I'VE HAD JUST ABOUT ENOUGH OF YOU SONNY
fire dumars
in case you were holding out hope you shouldn't have been
Orson on the Iron Bowl.
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So I live in Ann Arbor and happened to be watching when this segment came up. I believe the wording was that Steven Threet MAY transfer and that at this point it was not confirmed. So while the writing appears to be on the wall this is by no means an official confirmation.
I amended the title and OP in light of this.
My feelings on the QB situation is that no matter who plays it can only get better. Think about it, Tate/Denard can't really do much worse in the passing department and God knows they are going to be better at running the ball which only opens up our offense. I don't think people are putting enough emphasis on our two new QBs athletic ability and how that will help them. For an example, one onlys has to look to Pryor and Ohio State. He was a terrible passer, but won games with his feet. While I am not going to sit here and say Tate is a better runner than Pryor, I will put money on him being a better passer which basically evens out. The difference you will see this year is that when things aren't going well in the passing game our young QBs will still be able to make plays with their legs, something that was lacking last year. I just don't think it can really get any worse!
I have always thought that Pryor was a mediocre passer, but he was also the consensus #1 recruit in the nation last year, stepped into a situation with a great supporting cast on both sides of the ball, a senior QB to "mentor" him, and he still put up decent-but-not-great numbers. Tate is a very good QB prospect, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking that he is even as good as Pryor was at this point in his college career. I am as optimistic as anyone about the future of this team and the young QBs coming into the program, but losing Threet (if this is true) will be a huge blow to this team that neither Tate nor Robinson will be able to fully absorb.
If the question is whether Forcier is better or worse than Pryor was a year ago, then I don't think it's as cut and dried as you're making it out to be. Pryor was the consensus #1 recruit that he was for a lot of reasons, but as a passer, one can argue for or against Forcier being the stronger player. Tate lacks the size that Pryor has, but in terms of raw talent, Tate's accuracy is as valuable as Pryor's elusiveness may have been to us had we picked him up in 08.
Without taking in any more hypotheticals though, I do agree that neither of the new recruits will be able to make up for the loss of a tempered QB, regardless of said QB's record on the field.
If no one else is panicking yet, I think I will go ahead and OMG PANIC.
If true, this is very very bad. We now have no qb's with any experience - again. Oh there's Sheridan, but as we know Sheridan = Death (unless we play Minnesota).
OMG PANIC PANIC PANIC
Forcier will to prove to be a wunderkind and never ever get hurt. Yeah, that'll happen. Yeah, that's it. That's what's gonna happen.
Threet leaving would be horrible. Threet's our only experienced D-1 quality QB and, when healthy, he was decent as a FR. So many people heap scorn on Threet, forgetting FR almost never do shit. He WOULD be markedly better this year. Sure, we'll be throwing a spindly true frosh out there (yes, Forcier is spindly) and you really think he's NOT going to get injured? Don't bet on it!
Then what? Another little true frosh who isn't a great thrower. Great. Hello, 9 in the box. Good luck with that.
And then there's Sheridan = death.
Ugh.
He's gone. We're facebook friends.
Please elaborate...
he removed richrod from his top friends app
"Not a Michigan Man," "Never wanted him anyway" talk.
tend not to indulge in that kind of talk. If they do, they get flamed hard.
First of all, Elvis Grbak and John Navarre both started as Freshmen. Navarre started due to injuries to Henson, but Elvis went day one aginst ND. Both ended up being darn good. Before people go all ape shit, I get that this does not mean Tate or DRob will be outstanding. But folks are acting like Henne was such a rare case and there are two other good exampes from Michigan. (Isn't there some guy at OSU who started as a freshman?)
Secondly, let's assume that the rumor is true and Threet is gone. I'm wouldn't be happy about it, but panic is misplaced. Let's face it, Threet just isn't all that good. He is not a threat on the ground, and the defensives eventaully ignored that part of the spread option. IMHO, he just doesn't have a D-I (or FBS or whatever the hell it is these days)arm. Last year he was simply unable to zing a ball over the middle. (When he tried to put velocity on he was inaccurate.) He also did not get the ball out to recievers near fast enough on the wide screens. He was useless on deep routes. This left us with a passing game of short, safe sideline routes. CB's rolled up on recievers, safeties played the run and Zoltan was a busy, busy man.
I also do not put all that much faith in his ability to get THAT much better. He was not an 18 year who hadn't had time in the wieght room. This was already his second or third year in a college program right? Sure, his decision making was going to get better, so he would have been able to decide where to put the ball. But, he lacks the physical ability to make the all the throws the offense demands. True, his arm was the best on the 2008 team. However, that had more to do with Sheridan = death than Threet = functional Big Ten QB.
Eventually, we are left with the issue of depth. I agree that this is a legit concern if Threet leaves and is why I hope he stays. But, I think we would be loosing a third string QB rather than a starter. I would rather have two guys who (I hope and pray) can actually run the offense be one and two, than have a guy with experience but who just can't get it done. The timing of this also suggests that Michigan has the same preference and has told Threet. I would, however, rather have Threet at 3rd string than Sheridan. (Hey Feagin, why don't you go ahead and take some reps at QB anyway?)
Of course, this whole thing could be a wild rumor.
...fan man.
Read this post...
http://www.mgoblog.com/content/post-mortem-quarterback
And I'd like anyone to tell me why we should fit the square peg of Threet into the round hole of Rich Rod's offense when he's got 2 perfect candidates to take over the job, who have been running the offense for years.
Very nice analysis, FannMan, and I agree: Threet's departure would impact the depth at the QB position more than anything else. Sure, his experience in the system is nice, but based on some of the posts, Threet was a QB with legitimate promise.
Not based on what I saw. He consistently had difficulty throwing spirals. He consistently missed considerably open receivers (to put it nicely). He seemed to lack the arm strength needed to make tough completions. He was inaccurate throwing screen passes (incompletions/thrown balls that killed the receiver's momentum).
And he did not fit the system. This will not change. Not now, and not ever. Threet would be no more than a stop-gap this year under Forcier/Robinson could really take the reins. Yes, it would be great to ease Forcier/Robinson into the role. Oh well.
Two closing comments. One: I don't think any of us expected Threet to start each game this year anyway. Two: we're kidding ourselves if we expected this year's version of the Wolverines to improve THAT much. It may hurt in the short-term, but Forcier/Robinson starting immediately would help much more in the long-term (2010/2011), and that's the realistic expectation for a team coming off a 3-9 season.
Was his lack of arm strength for a big pro style quarterback. He had very little velocity and rarely threw tight spirals. His best throw was middle seam route that he could loft. From the very start of their freshman year, you could tell that Henne and Mallet had excellent arm strength.
Obviously, you are young and don't really know much about the Elvis lead team in 1989 and the Navarre games of 2000.
in 1989, Michigan was in the midst of a five year stretch of winning a big ten championship. That was a period of unequaled excellence in our modern past. He was dropped into a team that crushed the opposition. He had a nice year. But the rest of that team was incredible. [EDIT: more importantly, michael Taylor came back to lead the team to the rose bowl.]
In 2000, the offense was the best that I can remember. As i recall, four of the offensive linemen were drafted and played the next year in the NFL. Anthony Thomas was a senior. David Terrell and Marquis [EDIT: Walker] were the WRs. In the first big ten game of the season, Henson had to be rushed back from his injury to spell Navarre who was well on his way to losing that game. He was terrible as a REDSHIRT freshman. Henson comes in and turns that offense into the greatest show on turf. Navarre was not good even with outstanding talent around him.
So let's not assume Forcier is going to be even decent this year, should he be forced into the starting role.
And for all of the things Threet wasn't good at last year, he made very good decisions in the passing game, and arm strength is unlikely to be an issue assuming his arm has healed from last years injuries.
I am going to put the tone or your post up to a lack of morning coffee. Have a cup.
Please go back and actually read my post. As I said, I only brought up Grback and Navarre to point out two other QBs who started at Michigan as freshman. That was it. I totally agree that the history of other QBs does not mean anything as far as Tate or DRob (or anyone else) are concerned. In fact, I said so in my post.
I also agree that those teams were incredible. They were fun to watch. Oh the good old days.
By the way, I am "young" enough to have been a student for Elvis' first game. I am also old enough not to make silly assumptions just because I disagree with someone's post.
Renaldo Sagesse, are you the actual Renaldo Sagesse defensive lineman?
let me answer that one for you: no
There is no other reason why he would want to transfer. Thank god we have all of these Steven Threet experts who know exactly what he is thinking about everything.
Don't rip on the kid for rumors of him transfering, don't say he wasn't tough enough to stick around and tough it out, or "oh he just needs to figure out he'll never be an NFL qb". Thats fucking stupid. He's a 20 year old kid and now rumors come out about him wanting to transfer, noone knows exactly how much merit there is to them or why he would even want to and people come out on the internet ripping him.
If you want to talk about how it could impact the team fine, but don't sit there, tearing into some 20 year old kid you don't know because he maybe doesn't want to play quarterback for the team you like.
He struggled in a completely new system as a redshirt freshman and now he will never be succesful in college? I'm glad one year can tell us all we need to know about athletes. I'm sure noone has struggled as a freshman and then improved. Most kids don't even see the field that early. He was thrown into a poor situation and performed like most redshirt freshman in their first year of a new system would, poorly.
And why do you have to say he's ducking competition? Was he running from competition when he transfered into UofM when Mallet was still here? You have no knowledge of his situation other than a rumor, and you come on trashing him for maybe, possibly making a decision, when you have zero knowledge of any context he might be making it in, other than "he's afraid of competition.
But did you watch the same games that I did? Outside of two games against two of the worst defenses the team saw all year (Purdue and Notre Dame), Threet was terrible. I saw nothing to suggest that Threet could be better than a mediocre QB at the Big Ten level.
Threet may not have been ideal for the system, but he never will be, either. Assuming that either Forcier or Robinson has an ADEQUATE arm, one of those two will be the QB sooner rather than later. We learned last year that the QB must be able to run for RR's offense to operate smoothly. Threet cannot run.
He completed just over 50% of his passes last year. Even if that increases by 5%, which is unlikely since so many completions last year were bubble screens, is that really enough? He still does not fit the system, and the playbook is smaller as a result.
I don't harbor any ill will against him. I think he did his best in a lousy situation, and I wish him all the best ... wherever he goes. But let's not paint an overly rosy picture of the QB play last year.
If Threet transfer to a Division 1A school wouldn't he have 2 years of playing time? He would have to sit out this upcoming year as a redshirt sophomore, but then would still have his redshirt junior and senior years. Is this correct or am I missing something? If he still has 2 years of playing time then I think the transfer makes sense. If not, then not so much, especially with the oppurtunity to get a degree from Michigan.
I don't believe you can Redshirt more than once unless it's a Medical Redshirt, but he would still have to sit out. Which means he would be a 4th year Junior before he could see the field again.
I think he winds up in FCS or Div 2. Part of the reason he came back up to MI was homesickness, could he wind up at Grand Valley?
OK, so if Threet goes, good-bye. We will likely start a freshman, OK. But, as for a "tempered QB," Sheridan will fill the role nicely. He is pretty smart, so I hear. His dad is a coach and I also understand that coaching is Sheridan's ultimate goal anyway. So, Sheridan can provide some guidance. We do not need Threet for that. And, the same ability Threet could have to improve applies as well to Sheridan (yes, I did see him play, but he is not immune to improvement). So, D-Rob can be safety if he wants and Feagin could also compete for QB. Another tough year, of course. But look at the depth at QB (Tate, Justin, Nicky); we could lock up Gardner in 2010 easily with that depth. I am not saying Tate will be the next coming, either. But his skill set will get him through more situations successfully than we witnessed last year. The aged O-line will also help with the overall progression of the year. The circumstances aren't there for BCS contention yet, but they are in place for an improved season.
You are 1000 kinds of stupid.
1000 kinds of stupid likes it when you stroke my beard. Baaaaa! Be weary of the petting zoo, for we are watching.
I have my doubts that's the reason Threet would transfer. Keep in mind that when he transferred here he was 3rd on the depth chart behind Henne and Mallet. And Mallet was supposed to be the QB for the next 3-4 years after Henne graduated. If playing time was the issue I don't see why he would transfer from a place where he was the back up and competing to start (GT) to a place where he would be 3rd string and behind a highly touted 5 star for conceivably his entire college career (Mich).
It sucks, sucks, sucks, sucks, and sucks. And it sucks some more. Fuck.
I wish Steve all the best, and I hold no ill will towards him, and I hope he's happy and successful wherever he goes. But I was fond of him as a football player - to some extent I was hoping he'd end up with a story like those "Untouchables" kids at Kentucky - and I was really hopeful that he'd succeed on the field for us.
This decimates the QB position from a depth standpoint and reduces the *liklihood* that we'll be competitive this year, and even next. It sucks something awful.
Best of luck Steve. I hope you don't get too much grief on your way out - know that my personal grief is not aimed at you but at the general bloodymindedness of the universe*.
________
*- yes, I owe Brian $5.
According to Detroit channel 4 the Threet transfer is just a rumor right now and they said it was just a rumor within fan sites right now. They said nothing concrete about it. Rob Parker from detnews said that it wouldn't surprise him because he didn't do much for Michigan so if he transfers so what we have better players now.
Rob Parker formerly of the DetNews.
Per Michigan Daily, he is releasing a statement tomorrow.
http://www.michigandaily.com/content/2009-02-16/michigan-quarterback-ste...
I can't imagine that he is releasing a statement that he is sticking around. I'm pretty sure this is the end.
He is gone, per the Freep:
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090215/SPORTS0201/90...
All my best to Threet; he has some grapefruits and will always be respected in my book.
Now, for the love, Forcier, do not get injured!!!! The fate of Michigan football now rests on the shoulders of an 18 year old kid... though could be worse, it could be (with all due respect) Sheridan.
I don't think there's that much of a drop off between Tate and Denard. If Denard plays, the team will run 75% of the time and if Tate plays the team will be closer to 65% in run plays.
Let's hope to God Tate Forcier is the second coming of Christ.
From Tate:
"ya he left."
