Unverified Voracity Complains, Lets Go
One more time to the well. This Kampfer thing appears to be over, and I'm still pissed and you should be too. In all likelihood, Steve Kampfer is going to have to skate against the two guys who did this to him next year. Those games are going to be kegs of gunpowder, and Kampfer is going to cringe any time he turns his back. Michigan-Michigan State games for the foreseeable future are going to be reffed into oblivion and still be ugly hack-fests.
Allowing those two to return significantly increases the chances of a second ugly incident in the future. The CCHA failed to meet the bare minimum level of acceptability: lifetime bans against Michigan for both players. The punishment doesn't impact the program or the player in any significant way. We'll all get to see the reward next year. As simply as possible: an incident like this should have repercussions that last longer than the last third of an already-lost season.
As for the two main "blame Michigan!" memes floating out there:
- There's a reason swearing exists, and it's for moments like Saturday. Look: I don't do the penalty box cheer because Red asked everyone not to, and whenever a "F ND" or "F the Buckeyes" chant gets started at any Michigan sporting event I want to find the gel-haired New Jersey frat boys responsible for that travesty and put them back on the boat to Guidoville. Swearing like that is a substitute for being clever, and I hate it.
But the FYS cheer on Saturday was the right emotion at the right time, A ringing loud expression of contempt and disgust was the appropriate reaction. Sometimes "fuck you" is the only appropriate sentiment.
- No, Steve Kampfer's dad shouldn't have "handled it better" or whatever. If you think this, you are probably a robot. Check for a dipstick in your back.
Mendacious, brah. Coming in a distant second to the actions on the ice in repulsiveness has been the reaction of Michigan State's various media organs.
- The official site's mendacious game recap mentions the assault as something spurred by Chris Summers' goal.
- Some necklace-wearing, short-bus-riding, thin-letter-receiving State News knob says "everyone's to blame," which instead of linking to I'll just point at the one two three Michigan blogs that have already taken him apart.
- Even the State News' editorial on the situation, which comes down pretty hard, attempts to paint Kampfer's clean open-ice check as "charging," which like it wasn't. (It also says "U-M hockey fans are known for scripting some of the most brutal and pointed chants in college sports"—which, like, is that a compliment?)
- And multiple people have reported in that some guy on Lansing radio kept focusing on that bad word from above, calling for continuous bench minors to be called on Michigan until it stops.
All of this is "yes… but" stuff. There is no "but" here.
And… okay. With that, I'm done until there's more news to talk about. I've said my bit three or four times now. Yost Built has an extensive recap of everything if you missed anything; the Daily has some more quotes from Kampfer himself.
Something about hockey but not that. The NHL has provided an $8.5 million developmental grant to USA hockey for the first time, which USA hockey will use to beef up the USHL and the NTDP, train referees (free bananas!), and implement some sort of hyper-elite AAA program. WCH has the details. I'm most interested in getting the USHL up to par with the CHL—and by PPG conversion measures the USHL either isn't far off or is right there—so that potential college hockey players aren't tempted to defect for developmental reasons.
Martavious! An article on Florida recruit Nu'keese Richardson takes a Michigan-relevant diversion:
The Blue Devils decided Richardson was a better fit for receiver. Richardson disagreed. He thought about quitting. Then Martavious Odoms stepped in. Odoms, then a junior and now a Michigan Wolverine, spent the summer before the season working with Richardson, teaching him the position.
“Martavious can adjust to a football in the air better than anyone I have ever seen. Nu’Keese has adapted to that as well,” coach Thompson said. “It’s just amazing. You see the ball in the air and you think, ‘You know, how is he going to contort his body? How’s he going to adjust to the ball?’ And somehow, some way, he gets it.”
Odoms also introduced Richardson to the art of the “crack-back.” A crack-back occurs when a receiver charges toward the middle of the field and removes an unsuspecting linebacker from his cleats.
We saw hints of that this year on those wheel routes; I think once Odoms gets used to playing when his leetle body is cold we're going to see him perform very well. A lot of people are touting Gallon or Robinson in the slot, but Odoms is going to prove hard to displace.
GERG! MGoBlue quotes from new DC Greg Robinson's first press conference have been repackaged and placed into newspaper stories already, but whateva I do what I want. Items of note:
- Scheme agnosticism. "There will be times that we will use that style where we can kick down and use a four-man front and there will be times where we are going to look like a three-man front. It's really the utilization of people and trying to take advantage of their strengths."
- Gregism #1? Robinson was asked what his top priority was, given a laundry list of options, and responded: "I think it's all of those things." Greg Robinson's TOP PRIORITY: all things. Things that are not Greg Robinson's TOP PRIORITY: no things.
- I don't even know what this means. "I will be coaching players, and I don't plan to be walking around. I've done a little of that and I didn't like it. And I won't be walking. I will be running."
- Field or booth? "I will be on the field."
Robinson plans on coaching a position, BTW, but doesn't know which one.
Etc.: A bunch of aerial photos of the stadium construction.
There's an awful lot of cussing on this board.
All of you should be ashamed of yourself.
And to think I was considering letting my kid read mgoblog.
Look, it's Yost. It's not like the profanity is getting worse. There's a standard of swearing. It's not like you should be surprised that college kids are cussing and insulting the other team, they've been doing it for decades.
It's like some Full House fan going to a Bob Saget stand-up show and being offended.
"Profanity is the crutch of the inarticulate motherfuckers"
here's a question - red asked the fans to stop the penalty box cheer...what do you think he thinks about "fuck you state?"
they don't just throw out the FYS chant willy nilly at every event. i mean, i heard FU Michigan in BG, OH last Sat (not as a chant, but nonetheless). no one walks around in a Suck Michigan Ftate shirts in july in A2.
2 MSU guys assaulted an M player out of nowhere. kampfer was motionless on the ice for like 5 mins. it was an unprecedented event with malicious intent, at best. this was not michigan squeeking out a 1 pt win at the carrier dome in 1998 where the cuse fans shouted F-U Michigan as the team left the field in victory. this wasn't a rendition of "i don't give a DAMN for the whole state of michigan' chant at a women's volleyball match.
a M player left the building in a gurney after one of the most agregious ice hockey attacks in the last 10 years, at any level.
Harvard: The MICHIGAN of the East
We're not arrogant, we're just better.
egregious.
And FWIW we're not talking Ron Artest coming into the stands beating the crap out of people.
We're talking about something that happened on the ice which for all intents and purpose has no direct effect on the fan other than it happened to a player on the team they support and they witnessed it. Maybe some of them know Kampfer, etc. but at the same time the only people that could be excused from this action would be the Kampfers themselves.
I've been told that during Comley's press conference it was mentioned that Conboy has left the university. I can't get it to play on their official site so I can't confirm that.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090127/SPORTS0201/90...
Right up until the cheap shots on Kampfer Michigan was closing out a season sweep of an instate rival.
What exactly was there to make create a 'powder keg?' All the winning?
I suggest a little perspective. You were attending a sporting event that you were easily winning. It is supposed to be fun.
An angry rioting mob is serious. Not something to be touched off because a ref missed an offsides. We don't live in Columbia.
Give it to Wheatley!
1. Coarse language at a sporting event? Never! Seriously? You're afraid to take your kids to Yost now? Have you ever been there before? "Fuck you" is like puppy-dogs and ice cream cones compared to half the shit they say. If you want to address the general coarseness of society, or the use of profanity at Yost in general, you guys are free to it, but to pretend, as many on this thread are, that this was a unique, or even notable descent into vulgarity are on crack.
2. FWIW, I think Brian's call for banning is a little extreme. Just as I didn't want to see someone like Kevin Grady thrown off the team for his drunk driving incident, I hesitate in taking away a kid's opportunity for a single major transgression. I understand that Conboy seemingly has a reputation, but there's a large leap between "racks up penalty minutes" and "sociopath". A suspension, I think, it the right punishment. We can argue about the length.
3. I don't buy the "poor Kampfer needs to skate against these two again" angle - Kampfer (and, likely, Conboy and Tropp) will be skating around with massive shields of official protection - the next UM/MSU hockey game will be the most closely refereed contest ever.
I took my 4 year old son to a Caps game with me last season. I was worried because the crowd around my seats is generally pretty coarse. They are particularly interested in advertising that Sidney Crosby is a pussy, regardless of the opponent. That night no one said anything bad and one person even chekced themselves for saying crap. I was grateful to those around me. My son had a great time and I felt particularly bad for tricking him into thinking hockey only has 2 periods (because I had an early job interview the next day.)
I'm not sure I would take him to Yost. Since it's a college game I guess the students get to set the tone. However, I do not think college students are entitled to act however they want in public just because they are angry or drunk or stupid or in college. Even college students must exist in society and obey society's mores and rules.
We were all children once. Many of us may be parents. Is it seriously so hard to stop mindlessly indulging yourself once in a while and try to be considerate?
Give it to Wheatley!
I think this implicit expectation that curse words be avoided around children at sporting events is absurd and unrealistic. It's nice when it does happen, but does that mean we should expect it and get huffy when it doesn't happen? Come on.
People swear. Assholes exist. The sun rises and sets. Get over it.
The Wolverine Liberation Army- saving Michigan fans one dick joke at a time.
Let me point out a few things that may be self-evident:
a. You chose to have kids, knowing what the world is like (i.e. that college kids say "fuck" at hockey games). Being perturbed, now, that it is as it is, is disingenuous. (That sentence is like me, grammatically correct but damned ugly.)
b. They're only words. They can't hurt you unless you give them that power.
c. I would suggest that attempting to childproof the world to make your life easier as a parent is also a type of mindless indulgence. There are still things that are adults-only in this life, and that is as it should be. I have no wish to live in Romper Room, and many other child-free people feel the same way. That indignation may be better spent in world-proofing your child. My 8 year-old niece lays a top-drawer guilt trip on me every time I drop a cuss word around her, and it shuts me up even when her 250 pound daddy can't.
Where did I say I wanted to turn the world into Romper Room?
I chose to have kids 'knowing what the world is like?' I don't even know what that means.
When was I trying to childproof the world? I don't even know what 'world proofing your child' means.
Congratulations for not allowing your brother/brother in law to stop you from using profanity in front of his daughter. That is an excellent way to exercise your rights. Your parenting advice is much appreciated.
Give it to Wheatley!
I think it would be wonderful if people took the group of people around them into consideration before they called an opposing player a faggot. I completely agree.
That said, if I were to take my hypothetical child to any sporting event, I wouldn't carry the expectation such a thing would happen. If you take your kid to a sporting event, I think you need to make peace with the fact that he will, in all likliehood, hear curse words.
Kampfer's a big boy; he's not gonna cry home to mama every time he plays State from now on. And he knows his teammates will have his back.
it's COLLEGE hockey, people.... the rule book negates retaliation. there is no such thing as self policing in the college game, which is why the NCAA/CCHA should have looked at a stiffer ban.
and in what century do we get all bent out of shape about curse words?
A: the 18th. get the fuck over it.
Harvard: The MICHIGAN of the East
We're not arrogant, we're just better.
I'm not sure that anyone is bent over curse words. Its justifying them that gets me.
We're removing ourselves from classlessness because of certain events that happened on the ice pissed us off. Give me a break.
That's why they're State or that sort of thing only happens in Columbus are excusable because they're rivals but it's okay in Ann Arbor because incidents on the ice beyond our control pissed us off?
Pot meet kettle.
Well, yeah. That's why the whole "Everyone but Michigan are animals!" meme is incredibly stupid. Yost is the most vicious, aggressive home venue I've ever been to aside from Veteran's stadium during an Eagles game. "Fuck You" is par for the course, pretending this chant is an isolated incident that sticks out from the game in-game out vibe there is ignorance.
Odd, given my previous statements in this thread, I loved the Vet. It was never quite clear who the fans hated most--the other team, their team, or themselves (or Donovan McNabb). Never have I seen home fans so interested in fighting with themselves.
Give it to Wheatley!
Given that you're a Steelers fan, is it possible that watching the fans fight themselves was part of the appeal?
If you were at the game, you would understand the emotion going through the crowd. So don't give me some BS comment like grow up. I am not one of those students for dropping the C**k sucker bomb on hockey cheer. However, I firmly believe the f bomb was a release valve for the students to release our anger throw words rather through actions.
Wow, you take your kids to a sporting event where they witness perhaps the most brutal attack imaginable and you're worried about explaining why some "bad" words were shouted.
How did you explain that attack to your kids?
I know what I think is the real profanity!
Yeah, that is my license plate.
Explaining to kids how and why the attack on the player was absolutely wrong and immoral shouldn't be so difficult provided that this is type of parenting and teaching you've provided that child in the past. My seven year old would know and recognize that this attack was hideous - that's easy to do since we've taught her that unjustifiably attacking others is absolutely wrong (i.e., you only fight when you are defending yourself from attack).
Now explaining to that same seven year old why a bunchof adults who are engaging in a behavior you've explained to her as wrong (i.e., chanting swear words) will not be quite as easy and less likely to be understood. So, its okay to curse at others provided we're upset? Wrong.
LOL....wow
It shouldn't be that hard. The crowd was P'ed off and was resorting to swear words to release their adrenaline. Come on it is basic human psychology (aka something you would pick up in psych 101).
The understanding of mob mentality is basic psychology but basic psychology doesn't condone this behavior.
Don't bring your PSY101 on me. I have a businesses degree that is largely rooted in psychology and was raised by a psychologist.
The actions are wrong - pissed off or not.
and my theory is based on what researchers already known about the neurotransmitter response to the sympathetic response. They were not classy, but it was not darn better response to the powder keg atmosphere in Yost last Saturday than what could have happened.
But hey have fun on the moral high horse of yours. Tell Jim Carty I said Hi.
Did Kris Draper and Red Wing fans demand Claude Lemieux be banned from ever playing Detroit after he suckered Draper and broke his jaw? No, the next game McCarty pounded the shit out of him and it was over
Can't do that in college hockey - there is little to no self policing. As Brian notes, there will be zero tolerance for retaliation during the matchups next years, and while those two are on the ice there will be at least six eyes on them at all times to make sure Michigan does not take its revenge on their watch. The first time someone breaths on Tropp or Conboy, they will be taken to the box.
On another note, while the USHL has improved by leaps and bounds over the year, it is still going to be primarily a feed for the US College programs unless more and more NHL teams start criticizing the college programs like the Islanders did with Minnesota with Kyle Okposo. Hoping to make the USHL comprarble to the OHL is still a bit unrealistic given the depth of the pool the OHL (even with the QMJHL and WHL for competition) and not fair to the league which does a good job of developing guys for their likely next level - US college. While a good number of these players eventually end up in the pro-ranks, that is not the traditional next stop. As the depth of US hockey players continues to grow, the USHL product will continue to improve.
We can't run. We can't pass. We can't stop the run. We can't stop the pass. We can't kick. Other than that, we're just not a very good football team right now. - Bruce Coslet
I agree with Brian on this one. File this away and wait for next year. If the M/msu games go off without a hitch, then Brian (and those of us who agree) are dead wrong.
Yeah, that is my license plate.
1) Chanting obscenities at a sporting event is never acceptable - no matter the circumstances. Yes, even in an act as dispicable (sp?) as this.
2) Yes, Kampfers father should have handled it better. Go be with son .. not try to kick the ass of person who put him in that situation. Sure, our psyche is quite damaged when something of this magnitude happens to someone close to us/we love but handling things by ourselves is highly unadviseable. Nevermind that attacking someone without cause (cause and justification are two different things) is still known as assault.
3) Lost season or not .. a suspension covering 33% of a season is a pretty large suspension. Are we mandating that suspensions be based on something else other than the timing og the issue. So when football coaches suspend a player for a game and that game is against Joe Blow St this remains okay even though the next game is against a caliber of team like USC.
4) If anything these guys should be dismissed. I agree with that .. but the system is flawed and it is the system that should be attacked.
the fuck you chant is out of bounds.
i went to the fab five game at breslin (with a friend and his two sons), and it was the worst crowd i've ever seen, just appalling and offensive on every level.
but, as brian has written, that's why they're state.
defending a 'fuck you' chant because of the circumstances is obviously just another example of the "yes, but..." stuff that brian points out on the other side.
again, that's why THEY'RE state.
again, you were not at the game. So you didn't feel the frustration and anger that was going throw the crowd. What the students did was basic human behavior. The students anger reached a breaking point and mob mentality at its best took over. Some crowds throw crap (tO$U, MSU), some riot (British soccer), and some yell obsentities. Was it classy? Hell no. but was it the right move, you bet it was.
Things get thrown at UofM too. No school is above reproach on that.
Swearing at a public sporting event is just plain wrong no matter the circumstance. It was a disgusting act, period, and there is nothing that can be said that can change that.
Showing your disapproval through foul language due to 'mob mentality' or 'as an avenue to show your disgust' doesn't disqualify this as an action that is completely wrong - regardless of the precipatating event.
I wasn't there .. I get that .. but I have seen many malicious hits in sporting events and such and I have never been in a crowd that reacted in such a manner. As if the crowd has some serious effect on what led to or followed that event other than bearing witness to the event.
I feel bad for Kampfer but one of the things I was taught at a young age was don't make a bad situation worse. Chanting what was chanted potentially makes the situation worse.
I wish we could act like robots and let that assault roll of our backs like you suggest. However, this is the real world. People have adrenaline and basic mob mentality is apart of our primitive human psychology. So how do you want the students to act? Hold the powder keg of emotion in? Yeah, basic psychology tells us that will end well... I am willing to bet anything you would have seen several students in the crime report of the ann arbor news if we didn't release that adrenaline. Most likely me included. My seats were a couple rows above the Kampfer's.
This emphasis on naughty words in the first place is what made our society put more emphasis on blocking out swearing on tv than violence. Whatever, I was raised to detest violence above all else. The whining about curse words is just a basic strawman fallacy for sparty to somehow displace their guilt and anger.
that's EXACTLY how i want us fans to act. i want us to show class and dignity, to not lower ourselves to the level of the ohio state / msu / n.d. "fuck michigan" t-shirt types. we're better than that, or we're supposed to be.
i have no problem whatsoever with you being pissed off. i am, too, and i would have booed and booed and booed. but to defend chanting "fuck you" at the top of your lungs for five minutes with nothing more than a "well, we were REALLY pissed"...well, i don't buy it, and i absolutely refuse to accept "mob mentality" as a defense.
When you have 5 seconds to react I seriously doubt you will not go with mob mentality (that is basic human behavior imprinted in the most primitive parts of our brains, of course if have a kid which changes everything (also basic human psychology, where your parental protective relexes take over). If you don't go with the mob mentality (if you don't have a kid) then you are better than 98% (just a random number) of human beings world wide. Congrats. All I am asking for is to understand why we did it. It is basic human psychology.
Your basic understanding of psychology isn't very deep. Yes the underlying theme of mob mentality would say as it swells the outcome isn't likely to be good. However, most psychologists would suggest that individuals ought to possess the mental capacity to not engage in such behavior. If mob mentality was a pure psychological defense I would also believe our legal system would have adopted rules to accomodate such a defense.
For a more simple read on that reead: it's a lousy excuse for lousy behavior.
To say that you released your anger through screaming the f word and this absolved your anger and allowed you to leave in peace is a load if you ask me. You are simply justifying actions which are not justifiable.
Nobody is happy about this situation, nobody, but justifying the use of the chant is ridiculous. Civil minded individuals should be able to walk away from this situation with honor - meaning with the ability to not punch a fan of the opposing team (a fan who had nothing to do with the situation and likely feels as bad for the Kampfers as anyone else) or chant the f word towards the opposing team.
Give me a break - grow up.
Basic psychology (my minor, I specialized in molecular neurology during my undergrad) would tell you that the shear amount of anger and epinephrine built up in you has to be released somehow. Most people when they get this angry bottle up or find some release (playing with your kids, exercise, music, or whatever can give you an outlet) When anger and the concentration of adrenaline builds up your behavior shifts from the cerebrum to your hypothalamus and increases the concentration noradrenergic activity released. During that quick time period you don't have time to analyze the situation properly like a relaxed individual. Sure I shouldn't have shouted F You sparty at the top of my lungs, but you know what it allowed me to release the stress built up and I was relaxed after wards, aka an adrenaline output. Usually when I am that mad, I go out for a 10 mile run. Guess what I didn't have my running shoes or gear with me. Combined with the amount of adrenaline flowing, the fight or flight response (sympathetic response) will take over and interfere with intelligent human reasoning.
Don't give me this BS about growing up. Find a new phrase to show your disagreement with me. I am perfectly grown up. This just was an instance where my scientific approach to life was not active at that moment. So sue me.
Furthermore, why such a build up in adrenaline and epinephrine whilst watching a sporting event; it isn't as if you're participating in said event.
You might want to check your emotions at the gate next time as its a little frightening to think you might want to kick my ass at a sporting event because a call or a circumstance out of your control may effect your overall behavior/psyche.
then don't sit next to me at a sporting event. By the way I sit two rows above the Kampfers. Emotions were flowing pretty heavily in that general area.
but hey, maybe someday we can live in your world where we can have tea while watching the game and leave emotions at the door like robots.
Way to show your maturity level there tough guy .. so sue me. Lame.
Listen, justifying your behavior through mob mentality is an absolute joke.
I could quite honestly not give two shits how you choose to act in a public place as that is your dilemma to live with and not mine. However, justifying actions which are easily unjustifiable is ludicrous and falls back to the whole, 'so if everyone is jumping off a bridge are you too going to jump off that bridge'. Are you trying to say if the mob mentality was to start beating the shit out of all the green and white in the building you would have been inclined to join in because at that instance you didn't know how to properly control your anger?
Give me a break .. it was an opportunity for you and your fellow students (and whoever else) to take a pot shot at State and not a shot at the individuals who were responsible for the heinous acts - you know the two who should largely be held responsible for the incident.
I don't know maybe I care less if the chant is F You (player name) as opposed to what it was .. I don't know. But to suggest that releasing your anger, through mob mentality, it justifiable when the chant isn't even necessarily being directed at the offenders is what makes your argument a load of bull.
So just simply understand what it is .. college students acting like college students do ... which is fine. But there also comes a time to .....
grow up.
I am not saying whether it was right or not according your sensible set of morals, but at that moment of time, the atmosphere in Yost was a powder keg. Use common sense here. I wonder what will happen if a large group of 18-25 year olds (have to include grad students) that are pissed off as hell are going to do when their rival assaults the feel good player of the year in front of them? Combine that with a false sense of invincibility and hormones, you have recipe for disaster. I don't care what university you are at the same thing will occur. Even at the vaulted ivies (honestly, if you detest swearing so much I suggest you never sit near the Cornell pep band...).
please calm down with your grow up comments. They are lame as heck and don't offer an ounce of strength to your argument. In fact, it harms as it is nothing but an ad hominem comment.
I hardly detest swearing as you suggest. I swear like a sailor to use the old cliche. My band is highly offensive and foul at times as well.
Its part of life and part of entertainment.
What I disagree with here is the position you've staked on mob mentality as a justification for acting like a jackass.
I've attended many of sporting events ... I understand the context of emotions and yes I get riled up at poor calls (from my perspective), bad playing, cheap shots, etc. and so forth. But you lost me when you said something to the effect of it was better to yell FYS than to let the rage build inside and something worse happen.
What you don't seem to understand is nothing worse had to happen. Yeah, kicking the snot out of a Spartan that night or slashing their tires would have been worse than the chant but in all actuality neither needed to happen and its highly unlikely that the chant was what prevented the raucous behavior to get out of hand. It was likely common sense that said 'gee, I probably shouldn't assault any Spartans or vandalize any of their property because that wouldn't make me any better than the SOBs that just assaulted Kampfer on the ice.'
Get a clue ... your take on this is childish. Just like chanting FYS is a childish response to a very poor situation. I am sure emotions were high but that doesn't excuse a poor choice in behavior.
and yet you have not offered a logical explanation how that built up emotion and anger (redundant statement, i know) was going to be released. The student was a powder keg, that is a fact.
I've attended many of sporting events ... I understand the context of emotions and yes I get riled up at poor calls (from my perspective), bad playing, cheap shots, etc. and so forth. But you lost me when you said something to the effect of it was better to yell FYS than to let the rage build inside and something worse happen.
>>>So you want the built up emotion to be released in some other manner than a simple and effective F You. At that moment there with the amount of adrenaline and hormones going something bad was going to happen (my friend who sits next to me said to me during the 2nd period, that he had a bad feeling something was going to happen during the game). We could have thrown crap at the MSU bench, fans, vandalized msu cars, tipped over the msu bus like they do in E. Lansing or Columbus. but we didn't. like I have said before, that emotion was going to be let out and the F you was the pressure release. It was not classy but it was a far better choice of action than what sparty or buckeyes would have done. We are students with a lot of hormones and emotions.
I don't why i keep responded to you when you keep throwing out that dumb ending of growing up like you are on some high moral platform. If anything it damages your arguments and makes you look like jim carty. Ad hominem statemens never work in an argument.
It is obvious I will never agree with you.
Your indicating that at MSU and OSU that they tip over cars belonging to opponents fans and that their actions are far different from what happens at UM? You're kidding yourself.
For one, I attended MSU. No, it wasn't because I couldn't get into UM but because they had the better program for what I was going into at that time. I have never bore witness to car tipping, throwing of items at opposing fans, etc. I did happen to witness the general 'give em heck' that I have experienced at every single college campus I have ever set foot on.
I've been to Columbus for a lot of sporting events and grew up a Buckeye fan (so what am I doing on this blog .. I live in Michigan, write a blog for the Columbus Dispatch during football season, and have tremendous respect for Brian, so I come and read and on occasion get involved in commenting). They're certainly not the best in Columbus and I have seen things I was not proud of. I have, however, never witnessed an assault at Ohio State, a car being tipped over, or otherwise. I'm sure it has happened, just as I am sure it has happened at nearly every other college campus in this nation, world, or otherwise.
I don't have a recommendation on what the reaction should have been other than to say it shouldn't have been that (I did however say that maybe the FY chant directed specifially at the offending players as opposed to the institution as whole may have been a better choice). Not if you plan to hold yourself to a higher standard than the institutions mentioned. IMHO you no longer can do so; actually it was my opinion a long time ago that you shouldn't.
I think it is perfectly logical to have walked away from that situation without having chanted FYS or having felt the urge to kick someone's ass. I've done it myself and I have seen it done. To continue to justify it through this 'powder keg' of emotion or through mob mentality is ludicrous. It would have been, (gasp) the adult thing to do.
Just admit it, you had a few too many daquiris before the game and were a little saucy .. you saw an opportunity to slam Sparty and you took it. I've seen it done in Ann Arbor under far different circumstance (although usually under the guise of humor) and this is no different. Pissed off or not your justifications are ridiculous at best. It's fine your emotions got the best of you (it happens) but at some point in your life you'll have to learn how to not allow that to happen or every Tom, Dick, Harry, and Sally is going to have their way with you whenever things get tough.
So do we entirely disagree .. no .. I understand why it happened. I just think trying to justify it as an okay event is incorrect. How else do you handle it .. check down, get a hold of yourself, realize there is nothing you can do to change or alter the situation, that Kampfer is going to be fine, and walk away. Nothing that happened helped the situation any ... nothing.
Ahhh you are a spartoon now I know why you are so uppity about this and obsessed with this strawman argument to displace the FYS guilt for what happened on Saturday night.
FYI, I didn't have anything to drink saturday night. Neither did any of my friends in my section. However, you can bet that I did head on over to AC Cubs after the game for a couple drinks to get over the fricken disaster of Saturday night. You are not a Michigan and you haven't met some of the hockey parents like I have.
Don't give me this BS, worst would not have happened in E. Lansing or Columbus. That is completely false. I have gone to football games (Purdue/MSU) at E. Lansing and I had batteries and full beer cans thrown at me. The perfect evidence for the lack of respect spartoons have for opposing fans is your entire student section chanting a loud as heck asshole towards Jack Johnson after the Johnson/Kolarick sandwich hit on Abdelkader. Don't even get me started on my friend who was sexually assaulted walking out of Munn after a Michian/MSU game for only wearing a Michigan hockey jersey. Your annual riots at cedarfest pretty much sums up the goonery at MSU. Don't get me started on ohio state. There is a reason Mary Sue Coleman urges students traveling to Columbus for the Game to rent cars with Ohio plates in Toledo. Just search Ohio state fans on youtube and see the "great" example those morons set for Ohio State. Especially the video showing Ohio State fans urinating on michigan fans.
Sure MSU has some great academic programs. My second summer research internship in biochemistry was at MSU's biochemistry department. MSU was my third choice for graduate school after Carnegie Mellon and Michigan.
In closing F*ck you state!
No, actually the reason I am holding on to this argument so strong is I was personally assaulted outside of Michigan Stadium at the age of 16 by a very older, grown man, who should have known better.
It happens everywhere ... every campus. There are idiots everywhere. I've heard the nasty stories from every campus that people have set foot on ... from what I heard nobody has a thing on Wisconsin.
FWIW, I never got my degree from State. I left for home after meeting my wife while home for the summer and got my degree from a different university.
My allegiance for the Spartans or the Buckeyes has little to do with this argument buddy. The fact of the matter is what is wrong is wrong. Trangressions at MSU, OSU, PSU, or UM are wrong regardless of the color of the shirt I am wearing and the allegiance in my heart. I can see that as clear as day.
And, yeah, I hate the asshole chant that the Spartans seem to employ at every home event. Never particpated in it and I despise it. I've also told Buckeye fans to chill when I have seen them act up ...
Doesn't make me better than anyone else .. it's just doing the right thing.
"I will be coaching players, and I don't plan to be walking around. I've done a little of that and I didn't like it. And I won't be walking. I will be running."
--I think Robinson is saying he's not going to just be some sort of observer while the position coaches do the actual work. Or maybe he's just saying, as Barwis might, that he doesn't like walking, b/c walking is for wimps and liberal arts professors.
"That's horrible"
"Terrible is what it is."
I keep seeing people call Greg Robinson "Gerg". Call me naive, but is this a joke I missed or something? If so, sorry for having to have you explain the joke.
I think it started at EDSBS.
Come on.
Brian I love you in a bromantic sorta way, but when in the history of sports has a player been banned in play against one particular opponent?
Please fill me in if I am wrong in thinking that this has never happened, aside from maybe a one-game suspension from next year's game or something.
I think the punishment was fine, and right on. Yes, Conboy suckerpunched Kampfer. This happens a lot in hockey. People don't get lifetime bans for it. Yes, Tropp slashed a guy on the ground. But let's be fair this wasn't anything close to the kind of slash Brashear took from McSorley.
"State's season is over." So what? Just because State sucks this year, you're telling me Conboy and Tropp don't still want to play real bad?
Kampfer's a big boy; he's not gonna cry home to mama every time he plays State from now on. And he knows his teammates will have his back.
Brian didn't suggest this, read more carefully. He suggested that they get lifetime bans, period. From every game.
It's Great to Be A Michigan Wolverine