Three And Out Takes: Carr, Rodriguez, Martin Comment Count

Brian

imageSo. It's out.

I'm impressed with the large numbers of people who seem to have already blazed their way through Three and Out. It took me a while. I stopped for a few days after "Honeymoon from Hell" because it was too depressing; every chapter featuring a game I knew they'd lose spectacularly required a little bit of willpower to start.

But I'm done and a large number of you are done. It is time to talk the turkey.

We've got this document. What does it say about major players in the saga? I was planning one part here but this got long, so today we'll cover Carr, Rodriguez, and Bill Martin, with various players with less prominent roles in the story covered in a post tomorrow.

Lloyd Carr

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It says a few things about Lloyd Carr that are not nice, and implies more. Bacon's said he left a lot of things out that he could not get multiple sources on, which is both his responsibility as an actual journalist and horribly frustrating.

The main strikes:

  1. Informing his former players he would sign any transfer papers they wanted at his meeting with them after their bowl game, a marked contrast from the Bo-Bump transition.
  2. Telling Mallett he "needed to leave".
  3. Having zero control over his former players, or—worse—tacitly endorsing their behavior by not jumping down their throats.
  4. Offering something short of the fiery defense Bo would have launched once the program started taking fire.

That's aside from the state of the roster when Rodriguez took over, which wasn't specifically directed at the new man.

Those seem like major strikes. Screw it: those are major strikes, particularly #3. I find it inconceivable that Eric Mayes would made it thirty seconds into the embarrassing "we own this program" speech before Bo burst from his chest like a Xenomorph. Carr does nothing. Multiple former players trash Rodriguez in public. Carr does nothing. The 2009 golf outing that even guys like Chris Balas* come back from disgusted at, naming specific names of players (Marlin Jackson, Dhani Jones) who embarrassed themselves with their behavior. Is Carr even at it? It's worse if he is.

So, like, whatever. Carr doesn't owe anyone anything except the 400k a year he was pulling down as associate AD. But he's no program patriarch. He's just a guy who used to coach here. His loyalty is to an incredibly specific version of Michigan only. The difference between the Bo guys and the Carr guys is obvious. Bo guys organize a weird counterproductive rally for RR; Carr guys go on MNF and state they're from "Lloyd Carr's Michigan" or storm the AD's office to demand RR's firing after every loss**. There are exceptions, obviously. The trend is clear.

I have no sympathy for arguments the guy is being painted unfairly when he was offered the opportunity to tell his side a dozen times. If history is written by the losers here it's because the winners don't care what the public thinks. They can't be surprised when the public thinks they're not Bo.

Carr did a lot of things for the program but his legacy is significantly tarnished by the pit it found itself in immediately after his departure. It was his lack of a coaching tree, lack of serious coordinators, and lack of tolerance for Les Miles that caused Michigan to hire Rodriguez in the first place. It was his lack of a roster—seven scholarship OL!—and lack of support that provided Rodriguez with two strikes before he even coached a game. We can argue about how much is Carr's fault and how much is Rodriguez's, but figuring out the latter is pointless since RR is gone and everyone hates him. The former is "far too much."

*[By this I mean guys who work for publications for whom access is lifeblood. They're naturally more circumspect. The reaction on premium sites to this golf outing was unprecedented, with people moved to call actual former players out by name after years of dark mutterings.]

**[Not in the book; something I got from a good source.]

Rich Rodriguez

123110_SPT_Gator Bowl_MRM

via AnnArbor.com

If you left a goat in the locker room after a Michigan loss and then locked Rodriguez in it for five minutes, you would return to find the walls smeared with blood and feta. There would be no trace of the goat.

Rich Rodriguez was obviously not a stoic guy. His sideline tantrums proved that. The extent of his leg-gashing, table-throwing, goat-cheese-making post-loss hissies is probably the thing that Rodriguez is pissed about. They don't make him look like a stable dude. Neither does his descent into J. Edgar Hoover-esque paranoia, no matter how intent the university was on making that paranoia seems reasonable.

By the time I got through it, my reaction to Rodriguez's portrayal was different than that of the media reviewing the book. It doesn't paint Rodriguez as a guy I would want in charge of my football program. I can deal with one goat-annihilating postgame tantrum a year. Rodriguez seemed to have one after every loss.

So why do most neutral accounts play up the Rodriguez sympathy angle? They do not take the truth that the local media is dominated by agenda-laden twits to be self-evident. When Mike Rosenberg—who comes off as a real winner—bombed Rodriguez with a bunch of half-truths and misrepresentations I bombed back, stating that it was obvious the buyout kerfuffle was university-directed. Surprise: it was university-directed as they tried to get out of their 2.5 million dollar hook. Similarly, Free Press Jihad is re-exposed as a bunch of half-truths at best run by a couple of guys who "had countable hours in there at some point" but had it edited out, no doubt because that's not at all important in a discussion about whether Michigan was more than doubling their allotted time on Sundays.

If you go into the book knowing Rosenberg and Snyder published an embarrassing hack-job and that a large part of the media firestorm surrounding Rodriguez was a combination of University incompetence and the tiny lizard brains of certain folk in the local media*, the main takeaway from the book in re: RR is the sheer height of the plumes his emotional volcano shoots up. I mean, Bacon spends pages and pages on Rodriguez playing up the traditions of Michigan to his players. That's an obvious reaction to the Michigan Man business. I assumed Rodriguez was not an idiot when it came to firing up his troops, I guess, and that stuff shot by me. Beating a bleating ungulate against the wall of the Notre Dame locker room until it bursts into a kaleidoscope of viscera… that stays with you.

I feel bad for the guy. I'm glad he's gone.

*[The rest a combo of Rodriguez never winning any games and his remarkable ability to stick his leg into the press conference bear trap.]

Bill Martin

University of Michigan Athletic Director Bill Martin watches over Thursday afternoon, August 20th's football practice at the Michigan practice facility outside of Schembechler Hall. 
Lon Horwedel | Ann Arbor.com

Good Lord, man. I find it hard to believe that a guy who dragged Michigan kicking and screaming into massive financial success and smoothly hired John Beilein (admittedly after making a questionable hire in Tommy Amaker) was really as incompetent as… uh… I believed he was after the sailboat incident. That's Yogi Berra right there but it's also true.

Here's the the story of the post-Carr coaching search from the perspective of this site:

  1. Kirk Ferentz is reached out to and either is or is not offered; if offered he may have been given an offer that was a paycut. Ferentz fades but it seems like there was truth to the rumors.
  2. Flailing. Miles heavily discussed. ESPN reports Michigan contacts him after Ferentz falls through. They agree to wait until the SEC championship game is over. LSU boards buzz that Les has told his team he's out. I would be "surprised if it was not" Miles.
  3. Infamous ESPN report.
  4. Sailboat. "Have a great day." Sailboat.
  5. Conclusion reached in the aftermath is that M "essentially passed on Miles."
  6. Tedford and Schiano now start getting thrown around along with odder names like Grobe and Pinkel. Also some guy named Hoke. So much Hoke.
  7. Kirk Ferentz momentarily back. Then gone.
  8. Schiano talked to, offered, accepts, changes mind, offered again, says no.
  9. Sean Payton!
  10. Miles again! Seriously!
  11. Miles out again.
  12. Jim Grobe. Jim Grobe does not get an exclamation point.
  13. KC Keeler! Lane Kiffin! Seriously!
  14. Rodriguez out of nowhere.
  15. Sigh… Peanut Butter Jelly Time.

It seemed like a clown show, and behind the scenes… clown show. Martin wants Dungy, has no idea if Dungy—who is a broadcaster and can be contacted by anyone at any time for any reason—will take the job. Wants Ferentz, has no idea that the president of the university will stab him if he hires Ferentz. Wants Miles, has no idea that Lloyd Carr will stab him if he hires Miles. Somehow misses on Schiano, then has Rodriguez fall into his lap and grabs him before anyone can think about it, which sets up the whole buyout fiasco the media will spin for six months. The sailboat incident is even worse since Bacon asserts one of the main problems was Martin had a new cell phone and didn't know how to use it.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh /dies

Martin himself drops out of the story shortly thereafter, which is another indictment of the guy because what enters is a vast institutional incompetence that starts the Rodriguez media cockroach katamari rolling. Everything from the buyout to the Dorsey situation is mishandled not only by Rodriguez (sometimes not even by Rodriguez, as with the buyout) but by the people who should be telling him what is and is not possible. When Rodriguez went to bat for Dorsey with a guy in admissions the guy in admissions should have looked at the guy's transcript before saying yes, and then when he did look at the transcript he should have said no.

Instead we actually sign the guy—opening us up to the most cynical and loathsome of all the lizard-brain media attacks—only to find out he is nowhere near eligible. And don't get me started on the CARA forms, which was a special brand of idiocy all on its own. Martin did a lot of big picture stuff very well, but he was totally unprepared to fix a department that had started downhill long before he arrived.

For all the crap I give Brandon about his failure on big picture stuff, he cleaned out the deadwood with alacrity.

TOMORROW: Players, reporters, me/us(!?).

Comments

mackbru

October 26th, 2011 at 4:44 PM ^

I think Bacon, like the OP, casts Carr unfairly. Because Carr didn't talk to Bacon, Carr's actions and motives are viewed in the worst possible light. Carr's first responsibility was to his players. Therefore, once RR was selected, I don't think Carr was wrong to conclude that, because the team was facing a change in both coaching and scheme, the players deserved the freedom to do what was best for them. This is not an unreasonable stance. He wasn't urging the players to leave. There's a big difference.

Nor would it have been unreasonable for Carr to tell Mallett that he probably wasn't right for RR's offense. He wasn't right for it. I seriously doubt that Carr unilaterally called Mallett and told him what to do. No doubt Mallett sought Carr's advice. Which proved to be correct advice. RR has no interest in conforming to the QBs he inherited. He tried to turn Threet into a spread QB, for crissake. 

I had my issues with Carr. It was time for him to step aside. But there's absolutely no reason to believe that Carr suddenly turned into some sort evil, moustache-twisting villain. He served the school well for many years and was widely considered a man of immense integrity and class. He didn't cooperate with Bacon. RR did. So guess which coach wins the spin battle.

 

 

Ed Shuttlesworth

October 26th, 2011 at 6:10 PM ^

<blockquote>Amen.  Judge the guy on his record, which you mention is one filled with class and integrity, rather than on his decision to remain silent and above the fray. </blockquote>

You only get to stay silent and above the fray if you aren't shit-disturbing behind the scenes.  Otherwise, you're just unaccountable.

His record isn't one of class and integrity, since he didn't act with class and integrity after stepping down as coach.  He sabotaged the candidacy of Les Miles, far and away the best candidate for the job (**); he, on his own accord, encouraged transfers; and he did little to nothing to support the new coach or the program.

It;'s pretty clear what happened:  Hoke, DeBord, and English were his guys, when they didn't get the job, he got behind Rodriguez as an anybody-but-Miles candidate, and then undercut Rodriguez. 

Extremely, extremely weak sauce.

(**) Based on some entirely petty, gossipy 15-20 year old bullshit.  Get the fuck over it already.

dcmaizeandblue

October 26th, 2011 at 6:50 PM ^

What?  Being silent does not mean he was above the fray in any respect.  I'm not sure why you want to be so selective, but that is not a logical conclusion at all.  I'm not sure why placing some scrutiny on Carr automatically means RR is absolved from blame.

Is it really that unbelievable that everyone involved here messed up and is to blame in some capacity?

Butterfield

October 26th, 2011 at 7:14 PM ^

When the converse to being silent is sure to be front page headlines which prolong a controversy that ended for the majority of Michigan fans approximately 9 months ago, I think remaining silent is the way to go.  That's all I'm saying.  Much more bad than good would come of Lloyd defending himself....except for some of us here, people have moved on. 

M-Wolverine

October 27th, 2011 at 11:59 AM ^

If there'd be more response, if the book didn't come out right in the middle of the football season. To keep it from becoming a full blown flamewar distraction. (Which is an interest dicotomy that people who say all these media distractions cost us games on the field completely endorse the book...and seem to have no problem with the timing of it's release).

markusr2007

October 26th, 2011 at 5:07 PM ^

I can't believe all this stuff about Carr and Martin.  Bo would have kicked both of their asses in public and never apologized.

Sometimes I think what Michigan really needed back in 2008 was a cantakerous badass bastard drill sergeant-like person, an R. Lee Ermey  type, as a head coach who would treat everyone the same, telling them all - players, fans, alumni, former players and the press - where to toe the line and where to step off.   Break them all down into tiny quark particles and then build them back up into a united family and a great football team again.

"Pile! Infantry! O-five-hundred! You made it."

I can't wait until tomorrow's post about the players, but I'm going to read it thinking what would Bo do?

I don't think Brady Hoke is like Bo at all, except with his colloquialisms like "Well....".  Hoke doesn't even swear. With former players and the press, Hoke has been a playful blackbear cub to Bo's "I don't care what you think!" and "What the hell do you want?".  

Just once I'd like to see Brady Hoke absolutely lose it during a postgame press conference, turn into the Incredible Hulk , then pick up the lecturn and throw it effortless across the room while seething and staring directly at Drew Sharp and Michael Rosenberg.

That won't ever happen.  And that is sad.

Meanwhile, Bo's ghost is pissed off and no doubt following Bill Martin and Lloyd Carr around trying desperately kick their asses into next week, but he keeps whiffing like Charlie Brown, as ghosts do.

 

 

 

Gulo Blue

October 26th, 2011 at 5:02 PM ^

Some people seem to assume that "Carr's camp" followed Carr's lead when it came to being anti-RR, but now they we know that RR upset some of Carr's assistant coached with the interview process, it seems entirely possible that it's the other way around.  Carr seemed to be pro-RR until members of his camp felt disrespected.

BRCE

October 27th, 2011 at 1:53 AM ^

RR didn't disrespect Carr's assistants by not retaining them (save Jackson). He did what virtually every new regime coach in the country does. The fact that the "firing" of these assistants was such a culture shock here only further advances the notion that Michigan had become a bubble out of touch with the rest of college football.

If Carr indeed did a 180 on RR based on RR picking his own staff as opposed to keeping a significant portion of his, he needs to grow up and get real.

Gulo Blue

October 27th, 2011 at 12:05 PM ^

...where the old staff waits in the hall all day to interview for jobs that don't exist?  ...the part about Gittleson?  It's not Carr getting upset about these things, it's the assistants getting upset about these thing.  After the assistants are upset, whose side you think Carr is going to take?

BRCE

October 27th, 2011 at 12:49 PM ^

I buy the book tomorrow at Bacon's appearance in Nicola's. As for Carr's assistants -- BOO-FREAKING-HOO. I'm sure had they not lost 6 of 7 to Ohio State and 5 of 6 bowl games at the time, they would have much a much hotter collective commodity.

I imagine that these guys saw Michigan as a cushy place to work. I have nothing but disdain for old boy networks in all walks and, if that was the basis for their expectations, would find it impossible to sympathize. I don't know what's written about Gittleson, but the man had become an out-and-out joke with a large segment of the fanbase and seen as a symbol of loyalty gone wrong in our program.

If Carr didn't want to stand by the HEAD COACH of MICHIGAN, he shouldn't have been collecting $400,000 salaries from the University. The fact that he did while not supporting the very institution that paid him is arrogance epitomized.

Blue boy johnson

October 26th, 2011 at 5:04 PM ^

Lloyd and Rich in the good old days

 

"I've prepared myself for change, but I think if you look at what Rich has done, his teams are going to run the football as well as anybody in the country," Carr said. "I think from that standpoint, if you go back to Bo's (Schembechler) philosophy of running the football. "I think Bo would like what he's going to do." Carr finally was asked about the fact Rodriguez is not what some call a "Michigan man," since he had no connection to the Michigan program prior to Monday's hiring. Bo Schembechler arrived at Michigan in 1969; his successor, Gary Moeller, had coached under Bo; and Carr had been an assistant under both coaches. "Well, he is a Michigan man," Carr said. "He's here. That's enough said." From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20071218/SPORTS0201/712180377/Carr-has-warm-…
Photobucket

lexus larry

October 27th, 2011 at 8:54 AM ^

As I posted elsewhere, as LC was aiming for his greener pastures, he received a commitment from the Athletic Department for all his coaches to receive an extra years pay (i.e. paying them for 2008, whether they were here or not, IIRC).

Which means, everyone knew they may not be part of the new regime.  And that's how things work in the world of professional coaching, to begin with...

Gulo Blue

October 27th, 2011 at 12:16 PM ^

Go back about a page or  two and read a few pages.  

"Any labor lawyer can tell you it's not firing employees that generates lawsuits but the way you fire them.  And this was not handled well-creating another layer of well-connected insiders who would have no love for Rodriguez, no mixed feelings if he failed, and no hesitation about spreading their views on the matter."

 

It's starting to feel like I got the only copy of the book where that page didn't accidentally get omitted, that's not specifically pointed at the author of the post I'm replying to, but this most of this thread and Brian's post all seem to follow this "Lloyd was upset first and for no apparent reason" idea, when you got the Detroit News reporting a very supportive Lloyd Carr on Dec. 17th and this mass firing being handled wrong on Dec. 20th.

lexus larry

October 27th, 2011 at 1:06 PM ^

Actually, don't have the book yet.

Kinda interesting...dunno where the MGoLawyas were when RR was doing the "interviews" but geez...(this is only my conjecture) but c'mon!  Are former Michigan assistant coaches and coordinators a bunch of emo/sensitive children? 

They couldn't read RR's staff bios and figure out who'd be coming for sure?  And they had a years salary coming to them, regardless!!!

(More conjecture/speculation)  And you come into town to be the new coach, and find out the outgoing staff/HC told the players it was OK to bail on you and your program...how do you respond?  Do you sit there and say they were within their rights to do so?  Or do you think the same thought as that last quoted sentence you posted?

Admittedly, you can see for yourself on this blog, there was very little love lost for those old boy network coaches, from those who want Michigan football to excel, to be the best on the field, every game, every year.  Some of the cronies on LC's staff left MUCH to be desired, as many of them are in either equal or lower positions of responsibility than they were here in 2006-7.

Gulo Blue

October 27th, 2011 at 1:23 PM ^

I think you'd have to be there to have any clue if Carr's assistant were being too sensitive, but the fact that they hung around to be interviewed, to me, indicates they weren't anti-RR until after the interview and the way they were treated as they left (which wasn't all RR's fault, it's not just the interview, it's also how they were treated with their benefits and how they were asked to clear their offices out which has a lot to do with Bill Martin.)

lexus larry

October 27th, 2011 at 1:36 PM ^

Interesting points about clearing their offices out, bennies being yoinked, etc.

Strictly on the AD, not the new HC.

But still, being gifted a full year salary is a nice going away present, and I maintain, it shouldn't have come as a surprise to any assistant or coordinator that their days in AA were numbered once LC "retired."  (Recall that quote by Bear Bryant, relayed by Bo(?) about how he couldn't retire, for his loyalty to his assistants was such a concern as to their well-being afterwards...)

Man, that brooming out...definitely some antagonism between BM and LC, huh?  Someone else posted that RR had no idea of the political gamesmanship he was walking into...WOW!  Truer words, man.  To be the "patsy" and once he says, "nah, not interested," BM was ready to knock some teeth out and make sure LC knew who was the Big Man in the AD.  Whew!

Gulo Blue

October 27th, 2011 at 1:28 PM ^

When it comes to Carr's letting the players go, I'm not at all surprised and I don't even think he chose poorly.  I think there's a fair debate as to why Carr thought it would be better for some of his players if they left, but once he made that decision, he had to choose between his players and Michigan, and I don't ever expect a Michigan coach to try to gain some kind of benefit for Michigan by doing something that he thinks is bad for his players.

YaBoyBlue

October 26th, 2011 at 5:46 PM ^

I read this thread shortly after it was posted and just came back now to read the comments. All I is B O O M goes the dynamite. And in my humble opinion, if Mallet would've stayed, even if just for a year, we would have still made a bowl game that year, and he would've still made it to the NFL. He may have still been a jerk, but he was a more heady and accurate than our other options. No disrespect to Threet or The Human White Flag, but Mallet was more talented than both of them combined. He would've done at least as good as Tate and wouldn't have been so painful to watch. imho

El Demonio

October 26th, 2011 at 5:49 PM ^

I think one of the most telling moments of the book comes after Carr, Martin, and Rodriguez have lunch and Rodriguez has the chance to ask Carr about the lack of support - to which Carr had no response.  Soon after, when interviewed, Carr offers his much-too-late support for Rodriguez.  I can only speculate that Carr felt guilty and realized that he was not doing his duty to the University.

 

If we can assume that this is true (about my speculation that Carr felt guilty it), then maybe even Carr recognized that RR was getting the raw end of the deal.

Furthermore, the Ron English rumors (about the trash talking and the recruiting nonsense) _ I pin equally on Ron and Carr.  If Carr had gotten wind of that, he should have quashed it immediately.

 

JMK

October 26th, 2011 at 6:04 PM ^

Brian, you have now referenced this twice (the first time in a column about Crisler!):  "the president of the university will stab him if he hires Ferentz."  Can you (or someone else) please explain.  I thought MSC loved KF.  I'm buying this book Friday, but I need to know what this means now!

03 Blue 07

October 26th, 2011 at 8:33 PM ^

Wait for the book, but put bluntly: If she loved KF, he'd be our coach. She was the one who said no dice on Ferentz. She executed her veto power. They don't say why. I have some ideas, though, relating to a lot of stuff off-the-field that went down at Iowa over the years (one that comes to mind involved football players accused of sexually assaulting a female athlete and the way Ferentz played a role in the administration's response, but that my have come after MSC left...though I'm sure she still has plenty of sources at Iowa; also other stuff such as his kid living in section 8 housing or something like that, and general misbehavior/legal problems by players...a lot of which isn't made a big deal of nationally, or to us, because it's Iowa). Point is, for whatever reason, she was not going to allow Ferentz to be the coach.

JBE

October 26th, 2011 at 6:26 PM ^

I don't understand what's going on here.  This book is not definitive truth.  It is merely one person's (plus an occasional source's) perspective of what happened.  Jeebus, Michigan fans.  

gremlin

October 26th, 2011 at 6:26 PM ^

If RR found success at the University of Michigan would you all stop bashing Lloyd?  Seriously, all of the Lloyd bashers can go fuck themselves.

 

Why did RR not focus on recruiting our home state, and much of the midwest?  Thanks for giving MSU a head start.

 

Why did we receive the first sanctions ever for our football program under RR?  He was the head fucking coach.  He takes the blame.  Hire people that do the job fucking right.  No fucking excuses.

 

Why did the defense blow massive cock, and why was Mattison easily able to improve it?  Because the roster was young?  Because RR tried to blame Shafer when he in fact blows cock at understanding defense.  When he in fact can't hire a defensive coordinator to save his life.

 

Why are there a multitude of examples of head coaches who have had more success in 3 years with less talent than RR had at Michigan?  Because he didn't do a fucking good job.

 

Lloyd Carr did a good job.  Of course you allow the players to opt out if they want to.  When you recruit a player, you promise said player that you will be there the entirety of said players career.  If you leave before then, you do the honorable thing and allow said player to leave if the incoming coach RR doesn't recruit him to stay.

 

3-9;5-7;7-6 is way below Michigan standards.  It's an absolute terrible fucking record.  It falls on the head fucking coach.  Run some more spread with Threet you stupid fuck.

 

So keep bitching about Lloyd Carr you fucking little pricks.  You obviously don't know what Michigan was at one time, and is starting to become again.  Something Lloyd Carr helped build, and something RR had a hand in attempting to destroy.

 

Clowns.

BraveWolverine730

October 26th, 2011 at 6:54 PM ^

Ahh I love the smell of Strawmen in the morning.  No one here is saying that Llyod Carr is the reason we went 15-22.  No one here is saying that 15-22 isn't a terrible record.  Just because  Lloyd Carr was a coach here doesn't mean he is above reproach. RR doesn't(and absolutely shouldn't) hire the compliance people. He does take the ultimate responsibility for that as head coach, but considering that an important reason he should be fired is wrong.  RR absolutely failed here, but he did not "attmept to destroy" Michigan.  He did the best he could, but made a crap ton of mistakes in an extremely toxic environment with a less than ideal margin for error.  Also, try dropping more f-bombs in your post at anyone who disagrees with you, it makes your point much more cogent. 

BRCE

October 26th, 2011 at 6:59 PM ^

Two "blows massive cocks" and I lost count of the poorly placed f-bombs. Is that your voice on the tourettes guy soundboard, dude?

Seriously, if it wasn't for guys like this we would never have to hear the term "Wal-Mart Wolverine." What a redneck...

 

JeffB

October 26th, 2011 at 7:55 PM ^

<br>
<br>"of course you let the players opt out...you do the honorable thing and allow said player to leave"? Before they even talk to the new coach? Especially when you are the guy who recommended the new coach? Like hell you do. Only if you think you're bigger than the program, bigger than the team.
<br>
<br>As stated by another poster, the head coach does not hire compliance people, for obvious conflict of interest reasons. Yeah, the head coach takes the blame, by there's a reason none of the compliance people involved with the sanctions are with the program, either - they failed at their jobs.
<br>
<br>How many of those "coaches with three years of success with less talent" had their predecessor around, and backstabbing them every step of the way - I'd bet none.
<br>
<br>Look, no one is saying that RichRod is without fault here. However, we can also recognize that the failure was not his alone, it was the whole program's.
<br>
<br>As assistant AD, Lloyd was part of that failure. As the previous head coach, he had a large role in who was on the field in 2008 (especially since he told guys to leave). And, since Carr was the guy who recommended RichRod for the job, and his recommendation was followed, it partially falls on him for not recommending a better coach, a better fit, or not developing a coaching tree where someone was ready for the job when it came open.
<br>
<br>JeffB

mtzlblk

October 28th, 2011 at 2:27 PM ^

Aaaaah yes, and here we have typified the uninformed, spittle-flecked arguments of those that don't/can't get it that plagued the RR era from the start. Here you see a simple-minded 'fan' that ate up every last bit of misinformation fed to them and employed zero critical thinking skills beyond deducing that the W number was smaller than the L number. To find out why, they then scanned the headlines over at the 'Free to Print Anything You Want Press' and arrived at the conclusion that all of this was in the control of the evil RR and then begins to puke and mewl loudly about how simple it all is, W vs. L. I applaud your brutish simplicity in being able to filter so readily and heavily, as well as your ability to see things so clearly, life must indeed be easy for you with all that black and white. Your eloquence clearly sets you a apart as an intellectual, while your prose similarly indicates you are of noble birth and elevated stature. Well met gentleman! You are a credit to the M fanbase and I would wish that more of your ilk would take up the pen that your reasoned and rational opinions would be more widespread.

BRCE

October 26th, 2011 at 6:42 PM ^

I don't always agree with Brian but when it comes to behind-the-scenes stories, I think he is much more than a fan. People disputing his points need to realize that people tell him things and even though Brian has never posted all the scandolous rumors he's been fed on Carr because he's not quite sure, he's heard enough to get a feel for what's out there and has created a tag called "lloyd carr illumanti."

Brian broke both the story of Carr's retirement date and Bill Martin's sailboat trip. Much more than virtually every commenter here, he's in the loop. And I think it's very telling that he's disgusted with Carr.