you agree their interchangeable?
no, YOU'RE off topic
Yeah all that stuff about VA DE Da'Shawn Hand changing his stuff all around with the exception of Michigan was posted yesterday because EXPLOSIONS. One follow-up from the M Block catching up with Hand's coach:
So really, all it came down to was that Virginia Tech didn't have the degree he was looking for?
"Yeah. This was the thing. With Michigan, I'm telling you, one of those coaches owes that guy lunch man. I mean, he blew us all away. He had us raising our hands, asking questions and everything, it was crazy. I think he was the dean or something? I don't want to misquote it, I'm not exactly sure, but this guy was amazing. He just made it really interesting, Da'shawn was already kind of interested in that program, but after talking to him he was like, 'Wow, that's exactly what I want to do.' "
Hand's never been to Florida, FWIW, so they have to be regarded as the #3 team right now. They're mostly in it because they hired South Carolina's DL coach and Hand likes him. As much as Professor Needs A Raise? Probably not.
Usually the school that is the constant in an otherwise shifting picture is in good shape. If Hand was pulling the trigger today it would be M, with those officials the main barrier remaining.
New highlights of Michigan's QB commit:
Michigan has two and is definitely looking for a third. Chase Winovich is a SAM, Ferns likely a MLB, so they're probably looking for a weakside guy, right? Well… Furbush complicates things since he is definitely a SAM, but in general it looks like it. Michigan is chasing CA LB Dwight Williams—who is planning to come in for the Notre Dame game—FL LB Darrion Owens, and has just offered MO LB Jimmie Swain. Swain is an inside type, as is Williams. Owens just moved down from safety so he could be a fit at WLB despite playing what looks like SAM in his team's spring game—at 6'4", 215 he could also grow into a college-level SAM.
Swain is a consensus three star with some decent offers (Nebraska, K-State, TCU, MSU, Tennessee and the terrifying recruiting machine that is Northwestern). He was on the verge of releasing a top five($) a couple days ago, but his plans may be changing with an influx of offers from Michigan, Oregon, and a couple others.
Meanwhile, Owens just picked up a Georgia offer at their camp, causing some Crystal Ball predictions to roll in for the Dawgs. FWIW, Michigan may be the main challenger right now:
The Georgia offer was "a big one" according to the Oakleaf coaching staff. Owens, who camped at Auburn Sunday, is believed to be a Georgia lean over Michigan and others.
A report from Auburn's camp($) also suggested M and Georgia are having a rare recruiting battle over the kid. FWIW, I ended up watching his hudl video and he's the guy I want. He brings a load when he tackles and cuts through traffic well. Michigan wants Owens to take his time, as he hasn't been to campus yet.
Commissioner Peppers is getting in with Williams, who has his own iphone app. He's got a top 16 that seems like a top-two-and-friends consisting of Florida (official also scheduled) and Michigan. Three other schools who grab officials will likely comprise a top five going into fall. Onetime favorite USC never offered and Williams said he was no longer considering them, so if he stays local it will be with UCLA. Williams is a teammate of Adoree' Jackson, FWIW.
IL OL Jamarco Jones was scheduled to roll through M, MSU, and OSU this weekend; instead he will stay home and play MarioKart:
Won't be making any of my planned visits
— Jamarco Jones (@jjones_73) June 13, 2013
With Ohio State the presumed, if narrow leader that's not good. Visits shake up the status quo more than MarioKart. Mitigating that a bit: Jones apparently posted some madface emoticons—they just show up as boxes for me—afterwards, indicating he's not happy with that development.
Well, it's not like anyone's banking on M picking up OH CB Marshon Lattimore, a Glenville kid reputed enamored with Ohio State, but here's a Wolverine Nation profile anyway. Michigan is scheduled for an official visit along with Alabama, USC, Tennessee(?!), and OSU. That does not constitute a top five according to Lattimore despite obviously being a top five.
Another blaze of Michigan business on 2015 FL WR George Campbell's twitter account, with Campbell exhorting Michigan fans to show fellow 2015 Floridian Jacques Patrick the proverbial love (Patrick is a Derrick-Green-like RB, FWIW) and follow Wilton Speight. Along the way he retweeted TomVH's manual retweet of his original tweet. WE HAVE TO GO DEEPER.
Then Mason Cole's brother started blowing him up with exhortations to head to AA. Twitter, being the iron-clad arbiter of all things, means Campbell will end up in Ann Arbor. Yea, it is in stone.
2015 OH/Denmark TE/DE Hjalte Froholdt is interviewed by ESPN and compares the schools that he's been to in his whirlwind summer:
“All of them stuck out,” Froholdt said. “It’s amazing how big they are. It’s all about family at each school. They’re all very nice people.
“They all have a great stadium, a great locker room and great facilities. There’s not a facility where you ask if they have something and they say, ‘No, I’m sorry we don’t.’ Everyone has four practice fields; it’s hard to compare. I’m happy for everything that has happened.”
This has been your moment of zen.
Michigan is trying to get involved($) with TN WR Josh Malone, a consensus top 100 guy. He's going to narrow to five and take officials; bet this is the only time we hear about him before a Happy Trails is issued.
The M Block confirms that OSU is leading with NJ RB Jonathan Hilliman; Hilliman will be at the BBQ.
Here's 2015 MI WR Brian Cole running routes and such at the NFTC. Cole is probably the top kid in the state next year, but since he doesn't have giant Mickey Mouse hands like Ian Bunting I cannot recommend actually watching the video.
Terrifying recruiting machine Northwestern has interest in 2015 Michigan legacy Tyriq Thompson. Everyone who is going to be at camp. It's a long, long list. M is after 2015 UT LB Osa Masina, who will visit this summer($), possibly for camp. His brother just signed with Utah, FWIW.
Have we mentioned that Chase Winovich got a fourth star from Scout? Well, he did. Moe Ways remains Sleeper Of The Year By Default.
you agree their interchangeable?
Read more carefully.
doesn't preclude a linemen latching on. SAM's need to be able to take on blocks, yes, but they also need to make plays, read plays, avoid blocks, make tackles and cover. If you do all those things well, you'll be better than someone who can't, even if you're 25 lbs too light and 3' too short.
With a program that had undersized stars very recently in Hart, Molk, Robinson, heck even Martin was small for the NT spot he played -- it's strange to me to see the fanbase so hung up on fit with prototypical body size.
All those guys you mention were recruited by previous coaching staffs.
Hoke seems more or less to be orienting towards the Carr/Moeller era Michigan teams, specifically '97.
Your point is that Hoke won't recruit undersized players?
Richardson, Ross, Norfleet, Hill indicate they're not against it.
Who's particularly undersized in that group? Richardson is a field corner and needs to bulk up. If/when he does, he'll be a fine size. Ross is listed something like 6'1", 225 lbs. Norfleet is a punt/kick returner. Hill is an H-back and listed at 6'3", 235 lbs.
None of those guys is undersized for the position he was recruited except MAYBE Terry Richardson.
Hill is a 6'2 TE - the other's we've recruited have been 6'5-6'8.
Richardson is a 5'9 CB - this staff has made no secret of it's preference for 6'1ish CBs
Norfleet is a 5'7 RB - compare him to Johnson, Shallman and others
Are these players roles more limited - probably. When you stray from the norm, you're probably more specialized which goes both ways (6'9 linemen are probably not OT's, Shawn Crable wasn't a middle linebacker, etc.)
The best (or two of the best) H-backs of recent NFL vintage are Chris Cooley, who is 6'3", 243 lbs., and Aaron Hernandez, who is 6'1", 245 lbs. I don't see how a guy who's 6'2" and 235 lbs. as a high schooler is outside the norm for an H-back.
I don't need to compare Norfleet to Johnson and Shallman, because Johnson and Shallman weren't recruited to play punt returner.
Actually, this staff HAS kept it a secret that they prefer 6'1" cornerbacks, because they've recruited a bunch of 5'10"-ish guys for the field corner position. Richardson is 5'9", Jourdan Lewis is 5'10", Raymon Taylor is 5'10", etc. If approximately half of the corners are in that range, I don't know why you would assume they want guys who are 6'1"-ish. They do want those guys - but they're looking for them as boundary corner types who can maybe play in the slot or convert to safety. You will have me convinced that they prefer 6'1" corners when Channing Stribling locks down the field corner spot.
that they perfer interchangeable part. They want to be able to flip the assignments for NT and DT without it making a difference - two Mike Martin's would be perfect. They want to flip the DEs too - two Graham/Hands would be perfect. They want to flip both ILBs - no problem.
They want the same for CB. If there was a 6'1 version of Richardson and Lewis and Taylor, they'd gladly take him.
The way recruiting is going, I suspect you'll see both of our starting corners 6 foot plus within the next few years.
That might be true for the last LB spot, but the coaches were specifically targeting the SAM position after Ferns.
In March and April we saw offers go out to Sam Hubbard, Kyle Berger and Chase Winovich.
Let's look at the recent recruiting of LBs. Everyone thought we wanted Ferns for SAM, but then it turns out probably not. Winovich was next, but then people were perplexed by the offer to Kyron Watson, going so far as to argue the coaches didn't know how tall he was. Winovich commits and now the Furbush offer 'complicates' things.
That's not the word I would use. It only applies if you start with the assumption that the coaches are playing the 2017 depth chart game the way we are, slotting guys into specific positions.
I really doubt they are. I think they're definitly targeting some bigger players who can fit the SAM prototype, but there's too many variables (attrition, health, busts, etc.) to peg every kid to an exact position.
Ditto for the OL - sure some 6'9 kid like Ward is a pure OT and Molk was a pure OC, but most of the 6'5 kids are best to simply classify as OL. Schofield, Braden, Schilling - these are the kind of linemen that Michigan will continue to recruit and pegging them as LG or RTs or anything else is kind of pointless when people move around so much.
We are pegging these recruits to certain position because we are told by the recruits themselves that they are being recruited for that position.
For example when Kugler first got offered we thought he was being recruited as a OG. It was later confirmed that the coaches wanted him as a C. We now peg him as a C, while there is still the chance that he plays OG.
How is it pointless to peg him as a C? It allows us to discuss and analyze that position and depth moving forward.
Gant was recruited as a Safety. Shallman was recruited as a RB, but Hoke right away compared him to an H-back. These things change.
In Kugler's case, and in others, there are guys pegged for specific spots. Fine, but if Miller pans out and Kugler is good, Kugler could play guard too.
There's more variability than there is certainly.
I/We are not ignoring position changes. Can you point to a post where anyone has discredited or ignored position changes?
I even said Kugler can play OG.
You said it was pointless to peg recruits to certain positions. When people peg/project players to a certain position, they are not saying position changes will never happen. They are simply doing so because of information given to them and for the sake of discussion and analysis.
This is what a recruiting profile would look like in your world.
Analysis: Plays LB in HS. We have been told coaches recruited him to play ILB. It is pointless to discuss or analyze anthing so lets just wait possibly 2 years until he sees the field.
between throwing up your hands and saying who knows, and projecting 4 deep 3 years out a positions that are highly flexible, assuming the coaches are doing the same, and then speculating about changes in recruiting strategy that result from said assumptions.
For Ferns position I'd say LB, then in a discussion not that he projects favorably to the MIKE but maybe SAM if no one else emerges.
What I would NOT say is - we need to recruit as WIL/MIKE/SAM because we only have X guys at WIL/MIKE/SAM 3 years from now. Not when every single year(!) multiple people get shuffled around between adjacent positions. Planning/pretending/and making conjecture as if these positions aren't common is asinine.
I disagree - in fact, to my untrained eye, it has always struck me that Hoke and his staff approach recruiting much more like a "draft for need" situation rather than a BPA philosophy. For example, picking Kalid Hill so early in the process, as well as AJ Williams, the various different linebacker profiles,etc.
In fact, that seems to set them apart from Urban and his crew - for example, the year they took 3 or 4 WDE seemingly because they were highly rated (Spence, Washington, etc) rather than filling out their OL needs with 3 stars. That seems to be a system designed for high Rivals rankings, rather than maximizing on field success.
Wishful thinking, perhaps.
And certainly in the last few years, they were filling holes. Some guys they want for very specific things (e.g., snapping, H-back, field corner, kick returner, QB). But I think when we talking about a guy being a RT or LT, or a slot WR, SDE vs DT, even an OG vs an OT in some cases, we're overthinking things.
I wonder what % of the roster has changed positions. I bet it's sizeable (maybe 1/3?)
And yeah, i've heard that about OSU too - but it seems like wishful thinking.
I agree that we as a board overthink these things. We also have a very hazy idea of the athletic abilities of each player. The coaches (generally) know who fits where.
But the linebacker debate does have a point, IMO. If you look at position-changers, how many of them have a realistic shot at seeing the field at either their former or current positions? We have a couple of exceptions in Gordon and Beyer, but this raises the question of why players recruited specifically as linebackers aren't at SAM instead of them? I think the difference between SAM and the other two LBs in this scheme is much bigger than the difference between the two tackles or guard and center.
Specifically, I think length and block-shedding ability (yes, they're rather related) are much more important for a SAM than a WILL or MIKE. Pass rushing ability is another important trait...more so than being able to cover sideline-to-sideline, although it's nice if you're Thor and can make a slot receiver crap his pants.
By my count 8 out of 22 projected starters have moved positions.
While we haven't had a recent switch from ILB to OLB(SAM), I think that has more to do with the Rodriguez recruits being smaller than this staff likes than anything else. Now that we're recruiting people like Ferns and McCray, it won't be uncommon.
They asked questions and raised their hands and it was crazy. Was it subs crazy? Because we don't want any troublemakers here.
If McCray ends up inside, I hope our third LB commit is a SAM.
Watch McCray's highlights again - the guy is clearly taller then most of the other players. I'd bet that he measures in at 6'3" or more in August.
Is it just me or does Speight have kind of an odd throwing motion, that actually seems to benefit him quite well? It seems like he has very little wind up motion, so his entire motion seems really quick. At least in highlight videos, it doesn't seem to affect his power or accuracy as he completed very accurate long bombs and short passes.
I see it too. But he gets the ball out quick and is pretty accurate.
Man Dawson really does look like he could easily gain 20 to 30 more pounds. This line will be terrifying in the coming years!
switch to a 3-4 defense in the future? We have took alot of guys that seem to fit that system. Guys like Mone,Chase,Marshall,Taco,these last 3 guys could all be OLB in the 3-4,Mone could be the NT.
The 4-3 under is essentially the same as the 3-4 apparently (I'm no expert, this is just what I've heard on here). I guess the SAM linebacker and the SDE are basically the same in those schemes.
Wilton highlight tape this guy just throws the ball so easily. IF he plays like this he will move up for sure. It looks like Shane has some competition.