Unverified Voracity On The Ceiling Comment Count

Brian

tate-forcier-sistine-chapel

via reader Brian Hale

Take his and graduate 'em, take yours and graduate 'em. It's not noble to take guys with two good parents and a Catholic-school education and not screw them up. That's one of the things that's always bothered me about Notre Dame's smugness. They've positioned themselves as the nationwide destination for kids who end up at places like Oaks Christian, and when these kids fail to screw up they take pride in it. Michigan, meanwhile, has been more willing to take on potentially troubled kids. Not as willing as some other schools, but willing.

This is always spun as a negative when you get a Feagin situation. When you take kids out of Pahokee or Detroit or Delray Beach who did not go to a good high school and didn't have a stable home life and are just looking for a way out, some of them are not going to overcome their backgrounds. It's tough to do that. It's no accomplishment to graduate Craig Roh. That kid grew up like  an enormous, athletic, magnificently-eyebrowed version of me; he's going to graduate no matter where he is. It's a risk to stick out your neck for a talented kid who went to a school with textbooks from 1978 where dropouts are more common than graduates.

The reason I bring it up is an epic article on Pahokee, the home of three current Wolverines, in the Daily. I've been reading the Daily for twelve years now and it's without question the best article to appear in it in that time frame. It wouldn't seem out of place if you threw it up on ESPN.com in one of those fancy presentations they give Wright Thompson. It highlights the environment these guys come from:

He pops in one of the myriad discs. It’s a guerrilla-style video called “Palm Beach County: Gangstas and Thugs.” Local gun-toting gang members flash across the screen, beating each other senseless and shooting AK-47s into the air.

“That’s my cousin; he’s in jail,” he says pointing, to the screen. “Oh, and that kid’s dead. He was 17.”

Trouble in such places is easier to get into than avoid, and honestly working with these kids so that they get out of college and go somewhere else is a calling beyond giving kids who went to Catholic school calculus exams. Michigan has to live up to that charge, of course. In four to six years we'll have Rodriguez's graduation numbers, and in five more we'll have some sense of how the institution has served them. I'll be watching it carefully. I hope—and think—Michigan will do right by them. They are owed that.

No, you can't do that. Apparently ABC never showed the Armando Allen taunting penalty, but the News got a shot of it:

armando-allen-unsportsmanlike-conductNCAA rulebook on unsportsmanlike conduct:

a.  Specifically prohibited acts and conduct include:

1.  No player, substitute, coach or other person subject to the rules shall  use abusive, threatening or obscene language or gestures, or engage in such acts that provoke ill will or are demeaning to an opponent, to game officials or to the image of the game, including but not limited to:

(b) Taunting, baiting or ridiculing an opponent verbally.

(c) Inciting an opponent or spectators in any other way, such as simulating the firing of a weapon or placing a hand by the ear to request recognition.

Ssssh-ing the student section is an obvious flag that will get called 1000 of 1000 times. It doesn't matter if he said anything or not. Weis being an ass in the postgame (no, seriously, watch his bitchy press conference… what a horror it would be to have such a thoroughly unlikeable person* in charge of your football team):

"Armando was really distraught at the end of the game, because he felt that he  got called for a 15-yard penalty for going 'shhhh' when he got to the end zone," Weis said. "Now I guess, technically, that's taunting, but he felt really bad about that and I told him we're all part of this loss and don't put it all on your shoulders."

Indeed, it is "technically" taunting in the way Michigan's pass to Mathews was "technically" a touchdown. Meanwhile on that same play, Clausen was doing a fey little dance that could have drawn another flag. Why must Weis recruit these thugs? Why can't he have nice boys like Greg Mathews, who politely handed the ball to the referee after his gamewinning touchdown?

A note on one of the other ND refereeing complaints: Theo Riddick did touch that kickoff, as was extensively discussed on Sportscenter, so running two seconds off the clock was appropriate. And when Tate caught the ball on the last play of the game and got tackled with one second left, the key distinction to note is that the official timekeeper doesn't stop when he thinks the play is over—not his job—but when the referee signals him to. You can clearly see that the referee signals to stop the clock well after :00 is hit. (Yes, maybe that's a conspiracy too.)

*(dollars to donuts that caused any West Virginia, Michigan State, or Ohio State fan reading it to have a head asplode moment, but… seriously. Watch the video. There is no comparison between that and corny jokes and twang.)

Tempting fate. If Michigan loses the next two weeks you can stick my head in a blender for what I'm about to do.

Let's talk about Michigan State, Michigan's first road game of the season and next opponent against whom the spread will be in the single digits. State lost to Central Michigan in quintessential "Sparty, No!" fashion, but don't let the flukes at the end of the game overshadow the overall theme of the day. A worried The Only Colors explains:

While hanging our heads obviously doesn't do any good, I really have a hard time seeing Saturday's outcome as a fluke.  Sure, the events of the final 30 seconds all broke in the Chippewas' favor.  But we'd been outplayed by a significant margin for the 59 minutes and 30 seconds that preceded those 30 seconds--outgained by 74 yards and outconverted by 8 first downs.  And when it mattered most, we couldn't stop them.  Central gained a total of 147 yards to reach the endzone on both of its final two non-onside-kick-commenced drives.  We were lucky to be in position to win the game with 30 seconds to go.

Maybe CMU's a top-40 team and this loss isn't quite as bad as it looks right now.  But they certainly didn't look like a top-40 team against Arizona a week ago.  And you have to beat top 40 teams at home to get to a New Years Day bowl.

That is a strong indication that internet skepticism over a team that was outgained in conference play last year was better founded than the assembled Big Ten Media's assertion that Michigan State was the third-best team in the conference. Not that we needed anyone to tell us that the internet tends to do better research than newspapers. State should get better as Kirk Cousins solidifies his hold on the starting quarterback spot, but after some initial optimism in the comments that post bogs down into pessimism about a ton of things, most prominently the pass rush.

Compounding things for State in their matchup against Michigan: Central Michigan is headed by the Rich Rodriguez coaching tree, also known as Butch Jones, and quarterbacked by Dan LeFevour, a mobile, accurate quarterback that's a more veteran but less hyped version of Tate Forcier. LeFevour was 33 of 46 for 328 yards, three touchdowns, and an interception. The State game now looks very winnable.

The move? Freshman Cameron Gordon's seemingly inevitable move to linebacker may be a fait accompli according to MGoPoster Jaggs:

Was at the ND game this weekend and my dad ran into a guy purporting to be Cam Gordon's dad (I have no reason to doubt it was him). The guy told my dad he was a father of a player on the team etc, and my dad asked him who he said his name which my dad forgot but remembered the guy said #84 a linebacker. A quick search of the program and mgoblue.com shows Gordon as the only #84 so sounds like Gordon.

Quick check shows 86 points, which isn't much, but also that this guy's been registered for eight months. Credibility rating: at least moderate. We're still looking for confirmation and will provide it if/when it comes.

Yeesh. I think this was just an mgolicious link. The numbers say, I don't know, something:

3. Inbound links checked daily. The day before I visited, logs for the Chronicle’s WordPress site reported that it had drawn 277 visitors from a local sports blog, 28 from a local school blog and 23 from annarbor.com, the reincarnated Ann Arbor News.

Probably what it says is that AA.com's traffic is far more dispersed, where this site is basically a single framework with varying content presented.

Etc.: Been struck with a burning desire to have Zoltan's biff immortalized for all time on your wall? Michigan obliges. Bleed Scarlet notes the one-year anniversary of David Foster Wallace's suicide.

Comments

Chris of Dange…

September 14th, 2009 at 3:46 PM ^

...if the refs determined that Tate fumbled the ball out of bounds on purpose in order to stop the clock. Then it would have been a five-yard penalty, loss of down, and a wound clock.

In a delicious coincidence, Rule 7-2-1 ("A ball carrier may hand or pass the ball backward at any time, except to throw the ball intentionally out of bounds to conserve time") exists because of the play immediately before Anthony Carter's game-winning catch (and subsequent Bob Ufer freakout) against IU in 1979. Lawrence Reid threw the ball out of bounds to stop the clock and conserve the six seconds that are so memorable to any U-M fan over 40.

The following year (or so), the NCAA changed the rules to forbid what Reid did.

Seth

September 14th, 2009 at 2:58 PM ^

Quick note on Delray.

My grandparents used to winter there (the great annual Jewriatric Migration) so I got to visit Delray Beach once or twice a year.

It's not Pahokee.

It's more like what you see in Get Shorty. It's a cute, pretty downtown where kids visiting their grandparents are walking around with ice cream. And sunny, palm tree-lined avenues like George Bush Boulevard. And a pretty beach.

From Wikipedia:

In recent years, Downtown Delray, located in the eastern part of the city, along Atlantic Avenue, east of I-95 and stretching to the beach, has undergone a large scale renovation. This area is now home to several upscale restaurants and several different assorted shops. Major driving factors in this renovation have been the business brought to the area by the Delray Beach Tennis Center, which has hosted several major international tennis events

Then you have I-95. And there the streets all stop, the retirement community ends, and suddenly it stops being Jewish grandmas and becomes African American urban ghetto. The area that in the 1990s was one of America's biggest crack zones. That's Delray.

Apparently, after WWII when developers realized the value of Florida's coastline, they used some pretty nasty tricks to shove the post-Civil War African American community away from the water. I-95 was purposely built as a dividing line between the development property and the locals' province.

The hotels and the big mall and the ice cream store and the movie theater all employ the folks to the West of I-95, but aside from that, the only interaction between these two communities is when you see the (white) policemen of Delray Beach shooing the (black) downtown interlopers out of town. "Loitering" is a loosely defined and broadly applied term.

And as much as the whites antagonized the blacks, the blacks antagonized the Haitians, or were played off of them.

In case you haven't picked up on this yet, this segregation disgusted me. I was never so glad that I lived in the Midwest, where humans (generally) treat each other as humans.

Anyway, coming from Delray isn't coming from Pahokee. It's not the swamp. The closest analogue in Michigan I could think of would be if they put Charlevoix or Harbor Springs next to Lansing or Pontiac...or Grand Haven next to Muskegon I guess.

MH20

September 14th, 2009 at 4:51 PM ^

Think Seaway Drive instead of I-95 and you've got your analogy. I don't believe it to be even close to the degree that you describe in Delray, but it certainly fits in the mold of two very different areas separated by a landmark of sorts.

For reference, I'm from Norton Shores. It's mostly white, affluent upper-middle class families with pretty large homes. My home wasn't massive by any means, but it wasn't teeny-tiny, either. My dad grew up in the Heights and my grandma lived there 'til I was about 12 (I am 26), albeit not very far from Seaway (just a few blocks). But lo! My grandma sent all five of her children to Muskegon Catholic Central!

Seth

September 15th, 2009 at 9:51 AM ^

The dichotomy I thought was especially pronounced not just because of the racial divide, but because the "good" part was taken over by vacationers. In the middle of the summer, that part of town that has the ocean breeze and air conditioning and tons of pools and the beach, etc., is mostly empty, while the year-rounders are tucked back in the sweltering interior.

The greatest insult was the cops finding excuses to move the young people from West of I-95 out of downtown -- who are the real invaders?

And wouldn't you know it, somehow living like this (surprise!) created a bunch of racial tension.

I've spent a lot of time in Grand Haven. If someone at Coast Guard Festival made a racist comment, the 10 nearest people would beat the shit out of him. Misopogal and I sat between two interracial couples and their children at this year's parade, and there wasn't even a thought of someone making a comment, or even it being an issue.

Not so, in my experience, Delray Beach, where the favorite dinner conversation was how bad the service was as X place because of lazy person from race Y. It comes up about as often as you would expect homosexuality to come up among a group of frat guys.

I don't want to make it out like these were bad people. Of those I knew, they were good folks. An old guy who had stories about 100s of patents he worked with during WWII for technology we wouldn't see until the '90s. A kind aunt who always checked in on my grandparents and played bridge with all the gals whose husbands no longer came down. A young professional in real estate who wanted to get an art museum in town. A couple of teenage girls who got really into Euchre when I taught it to them.

All I could think of was that living there made them think this way. Segregating society, and then having the only interaction be when either side is at their most stereotypical...there's close, but there's nothing quite like that here. There's the line when 8-mile becomes Vernier, but the Eastland Center Mall shoppers are as mixed as the clerks. The poor Muskegon kids that hang around the skate park are as many different colors as their boards.

And again, nobody talks like that, or at least not that openly in public places, because it's unacceptable, because we all live in such close proximity to each other that we've learned how to respect each other.

A Case of Blue

September 15th, 2009 at 12:05 AM ^

FWIW, I'm quickly learning (I moved down to Palm Beach County recently) that it's like that all along I-95.

But also, like I posted on the other thread, the Muck is like very few other places in this country. It's not just that people there are poor. It's that, from what I hear, there's no plumbing or electricity in some homes in Belle Glade, for example. (That may be a rumor, but it wouldn't surprise me.) Quite literally, it looks like a Third World country, and that comes from someone who's spent a fair amount of time in Central America.

I can't recommend enough that people who are interested in where some of our players come from watch the video I'm going to link to, where the kid reporter Damon Weaver (he's interviewed a bunch of famous people, among them President Obama and Vice-President Biden) talks about gun violence in Pahokee, where he lives.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGTxOWmPdaw

Wolverine318

September 15th, 2009 at 10:33 AM ^

I grew up in Norton Shores, 10 min north of Grand Haven. It is a small suburb of mostly white, middle to upper class individuals. From what I understand of Norton Shores' history is that the city was created through the "white flight" after WWII to Vietnam, when white individuals that were the managers and engineers of the engine and auto parts factories of Muskegon fled to the higher property values of the shoreline. This is left Muskegon Heights predominantly african-american and low income. There is a huge class divide between Mona Shores School District and Muskegon Heights School District and somewhat Muskegon School district, (excluding the lakeshore area), and Orchard View that existed before schools of choice was adopted. However, this divide is not even approaching the level of Pahokee. The closest I can think of his Benton Harbor and St. Joseph.

fredsaysbtdabks

September 14th, 2009 at 3:02 PM ^

ND had won?

Feeling bad for doing something you know is wrong is one thing, feeling bad only when things don't go your way is another.

My wife, when shown the taunt, immediately said "that's a reflection of coaching." She's right - note that Matthews knew he was doing something wrong and immediately corrected it on his TD celebration. That too is coaching and I'm very pleased with the coach we have.

mooseman

September 14th, 2009 at 5:37 PM ^

It seems that Matthews has come a long way from a maturity standpoint. It seemed to be that he was often in the middle of things (a few pregame things such as at Cap One bowl, I believe).

There were a decent number of things in the waning days of Carr that were bordering on embarrassing culminating in some scenes at the Cap One bowl (nothing terrible, but more than UM has had historically).

The team, from this standpoint, has seemed more disciplined under RR, which as an old fart, I like.

DCBlue

September 15th, 2009 at 12:16 AM ^

I'm pretty sure that both Bo and Lloyd would have had some pretty stern words for Forcier when he ran in for the touchdown pointing his finger to the crowd and holding the ball up. For that matter, Moeller bitched out Desmond Howard after he did the Heisman pose against Ohio State.

Feat of Clay

September 14th, 2009 at 3:05 PM ^

I died a little inside reading that Daily article. It's excellent, but it just makes me die inside to be reminded what some of these kids are dealing with outside of the football program.

Bronco648

September 14th, 2009 at 3:08 PM ^

In a "big" game such as this, it's obviously very easy for all of the players to be raring to go. However, all it takes is for one player to complement the other after a play ("nice catch", "nice tackle") and give them a helmet slap or perhaps even help them up. If this happens early enough in the game, all of the chippyness seems to disappear and you have a respectful contest. Otherwise, you end up with a lot of woofin' and smack talking. No doubt, a personal foul will be called at some point. I must be old school but I find it hard to understand how you can berate your opponent for 60 minutes and then shake his hand and give him a hug. Players running their mouths is my least favorite part of the game.

WolverineHistorian

September 14th, 2009 at 3:11 PM ^

Thanks for the official rules about taunting. I know that rule has been around for a long time.

Tom Brady's senior year, we played Wisconsin in Madison and Brady fired off a 45 yard pass to David Terrel which put us around the Badger 20 yard line. As soon as Terrel got up, he glared at the Wisconsin fans for 2 seconds and put his hands on his hips. The refs threw a flag for unsportsmanlike conduct which pushed us out of field goal range and we ended up punting.

In 1997, Ohio State played Penn State in Happy Valley. David Boston, (jackass, I know) caught a TD pass and glared at the PSU student section for probably 4 seconds. No hand gestures, he just glared and he was flagged.

Football is an emotional game and players can get carried away. But even the slightest things are going to get flagged..the ones that are seen at least. And players on BOTH sides should know that.

Heck, in Lloyd Carr's final game against Florida, Mike Hart ran it in for a score to put us up 28-14 and he started talking crap with one of the Florida defenders. I was afraid and shocked he didn't get flagged for that.

redcedar87

September 14th, 2009 at 3:11 PM ^

"It's a risk to stick out your neck for a talented kid who went to a school with textbooks from 1978 where dropouts are more common than graduates."

Love,

the SEC

blue note

September 14th, 2009 at 3:16 PM ^

Brian, I know you feel the need to defend every single thing that benefits Michigan in a game, but come on, that excessive celebration penalty in that situation was absolutely ridiculous. If that had happened to M we all would have gone apeshit. Trying to justify it makes us sound like mega-apologists.

It's far from a open and shut case. Putting a finger to your mouth is inciting the crowd? Is pointing to the student section - or the visiting student section- after you score inciting the crowd? Pointing to your family? Jumping up and down in front of the opposing crowd? Spiking the ball, thumping your chest? How are any of those different than a shhh? Either you make a disruptive/obscene gesture (throat slash) or you are clearly taunting a player/coach etc. Those should be penalties, otherwise don't try to decide the game. Same thing as the Locker toss the ball in the air after the BYU-Wash game last year.

Refs feeling the need to decide the game just bugs me. Reminds me of the destruction that referees have brought on the NBA.

Alton

September 14th, 2009 at 3:33 PM ^

Except this is always how Big Ten refs have called it. Any celebratory gesture made to draw attention to yourself is an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty, and has been ever since a clarification (the one that Brian quoted) went into the rule books for the 1999 season.

Making a fraternity sign, pointing or glaring at the crowd or opponents, anything done to incite: these are penalties, period. The question of whether or not they should be penalties is moot for our purposes; the conference refs are consistent within the game, and they are consistent from game to game.

Not all conferences are as stringent on this call, but not all conferences are as conservative as the Big Ten.

Erik_in_Dayton

September 14th, 2009 at 3:36 PM ^

I wasn't in the student section but, FWIW, people are saying that you could hear him say, "Shut up, you faggots" or something to that effect to the crowd. You might ask, "How could you hear that in such a loud stadium?" and my answer would be: A. It's not loud when the opposing team scores and B. the ref was three feet away from him.

Dix

September 14th, 2009 at 3:17 PM ^

Gotta say, Zoltan's imperial influence extends far indeed. Even in a moment of shame, the photograph memorializing the moment depicts him in full glory, as if he lead the charge under the banner and graced the audience with an "air punt", a mere taste of the real thing which was yet to come...

bouje

September 14th, 2009 at 3:33 PM ^

where he trotted into the endzone with the ball head out in front of him that that wasn't called as a taunting penalty. Anybody know what play I'm talking about? (I think it was in the second half).

***EDIT*** it was this play

markusr2007

September 14th, 2009 at 3:31 PM ^

Give the ball immediately to the official or run suicides in practice. It's that simple. And the choice is yours.

From Charleston Gazette, August 1, 2001: http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-8320045_ITM

"It's really a slang [term] that he (RR) came up with and developed," Parsons said. "It's a tempo pace. The quicker the ball is spotted by the official, the quicker the next play can be run.

"It doesn't give the other team a chance to rest. The quick moves catch the other team off guard and you can get more plays in, too."

Ty Butterfield

September 14th, 2009 at 3:39 PM ^

Okay, I watched the video of Weis but I could barely make it through it. He seems to have some sort of sense of entitlement about him. Since ND didn't "get the calls" he thought they should then the refs were bad. He really was acting like an ass. Yes, I understand it was a big loss but you could tell Weis was just bitter. I have trouble letting a big loss go but he might be worse then me. All the ND fans and the UM haters are taking their cue from Weis. Michigan didn't win, the officiating was just bad. What a joke. That being said, it came down to the defense for ND. If they had stopped Tate on that last drive none of that stuff would have mattered. Also, if ND completes one or both of those passes and gets a first down and runs the clock out, then no one would mention the perceived slight by the officials. Again the ND defense could not stop Tate so that is why they lost. I am actually looking forward to the rest of the season. GO BLUE!

they are who we thought they were

In reply to by Ty Butterfield

Erik_in_Dayton

September 14th, 2009 at 3:54 PM ^

Though he sometimes sounds like a crazy old man these days, Lou Holtz was a pretty class guy as ND's coach (the occassional shot at K-State aside). I respected them even though I disliked them tremendously...I think this year's ND squad is a hell of a team. That offense was a buzz-saw. That said, Weis drags ND down every time he opens his mouth. Anytime you start a sentence with "I'm not making an excuse, but..." you need to stop right there...Whether he's talking about the great schematic advantage he'll have over every opponent or making excuses (while saying he's not making excuses), Weis often seems to do his best coaching in the press and has reduced ND to being a bunch of whiners...I suppose I'd want my son to play for Weis if I wanted him to be arrogant and prone trying to talk his way out of failures after the fact.

In reply to by Ty Butterfield

lhglrkwg

September 14th, 2009 at 4:13 PM ^

was when weis said "i'm not going to complain about [fill in the blank penalty]" but proceeds to outline each and every call which he apparently disagreed with. hey charlie, know what that's called? complaining!

Erik_in_Dayton

September 14th, 2009 at 3:45 PM ^

I agree 100% w/ what Brian said. College football can escape the accusation of being exploitive when you're taking guys who otherwise wouldn't have gone to college and giving them the chance to get an education (albeit one watered down by the time commitment required - at any school - for their sport) and putting them in structured environment where they learn how to contribute to a team, be disciplined, and work hard...I hope U of M football will always be a place where kids who work hard and do the right thing can climb much higher on the ladder of success than they otherwise would have been able to.

On a different note, I want to defend Cissoko a little: Yeah, he got worked some and he shoved the WR and he celebrated after plays went his way. Neither of the latter of those two things was anyway near outside the realm of typical football game behavior. Also, he hung in all day long when a lot of guys would have been mentally broken. He was given a very tough job and he never quit.

MaizeAndBlueWahoo

September 14th, 2009 at 3:52 PM ^

The point about Notre Dame admitting all the well-dressed kids from the preppy schools and none of the ghetto kids is well taken, but there's at least a certain point of pride in being the kind of school that's able to be that choosy in the first place. Not in actively discriminating, mind you, just being in the position where you can be that selective.

Oh, and would it surprise anyone if MSU is 1-3 going into our game in three weeks? Because it wouldn't surprise me. Notre Dame is going to blow them out of the water. Wisconsin is not good, but they have to go to Madison and that could be tricky too.

MGoBlog Fan

September 14th, 2009 at 3:53 PM ^

...how MSU losing to CMU was "quintessential 'Sparty, No'" fashion. There was no blown 2-touchdown lead in the 4th quarter, no head coach screaming himself apopleptic at halftime, no dishonor guard in the center of the field protecting against a flag-planting, no self-defensive mocking of the opponent's height (or lack thereof) afterwards.

Bottom line is that LeFevour et. al. made plays when they needed to, especially the perfect execution of the onside kick.

You also assume that a) Sparty won't (or can't) make adjustments based on what happened, and b) Sparty won't spend ten times as much effort on preparing for the Michigan game.