Three And Out: The Questioning Comment Count

Brian

rich-rodriguez-whatjohn-u-bacon

So Rich Rodriguez did a deeply bizarre thing. Captain Renault, yes, yes. GERG, yes. 3-3-5 addiction, yes. Groban, yes. Right. I'll start again.

Amongst the many deeply bizarre things that Rich Rodriguez did was allowing John Bacon virtually unfettered access to his program for three years. He didn't know it at the time, but these happened to be the only three years of his program.

I received an advanced copy of the book that resulted and… man. If you are a Michigan fan the result is a must read. Hate Rodriguez, love Rodriguez, have deeply conflicted relationship with Carr, love Carr—doesn't matter. This is not another book where ex-jocks tell jovial stories about the slightly dangerous things that happened to them.

This is a book that immediately makes everyone in it mad as hell except the guy who did Never Forget. This is close to literally true.  Bacon's been banished to the Drew Sharp area of the press box, Michael Rosenberg is livid, Rodriguez himself is apparently hugely pissed. And while I can't confirm this like the above, I can't help but think that Lloyd Carr hates this book more than anything he's ever hated.

I know Bacon a bit and have pressed upon him an opportunity for MGoBlog: to badger him with questions. I would like to crowdsource these questions because these are important. I want to cover all the bases, ask the things clarify a lot of the debates fans have argued endlessly about for the last four years.

So: what would you ask someone who spent the last three years embedded in Operation Spread Ann Arbor? I'll cull the best ones and pose them to Bacon. He'll answer, and maybe we'll get some clarity.

Before you get to asking, some context:

  • While the book documents Rodriguez's increasingly desperate behavior it does seem to have a pro-RR editorial POV. Hard questions will be about the things he did wrong.
  • It does not really address the DC fiascoes, which I'll already be asking about.
  • The Free Press stuff comes in for a thorough treatment; if you want to be pointed the Qs there should be Devil's Advocate type things.
  • It's clear Bacon could not get anything solid on the Great Stapleton/English Conspiracy Theory, though he tried. Wouldn't bother there.
  • The Rodriguez coaching search went down essentially like we expected: Ferentz, panic, Les Miles boat incident, panic, Schiano, panic, Rodriguez.
  • I'm not going to ask a guy who spent three years of his life with unprecedented access to a major college football program why he decided to write a book about it. Figure it out yourself.

Along with a severe grilling of Bacon, we'll be running an excerpt from the book around the time of its publication, which is scheduled for October 25th.

Comments

SirJack

September 20th, 2011 at 4:32 PM ^

I don't understand why so many people are convinced Carr sought to undermine Rodriguez. The default position on the blog was to stand up for Rodriguez at all costs, and if that meant trashing former players, former coaches, the Admissions department, and the university itself, then so be it.

BRCE

September 20th, 2011 at 6:37 PM ^

A former player was never trashed without them making an ass of themself first. For some of these guys to try to kick Michigan's coach while he was down was despicable.

If people went overboard defending Rodriguez, it was only out of protective instinct since they could see how unholy and relentless the attack on him was.

As for turning on some people associated with the program if warranted, hey, if you're a douche, you're a douche. I value my status as a human more than my status as a Michigan fan.

OysterMonkey

September 20th, 2011 at 8:47 PM ^

This is lazy bullshit. You don't offer arguments. You ponitificate as if you're enlightened, somehow superior to the benighted masses, because you're unencumbered by crass concerns like "winning" and "not being terrible in every facet of football except quarterback play." Of course a secret cabal was out to get Rodriguez. What else could explain his failure? Surely we didn't overrate him as a coach, right? After all, he had dominated the Big East after Virginia Tech and Miami went to the ACC.

BRCE

September 20th, 2011 at 11:38 PM ^

I never once alluded to a "secret cabal." Those are the words that old slob M-Wolverine put in my mouth.

I was restating my stance before that former Michigan football players should not be treated with like they are war heroes and no matter who they are, if they use their position as a public figure to undermine a struggling regime at their alma mater, they are not cool in my book and anyone who agrees has every right to make that known (some here react violently when these players are degraded, treating them as beyond reproach).

maizenbluenc

September 20th, 2011 at 12:20 PM ^

What did Rick Leach think he was onto with all the suspicion of insider undermining?

Why did the University wait so long to resolve the WVU buyout dispute, and let the mud continue to sling?

AMazinBlue

September 20th, 2011 at 12:21 PM ^

Did Rodriguez ever really get Michigan?  Did he ever fully grasp how big the job he was given was?   He always seemed like a fish out of water and that he had to keep telling everyone that he "got it," when it was painfully obvious that he didn't.

 

The other thing I heard from a source close to the situation was that RR wanted to and kept the Bo-era players at a distance.  RR wanted to separate himself from the history.  I'd like to Bacon to address that as well.

I know I will read the book and I also know I will be pounding my fists on the table as I do.

M-Wolverine

September 20th, 2011 at 1:04 PM ^

And actively pushing it away. The latter is an act of ignorance, but as much to blame on those around him (AD, etc.) for not helping to educate him. The latter is a willful act of hubris, which lays at your own feet if it doesn't work out.  For every "so and so in undermining Rich" rumor, there were an equal amount of "Rich is trashing how things were done here bofore behind closed doors" one.  It seems Bacon concentrated on the former, but perhaps, if Rich isn't happy, he did some of the latter too (though it sounds more like it's because of the "acts of desperation" thing). So Bacon should be asked, did he get the impression from those around the program that Rich was outright ignoring the past, and trashing what was done before him?  Or was it something just completely new to him, and Martin did a horrible job meshing him into the program?  Because for all the "no support" talk, I've heard a lot saying that Rich didn't exactly endear himself to people to get any support.

M-Wolverine

September 20th, 2011 at 3:50 PM ^

Than the idle trash you believe that a secret cabal led by Lloyd was out to send the Rich Rod era crashing and burning in flames.  There was the other Michigan blog that mentioned how they heard  Rich was dimissive of the program, and what came before. And then numerous times he was less than diplomatic about what he was left with ("not after I found out what I had here").  And then an equivalent amount of scuttlebutt that at Schembechler he wasn't exactly kind to Carr, or the program, and that he rubbed a lot of people who had been around a lot longer than him the wrong way.  Which is just that - rumor.

But since we're so interested in unfound rumors about how the whole world was out to get Rich Rod, it'd be nice to get some questions on how maybe, just maybe, Rich Rod didn't do a lot to endear himself and earn that support.  But you're just as stuck in your view that you'll believe what you want no matter what's said as you accuse others of.

BRCE

September 20th, 2011 at 6:43 PM ^

If that last statement is not the pot calling the kettle black, I don't know what is.

Enjoy the book. Dollars to doughnuts the findings in it will be closer to my perspective on the situation than yours. I honestly cannot wait to rub it in the face of people like you, who have put themselves in a tough position in the debate as you are prone to blind idolatry.

 

M-Wolverine

September 21st, 2011 at 12:11 AM ^

Because you take glory in our program in a bad light, and seem to enjoy failure and negativity.  If that's your pleasure in life, I feel sorry for you. To lead such a miserable existence must be tough.  You're not even aware of the difference between want equal time for rumor-mongering questions, if they're going to occur, versus your one sided screed. I never said anything shouldn't be asked (unlike you, who dismiss things), just that there's fair reason to ask both sides.

And that's all the book is. A side. One with a personal viewpoint, one by someone acknowledging he was pro-Rich Rod, and presenting a viewpoint that Brian reports left out the most negative portion of his tenure. He may have some insights, but Brian also stated he had no real evidence for the tinfoil brigade.  This isn't a congressional investigation, it's an opinion piece by someone invested in his view.  For all we know, it has as many "facts" as Rosenberg (which, he wrote it, and had sources, so it MUST be true! Or not)  

So rub all you want. I'm sure you're used to that.  Because you can't win....because you don't actually debate anything on it's merits, because you see no merits in anything. You just seek to tear them down.  And that doesn't make me mad at you; just pity for you.

MGoShtoink

September 20th, 2011 at 12:28 PM ^

internal AD conversations that occured before, during and after the NCAA violations hearings?

Did anyone in the AD office have a direct conversation with Rosenberg or anyone from the Free Press before, during and after the NCAA hearings, and any insight into what was said?

Section 1

September 20th, 2011 at 1:46 PM ^

Your post doesn't quite make sense.

Did you mean to ask, "Did anyone in the Athletic Department have any direct conversation before the Freep published the August 30, 2009 front-page story?"

Because by the time the NCAA hearing rolled around, Bill Martin had retired, David Brandon had been hired, the Notice of Allegations had been published, Michigan's (and Rodriguez's) formal answers had been filed, and the whole cheesy overblown story was by then known to most everybody.

Now, back to the question as I posed it -- Did Rosenberg or Snyder talk to the Michigan Athletic Department before finalizing and publishing their story? 

The answer: Yes, they did.  But it was the freaking FRIDAY AFTERNOON BEFORE THE FREEP WENT ONLINE WITH THE STORY THAT APPEARED IN THE SUNDAY MORNING PAPER ON THE FRONT PAGE.  The Friday meeting was with Bruce Madej, who had the horrifically unevnviable task of sitting and listening to Rosenberg say what they proposed to publish, followed by, We'd like to have the University's response later today or tomorrow morning at the latest so we can put in the story... 

It is hard to say what was the most savagely treacherous act on the part of Rosenberg.  I'd nominate this one.  But it would have to beat out the sandbagging interviews of the two freshmen in the '09 Media Day debacle.  "Treason" is a strong word, and despite the fact that Rosenberg and Snyder are both alumni, as reporters they have no particular duty of "loyalty" to Michigan.  I am personally comfortable with them being "traitors," to the extent that either one of them proclaims any further affinity to the University of Michigan.  But more than issues of "treason" or "loyalty," what they are both guilty of is trying to conceal their story up until their springing it on the football program on the even of the '09 season, that they basically did a shitty job of actual reporting on what CARA time really is. 

MGoShtoink

September 20th, 2011 at 1:57 PM ^

is probably a better question, but I also want to know if anyone from the AD spoke with the Freep after the article was published and after the NCAA got involved and how those conversations went.  I'm not talking about on the record, I'm talking about someone calling Rosenberg and the editor saying WTF, you know this is all a bunch of BS, what is the point of this, etc...

The Athletic Department was fairly mum during and after the whole fiasco.  I am just curious what people were really saying behind closed doors and off the record.

Section 1

September 20th, 2011 at 2:32 PM ^

He told me, in front of a large group of people, that he went through the story with a yellow highlighter, marking all of the false and questionable points.  And when he was done, it was more yellow than not.

And let's remember this, about the Free Press -- the Publisher, Paul Anger, wrote his own editorial a week later, defending Rosenberg and Snyder, and saying that the Free Press would continue to publish all sides of the story.  But it didn't; it never published one single op-ed which questioned Rosenberg.  Most astonishingly, the paper never even acknowledged the criticism of Rosenberg from other people in the press, nevermind the blogosphere.  The prime example of course is the nationally-known magazine editorial writer, Jon Chait.  Who called Rosenberg's fishing expedition "journalistic malpractice."

It has all along been a massive disappointment, the way that so much of Detroit's local media (newspapers, television and radio all alike) just laid down on the journalistic-malpractice counter-story.

Needs

September 20th, 2011 at 3:17 PM ^

More specifically, Chait pointed to the decision to allow Rosenberg, an editorial writer/columnist who had already trashed Rich Rod in print over his language at practice (which was within his duties as a columnist) to moonlight as an investigative reporter as "journalistic malpractice" of breaking down the wall that is supposed to exist between news and op-ed.

My guess at how this transpired basically assumes that someone who didn't like RR leaked Rosenberg the CARA audit. Rosenberg, fearing that the freep was going the way of other papers in the internet era (and this was around the time that the freep reduced their publishing schedule and the Ann Arbor News folded) saw the story as his opportunity to make a national name for himself. He brought Snyder on board so it wouldn't look like a hatchet job, and the publisher went along with Rosenberg's byline because Rosenberg had the inside sources. They wrote the story as sensationally as possible, contacting some former players that Rosenberg knew disliked RR and either obscuring or failing to understand how the NCAA counted hours. And it worked out for Rosenberg, who now contributes to SI regularly.

turd ferguson

September 20th, 2011 at 12:30 PM ^

Apologies if someone already raised this, but I didn't see it when I skimmed.
<br>I'd like to know the real feelings that our football program / AD have for our three chief rivals (OSU, MSU, ND). RR spoke positively about OSU, but I think he implied that there were competitors who were sleazy on the recruiting trail. Who was that?

imafreak1

September 20th, 2011 at 12:31 PM ^

I would be interested in what went down in firing day. Why did Brandon and RichRod meet for so daggone long?

I'd also be interested in what RichRod has learned from all this. Does he acknowledge mistakes? What are they? What would he do different next time?

colin

September 20th, 2011 at 12:38 PM ^

Why does JB think he was given this kind of access in the first place?  Did they meet once and really hit it off?  What's the background between the two?

Considering the 3 wins from the first season, he must have felt under pressure almost instantly, right?  It becomes obvious right quick when you have 3 win talent.  Just seems like RR was under a barrage of threats from day one to think giving this kind of access was a good plan.  If you think you can count on good press or fair treatment, no need to give JB what he got, right?



 

yeahrice

September 20th, 2011 at 12:43 PM ^

Did you feel that RR ran the spread with Threet/Sheridan thinking it would give him a better chance to win or was he trying to implement his offense without care/concern for his first season's record? 

Wrt recruiting, what did you hear about other schools when they recruited against UM? 

What could RR have done to "get it"?

What was Carr's reaction to RR hiring and why didn't he support RR more?

When did you think it was over for RR?

 

Brick

September 20th, 2011 at 12:45 PM ^

I would ask at what point they realized Tate was not going to work out and how they reacted.  I don't mean physical reaction but in relation to how they handled the situation with Tate and the transition to a new starting QB and to some degree altering their offensive scheme.

MechEng97

September 20th, 2011 at 12:48 PM ^

 

No idea why people are saying Bacon is an idiot...everyone love conspiracies.  He seems to be an intelligent guy who is more of a historian and tells it like it is.  

I hope this book isn't like ripping a band-aid off in the middle of the healing process.  It feels like it could be.  I already ordered my copy, but am apprehensive about what I may find...sometimes things are better left unknown as it's "in the past"..

Anyway, I hope to gain some insight into:

  • How RRod felt and was treated by Carr and the "Michigan Men".  
  • The defense and how he was hoping it would work out / how much he influenced it rather than let the DC just do his thing
  • Recruiting standards and how desperate he became
  • How bad the talent was when he got here in his opinion
  • How the players stuck together (or not.)
  • Did he have support from Brandon or did it appear as he was done no matter what.
  • Was Lloyd supportive
  • Did he believe it was on the path to improvement

Seattle Maize

September 20th, 2011 at 1:55 PM ^

Re support from Brandon.  I think that if Brandon always wanted to get rid of the guy then he probably would have right after the OSU game.  The only reasonable explanation of why he would wait till Jan if he had already made up his mind was if he had an under the table agreement with Harbaugh which it appears that he didnt. 

arod

September 20th, 2011 at 12:49 PM ^

Why the hell couldn't the defense stay within 10 yards of an opposing receiver?

 

Why the hell couldn't anyone make a goddamn field goal?

 

 

I don't think any of this insider who did what to support whom really amounts to a drop of piss.  The answers to the two questions above tell you everything you need to know about why RR's tenure was brief.

TorontoBlue

September 20th, 2011 at 12:52 PM ^

I'd be curious about any inside info relative to that hearing in Seattle - what can Bacon tell us about the offical part of it (questions & answers / hearing itself) and also the UM politics / interpersonal byplay between the UM contingent.

GO BLUE!

Gulo Blue

September 20th, 2011 at 1:02 PM ^

...but RR said when he was 1st hired that 5 different people sent him copies of Bo's Lasting Lessons (also by Bacon).  I've always wondered if he ever read it.

 

edit:  Wow.  I posted this without having seen the previous comment.  The similarity of the titles are purely coincidental.

bdsisme

September 20th, 2011 at 1:02 PM ^

It's probably bad form for Bacon to comment on specific players, but I really want to hear what went down re: Tate Forcier.  The winged helmet, benched, pouting on the sideline, supposed drugs and partying, playing Devin ahead of him, etc.

Mr. Yost

September 20th, 2011 at 1:11 PM ^

I saw a question about Boren...sorry I didn't look into everyone's question.

 

But I'd like to know his thoughts on how Rich Rod handled the Ryan Mallett saga, and how it was in comparison to how Coach Hoke handled Denard.

...you could also toss Arrington, Manningham, etc. into the question, however I believe they were already gone.

johnvand

September 20th, 2011 at 1:16 PM ^

I'm sure (hope) it is covered in the book, but I'd love some cold hard facts that debunk the whole "Lack of family values" thing.

If anything, Rodriguez appeared to be more family oriented than we've ever seen from our Head Coach.

maizenbluenc

September 20th, 2011 at 2:08 PM ^

That Rodriguez is loyal to his family of coaches to the point that he couldn't bring himself to fire them, even when faced with being fired himself. It would be interesting to know if this perception (his loyalty to his staff led to his dismissal) is in any way true.

M-Dog

September 20th, 2011 at 1:36 PM ^

If this has not already been asked (sorry, I'm not able to read all 228 responses), what did he think RR's plan was if he would have gotten a 4th year?

 

4roses

September 20th, 2011 at 1:47 PM ^

1. How big a factor did lack of support from the "Michigan Community" (i.e. athletic dept. employees, university employees, alums, former players) play in the failure of Rich Rodriguez? 

2. How big a factor did Lloyd Carr play in the lack of support from the "Michigan Community"? Did he merely speak volumes with his silence or did he openly campaign against RR behind closed doors to the "Michigan Community" ?

909Dewey

September 20th, 2011 at 2:05 PM ^

5-During the last few Carr years, there was much speculation that he was on the way out soon - his announcement should not have been a surprise.  Yet the coaching seach seemed haphazard.  Did Martin have any kind of transition plan to speak of?  Was it executed during the coaching search?  Was there internal strife regarding the plan?  Does Dave Brandon have a transition plan now?

6-The relationship between RR and John Beilein, both coming from WVU and then at UM together, nver seemed anything but strained or even non-existant - what was that relationship really like?  Did Beilein ever "go to bat" for RR?

Seattle Maize

September 20th, 2011 at 1:49 PM ^

I would ask about whether or not RR was prepared to make a complete defensive staff overhaul (not just DC) at the end of 2010 and if that had anything to do with Dave Brandon's decision?  Probably not possible to ask this but I would also be interested to see a description of RRs practices vs Brady Hokes and whether or not there just wasnt an emphasis on D under RR?

AC1997

September 20th, 2011 at 2:24 PM ^

Here are some that I would like to understand better:

  • Lots of people have cited Demar Dorsey specifically, but I'd like to know in general how RR's recruiting strategy, success, and number of late defections were handled and discussed by the staff.  It seems they targeted a high number of players at specific positions while neglecting others and targeted more kids with borderline academic qualifications.  What DON'T we know about the recruiting practices of the staff?
  • Did Rodriguez ever seriously consider retaining any of Carr's staff besides Jackson?  Why did he handle it the way he did instead of allowing everyone to save face publicly? 
  • Why didn't ANYONE on the staff or in the administration tell RR about the #1 jersey situation?  (especially Fred Jackson)
  • What was the Pryor recruitment like from RR's point of view?
  • What three things does Bacon think were the biggest contributors to RR's downfall?
  • What three things does Bacon think RR would most like to do differently if he could go back in time?