Trey Burke And The Chris Paul Comparison Comment Count

Ace

In the 2005 NBA Draft, three players were selected before Chris Paul.

Australian-born Naismith winner Andrew Bogut went first to the Milwaukee Bucks, a team with two young point guards—T.J. Ford and Mo Williams—hoping to fill a hole at center. He topped out as a solid post threat and rebounder before injuries derailed his career over the last couple seasons.

The second pick belonged to the Atlanta Hawks, a franchise in desperate need of a franchise point guard. Instead of choosing Paul, the super-productive yet diminutive playmaker, the Hawks chose Marvin Williams, a 6'9" forward who'd flashed great promise as a freshman sixth man on North Carolina's national title team. Good at many things but great at none, Williams has been a huge disappointment, providing below-average efficiency as the third option on some decent Hawks teams before being traded prior to last season straight-up for Devin Harris, whose career has been in a freefall since he was the centerpiece of Dallas' 2008 trade for Jason Kidd.

The Utah Jazz took 6'3" point guard Deron Williams with the third pick and can't be blamed for that choice, as the Illinois product has had a very productive pro career featuring three All-Star appearances.

Paul went fourth to the New Orleans Hornets, won Rookie of the Year in 2006, and in the seven years since has established himself as the best point guard in basketball. The Hawks, still looking for that franchise cornerstone, have been kicking themselves ever since; they're now targeting Paul in free agency and, in fact, violated NBA tampering rules by saying as much in a press release.

You probably know where I'm going with this. The NBA Draft is tomorrow night and Michigan's Trey Burke is expected to go anywhere from second to eighth. Brian has posted this before, but I want to once again draw your attention to Grantland's "NBA Job Interview" with Burke:

If YouTube is blocked or you don't want to watch the video, at the :32 mark Bill Simmons asks Burke to say which current pro is the type of player he'd like to be. Burke, without hesitation, says Chris Paul; look around for the various pre-draft content and this is his established ceiling. Simmons immediately fires back with what, at least from my impression, is the biggest doubt NBA GMs have about Burke's ability to become the next CP3:

The one thing about Chris Paul, though, is he's thick. When he goes down low, and he bounces off guys, they kinda bounce off him, too. The one thing I noticed with you in college, you would bounce off guys sometimes and you would take hard falls...

I didn't follow Paul's college career too closely, so I did three things after watching the above clip. First, I went to Burke's and Paul's respective NBADraftNet profiles, which has their pre-draft measurements.

Burke: 5'11.75" w/o shoes, 6'1.25" w/ shoes, 6'5.5" wingspan, 187 pounds, 3 bench press reps (185 lbs.)
Paul: 5'11.75" w/o shoes, 6'1" w/ shoes, 6'4.25" wingspan, 178 pounds, 10 bench press reps (185 lbs.)

Burke is, in fact, a little bit bigger than Paul was when he came out of college, and while Paul has clearly added muscle since he was drafted, his listed weight is still at 178 pounds. The difference is in their strength — Paul performed much better on the bench press.

The second thing I did was watch Paul's college highlights, and boy do they look a lot like Burke's:

At this stage in their careers, Burke and Paul had similar body types as well as similar games; both made their hay by dominating the ball, effortlessly finding ways to the rim, passing at a level that often caught teammates off-guard, and knocking down outside shots to keep defenses honest. Paul looks stronger at the rim than Burke and has a few more jaw-dropping passes in his arsenal; otherwise, they're practically doppelgangers.

The third thing I did was to compare their final college seasons statistically, a convenient comparison in this instance since both left school after their sophomore seasons. The full rundown can be found at StatSheet, which is the source for this (chart?) chart:

Despite a much higher usage (28.9% vs. 23.1%) and a longer three-point line (20'9" vs. 19'9"), Burke and Paul have near-identical offensive ratings; Burke boasts a better assist rate, fewer turnovers, and a higher eFG% despite attempting 28% of his team's shots against Paul's 20%. Paul has one major advantage, getting to the free-throw line at a much higher clip.

Simmons' point holds true, as far as I can tell, though it's an issue of strength, not size; Burke and Paul are near-identical in all other regards, but Paul was better in college at taking contact and continued to develop that talent in the NBA — look at his shooting heat map from this year, which shows his impressive efficiency in the paint and at the basket.

Can Burke make up this ground? I think it's possible. For one, his work ethic is tough to match, and obviously that's the largest obstacle between a player and adding strength. The videos of Burke working out before he arrived at Michigan are something I always point to when discussing his seemingly out-of-nowhere rise to the top of the college basketball world. For some reason I can't embed the video, but look at Burke's face as he's about to arrive at his after-school workout destination: the steps of the 94-foot-tall Hoover Dam* in Columbus.

Burke has also bulked up since he arrived at Michigan; while he's still on the skinny side, he's more defined than he was as a high-schooler and has added 15-20 pounds of muscle since arriving in Ann Arbor. That hasn't taken away from his game one bit—in fact, his finishing has improved—and he should be able to continue adding weight to his frame without losing athleticism or explosiveness.

Then there's the shooting aspect. While Paul was a very good three-point shooter in college (47.0% for his career), he's been just okay in that regard as a pro (35.6%, and the only time he's cracked 40% was in 2010 when he had a career-low 127 attempts). Burke's college numbers are worse, but they came under different circumstances — the longer line, of course, and also Michigan's late-clock "do something, Trey" offense. Rarely did he have the chance to catch and shoot; according to hoop-math.com, just 49% of Burke's three-pointers were assisted last year, while every other Michigan regular had a figure at or above 85%. If Burke ends up on a team with enough proficient ballhandlers to allow him to occasionally spot up, not just run high pick-and-rolls and choose to drive or pull the trigger, this could be an area where he's more effective than Paul.

Do I think Trey Burke will be better than Chris Paul? No, probably not. Paul's strength is a bigger asset at the NBA level than in college, and while I believe that Burke will improve in that regard, he's starting from well behind where Paul was at this stage — his around-the-rim finishing and free throw rate may never match Paul's. CP3 is also one of the league's best defensive point guards, and while a good part of that is his Burkian thievery—Paul has led the NBA in steals five times—it's also a product of his strength, which allows him to hold his own one-on-one against bigger guards.

Do I think that Trey Burke could become as effective as Chris Paul, just in a slightly different manner? Yes. The key here will be the development of Burke's outside shooting. We already know he has NBA range—just ask Kansas—and if he can become a 40%-plus outside shooter it'll open up room for the other parts of game.

I won't make the argument that Burke should go first overall—the Cavs have quite a point guard in Kyrie Irving, anyway—or even that he should go to Orlando at #2 (Victor Oladipo and Ben McLemore are both exceptional athletes with NBA-ready skill sets). With less-proven players like Nerlens Noel, Alex Len, and Anthony Bennett likely to go off the board before Burke, though, I think it's safe to say there will be at least one team dealing with regret down the line, and for a long time at that.

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*Not to be confused with the better-known Hoover Dam on the Arizona/Nevada border.

Comments

AC1997

June 26th, 2013 at 10:22 PM ^

So I love the piece from Ace and many of the comments.  And while I agree that Burke likely lacks some of Paul's elite traits, I think he's closer to him than he is to Jameer Nelson.  More importantly, even if he isn't Chris Paul he can still be successful.  Here are my points:

  • The NBA utilizes the high ball screen a ton and Burke mastered it this year, as wonderfully summarized on UMHoops today.  
    http://www.umhoops.com/2013/06/26/trey-burke-michigan-and-pick-and-roll-offense/
  • Burke is highly efficient despite massive usage numbers.  In the NBA he won't be a high usage player (at least not on a decent team) so his efficiency will be a huge asset as compared to someone who won't make the most of their opportunities.
  • The schedule that Michigan played this year was intense and showed how Burke could match up against really tough defenses (OSU, WI, KU, Syracuse, Louisville, MSU, etc.).  
  • I don't believe that the FT-rate is tied to him falling down when he crashes the lane, I think it is due to the Big Ten officiating.  They don't reward that type of play like the NBA or other conferences.  I'm sure someone could dig up stats to back that up, but Burke didn't shoot more FT because of guys like Valentine and Hightower.  

There's a great tool at statsheet where you can compare players and if you pull up Burke versus just about anyone he compares very well.  http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare

Everyone is worried about Burke's height.  Yet here are some starting PGs in the league:

  1. Jeff Teague (6'2" - 181)
  2. Rajon Rondo (6'1" - 186)
  3. Kemba Walker (6'1" - 184)
  4. Nate Robinson (5'9" - 180)
  5. Darren Collison (6'0" - 175)
  6. Ty Lawson (5'11" - 195)
  7. George Hill (6'2" - 190)
  8. Mike Conley (6'1" - 185)
  9. Mario Chalmers (6'2" - 190)
  10. Brandon Jennings (6'1" - 169)
  11. Raymond Felton (6'1" - 205)
  12. Jameer Nelson (6'0" - 190)
  13. Tony Parker (6'2" - 180)
  14. Isiah Thomas (5'9" - 185)
  15. Kyle Lowrey (6'0" - 205)
  16. Mo Williams (6'1" - 186)

So half of the league's starting point guards are Burke's size and people are worried about it?  Even if he isn't Paul or Parker, you're telling me the national player of the year couldn't be better than Mike Conley?  Ty Lawson?  Brandon Jennings?  

As Bill Simmons says in the piece, Burke is the safest bet in this draft.  He may not be a regular all-star, but he'll be a solid PG in the league for 10 years.  

UMaD

June 27th, 2013 at 1:32 PM ^

The whole MCW appeal baffles me - who was the last tall PG that had success.  The list o players who were even decent is quite short.

While height can be overcome, you still need a skill that gets you on the floor.  The question with Burke is - what will that be.  Most of those short players are either lightning fast or can shoot.  Jennings, Conley, Lawson -- those guys can fly in a way Burke can not.  Parker and Rondo - Aaron Craft can't lock them down.

That's why I like the Nelson comp - he's not super fast but has a well-rounded game.  He can score but isn't going to win by himself.

Jon06

June 26th, 2013 at 10:29 PM ^

Is Burke to Indiana actually a possibility? They've only got picks #23 and #53. I assume they'd trade both to get Burke as an awesome backup PG if they think West is going to re-sign, but it seems pretty unlikely.

chitownblue2

June 27th, 2013 at 9:54 AM ^

I think Paul is a poor comparison. If you've seen Paul step on a court, the athleticism difference is pretty apparent. If you're more stat-inclined, all the evidence suggests that Paul is a significantly better shooter than Burke - especially from beyond the arc. Burke is good, Paul was Jon Diebler-esque.

I think the best comparison for Burke, to be a little obscure, is Terrell Brandon:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/brandte01.html

Brandon was 5'11", and a quality offensive player. A good, but not great three-point shooter. He was a solid creator off the dribble, extremely good at taking care of the basketball (look at that nearly 4:1 A/TO ratio on his career), and a lethal mid-range shooter (his nick name was "Stop & Pop"). He also was, for a few years, a devastating pick & roll combination with Kevin Garnett.

He only made 1 All-Star game, partly because his career was cut short by injury (he didn't really play after age 31), and partly because he spent a long time playing for lower-rung playoff teams.

Regardless, he was a good player, and I think a more viable comparison than the best "short" PG in NBA history (sorry Isaiah fans).

UMaD

June 27th, 2013 at 1:27 PM ^

I certainly like Brandon better than Paul as a comp, but Brandon's game was more quickness-oriented than I think you imply here.    Brandon was a guy who could get sepration and steals with his quickness.  Burke is a better shooter, but not as fast.

The A/TO ratio is the part I like - that is what I see Burke excelling at in the NBA level.

Seth

June 27th, 2013 at 12:08 PM ^

I wonder if other Big Ten players are comparable in not getting to the line. Maybe do like a Big Ten Guy versus an NBA Guy He's Exactly Like kind of comparison, and see if there's a lot of everything-fits-but-the-FTs.