Toledo Open Thread
Hello once again. As per usual: Live Blog Chaos Mitigation Post; festivities should start around 11:30.
TAKE IT LIKE A MAN
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Hello once again. As per usual: Live Blog Chaos Mitigation Post; festivities should start around 11:30.
I love, will always love, the University of Michigan first and foremost. Not the football team, the University. I can put up with some bad teams. I remember the drubbing at home to FSU. I remember McNabb making us look like idiots the year after our (co-) title. I know the history. I can wait for success. I agree with being patient.
But it doesn't look good right now. RR did not inherit a crappy MAC team. He inherited a team full of solid, highly recruited players, albeit relatively young and definitely inexperienced. Michigan is playing as poorly as any D-IA team I have seen in a while. That is inexcusable. Does it mean RR should be fired? Of course not, but it certainly raises some serious doubts about his ability to coach this team. So I understand the bitterness and resentment about all the angry responses. Keep things in perspective. On the other hand, that Toldeo game was embarrassing. 20 fumbles in 5 games is embarrassing. It shouldn't ever happen to a Michigan team. There is no excuse.
Let me first say that I completely agree that we need to give RRod time and that the actions of some idiotic fans are downright embarassing. That said, there is no sugar-coating the Toledo loss. We have an overwhelming advantage in terms of talent (yes, even this year) and should have won this game easily. The fact that we loss indicates very poor coaching...especially on the defensive side. Giving up 327 yards is absolutely ridiculous - they aren't even a good MAC team and we have a mostly veteran defense! Coach Rod takes the blame for this loss and needs to get better if we expect to win the Little 10 title in a few years. My confidence in this regime is slowly waning.
I think it is downright disrespectful the way that many Michigan fans conducted themselves this season, especially toward Rich Rodriguez. He and his crew are proven winners that were handed very little offensively when they got here, even for a pro-style offense. On top of that, we experienced some bad luck and saw Mallet and others leave.
We need to give RichRod and his coaching staff a few years of die-hard support before we begin to even think about saying some of the things that are being said. And I hear you Brian, the "adults" are the worst. Last year, these same jaycats were calling for Carr's head and wanted a more interesting coach.
I think some Blue fans need to get laid on the quick. As hard as it may be to believe, there are more important things in life than football. Like, perhaps, being voted the 18th best university in the world last week?
GO BLUE, now and forever
BJV
Class of 2001 & 2003
Brian,
I find it ironic how aptly your many criticisms of Charlie Weis now apply to your current coach - a debacle of a season, a remarkable inability to show any improvement during the season, a failure to properly utilize the current roster, losing to teams with far inferior talent accross the board....
You (and everyone else on the charlie weis is the worst coach on the planet bandwagon) basically have 3 options:
1. Admit Weis is not such a terrible coach and the previous ND's 2 BCS seasons were not a fluke. Accept that ND's year last year was a product of piss-poor recruiting by he who shall not be named, defections at key positions, and an unfortunate schedule, mixed in with some admittedly poor coaching decisions
2. Conclude that Rodriguez is incredibly overrated and is a horrendous coach, in fact, one of the worst in college football and should be fired immediately if michigan is going to be respectable in the next 10 years
3. Admit neither, and accept the fact you are a huge hypocrite
when it comes to football. There is no excuse. It's a game we should have won, and we need whatever wins we can get. We have squandered two possible wins against ND and Toledo. It is a rebuilding year, but there is little excuse for yesterday's disaster.
Still, the chorus of "fire Rich Rod" should stop now. The hiring should pay dividends in the future. Right now the team is in poor shape personnel-wise. One reason not to call for his head is that it would prove all the morons from WV, Ohio, and MSU right that we would run RR out of Ann Arbor by the end of the year. A bigger thing is that coaches should have at the very least 4 years, and RR is halfway through year 1 with an offense full of freshmen and a D that has no LBs or safeties. It does seem like most people here at Mgoblog calling for RR's head are doing it in jest.
If it helps, Alabama lost to a shitty ULM team last year, and look at where they are now. These things take time. RR is a fine coach who will right the ship with the players that he's recruited so far. But shit, this weekend sucked.
Ann Arbor is a classy broad.
"Get off my plane!" - Ricky Stanzi, Air Force One 2
I hope all of you true Blues who just couldn't wait to get rid of Lloyd Carr are happy now..What a travesty..
1. During the coaching search many MGoBloggers—myself included—were petrified at the thought of a Brady Hoke or Ron English or Mike DeBord taking over the reigns from Lloyd. Our common fear was that the program would quickly go down the toilet. It's hard for me to imagine now that things would have been any worse under any of these guys. It's especially galling when you consider that this same Toledo team was beaten 31-0 on their home field by Ball State, coached by Mr. Not-Qualified-to-be-Michigan's-Coach Brady Hoke.
2. For the last year Sparty has been the source of much hilarity and derision here. However well-deserved it was, it's now obvious that the strongest program in the state right now is up in East Lansing. That's the first time since 1968 that's been true.
3. We're every bit as bad this year as ND was last year. We might not even win 3 games. Who are we going to beat for our third victory?
The really ugly thing is that, as bad as the season has been so far, it's going to get far, far worse. By season's end Martin will be under intense pressure from outraged alumni donors to can Rodriguez. That might be the absolute worst thing to do, but for wealthy athletic dept. donors watching in the stadium in the shadow of the luxury boxes, these are uncharted waters.
"Our common fear was that the program would quickly go down the toilet.
It's hard for me to imagine now that things would have been any worse
under any of these guys."
Things probably wouldn't be much worse this season if we had Hoke or someone similar. The question is, what would we expect down the road with those coaches? It's important to consider not only the amount of improvement, but also the nature of the improvement... would we eventually get back to a good team in the style of Carr's program (thus, in essence, sacrificing a season or two to get back to what we had before), or will we build a good team that is fundamentally more adaptable to and up-to-speed with recent innovations in the game (which yields more promise as a long-term investment)?
With Rodriguez, we are betting on the latter. Like any investment with big payout potential, it involves substantial risk. You've got to pay in big... and there is no guarantee that things will pan out. Whichever way things may end up with Rodriguez, I think the move was absolutely necessary to maintain Michigan's relevance on the national scene over the long term.
With this in mind, you are undoubtedly right in stating that the worst thing to do would be to can Rodriguez due to some stunningly bad losses in one (possibly losing) season.
However, I don't think things can get worse than they are now. No opponent we have yet to face is as bad as Toledo, so losses to them won't be as bad as this. Besides, I still believe that as the season progresses the team's performance in games will begin to more consistently reflect the competence seen in practices.
Finally, this loss could serve as a major motivator to the team-- and several games coming up are big rivalries. Never forget the overarching importance of intangibles.
That's right, Dude. 100% certain.
Ernis. I didn't think this season would be as ugly as it has been. But I am an eternal Michigan optimist too. Look, the easiest thing to do is to give up on this team. I will never give up on Michigan, no matter how bad it gets (like now). If you check out freep or mlive, it appears that a lot of fairweather fans have jumped ship. And to that I say "good riddance"! RR will get this team going. And I feel it will be this season. There will be a milestone game where everything comes together and the team plays with confidence throughout the rest of the season. Hard work and determination always pays off. Now, there are those that feel that RR should be blending pro style in with the spread. I don't think we'd be any more successful with pro style plays considering how bad the O line is. What do other think?
I'm gonna take two weeks off, and then quit.
;)
My husband golfs with a slew of alumni donors. Guys with strong ties to the University, so many so, that they held the athletic department fundraiser at our golf couse. The general consensus among these guys: Its a rebuilding year. Its a new system, new coach, very young team. Give 'em some space, they'll be fine. Just don't pay too much heed to this particular year. They haven't lost any sleep over this year nor faith in the program.
Soooo, have faith people! This IS Michigan!
This loss was in some ways though, a loss in the court of public opinion/approval. Few people in the crowd of,'It's a rebuilding year," will concede they even thought we'd lose to Toledo. It all gets mushed into the phrases of,"It's a rebuilding year." But the many echoes you feel around the program are,"yeah but Toledo, I think we should be able to beat Toledo you know." Not the end of the world but there are more questions being hurled around. Whether fair or not they are being thrown around as we speak.
I agree with what you are saying mth822, and, I haven't been to the club since the Toledo game. As with the loss to Utah, I really wouldn't expect attitudes to be much different, but I could be talking out my _ss here.
FWIW, I heard Rodriguez talk about getting one problem fixed only to have another crop up. My thoughts: it appeared to me as though they played as a team who hadn't done much preparation in response to game film, only working on executing their own plays. Another poster said a Toledo player was quoted in regards to the pick6 that they had practiced for it from game film. Maybe that's a part of our problem. Just a thought.
Avoid groupthink at all costs, ask the tough questions, but be fair. I'm done dealing with the idea of transition. I understand we are in that process and may be for even another season. But with the little things, I am looking for the overall translation. If wins are out of the question, then let's move to the facets of the game we can control and see how those translate. There is always something to better yourself on week to week. I think everyone involved with MI football will tell you that against Toledo, more things could've been translated from practice to game time. The groupthink of,"Fire the coach," and,"Give him time it's a transition,"eventually merge into a conclusion. Saturday, with everyone wanting to fire everyone, or wishing it was somehow different, Michigan lost a game they could've won. That is the real concern. Now that being said, numerous losses of veterans, and injuries to current starters were there. No Brandon Graham no Odoms and so on. But, in the public's eye, a game that could've been won. And that is where people are taking sides. Sad, but give it time I suppose and we'll see how it cycles through.
Sociology major?
Just wondering.
Bio
We should talk over coffee some morning Jill ;)
That is, if you are a woman :)
All gurrrlll.
Coffee's good. :)
There's no harm in coffee right :) the next thing I'll be saying is,"Jill wait, who is that man running at me with a golf club?"
You can outrun a cart, can't you???
You've certainly taken a night of depressing reading and made it enjoyable.
Thanks.
The App. State game WAS an upset. Afterward (well, after the Oregon game) there was an opinion that the team was good (at least on offense) and this was verified by an 8-game win streak and a bowl win against Florida.
After fully HALF of the season over, it is now apparent that this present team IS as bad a Toledo. This was no upset. That is the problem.
The '84 team that went 6-6 WAS the worse team in the last 40 years. But that team's non-conference games were against #1 Miami (Fla, not OH, M won 22-14), #16 Washington (L, 20-11) and #1 BYU (L, 24-17). At least that team was competitive for the most part. This team seems to be much worse.
Posted to diaries instead...
The table is being set for a UMidget Dynasty.
NOM NOM NOM BRAAAAAAAAAAIIIINNNSSS
Anyone up for a suicide pact?
Ann Arbor is a classy broad.
"Get off my plane!" - Ricky Stanzi, Air Force One 2
you first.
now
now
So, who thinks Rodriguez will be breaking out the kitten bucket tonight?
Has anybody found the link for vid streaming yet?
why the hell does the big ten network have no volume at all during the michigan game? it does during select commercials but then it cuts back out for the game.
incredibly annoying
Can't seem to find it.
the alternative is 5440 says toledo at michigan, so im crowwing my fingers, the stupid dish people had no idea what was going on
If you can find it, it is on "Big 10 Alternate". I cannot find this.
try channel 615 Jill..someone on the scout site said its supposed to be there
GOT IT! Channel 615 DirecTV. Not HD, :(
OK. BTN ch 610 just aired the MMB pre-game! Maybe locally they will air the game.
Nope. Iowa on 610. Michigan game on 615.
I'm in Grand Rapids and BTN says Iowa @ Indiana. Are we in a blackout? I have DirecTV.
the game? will it not be on a btn overflow channel, last year they had like 5 channels...
I haven't been able to find a stream for this game. Since the Indiana/Iowa game is the national BTN, most people dont have access. Anyone have any thoughts?
channelsurf.net and myp2p.eu both are negatives.
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thats the problem I have. i can watch the BTN, but its the damn Iowa game. I cant have a satellite at my apartment. god hates me
not as much as he hates people who live in AZ. He makes us watch PAC10 games.
does anyone know of any online stream for todays game? i get the BTN, but its showing the damn Iowa game