Three And Out: The Questioning
So Rich Rodriguez did a deeply bizarre thing. Captain Renault, yes, yes. GERG, yes. 3-3-5 addiction, yes. Groban, yes. Right. I'll start again.
Amongst the many deeply bizarre things that Rich Rodriguez did was allowing John Bacon virtually unfettered access to his program for three years. He didn't know it at the time, but these happened to be the only three years of his program.
I received an advanced copy of the book that resulted and… man. If you are a Michigan fan the result is a must read. Hate Rodriguez, love Rodriguez, have deeply conflicted relationship with Carr, love Carr—doesn't matter. This is not another book where ex-jocks tell jovial stories about the slightly dangerous things that happened to them.
This is a book that immediately makes everyone in it mad as hell except the guy who did Never Forget. This is close to literally true. Bacon's been banished to the Drew Sharp area of the press box, Michael Rosenberg is livid, Rodriguez himself is apparently hugely pissed. And while I can't confirm this like the above, I can't help but think that Lloyd Carr hates this book more than anything he's ever hated.
I know Bacon a bit and have pressed upon him an opportunity for MGoBlog: to badger him with questions. I would like to crowdsource these questions because these are important. I want to cover all the bases, ask the things clarify a lot of the debates fans have argued endlessly about for the last four years.
So: what would you ask someone who spent the last three years embedded in Operation Spread Ann Arbor? I'll cull the best ones and pose them to Bacon. He'll answer, and maybe we'll get some clarity.
Before you get to asking, some context:
- While the book documents Rodriguez's increasingly desperate behavior it does seem to have a pro-RR editorial POV. Hard questions will be about the things he did wrong.
- It does not really address the DC fiascoes, which I'll already be asking about.
- The Free Press stuff comes in for a thorough treatment; if you want to be pointed the Qs there should be Devil's Advocate type things.
- It's clear Bacon could not get anything solid on the Great Stapleton/English Conspiracy Theory, though he tried. Wouldn't bother there.
- The Rodriguez coaching search went down essentially like we expected: Ferentz, panic, Les Miles boat incident, panic, Schiano, panic, Rodriguez.
- I'm not going to ask a guy who spent three years of his life with unprecedented access to a major college football program why he decided to write a book about it. Figure it out yourself.
Along with a severe grilling of Bacon, we'll be running an excerpt from the book around the time of its publication, which is scheduled for October 25th.
September 20th, 2011 at 11:29 AM ^
I think he meant for the staff, not for the head job.
And while I think Scott might have been a stretch, running with a spread QB (though Tebow did ok), I'm sure there were positions with coaches deserving of consideration. For sure on Defense, anyway. They couldn't have been any worse. And maybe that makes his transition a bit easier.
September 20th, 2011 at 12:26 PM ^
I think Loeffler is a fantastic qb coach, but he didn't have any experience with Rodriguez's offense and Rodriguez had a qb coach who had done great things with Pat White. I can see why Rodriguez went with his guy, but I do think Shafer could have adapted and done great things for Rodriguez and Denard.
September 20th, 2011 at 12:38 PM ^
And I don't think I worded it clearly on that. It made sense that Rich would want someone who's schooled running QBs, and Loeffler wasn't one of them. I was more saying that there were various positions on his staff that weren't so spread specific (maybe receivers on offense, but FOR SURE positions on defense), and even cases where he hired guys who weren't on his previous staff. If you're hiring an outside guy from Southern Mississippi or something, and not one of your own guys, wouldn't it make as much sense to keep some of the guys who were on the staff? It helps continuity, and probably offsets a lot of animosity. And maybe helps smooth things over going through stuff you're not used to in a new and very tradition rich environment. You have ONE guy (Jackson), and he's the outsider, and doesn't want to rock the boat and lose his job. You have a few, and they can nicely say...hey, this probably isn't going to go over so well; don't do it, or at least lets sell it better, like this. And frankly, as time as shown, whatever problems our defensive staff had under Carr, they weren't as horrific as Rich's guys. Just keeping the secondary coach alone might have made a big difference. But that can't happen when the guy who coaches the position is buddies with you and your wives.
Which is a separate question- how much undermining of the DCs were there because Rich was close with the WV guys he brought over, but not with the guys who were supposed to be running the defense? Is the Schafer "admit Gibson is horrible and I'll take all the blame" thing true?
September 20th, 2011 at 11:32 AM ^
but rather why the Carr assistants were not retained.
Loefler was obviously moving on as he was a pro-style qb coach.
Most new coaches ususally only retain one assistant or none from a previous regime. Just not that remarkable.
September 20th, 2011 at 8:14 PM ^
That's true when coaches are fired. When a coach steps down voluntarily, there is often more continuity.
September 20th, 2011 at 1:38 PM ^
That is the way coaching changes work. It's not at all uncommon to keep no members of the previous staff, let alone just one.
The only reason is was such a culture shock at Michigan was because it had dabbled in cronyism for years regarding the staff. At almost any other place, it would have been totally expected.
September 20th, 2011 at 11:11 AM ^
yes--how did it undermine the new coach, but also:
a) how much did RR just become an excuse/collateral for their continued jousting (i.e. was it sometimes not about him at all/for the most part)?
b) does the fact that everyone is making nice now and getting behind Hoke still obscure some lasting divisions between factions, factions likely tore- emerge if things go south once more?
c) what kind of picture of Brandon emerges from these hijinks--a guy who reluctantly pulled the trigger after long, careful consideration or someone only too happy to dump RR because he was not one of the old boys? Is he a hurrhurr frat boy or a crafty macher?
and (following c)
d) does the idea of being a "Michigan man" emerge as tortured shibboleth in need of burial or does Bacon make the case that there is something valuable in it, something RR just really didn't get?
September 20th, 2011 at 11:17 AM ^
Played nobody and when they did lost. He is a stupid coach and let Gerg call D. Hmmmmm we can't stop the Ohio u mascot, so I think I will stick with Gerg. Seriously! Stop people for the love of god. Don't even hint at even a book defending or being slightly pro Dick rodregis. This author has lost all credibility by even being slightly biased to Dick rod. I was a huge rich rod fan, but then he shit in my beer every Saturday.
September 20th, 2011 at 11:17 AM ^
Played nobody and when they did lost. He is a stupid coach and let Gerg call D. Hmmmmm we can't stop the Ohio u mascot, so I think I will stick with Gerg. Seriously! Stop people for the love of god. Don't even hint at even a book defending or being slightly pro Dick rodregis. This author has lost all credibility by even being slightly biased to Dick rod. I was a huge rich rod fan, but then he shit in my beer every Saturday.
September 20th, 2011 at 11:23 AM ^
And nobody gets away with doing that do your Milwaukee's Best, right?! FIRE DICK FRAUD
September 20th, 2011 at 11:41 AM ^
I think you are on the wrong site. Even the anti-RR faction here can spell and express thoughts logically. I believe you are looking for MLive.
September 20th, 2011 at 2:18 PM ^
Sorry professor, and I thought this was for entertainment. M live is for arrogant assholes, so move on. I was using swype and am traveling. Please forgive me Einstein. Your post blue (that was on purpose) me away and if I ever have to take the GMAT again I will use your amazing logic from your post to start the essay section. That should boost my score to 800. Whew, thank you Jesus!
September 20th, 2011 at 11:46 AM ^
You're not old enough to drink beer
September 20th, 2011 at 12:38 PM ^
that West Virginia lost whenever they played anybody...Oklahoma and Georgia strongly disagree.
September 20th, 2011 at 2:11 PM ^
But you have to admit it is easier to prepare for those teams when you don't play a schedule. Boise State
September 20th, 2011 at 2:11 PM ^
But you have to admit it is easier to prepare for those teams when you don't play a schedule. Boise State
September 20th, 2011 at 11:45 AM ^
Did Gardner actually have a back injury? (Although, I'm not sure we actually want the answer to this out there unless the answer is yes.)
What was Dave Brandon's real take on The Game during conference expansion?
What was the process like for hiring Hoke?
What is the deal with Mike Cox? He made it seem like he got a raw deal with RR, but still hasn't even seen the field with Hoke. That makes me think he just doesn't put in the time like other players.
Does he have insight as to RR's plans for his next job?
Did Dave Brandon come in expecting that this would be RR's last year and he'd be able to hire his guy after that?
Has he ever seen Mike Martin turn green?
September 20th, 2011 at 2:32 PM ^
Answer to your first question: does Santa Clause live on the North Pole?
September 20th, 2011 at 2:52 PM ^
So, Gardner is a myth to keep me buying things?
September 20th, 2011 at 11:11 AM ^
I'm interested in what kind of guy Rodriguez really is . . . Publically, Rodriguez always seemed like a likeable guy to me (and continues to be on his CBS program). But I'm interested in what he is like privately. I have to assume he is as cutthroat as any college football coach, but does he still come across as a genuine guy after spending 3 years inside the program?
September 20th, 2011 at 11:12 AM ^
I would need to read the book first.
I think I will read it and then email Bacon. He is a pretty accessible guy.
September 20th, 2011 at 11:27 AM ^
The Process (TM) must be followed to completion as outlined.
September 20th, 2011 at 11:12 AM ^
Clearly there must have been some moment where RR realized he couldn't win. That whatever steps he had needed to take were already missed opportunities. When did RR realize that he was doomed, and did he openly express any regrets?
Also, how did Bacon find time for both this and playing Rickety Cricket?
September 20th, 2011 at 11:12 AM ^
One the earliest criticisms of the hire was that RR was only using the Michigan job as a stepping stone to greater things. Was he? Did Bacon ever get the sense that RR did not want to coach at Michigan long term? If so, was that desire predetermined or did it come slowly, after he realized UM was not the right "fit" for him?
September 20th, 2011 at 12:27 PM ^
A stepping stone to greater things? Like what? This is Michigan, forgodssakes.
September 20th, 2011 at 11:14 AM ^
Not a question for Bacon, but has any other major program gone through anything like this? Every program has had it's depth and despair, but was there anything quite like what Michigan experienced? Where else has a guy come into a successful program with such high expecatations and then have everything implode so spectacularly? Where else has there been such a "new regime vs old regime" split and a hostile local media?
September 20th, 2011 at 11:33 AM ^
Callahan at Nebraska? Came in with expectations of "modernizing" a program that had very recently been in the championship game (less than 2 years before he was hired). He certainly created huge divides within the program and created an incredible backlash from "traditionalists." Not sure that he ever had the kind of fan support that Rich Rod had, even if the fanbase was incredibly polarized.
September 20th, 2011 at 12:48 PM ^
I thought about Callahan at Nebraska, but there was one really big difference. Callahan had no college track record to speak of. The Rodriguez era wasn't just notable for its conflicts, but for the fact that Rodriguez was very successful at his previous program and looked like arguably the best coach in football. But then he came to Michigan and everything blew up in his face.
i was bored the other day, so I went back and looked at some of Brian's old posts from 2007 and 2008. Rodriguez looked like a home run and a half. Every problem that we had at the time, he seemed to address. His teams had won two BCS games in the time frame that Michigan had been blown out of them. We replaced slow and fat with fast and lean. We replaced old and lethargic with young and hungry. We thought we were replacing nepotism with merit. We struggled to run the ball against good teams for Carr's last few years, so we brought in a guy whose offensive lines always played well and whose teams ran the ball for 300+ yards a game. We got a guy who had no chance of going to the pros. We gave the keys to the program to a guy who had succeeded with good scheming and who would now have good talent too. We thought we had a guy who could thrive despite the declining population of Michigan's recruiting base. We were thinking "national championship" with RichRod, but he failed spectacularly.
September 20th, 2011 at 11:45 AM ^
than what you seem to suggest.
Arguably, Michigan was the LAST big-time college football program to go through this kind of intramural turmoil. Michigan was blessed to have a sort of zero-conflict continuous managment team from about the time of Harry Kipke's departure in the 1930's until well into the 21st Century. Basically, it had happened to everybody else before us. It is really hard to think of any better examples of incredibly long continuity. (BYU? I dunno. I just can't think of anybody who comes close to the continuity at Michigan. The one break was Bump Elliott going upstairs to allow in Bo Schembechler. The ever-classy Bump made sure that was not a problem.)
September 20th, 2011 at 12:19 PM ^
Nebraska might be the best bet. Lots of program took a downturn after a legend left, probably more so than what Michigan did, which was have a legend leave, then have some continuity after, then take a plunge. And often at other places (like Oklahoma) it involved probation. I mean, after Bear left, Bama went downhill fast. But it's hard to follow an all time great. It might be a better comparison after they bounced back up again under Stallings, one of Bear's guys, won a title over a short HC career, then went back down again under Dubose. Great programs have had downturns. All at once like us? Pretty rare.
September 23rd, 2011 at 9:50 PM ^
Schnellenberger at Oklahoma
September 20th, 2011 at 11:14 AM ^
A few questions...
1. Did Shafer get completely undermined as it has been portrayed? There was a pretty clear turning point from competent defensive play to tire fire and it happened during the Purdue game in RR's first year. So I'd think anything on this would be pretty good to know considering it was gawd awful defense that ultimately did RR in here.
2. What was the dealio with the Demar Dorsey (no fly zone!) recruitment? Did RR ever get clearance from the admissions people? There are some people on the interwebs who float the idea that Dorsey was initially approved and then dirty tricks aimed to foil RR denied Dorsey entrace after he committed to Michigan.
3. Was Carr actively recruiting for MSU during RR's tenure? Reading the tea leaves it seems pretty obvious Carr hated Rodriguez. I've read where he told at least one recruit to select Sparty over Michigan. So anything on this would be awesome.
Thanks
September 20th, 2011 at 11:52 AM ^
Agreed on the Shafer portion. The potential undermining of Shafer (if it did happen) was the beginning of the end.
September 20th, 2011 at 12:26 PM ^
The defense never got better after the 2008 Purdue game
September 20th, 2011 at 11:14 AM ^
1. In Bacon's opinion, how involved was RR in the defense and the coordinators? Was he really as "this didn't work, try that" as some have reported, or was it just a clusterfuck filled with incompetence that he tried fix when it became glaring obvious that the current DC wasn't working?
2. How involved/exposed were the media to the day-to-day events with the team? Carr ran a VERY tight ship toward the end, but all I heard was how open RR was to the media by comparison. Did this openness exist, what type of access was given?
3. With all the attrition, was it due mostly to kids not working out or was there a clear "trend" of kids being run off? It doesn't make any sense to get rid of kids, but it would be interesting to see how so many flamed out spectacularly and left despite having ample opportunities to start (especially on defense).
4. What were Barwis' wolves named? When guys were not working hard enough, did he have a "release the Kraken"-type command or did they just appear?
September 20th, 2011 at 11:15 AM ^
yes please. would upvote but don't have enough mgopoints.
September 20th, 2011 at 11:15 AM ^
specifically why he largely abandoned our most productive recruiting area of Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and went into areas of the country where coaches and players didn't know us well. I can guess that he believed the Midwest was incapable of producing fast athletes, but other than that, what was behind this very poor strategic decision?
September 20th, 2011 at 11:37 AM ^
More generally, what was he like on the recruiting trail? How did he identify players and how did he attempt to sell them on Michigan?
September 20th, 2011 at 11:41 AM ^
Seriously? People are still flogging this thoroughly debunked horse?
September 20th, 2011 at 12:36 PM ^
Did you know that he ran Mallett off so that he could have Sheridan and Threet run his offense? Did you know that he ran Boren off because the offensive line was so deep? Did you know that the only QB he recruited was Terrelle Pryor? These memes are so ridiculous.
RR recruited for his system which was more specialized and thus he could not build his system by recruiting like MSU or a MAC school. Talent was not deep in Michigan and Ohio like it is this year.
While he did not necessarily kill it in MI, OH and PA, he certainly did not ignore them.
Devin Gardner - five star from Inkster; Will Campbell, 5 star from Cass Tech in addition to the Gordons and Hallowell, Justice Hayes; Justin Turner - number one player in OH, the Trotwood guys, Avery, Brown, Koger, Jake Ryan ;
PA - Cullen Christian comes to mind.
Had his seat not have been an inferno last year, in addition to Beyer, Morgan and the ususal Cass Tech smurf, RR may have landed Fisher and/or Zettel.
BTW, is Hoke ignoring PA? We dont have any commits from PA, so he must be.
RR had to go, but it was not because he ignored MI and OH.
I think Hoke is doing an amazing job with recruiting and I really like this staff, but he has also lucked into a very deep and talented pool of players in MI and OH. I expect that you will see Hoke look at players in other parts of the country when the talent is not so deep in MI and OH. Does not mean he is ignoring them.
September 20th, 2011 at 1:17 PM ^
It's also just straight up mathematically untrue. Rodriguez's non-2008 classes were comprised of a *higher* percentage of Midwestern kids than the average Lloyd class. As much as Rodriguez cooked his own goose, memes like this drive me crazy because they're such willfully wrong-headed groupthink.
September 20th, 2011 at 3:36 PM ^
I think a couple of different definitions of "ignore" are in play here.
One involves willingness and ability to recruit B1G-caliber players in the state. That's statistically verifiable buncum as you rightly point out.
The other involves outreach to schools and coaches who don't happen to have any 3-star and up recruits. There were reports of coaches disappointed that their players weren't getting the encouragement and camp invites that were traditional in the past and it might explain the "RR is ignoring MI" meme.
It's an open question, how much energy and resources should be spent on in-state kids that you know from day one are never going to be able to play at Michigan. But there are credible reports that RR's approach differed from the prior regime on this score.
September 20th, 2011 at 11:16 AM ^
Do you believe, knowing Bo the way you did and to a large degree how things where before RR and obviously during his tenure, that the last three years would have gone differently if Bo were still alive? Would Bo have publicly stuck up for him? Would his support and presence likely have led to greater success in recruiting, play, morale, former player support, etc to the point that maybe we still have RR as our coach today? Would Bo have supported him at all?
September 20th, 2011 at 11:48 AM ^
That's a great question. Not sure how anybody would be able to answer it, but it is nonetheless a great question for John.
September 20th, 2011 at 12:00 PM ^
To know the answer to this question.
September 20th, 2011 at 12:45 PM ^
Definately the most interesting question, to me, so far. As someone who grew up in the Bo era, I'd like to think that I know the answer, but I was just one of the many fans who never got to meet him. It would be great to hear what someone who knew Bo would say.
September 20th, 2011 at 11:26 AM ^
I'd like to hear Bacon's thoughts on the divergent cases of Rich Rodriguez and John Beilein.
Both were hired with the idea that they would be able to run their successful systems, but with Michigan-level athletes. All indications are that Beilein has been successful in this regard, while Rodriguez was not.
Did the Athletic Department handle the two coaches differently? Could Rodriguez have done better if there was less pressure on him to succeed right away? Is it just that Beilein had more time?
(Note: I'm not sure how closely Bacon follows the basketball program, given his excellent work on both the football team and the hockey team, so this may not be an appropriate line of questioning.)
September 20th, 2011 at 12:04 PM ^
i think that's just because basketball <<<< football at michigan. there was no revered program head, like Bo, etc.
September 20th, 2011 at 1:27 PM ^
That basketball and football were divergent at their starting points in where their program stood. Football was still a good-but-not-consistently-great program, allowing for many letdowns but having fairly good-to-great records after each year (despite the 0-2 debacle at the beginning of 2007, UM did recover enough to get to the Capital One Bowl and beat Florida in between their NC years.) So, football was a good program before RR was hired.
Basketball, on the other hand, with Amaker...not so much.
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