrangement makes the division Michigan is in a bit more loaded for football & hoops, but shouldn't we be OK with facing a tougher schedule / better teams, anyway?
This arrangement works because, even though Ohio is somewhat out of place in either of those directional scenarios, well, who the hell cares where Ohio is, anyway, except south of us (geographically and in every other sense)? So, if you must have some kind of division naming convention, North - South or East - West works if you ignore Ohio, which is a good m.o., regardless.
I really cannot see any other acceptable way of splitting up the conference into divisions if Pitt is indeed the 12th school.
December 21st, 2009 at 7:56 AM |
Thanks for posting the Yosting...
Thanks for posting the Yosting...
That picture... it is now MINE! ALL MINE, I tell you!!! What a great combination of things that I love: all things weird, the Michigan tradition, and (of course) CURLING! This is going to be a great addition to my bar. Thanks!!
"You try to split this into six team divisions:
...
Can't be done without murdering one traditional rivalry or the entire point of putting Pitt in the conference."
1: Michigan-OSU-MSU-Iowa-Wisconsin-Minnesota
2: PSU-Pitt-Illinois-Northwestern-Indiana-Purdue
Why can't this work? (No I don't believe the Fighting Illini who say that we are their rival.)