Toledo Open Thread

By Brian — October 11th, 2008 at 9:54 AM — 42 comments

Hello once again. As per usual: Live Blog Chaos Mitigation Post; festivities should start around 11:30.

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October 11th, 2008 at 11:01 AM | does anyone know of any (Score:0)
October 11th, 2008 at 11:21 AM | stream? (Score:1)
formerlyanonymous
formerlyanonymous's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 13946

I haven't been able to find a stream for this game.  Since the Indiana/Iowa game is the national BTN, most people dont have access.  Anyone have any thoughts?

channelsurf.net and myp2p.eu both are negatives.

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October 11th, 2008 at 11:27 AM | thats the problem I have. i (Score:1)
south875
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 2

thats the problem I have. i can watch the BTN, but its the damn Iowa game. I cant have a satellite at my apartment. god hates me

October 11th, 2008 at 11:29 AM | not as much as he hates (Score:1)
jaysvw
Joined: 09/27/2008
MGoPoints: 144

not as much as he hates people who live in AZ.  He makes us watch PAC10 games.

October 11th, 2008 at 11:30 AM | so we cant watch (Score:0)
October 11th, 2008 at 11:33 AM | I'm in Grand Rapids and BTN (Score:1)
Jill
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 2

I'm in Grand Rapids and BTN says Iowa @ Indiana. Are we in a blackout? I have DirecTV.

October 11th, 2008 at 11:36 AM | try channel 615 Jill..someone (Score:1)
south875
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 2

try channel 615 Jill..someone on the scout site said its supposed to be there

October 11th, 2008 at 11:43 AM | Thanks south875! (Score:1)
Jill
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 2

GOT IT! Channel 615 DirecTV. Not HD, :(

October 11th, 2008 at 11:56 AM | OK. BTN ch 610 just aired the (Score:1)
Jill
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 2

OK. BTN ch 610 just aired the MMB pre-game! Maybe locally they will air the game.

October 11th, 2008 at 11:59 AM | Nope. Iowa on 610. Michigan (Score:1)
Jill
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 2

Nope. Iowa on 610. Michigan game on 615.

October 11th, 2008 at 11:40 AM | If you can find it, it is on (Score:0)
October 11th, 2008 at 11:46 AM | on dish network (Score:0)
October 11th, 2008 at 12:10 PM | Anyone know the DISH Network Alternate? (Score:0)
October 11th, 2008 at 12:48 PM | btn sound? (Score:0)
October 11th, 2008 at 12:53 PM | Need streaming link (Score:0)
October 11th, 2008 at 3:23 PM | Kittens (Score:0)
October 11th, 2008 at 3:28 PM | kill me (Score:0)
October 11th, 2008 at 3:29 PM | kill me (Score:1)
99bobcats
99bobcats's picture
Joined: 08/20/2008
MGoPoints: 447

now

October 11th, 2008 at 8:59 PM | Anyone up for a suicide (Score:1)
Tim Waymen
Tim Waymen's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 1326

Anyone up for a suicide pact?

Ann Arbor is a classy broad.

"Get off my plane!" - Ricky Stanzi, Air Force One 2

October 11th, 2008 at 11:55 PM | Yeah (Score:1)
Blue Durham
Blue Durham's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 827

you first.

October 11th, 2008 at 11:29 PM | As a former resident of the City of Toledo: (Score:0)
October 12th, 2008 at 12:47 AM | None (tribute to Haloscan) (Score:1)
Electron Erectshon
Electron Erectshon's picture
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 4

Posted to diaries instead...

The table is being set for a UMidget Dynasty.

October 12th, 2008 at 12:50 AM | I understand your pain and your comparison to App. State. (Score:1)
Blue Durham
Blue Durham's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 827

The App. State game WAS an upset.  Afterward (well, after the Oregon game) there was an opinion that the team was good (at least on offense) and this was verified by an 8-game win streak and a bowl win against Florida.

After fully HALF of the season over, it is now apparent that this present team IS as bad a Toledo.  This was no upset.  That is the problem. 

The '84 team that went 6-6 WAS the worse team in the last 40 years.  But that team's non-conference games were against #1 Miami (Fla, not OH, M won 22-14), #16 Washington (L, 20-11) and #1 BYU (L, 24-17).  At least that team was competitive for the most part.  This team seems to be much worse.

October 12th, 2008 at 8:46 AM | The ironies are amazing (Score:1)
Don
Don's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 17332

1. During the coaching search many MGoBloggers—myself included—were petrified at the thought of a Brady Hoke or Ron English or Mike DeBord taking over the reigns from Lloyd. Our common fear was that the program would quickly go down the toilet. It's hard for me to imagine now that things would have been any worse under any of these guys. It's especially galling when you consider that this same Toledo team was beaten 31-0 on their home field by Ball State, coached by Mr. Not-Qualified-to-be-Michigan's-Coach Brady Hoke.

2. For the last year Sparty has been the source of much hilarity and derision here. However well-deserved it was, it's now obvious that the strongest program in the state right now is up in East Lansing. That's the first time since 1968 that's been true.

3. We're every bit as bad this year as ND was last year. We might not even win 3 games. Who are we going to beat for our third victory?

The really ugly thing is that, as bad as the season has been so far, it's going to get far, far worse. By season's end Martin will be under intense pressure from outraged alumni donors to can Rodriguez. That might be the absolute worst thing to do, but for wealthy athletic dept. donors watching in the stadium in the shadow of the luxury boxes, these are uncharted waters.


October 12th, 2008 at 10:38 AM | My husband golfs with a slew (Score:1)
Jill
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 2

My husband golfs with a slew of alumni donors. Guys with strong ties to the University, so many so, that they held the athletic department fundraiser at our golf couse. The general consensus among these guys: Its a rebuilding year. Its a new system, new coach, very young team. Give 'em some space, they'll be fine. Just don't pay too much heed to this particular year. They haven't lost any sleep over this year nor faith in the program.

 

Soooo, have faith people! This IS Michigan!

October 12th, 2008 at 1:36 PM | This loss was in some ways (Score:1)
mth822
Joined: 07/03/2008
MGoPoints: 23

This loss was in some ways though, a loss in the court of public opinion/approval. Few people in the crowd of,'It's a rebuilding year," will concede they even thought we'd lose to Toledo. It all gets mushed into the phrases of,"It's a rebuilding year." But the many echoes you feel around the program are,"yeah but Toledo, I think we should be able to beat Toledo you know." Not the end of the world but there are more questions being hurled around. Whether fair or not they are being thrown around as we speak.

October 12th, 2008 at 2:11 PM | I agree with what you are (Score:1)
Jill
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 2

I agree with what you are saying mth822, and, I haven't been to the club since the Toledo game. As with the loss to Utah, I really wouldn't expect attitudes to be much different, but I could be talking out my _ss here.

FWIW, I heard Rodriguez talk about getting one problem fixed only to have another crop up. My thoughts: it appeared to me as though they played as a team who hadn't done much preparation in response to game film, only working on executing their own plays. Another poster said a Toledo player was quoted in regards to the pick6 that they had practiced for it from game film. Maybe that's a part of our problem. Just a thought.

October 12th, 2008 at 3:03 PM | Avoid groupthink at all (Score:1)
mth822
Joined: 07/03/2008
MGoPoints: 23

Avoid groupthink at all costs, ask the tough questions, but be fair. I'm done dealing with the idea of transition. I understand we are in that process and may be for even another season. But with the little things, I am looking for the overall translation. If wins are out of the question, then let's move to the facets of the game we can control and see how those translate. There is always something to better yourself on week to week. I think everyone involved with MI football will tell you that against Toledo, more things could've been translated from practice to game time. The groupthink of,"Fire the coach," and,"Give him time it's a transition,"eventually merge into a conclusion. Saturday, with everyone wanting to fire everyone, or wishing it was somehow different, Michigan lost a game they could've won. That is the real concern. Now that being said, numerous losses of veterans, and injuries to current starters were there. No Brandon Graham no Odoms and so on. But, in the public's eye, a game that could've been won. And that is where people are taking sides. Sad, but give it time I suppose and we'll see how it cycles through.

October 12th, 2008 at 9:13 PM | Sociology major? Just (Score:1)
Jill
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 2

Sociology major?

Just wondering.

October 12th, 2008 at 10:26 PM | Heyyyy Gurrrlll (Score:1)
mth822
Joined: 07/03/2008
MGoPoints: 23

Bio

We should talk over coffee some morning Jill ;)

That is, if you are a woman :)

 

October 12th, 2008 at 10:36 PM | All gurrrlll. Coffee's (Score:1)
Jill
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 2

All gurrrlll.

Coffee's good.  :)

October 12th, 2008 at 10:51 PM | There's no harm in coffee (Score:1)
mth822
Joined: 07/03/2008
MGoPoints: 23

There's no harm in coffee right :) the next thing I'll be saying is,"Jill wait, who is that man running at me with a golf club?" 

October 12th, 2008 at 10:58 PM | You can outrun a cart, can't (Score:1)
Jill
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 2

You can outrun a cart, can't you???

You've certainly taken a night of depressing reading and made it enjoyable.

Thanks.

October 12th, 2008 at 7:17 PM | We (will) rule the @*&#^$ land... soon (Score:1)
Ernis
Ernis's picture
Joined: 09/23/2008
MGoPoints: 1788

"Our common fear was that the program would quickly go down the toilet.
It's hard for me to imagine now that things would have been any worse
under any of these guys."

Things probably wouldn't be much worse this season if we had Hoke or someone similar. The question is, what would we expect down the road with those coaches? It's important to consider not only the amount of improvement, but also the nature of the improvement... would we eventually get back to a good team in the style of Carr's program (thus, in essence, sacrificing a season or two to get back to what we had before), or will we build a good team that is fundamentally more adaptable to and up-to-speed with recent innovations in the game (which yields more promise as a long-term investment)?

With Rodriguez, we are betting on the latter. Like any investment with big payout potential, it involves substantial risk. You've got to pay in big... and there is no guarantee that things will pan out. Whichever way things may end up with Rodriguez, I think the move was absolutely necessary to maintain Michigan's relevance on the national scene over the long term.

With this in mind, you are undoubtedly right in stating that the worst thing to do would be to can Rodriguez due to some stunningly bad losses in one (possibly losing) season.

However, I don't think things can get worse than they are now. No opponent we have yet to face is as bad as Toledo, so losses to them won't be as bad as this. Besides, I still believe that as the season progresses the team's performance in games will begin to more consistently reflect the competence seen in practices.

Finally, this loss could serve as a major motivator to the team-- and several games coming up are big rivalries. Never forget the overarching importance of intangibles.

Trust me, I know what I'm doing

October 12th, 2008 at 10:43 PM | Econ major? (Score:1)
Jill
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 2

 

;)

October 13th, 2008 at 2:46 AM | Great post... (Score:1)
WestCoastWolverine
Joined: 10/09/2008
MGoPoints: 723

Ernis.  I didn't think this season would be as ugly as it has been.  But I am an eternal Michigan optimist too.  Look, the easiest thing to do is to give up on this team.  I will never give up on Michigan, no matter how bad it gets (like now).  If you check out freep or mlive, it appears that a lot of fairweather fans have jumped ship.  And to that I say "good riddance"!  RR will get this team going.  And I feel it will be this season.  There will be a milestone game where everything comes together and the team plays with confidence throughout the rest of the season.  Hard work and determination always pays off.  Now, there are those that feel that RR should be blending pro style in with the spread.  I don't think we'd be any more successful with pro style plays considering how bad the O line is.  What do other think?

I'm gonna take two weeks off, and then quit.

October 12th, 2008 at 12:05 PM | Lloyd Carr haters (Score:0)
October 13th, 2008 at 12:20 AM | Wow this weekend sucked (Score:1)
Tim Waymen
Tim Waymen's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 1326

when it comes to football.  There is no excuse.  It's a game we should have won, and we need whatever wins we can get.  We have squandered two possible wins against ND and Toledo.  It is a rebuilding year, but there is little excuse for yesterday's disaster.

Still, the chorus of "fire Rich Rod" should stop now.  The hiring should pay dividends in the future.  Right now the team is in poor shape personnel-wise.  One reason not to call for his head is that it would prove all the morons from WV, Ohio, and MSU right that we would run RR out of Ann Arbor by the end of the year.  A bigger thing is that coaches should have at the very least 4 years, and RR is halfway through year 1 with an offense full of freshmen and a D that has no LBs or safeties.  It does seem like most people here at Mgoblog calling for RR's head are doing it in jest.

If it helps, Alabama lost to a shitty ULM team last year, and look at where they are now.  These things take time.  RR is a fine coach who will right the ship with the players that he's recruited so far.  But shit, this weekend sucked.

Ann Arbor is a classy broad.

"Get off my plane!" - Ricky Stanzi, Air Force One 2

October 13th, 2008 at 1:06 AM | the irony of Brian's Charlie Weis ranting (Score:0)
October 13th, 2008 at 12:22 PM | I think it is downright (Score:1)
bvanlee
Joined: 10/13/2008
MGoPoints: 19

I think it is downright disrespectful the way that many Michigan fans conducted themselves this season, especially toward Rich Rodriguez. He and his crew are proven winners that were handed very little offensively when they got here, even for a pro-style offense. On top of that, we experienced some bad luck and saw Mallet and others leave.

We need to give RichRod and his coaching staff a few years of die-hard support before we begin to even think about saying some of the things that are being said. And I hear you Brian, the "adults" are the worst. Last year, these same jaycats were calling for Carr's head and wanted a more interesting coach.

 

I think some Blue fans need to get laid on the quick. As hard as it may be to believe, there are more important things in life than football. Like, perhaps, being voted the 18th best university in the world last week?

GO BLUE, now and forever

BJV

Class of 2001 & 2003

October 13th, 2008 at 3:22 PM | I agree, but... (Score:0)
October 13th, 2008 at 6:04 PM | There is no excuse (Score:0)
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