Turkey React: Withering Back And Forth Comment Count

Brian

6/1/2014 – USA 2, Turkey 1

Got damn. The best soccer goals come with a kind of low OHAAAAWWWWWW from the crowd. That particular noise comes when half the crowd is cheering normally while the other half goes "OHHHHHH" because they've just seen something about as difficult as the moon landing in person. Bradley to Fabian Johnson was a moon landing of a goal.

Clint Dempsey's was not, but they all count.

Full highlights.

Paging World Cup horrors past. That ref had better not approach a USA game that counts. Whether he was ignoring a zillion clear fouls on Altidore or elbowing a Turk in the face when he should have been 90 feet closer to the Turkish net in case Dempsey had earned a penalty, this game was an exercise in frustration similar to Slovenia 2010 or Ghana 2006.

Jozy is fine. I generally like Taylor Twellman but his incessant harping on Jozy Altidore not putting a ball in the net (despite putting a ball in the net that was disallowed by a shaky and definitely irrelevant foul) drove me nuts in this game.

Twellman waxed to his worst on second-half "opportunity" he didn't hear whistled down but everyone watching ESPN did, and it seemed like Altidore and the Turks also mostly did. Altidore put a shot off the keeper and Twellman went into his usual refrain about confidence and mystical fairies and all that stuff that people who haven't thought about how brains work always do. Sometimes things happen, random things. Especially when you're Jozy Altidore and you've seen about six quality scoring opportunities since your goal drought started.

It got worse. A few minutes later, Twellman praised Altidore for blasting a shot off a charging keeper that would have been a simple tap-in for Bradley if Altidore had laid it off. Altidore did well to create the chance, but if there was a problem with Altidore's game in this one it was not his lack of ruthlessness but that pressing for goal that caused him to make a wrong decision.

Not that he was the only US player with that issue. After the Davis handball play saw Graham Zusi run on to a ball at the back post, this was a shot:

image

A tap-in for Jozy if Zusi gets it right. Does that make him a better player in this game?

This was not a problem for the Dutch in the first five minutes against future US foe Ghana. Faced with a similar opportunity, Arjen Robben laid it off for Robin Van Persie, who passed it into the back of the open net. Robben proceeded to blow an absolute sitter and a couple other grade-A chances, but because he's not part of a culture that yells at LeBron James for kicking it to a wide-open Donyell Marshall for a game-winning three* that he happens to miss, no one's going "blah blah blah confidence strikers blah."

Take the shot when it's the move; pass when it's the move. Heroball is garbage. San Antonio Spurs, you know?

*[Dated reference but the perfect one.]

RIGHT: JOZY IS FINE. I know I said he wasn't a hold up guy and never will be but he's really trying. He does lack that flick-on and isn't technical enough to be great in that role, but he's the only one with anything resembling that skillset. It's clear now that the US is going to need it from time to time, and he's trying.

As much as they would like to be a possession side there are going to be times where the US does have to blerg it upfield. Jozy's going to be the guy who turns that into anything. Unless you think Johannsson can do that there's no substitute.

image

Davis + Chandler on D in one image

Chandler is not fine. For some reason the USMNT internet has been desperately trying to replace DaMarcus Beasley since he became the USA's starting left back by default. I acknowledge he is not world-class but for Christ's sake he's gone three years without anything near as bad as two different things Tim Chandler pulled in the Turkey match. There was the pathetic turnover that led to the Turkey goal and the alarming 50-yard ball that led to a quality Guzan save on which Chandler and Davis were both vastly out of position. The same thing led to a corner in the first half.

Meanwhile, Chandler is right footed, so it is awkward pairing him with an in-cutting left midfielder like Bedoya. Chandler should be at the back of the bus now. Beasley and Johnson are your starting outside backs and if one of them is unavailable I'd rather see Brooks (with Cameron sliding outside) or Yedlin than Chandler.

Also not fine: Brad Davis. If you're going to play a diamond your outside midfielders need to be defensive presences. They end up narrow, usually, and need to track back because the second central midfielder ends up way up the pitch as a third dedicated attacker. In this game the US had to pull Bradley back in the second half because neither outside midfielder had any interest, really, in tracking back. Zusi was at least positioned in a place where he could do something most of the time; Davis was not. Turkey spent the day destroying the USA's left flank.

The first truly dangerous Turkey chance came off a corner kick that got reset; Chandler was asked to defend two guys.

image

left side of your screenshot—two Turks, one USA guy

I know it looks like Jermaine Jones was available to deal with this but he is not; he ends up having to apply emergency pressure on a Turkish player who ends up cutting it back to the shooter. Davis is at the top of the 18; he heads a ball forward, sees it turned over, and walks the rest of the play instead of tracking back to the position he's vacated. His guy puts one off the post. (Fabian Johnson is out of position as well, but overall his flank was way less threatened.)

Another Turkish scoring chance came because Davis vacated the entire left side of the field.

image

While the diamond midfielders do tend to pack in tight, Davis was generally a lot narrower than Zusi, leading to attack after attack down the left flank on which Chandler was asked to shut down acres of space; a primary reason that the US was conceding huge chunks of space was Davis's failure to exist without the ball. He had neither the pace nor the interest to show up.

17th-3[1]

Zusi is at the bottom; look how wide he is compared to Davis despite the ball being to Davis's wing.

You'd think the guy obviously on the roster because Landon is not would show on defense. I found myself missing Herculez Gomez in this game.

In the second half, Bradley was withdrawn when the US was without the ball and the chances stopped coming so fast and furious, and maybe that's how it has to be. Someone's going to have to cover a pile of space in the World Cup. Brad Davis clearly isn't. Bradley is going to have to be that guy, with Dempsey dropping to provide a link from defense to attack.

So don't judge Jones too badly. The post I just linked prefers Beckerman to Jones but I don't think they make a particularly convincing case. Jones was given too much to do in the first half since neither US winger made any defensive impact; Beckerman came on at the same time the US started dropping Bradley to provide more cover. Notably, the turnover they approvingly note Beckerman caused came as Bradley pressured a guy in a similar position to the guy with acres of space above.

It would have been just as bad in the first half with Beckerman, because Chandler cannot replicate himself.

I don't want to toot the ol' horn too much, but the second half setup is something I suggested would be the USA's best look:

I would prefer something like the 4-4-2 diamond they tried out in a recent friendly, with Bradley dropping back when faced with opponent possession and  Dempsey moving under Altidore to provide an outlet and link to Altidore up top.

This game showed both that the US does need Bradley's defensive abilities and cannot spare him from attack. It's going to be a long, tiring WC for Bradley, but that's how it has to be.

The Shin Guardian does have an instance where the midfield's general cluelessness is an issue, and Jones is one of the problems:

screen-shot-2014-06-01-at-9-06-27-pm[1]

This gets played square away from all four midfielders; Jones ends up going upfield at the guy, and Turkey is on a break off what initially looked like an innocuous play. Bad decisions all around here; TSG is right that Jones's instincts to attack rather than hold were dangerous to the US at times here.

Green: nope. He won't play at the World Cup.

Brooks: maybe. But Brooks overcame some nervous moments early to put in an impressive performance that demonstrated he has a pretty rare combination of agility and aerial ability. He has been playing well for his club of late, in contrast with Green, and at the position he's being asked to play here, in contrast with Chandler. With Gonzalez in something of a funk he might be your third option at center back.

Conclusions.

  • Davis and Zusi cannot play together. They're very similar players; the US needs more defense from the wing. IMO, Davis just disqualified himself from the first two games of the group stage. He is a disaster waiting to happen against Ayew or Nani, and his service is only marginally better than Zusi's.
  • Viva Beasley. He's a little malformed but he's ours, and if he gets run over that's life. At least he'll be in the right spot, not making an utter hash of things.
  • The diamond cannot be on defense unless Bedoya works like a donkey. While the idea—get Bradley upfield—is the right idea, leaving him upfield is only tenable if you're able to apply smart, high pressure consistently. The US doesn't have the wingers or forwards to do this, so against teams who aren't bunkered in Bradley will have to shuttle back or it's going to be a lot of what we saw against Turkey. Bedoya's presumed start against Nigeria will be the most interesting thing about that game.
  • I'm agnostic on Jones or Beckerman. Seems obvious that it will be Jones, but that seems like a 50/50 battle as to whether that's the right decision.
  • Leaving Donovan off this roster looks pretty bad right now. Whatever his flaws, Donovan has been a committed defender throughout his USA career and provides something other than "Graham Zusi but left-footed."

Comments

egrfree2rhyme

June 3rd, 2014 at 6:40 PM ^

I've never heard him mention that, and I'm not sure why he ever would mention what you're saying since 1) he wasn't on the USA roster for 2010 in South Africa and 2) he's never been on any USA World Cup roster.  The closest he came was when he was an alternate in 2006. 

MGoHoopsfan31

June 3rd, 2014 at 1:31 PM ^

Really love the soccer pieces. I'd roll out what would loosely be considered a 4-1-3-2 looking something like this to remove the Bedoya/Zusi/Not Donovan issues. Keep it narrow and depend on width from Beasley and FJ, using Jozy in moments of "defensive mashing of buttons" and letting Aron Bacon run off him, and Dempsey to set him up otherwise.  Pros: eliminates moments of extreme "WTF IS EVERYONE" because Beckerman and here's praying that MB/JJones don't kamakaze forward often while still allowing MB to be in a more comfortable CM role, Cons: lack of width, speed and crossing ability outside of FJ, also completely new

------------------------------Howard------------------------------

F. Johnson ------ Cameron ----- Besler -------- Beasley

----------------------------Beckerman---------------------------

---------------Bradley -------------------Jones -----------------

------------------------------------------Dempsey ---------------

----------------Aron Johannsson ---- Altidore --------------

Needs

June 3rd, 2014 at 2:16 PM ^

That lineup is terrifyingly narrow if it's going to be deployed against any team with talented players on the wing, like say Germany or Portugal. If you're going to play something with three dedicated CMs (or 2 CMs and a DM) you need to play a 4-3-3, with the 2 wingers up front tasked with tracking back to support the outside backs (unless I'm mistaken this is kind of the way that Bayern play). Main problem being that the US doesn't have wing players with those skill sets (Donovan's probably the only one who does, and he's never been great at tracking back and harrying players from above. 

 

I think the main problem is Davis. He never has to do that kind of work in MLS and he's not quick enough or positionally aware. If we're going to play the diamond, I think it has to be Bedoya and Zusi (who I think are going to start even in a 4-2-3-1). 

MGoHoopsfan31

June 3rd, 2014 at 2:58 PM ^

but I think packing the middle of the field is our rock/paper/scissors decision as stretching ourselves thinner in the back 6 only exposes us further. IMO we look to neutralize the Ghanian midfield and make them play wide by building centrally. 

 

We don't have the personnel to execute a 4-3-3, I agree. To play with the personality types you'd be looking for, however I would offer up Yedlin and Bedoya getting 45 minutes of pure sprinting to support the outside backs. Either way I would bet heavily against us trotting this out against either Portugal or Germany but hey... let's have a fun discussion. (Btw, this looks promising in 2018 w/ either of Yedlin/Johnson out wide and J Green opposite them and Aron/Jozy up top, MB and ??Gil?? centrally)

 

------------------------------Howard------------------------------

F. Johnson ------ Cameron ----- Besler -------- Beasley

----------------------------Beckerman---------------------------

--------------------Bradley -----------Jones -----------------

Yedlin/Bedoya-------------------------------------Dempsey

--------------------------------------- Altidore --------------

Needs

June 3rd, 2014 at 3:32 PM ^

That's interesting. Imagine the fantasy world where we go into Germany just needing a point. Could you imagine a lineup with Jozy flanked by Yedlin and Bedoya up front, plus the three guys you have here in midfield. Not sure I'd trust Yedlin to be tactically astute enough to pull that off, and not sure how much he gives going forward, but that's at least a lineup that can be really destructive and that can run forever. 

I do think you're really onto somethin about how the US might play in 2018. Lots of high pressure seems to be the way a lot of teams are moving and it seems like that's what Klinnsman wants to be able to do in the future.

I'd like to see them experiment with a 4-2-3-1 with the front looking like this:

 

---------------------Jones-------------Bradley--------------------

Zusi ------------------------Mixx---------------------Bedoya

-------------------------AJ/Dempsey

 

(Or, if you really trust one of the outside backs, put AJ in place of Zusi) I'd like to see what Diskerud can do in the center of the fielf.

MGoHoopsfan31

June 3rd, 2014 at 4:02 PM ^

I almost see that as an excuse to break out something similar to what you outline to give them some punch in the knockout rounds. Front as below with the staggered 4 man look between Bradley/Jones/Zusi/Dempsey with Mixx Central and Zusi/FJohnson looking to exploit the overlap and get crosses into the box while Bradley and Mix go forward:

 

---------------------Bradley-------------Jones--------------------

Zusi ------------------------Mixx---------------------

-----------------------------------------------Dempsey

-------------------------Jozy

alum96

June 3rd, 2014 at 1:44 PM ^

The defense looked pretty horrid in the 1st half with a lot of midfield runs from Turkey and then when the US got more conservative in alignment in the 2nd half, much of their offense disappeared.  I found Turkey to be more dangerous but unlucky that game.  The 2 squads are very similar in strength - shows you how vast the talent pool is in CONCACAF vs Europe (not that we did not know that).

 

Other thoughts:

  • Agreed Jozy was fine - he is not super technical but actually played very hard and had some good balls in to him, protected it, set up offense etc.  Just didnt finish. 
  • Green looks like an 18 year old - way out of his depth right now. 
  • I'd like to see our Iceland guy come on and see what he can do in next game. 
  • I continue to like Mix and wonder why he doesn't start - seems to have lost favor the past 12 months.
  • Dempsey missed some very nice set ups - he looked "off" to me. His first touch is not like it used to be maybe 2 years ago.
  • Zusi has very nice vision and made some really nice passes.
  • Defense ugh - but part of that is midfielders not coming back to help.C
  • Chandler's lazyness on his giveaway is just not forgiveable.  There will be faster players from Ghana Portugal Germany - he acted like he was playing a pickup game.

Jon06

June 3rd, 2014 at 1:51 PM ^

Against the Pacers this year:

On Wednesday, he made a good, smart and right play by passing to Chris Bosh, but since Bosh missed his corner 3, that was not really the point. It was more important that James knew that he had made the good, smart and right play.
“My teammates trust me that I’m going to make the right play to help us win,” James said. “I trust myself that I’m going to make the right play to help us win. And win, lose, or draw, you live with that. ”
The play was not very different from the finish in the previous round against the Nets when James drew the defense and passed outside, though in that one, there was an extra pass before Bosh hit the corner 3. For that matter, it was not very different from the pass James sent to Donyell Marshall when he was in Cleveland and the talking heads screamed that he would never win a title because it is better to take a bad shot than make a good pass.

http://blog.chron.com/ultimaterockets/2014/05/feigen-lebrons-pass-mchal…

Michigan4Life

June 3rd, 2014 at 2:12 PM ^

but if USMNT goes 0-3 and look bad in the process, the criticism on Klinsy will get louder especially with the inclusion of Donovan.  If he had Landon and USMNT goes 0-3, Klinsy would get a pass because it's the G.O.D.  The only way to shut up the critics is to advance to the knockout stages. With the way they have been playing the last two matches, it doesn't bode well for the opener against Ghana who will give USMNT defense a ton of problems with their pace and striking ability.

aplatypus

June 3rd, 2014 at 2:50 PM ^

I agree it's not fair to criticize Jones too much for being put in tough spots because he had little midfield help defensively and Brad Davis was picking flowers most of the time and all, but he still looks lost when attempting to defend the ball. And he gives possession away so damn much. I mean just go to the 1 minute mark of the highlight video and watch Jones blunder massively on a pretty easy ball and give Turkey a very good shot. And again at about 1:22, he makes a half hearted stab, misses, puts his hand up and watches as they get another shot within our box. There are others even just in that 7 minute highlight video. 

It's not his fault always to have been put in bad positions, but it is reasonably his fault that he doesn't handle them well. At least Beckerman is far more likely to clear a couple of those or stay within challenging distance of an opponent. 

egrfree2rhyme

June 3rd, 2014 at 8:00 PM ^

Yeah I was as well, really great content.

Brian if you end up reading this check out my long post from Sunday night in the game thread if you get the chance.  Lot of pretty similar points but it would be an honor to get the master's opinion on my opinions haha.

AnthonyThomas

June 3rd, 2014 at 8:46 PM ^

While the prospect of having Bradley in attacking positions to make passes like the one to Johnson is appealing, I really don't think it is practical in this tournament. There simply are not the bodies to track back and cover the space between the backline and the midfield. Bradely covered more space than any player in the 2010 WC, and he'll have to put forth a similar effort in Brazil, simply based on his skill set and the fact that we have no one with his engine + attacking skills. He is the engine of the team, and I really believe he's most effective overall when deployed as a defensive mid in the 4-2-3-1. It's not like we were struggling to score out of that formation. I don't really see the pragmatism of this experiment so late in the process.

MMB 82

June 4th, 2014 at 2:15 AM ^

And pretty much only follow it during the World Cup, but I greatly enjoy the coverage and commentary here because I invariably risk learning something. To play football in The US you basically have to be a behemoth, to play basketball you have to be generally significantly above-average height. In soccer you just have to be a great athlete- Diego Maradona was what, 5'4"?

chewieblue

June 4th, 2014 at 12:03 PM ^

(probably 3 this year, considering the draw the USMNT got), but I love the international aspect and the effort given in this event.  Go USA and keep the analysis coming Brian.