Home
we had subs it was crazy

Primary links

  • About
    • $upport (lol)
    • Ethics
    • FAQ
    • Privacy Policy
  • Contact
  • MGoStore
  • MGoBoard
    • MGoBoard FAQ
    • Ticket spreadsheet
    • Michigan bar locator
    • Moderator Action Sticky
  • Useful Stuff
    • Depth Chart By Class
    • Unofficial Two Deep
    • 2013 Offer Board
    • Crude Bug Tracking System
    • Third Down Stats
    • Diaries, Windows Live Writer, And You
    • Michigan Future Schedules
    • User-Curated HOF
    • 2013 Recruiting Board
    • Where To Eat In Ann Arbor
Home

Navigation

  • Forums
  • Recent posts

User login

  • Create new account
  • Request new password

MGoElsewhere

  • @MGoBlog (Brian)
  • @aceanbender
  • @TomVH (Tom)
  • RSS Feed
  • iPhone App
  • Facebook profile
  • MGoKindle Store
  • mgo.licio.us
  • Brian @ TSB [Archive]
  • Brian @ AOL [Archive]
  • Sour Salty Bitter Sweet

Michigan Blogs

  • Big House Blog
  • Burgeoning Wolverine Star
  • Genuinely Sarcastic
  • Go Blue Michigan Wolverine
  • Holdin' The Rope
  • MGoFootball
  • MVictors
  • Maize 'n' Blue Nation
  • Maize 'n' Brew
  • Maize And Go Blue
  • Michigan Hockey Net
  • The Blog That Yost Built
  • The Hoover Street Rag
  • The M Block
  • The M Zone
  • The Wolverine Blog
  • Touch The Banner
  • UMGoBlog
  • UMHoops
  • UMTailgate
  • Wolverine Liberation Army

M On The Net

  • mgovideo
  • MGoBlue.com
  • Mike DeSimone
  • Recruiting Planet
  • The Wolverine
  • Go Blue Wolverine
  • Winged Helmet
  • UMGoBlue.com
  • MaizeRage.org
  • Puckhead
  • The M Den
  • True Blue Fan Forum

Big Ten Blogs

  • Illinois
    • A Lion Eye
    • Hail To The Orange
    • Illinois Baseball Report
    • Illinois Loyalty
  • Indiana
    • Inside The Hall
    • The Crimson Quarry
  • Iowa
    • Black Heart, Gold Pants
    • Fight For Iowa
  • Michigan State
    • The Only Colors
  • Minnesota
    • GopherHole.com
    • The Daily Gopher
    • I'm In Love With A Fringe Bowl Team
    • TNABACG
  • Nebraska
    • Big Red Network
    • Corn Nation
    • Husker Mike's Blasphemy
    • Husker Gameday
  • Northwestern
    • Sippin' On Purple
    • Lake The Posts
  • Notre Dame
    • The House Rock Built
    • One Foot Down
  • Ohio State
    • Eleven Warriors
    • Buckeye Commentary
    • Men of the Scarlet and Gray
    • Our Honor Defend
    • The Buckeye Nine
  • Penn State
    • Slow States
    • Black Shoe Diaries
    • Happy Valley Hardball
    • Penn State Clips
    • Linebacker U
    • Nittany White Out
  • Purdue
    • Boiled Sports
    • Hammer and Rails
  • Wisconsin
    • Bruce Ciskie

Links of Note

  • Baseball
    • Big Ten Hardball
    • College Baseball Today
    • The Baseball Zealot
    • The College Baseball Blog
  • Basketball
    • Ken Pomeroy
    • Basketball Prospectus
    • Midmajority
  • College Hockey
    • Chris Heisenberg
    • College Hockey Stats
    • Inside College Hockey
    • Michigan College Hockey
    • Hockey's Future
    • Sioux Sports
    • USCHO
    • Western College Hockey
    • CCHA
      • LSSU Hockey
      • Bronco Hockey Blog
  • Football
    • Smart Football
    • Every Day Should Be Saturday
    • Doctor Saturday
    • CFB Stats
    • Harold Stassen
    • NCAA D-I Stats Page
    • The Wizard Of Odds
  • General
    • Sports Central
  • Local Interest
    • The Ann Arbor Chronicle
    • Arborwiki
    • Arbor Update
    • Teeter Talk
    • Vacuum
  • Teams Of The D
    • Lions
      • Pride of Detroit
      • Fire Millen
    • Pistons
      • Detroit Bad Boys
      • Need4Sheed
    • Tigers
      • Roar Of The Tigers
      • The Detroit Tigers Weblog
      • The Daily Fungo
    • Red Wings
      • On The Wings
      • Behind The Jersey
      • Winging It In Motown
    • Michigan Sports Forum

Archive

  • May 2013 (48)
  • April 2013 (94)
  • March 2013 (104)
  • February 2013 (81)
  • January 2013 (93)
  • December 2012 (74)
  • November 2012 (142)
  • October 2012 (143)
  • September 2012 (107)
  • August 2012 (103)
  •  
  • 1 of 11
  • ››

Get Yer Tickets

Football Display Case

NFL Watches

Follow your favorite team with localtv-satellite.com: Click Here.

Site Search

Diaries

  • New
  • Popular
  • Hot
  • Future Non-Conference Opponent Recruiting Watch
    EGD - 6 days ago
  • Way Too Late B1G Men's Basketball Scheduling Idea
    BeileinBuddy - 1 week ago
  • The Blockhams in "HOCKEY HANGOVER"
    Six Zero - 1 week ago
  • MGoAcceptance: Another MGoAnecdote
    LSAClassOf2000 - 1 week ago
  • OT - Kentucky Derby 2012
    k.o.k.Law - 2 weeks ago
  • ‹‹
  • 2 of 4
  • ››
more
  • Big Ten Recruiting Rankings 5-15-13
    Ace - 1,558 views
  • Future Non-Conference Opponent Recruiting Watch
    EGD - 796 views
  • More Milford Men Than Michigan Men: Comparing the 11-12 and 12-13 Hockey Teams
    MGoBlueline - 722 views
  • Using Rivals' Star Ratings To Look At Big Ten Football Recruiting: 2002-2013
    LSAClassOf2000 - 703 views
  • UMich NFL draft history, Part III
    blueheron - 672 views
  •  
  • 1 of 2
  • ››
more
  • Big Ten Recruiting Rankings 4-30-13
    Ace - 81 comments
  • Using Rivals' Star Ratings To Look At Big Ten Football Recruiting: 2002-2013
    LSAClassOf2000 - 19 comments
  • Future Non-Conference Opponent Recruiting Watch
    EGD - 15 comments
  • A Cynical Take on Why Expansion May be Dead for the Forseeable Future
    maizeonblueaction - 15 comments
  • LIGHT IT UP, AGAIN. WALLPAPER
    jonvalk - 12 comments
  •  
  • 1 of 2
  • ››
more

MGoBoard

  • New
  • Recent
  • Hot
  • Putting out the MGoBatsignal for.......the Michigan Stormtrooper!
    11 replies
  • OT - Brian Urlacher retires
    31 replies
  • OT - Official MGoBaby Thread (you got 'em, we want to see 'em)
    92 replies
  • Plaxico Burress is designing a men’s "luxury hosiery line"
    53 replies
  • BTN Tourney Baseball
    12 replies
  • OT: I love High School football
    38 replies
  • OT? Graduatin' Season. Who had the Worst Commencement Speaker?
    116 replies
  • 2015 QB Josh Rosen offered
    48 replies
  • Charles Woodson signs with Raiders
    44 replies
  • (Ole Miss) Hugh Freeze seems to be claiming BCS titles now
    46 replies
  • OT: NBA Draft Lottery
    76 replies
  • Complete 2013-14 M Hockey scheduled revealed
    28 replies
  • How much do you really hate ohio?
    140 replies
  • Our footballs are made in the USA but not in Ohio
    28 replies
  • Gardner updates the recovery of Fitz & Countess
    41 replies
  •  
  • 1 of 7
  • ››
  • OT - Official MGoBaby Thread (you got 'em, we want to see 'em)
    92 replies
  • OT - Brian Urlacher retires
    31 replies
  • OT: I love High School football
    38 replies
  • BTN Tourney Baseball
    12 replies
  • OT? Graduatin' Season. Who had the Worst Commencement Speaker?
    116 replies
  • Putting out the MGoBatsignal for.......the Michigan Stormtrooper!
    11 replies
  • 2015 QB Josh Rosen offered
    48 replies
  • How much do you really hate ohio?
    140 replies
  • Gardner updates the recovery of Fitz & Countess
    41 replies
  • Charles Woodson signs with Raiders
    44 replies
  • Plaxico Burress is designing a men’s "luxury hosiery line"
    53 replies
  • Pizza Pizza Bowl Fires Back!
    28 replies
  • Are TV sets the only reason for RU and MD?
    56 replies
  • Rivals 250 notes
    59 replies
  • (Ole Miss) Hugh Freeze seems to be claiming BCS titles now
    46 replies
  •  
  • 1 of 7
  • ››
  • OT: Red Wings vs Hawks Game 3 Open Thread
    203 replies
  • OT: Red Wings vs. Blackhawks Open Thread
    201 replies
  • How much do you really hate ohio?
    140 replies
  • UM 2014 Conf schedule football
    123 replies
  • Brandon on Uniformzzz
    119 replies
  • Speight and TomVH on Peppers
    116 replies
  • OT? Graduatin' Season. Who had the Worst Commencement Speaker?
    116 replies
  • OT: Red Wings @ Hawks Game 2 Open Thread
    114 replies
  • Prayers for Moore, Oklahoma
    112 replies
  • Alex Bars to Notre Dame
    96 replies
  • OT - Official MGoBaby Thread (you got 'em, we want to see 'em)
    91 replies
  • 5 star 2013 DT may not be enrolling at Notre Dame
    82 replies
  • ESPN 30 for 30 on the Bad Boys
    77 replies
  • OT: NBA Draft Lottery
    76 replies
  • Michigan Softball vs. Cal Open Thread
    75 replies
  •  
  • 1 of 7
  • ››

mgo.licio.us

  • Michigan's key returnee: Glenn Robinson

    needs moar usage

    0 comments
  • Former Arkansas QB Brandon Mitchell transferring to NC State

    so much for that

    0 comments
  • The B1G List: Ranking the State Fossils of the Big Ten

    This list is completely arbitrary and not a genuine analysis of the relative merits of state fossils.

    0 comments
  • Trey Burke turns to inner circle to prepare for NBA draft

    will be michigan's highest pick in a while

    2 comments
  • B1G assistant coach salaries on the rise

    money has to go somewhere

    0 comments
  • Tim Hardaway Jr. is motivated by his critics and doubters, and supremely confident in his ability

    I am only motivated by people who have no opinion about me.

    0 comments
  • Big Ten football procrastinates on parity-based scheduling, and nothing ever changes

    the just released schedules were a flat-out statement that the B10 doesn't believe SOS will matter in playoff selection

    1 comments
  • Michigan's Glenn Robinson III, Mitch McGary ranked inside top 20 on ESPN's 2014 draft board

    but I thought that draft was supposed to be incredibly loaded?

    1 comments
  • Tim Hardaway Jr. turning heads, viewed as a first-rounder by some teams, analyst says

    If you're gonna go please be in the first round.

    0 comments
  • Michigan-Ohio State once, Indiana-Purdue once? The Big Ten has to protect its hoops rivalries

    another delightful side effect of a 14 team conference

    0 comments
  • Beilein on transfers: All should have to sit a year, regardless of situation

    I disagree.

    0 comments
  • Julie Hermann takes over as Rutgers AD, won't try to spend like Michigan

    GOOD PLAN

    2 comments
  • Jay Harris says no to Michigan State, decides to become a rapper

    hahahahaha

    0 comments
  • The Difference Between A Good Fan And A Bad Fan

    thoughtful piece from Jacobi on middle finger lady

    3 comments
  • Michigan's rising recruiting profile exciting John Beilein, who remains true to his scouting form

    Their high school coaches and AAU coaches have probably a better appreciation of Michigan than maybe they had before," Beilein said. "It's a tough balance right now. Tim Hardaway and Trey Burke weren't really high-profile players, nor was Darius Morris, and all were high-profile players. "We're still looking at 'who is the best fit.' "

    0 comments
  •  
  • 1 of 2
  • ››
more

Three And Out Q&A: Part Three

  • View
  • Revisions
By Brian — October 21st, 2011 at 11:06 AM — 133 comments
Filed under:
  • fielding yost
  • john bacon
  • michigan man bler
  • three and out

image53

[ED: Parts one and two here. Book on sale Tuesday. Bacon will be giving his first local book talk and signing at Nicola’s Books in the Westgate Shopping Center on Friday night, October 28, 7 p.m.; other events can be found on his website’s appropriately-named Event page.

Cave people: Three and Out is a book about the Rodriguez era from John Bacon, who was given unprecedented access to the program by Rich Rodriguez because Rich Rodriguez does these sorts of things.]

6. WHAT'S NEXT?

“What books are you going to write about now that Michigan won't let you within a mile of any of their programs anymore? I mean, it's not easy to piss off everybody.”

Well, first: Despite the sacrifices I mentioned in the first installment – time, money, and possibly professional opportunities -- writing it was my decision, naturally, and I don’t regret it. Given my choices, trying to write an honest book is certainly more appealing to me than trying to keep everyone happy and produce a book I could never respect.

Plus, I had the chance to see a big-time program form the inside that no fan, and no reporter, has ever had—and probably never will again. If there was one great privilege that I hope every reader can share, it was getting to know these young man not as gladiators but as human beings, some of the best I’ve met. If you were proud of Michigan football before, I can tell you this: getting to know these guys can erase much of the cynicism we all feel for college football these days. They were, quite simply, the real thing.

None of that, unfortunately, solves the problem in the question. Mr. Brandon and Mr. Carr, through various means and channels, have made their contempt for the book (and its author) plain enough. I have no idea what’s going to happen with my various ties to Michigan, including my teaching arrangement, but I’d probably be foolish to count on anything.

It’s almost impossible to write anything interesting without at least some cooperation and access, and I might find those in short supply under the Brandon regime. I will likely have to go “off the reservation,” if you will, to pursue future projects. And perhaps it’s time.

But I also believe this book would cost me a lot more if I were writing about Kentucky basketball under Eddie Sutton or, say, Ohio State football (as a convenient example). Those schools and fans generally don’t want the truth, and will attack anyone who attempts to deliver it (witness Mr. Herbstreit’s forced move to Tennessee). Michigan football fans are very demanding—they expect a first-class program on and off the field—but they also want the truth, and they can handle it.

I feel the same way. After all, I learned how to do all the things I needed to write this book – researching, writing and thinking critically – from world-class professors at the University of Michigan. But the most important principle Michigan taught me was the central importance of pursuing the truth without fear, wherever it leads.

For those who say this book will hurt Michigan, I can only respond: not the Michigan I know.

7. Does the idea of being a "Michigan man" emerge as tortured shibboleth in need of burial or does Bacon make the case that there is something valuable in it, something RR just really didn't get?

This is why you have to love Michigan fans. What other school’s backers would inquire if their culture’s central concept emerges as a “tortured shibboleth in need of burial”? It was such fans, by the way, that made it easy for me to persuade our highbrow publisher Farrar, Straus & Giroux, that our readers would have no trouble getting through a 438-page book with no photos, nor digesting the word “crucible” in the subtitle. (Arthur Miller, after all, went to Michigan.)

The term “Michigan Man” probably goes back to the day men arrived at Michigan. But it’s taken more than a few twists and turns since.

Fielding Yost gave the term “Michigan Man” a boost when he started using it in his speeches. But the phrase really took off in 1989, of course, when Schembechler announced he was firing basketball coach Bill Frieder on the eve of the NCAA basketball tournament because Frieder had signed a secret deal to coach Arizona State the next season. This prompted Schembechler to bark: “A Michigan Man will coach Michigan!”

Pundits have wondered exactly what Bo meant, but I think it’s pretty simple: anybody coaching at Michigan better be completely committed to Michigan.

The phrase took on more weight four years ago, when a reporter asked brand-new head coach Rich Rodriguez if the Michigan coach had to be a Michigan Man. He joked, “Gosh, I hope not! They hired me!”

He was criticized for that—and not without some justification. The question was inevitable, and it exposed Rodriguez’s superficial knowledge of the program upon his arrival, and the athletic department’s failure to prepare its new coach for his mission.

From that point on, the phrase was used more often to beat somebody over the head—usually Rodriguez—than to underscore the values it’s supposed to represent, much the way extremists use “patriot” to castigate someone as un-American.

At the “Victors’ Rally” held in February 2010, Rodriguez wanted to show that he’d gotten the message. So, he closed his speech by saying, “I’m Rich Rodriguez, and I am a Michigan Man.” This time, he was criticized for being presumptuous.

Finally, with great humility, he told the crowd at his final speech at the Bust in December 2011, “I hope you realize, I truly want to be a Michigan Man.” But this time his critics said a true Michigan Man wouldn’t have to ask.

And thus, the silliness of the entire exercise had come full circle. The phrase had become so distorted, Michigan’s critics started using it as a mocking insult. Much like the word “classy,” it seemed, whoever uses it, probably isn’t.

Despite my temptation to chuck this overused and little understood phrase forever, I still think there’s something to it. Everyone knows the values it’s supposed to stand for: honor, sacrifice, pride in your team, and humility in yourself, all in one. But ultimately, to define it, I have to resort to Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart’s description of pornography: “I know it when I see it.”

Pardon the comparison, but when it comes to the phrase, “Michigan Man,” I know it when I see it, too. They might be Big Men on Campus, but they don’t act like it, in college or afterward. The men I’ve been lucky enough to get to know—many as good friends—really do put their team and their school before themselves, and become the kind of adults you want to be your employee, your colleague, your boss, your neighbor, your brother-in-law. Not because they played football for Michigan, but because they represent its values. And they really are different than the players I’ve met from other schools.

I can cite too many men who fit this description, and too many examples of their conduct, simply to dismiss it.

Here’s a small one: a few years ago the football alums of Ohio State and Michigan were invited to an event in Columbus. The Buckeyes showed up wearing everything from sport coats to sweatshirts and jeans. But the Michigan alums arrived wearing coats and ties. No one told them what to wear. Bo had already passed away. But they simply knew, reflexively, if you represent Michigan, this is how you do it.

A bigger example: a few years after graduating, Scott Smykowski, a former backup under Schembechler, discovered he needed a bone marrow transplant, but his health care wasn’t going to cover all his expenses. That’s all Schembechler needed to hear to rally Michigan Men from coast to coast. And that’s all they needed to hear to raise $150,000 in just a few weeks – even though most of them never played with Smykowski or even met him. That’s what being a Michigan Man meant to them.

When I speak at Michigan events, I often end with a quote from arguably the first important Michigan Man, Fielding Yost. Near the end of his life, they held a big banquet for him called, “A Toast to Yost from Coast to Coast,” which was broadcast nationwide by NBC. After all the speakers had paid tribute, he got up in his eponymous Fieldhouse and said, “My heart is so full at this moment, I fear I could say little else. But do let me reiterate the Spirit of Michigan. It is based on a deathless loyalty to Michigan and all her ways. An enthusiasm that makes it second nature for Michigan Men to spread the gospel of their university to the world’s distant outposts. And a conviction that nowhere, is there a better university, in any way, than this Michigan of ours.”

It gets me every time. But what really gets me is the response from the people in the audience. None of them ever met Fielding Yost. Most of them weren’t born when he passed away in 1946. Most of their parents weren’t, either. And yet, when they hear these words, they nod involuntarily, the words resonating with something deep inside them, and they are often glassy-eyed when I finish the quote.

If you could stand on that podium and look out on those faces, you would not have to wonder if the idea of the Michigan Man is for real.

Despite the best efforts to kill it, it is still very much alive.

  • Login or register to post comments

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
October 21st, 2011 at 1:03 PM | Thank you Mr. Bacon (Score:1)
NiMRODPi
Joined: 09/28/2011
MGoPoints: 60

For myself I'd like to thank Mr. Bacon for his honesty and for actually taking the time to tackle some of our questions. Michigan Football is ultimately going to be better for it.

As a fellow U of M History alumn, I am happy to hear you were not deterred in writing this book and I feel it echoes the piece of advice you gave our nervous 2007 History class about our futures:

"Do what you love, and the money will come to you."

Thanks again.

  • Login or register to post comments
October 21st, 2011 at 1:27 PM | Bacon Is Good For Me (Score:1)
J. Lichty
J. Lichty's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 1134

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PRGz9xSP_SA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

our package is our package, and it’s pretty big. - Greg Mattison, Bowl Practice Presser Tr. 12-13-11.

  • Login or register to post comments
October 21st, 2011 at 1:31 PM | Michigan Man... (Score:1)
outwest
outwest's picture
Joined: 09/24/2009
MGoPoints: 1147

It is refreshing to hear a different definition of what a Michigan Man is.  I think it definition has been twisted in so many ways over the last few years that the words seem to have lost a lot of their meaning.  From my understanding of Michigan, as someone that did not attend, it is truely a school that cares for each and every person that attends and takes care of those like Brock/ Elliot Mealer even when the school did not have to.

 

You can sum up this sport in two words, 'You never know.'

  • Login or register to post comments
October 21st, 2011 at 1:42 PM | Maybe a little OT... (Score:2 Normal)
pete-rock
Joined: 02/19/2009
MGoPoints: 59

But please stick with me here.  Kudos to John Bacon for writing this book and exploring/exposing the details of Michigan's last three years under RR.  I've read some excerpts and I definitely look forward to reading the whole thing.  Count me among those who was a huge RR supporter who reluctantly realized he would never be able to succeed and ultimately had to go, due to his own flaws as well as those of the program and the Michigan Family.

But there is a bigger cultural picture to look at here, too.  From the very beginning I saw RR's hire as a grand litmus test not simply for U-M football, but for the state of Michigan and the Midwest's approach to progress, innovation, and the kind of change needed to revitalize a stagnant region.  Everyone knows RR represented a radical departure from the U-M norm, but everyone also seems to forget about the slight but steady decline that was hurting the program for years prior to his hire; we wanted to restore the glory.  But all the institutional forces that had so much invested in the traditions of the program never embraced the change and gnawed away at RR's ability to succeed.  Yes, we wanted success, but we wanted success that validated our old vision instead of being the result of a new one.  And without getting way OT, parallels abound for the state and for the Midwest. 

That is in part why I wanted so badly for RR to succeed.  If U-M could embrace change in its football program, maybe the state could embrace the change needed to revitalize itself.  Now we have a book that will tell you how big a mistake that kind of thinking was.

Today, under Brady Hoke I firmly believe U-M is on the right path to reach excellence again.  And maybe Hoke's approach of melding traditions with new practices is the template for revitalizing the state, too.

If this doesn't fit here, please forgive me.

  • Login or register to post comments
October 21st, 2011 at 5:13 PM | Good Job (Score:1)
garyd99
Joined: 01/14/2010
MGoPoints: 8

Great post. You will sure be in the minoity.

Howlres

  • Login or register to post comments
October 21st, 2011 at 1:58 PM | Wish Brandon saw it our way. (Score:2)
RedKnedy
RedKnedy's picture
Joined: 02/04/2010
MGoPoints: 2259

Our embracing of both the good and the ugly of Bacon's narrative demonstrates the validity of our criticism of Rosenberg.  I guess Brandon sees that that point as something that would be lost in the court of public opinion. 

  • Login or register to post comments
October 21st, 2011 at 2:07 PM | It seems like his suggestion (Score:3 Normal)
chitownblue2
chitownblue2's picture
Joined: 06/03/2009
MGoPoints: 7062

It seems like his suggestion that his employment is imperiled by this may be irresponsible. Do Brandon and Carr control the retainment of an Am. Culture professor?

To suggest it is indicts far more than the football team, or the AD, or a few newspaper writers - it would mean that the AD controls our prestigious university.

wolverineliberationarmy.com/blog

  • Login or register to post comments
October 21st, 2011 at 2:16 PM | Well, no. (Score:1)
Section 1
Section 1's picture
Joined: 06/29/2009
MGoPoints: 14302

Because while John U. Bacon makes no effort to indict the full tenure of Mary Sue Coleman, the President of the University of Michigan is nevertheless the central player in one of the most damning parts of the book.  It is a very discrete thing, and it is pretty shocking.

 

 

  • Login or register to post comments
October 21st, 2011 at 2:30 PM | Well, yes. (Score:2)
chitownblue2
chitownblue2's picture
Joined: 06/03/2009
MGoPoints: 7062

He doesn't mention Mary Sue Coleman in this post about why his employment in danger. He mentions Brandon and Carr.

Thus, I restrict my comment to what he claims - not what you chose to add to it.

wolverineliberationarmy.com/blog

  • Login or register to post comments
October 21st, 2011 at 2:45 PM | It's about the book. (Score:1)
Section 1
Section 1's picture
Joined: 06/29/2009
MGoPoints: 14302

I don't think John expects to be fired, upon handwritten orders from Brandon or Carr. 

What he said in this particular session was essentially that they have made their displeasure known, through channels.  He's talking about the book, which does include the President of the University.  So read the book.  He's also (significantly) talking about access to the Athletic Department, over which Brandon does have solid control, and which might not be of any concern to most American Studies instructors but is a pretty big deal to John, whose expertise and study is in the history of sportswriting.

 

 

  • Login or register to post comments
October 21st, 2011 at 3:15 PM | Since I don't know the (Score:2)
chitownblue2
chitownblue2's picture
Joined: 06/03/2009
MGoPoints: 7062

Since I don't know the answer, I'll stipulate that your speculation is correct.

But then, if he's going to causally say that his employment is in some sort of jeapordy, why can't he say why?

What happened is a sort of allusion at a Machiavellian plot - he put in the same sentence as Carr, who has no formal position at the school at all.

wolverineliberationarmy.com/blog

  • Login or register to post comments
October 21st, 2011 at 5:55 PM | They can't "order" him to be fired (Score:1)
Eye of the Tiger
Eye of the Tiger's picture
Joined: 09/14/2009
MGoPoints: 1054

They could put pressure on the Dean of LSA to do so, but I'm not sure what the leverage would be.  In all likelihood, he'll be retained as a lecturer.

That said, he can kiss his access to the Athletic Department goodbye.  At least for a while.  Or until someone like Brady Hoke says "let him back in."  I'll be curious to see if Hoke comments on the book.  I doubt he will, as he's been uber careful in how he's treated the RR regime.  But Carr is also the guy who hired him back in the 90s.

When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them. Keep believing. -Bo

  • Login or register to post comments
October 21st, 2011 at 2:28 PM | Note that he's not a (Score:2)
Newk
Newk's picture
Joined: 09/10/2008
MGoPoints: 333

Note that he's not a professor and not technically protected by tenure or anything like that. In my understanding, lecturers are hired on a class-by-class basis (at least I was when I was one).

c/o '02

  • Login or register to post comments
October 21st, 2011 at 2:31 PM | If the AD and a retired (Score:2)
chitownblue2
chitownblue2's picture
Joined: 06/03/2009
MGoPoints: 7062

If the AD and a retired football coach could control the retaining of an academic lecturer unassociated with the Athletic Department, there would be a shit-storm of EPIC proportions from the entire faculty.

wolverineliberationarmy.com/blog

  • Login or register to post comments
October 21st, 2011 at 2:31 PM | Bacon isn't a professor, he's (Score:2)
Bando Calrissian
Bando Calrissian's picture
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 7917

Bacon isn't a professor, he's a lecturer.  He's basically hired by the semester for when he will be teaching his class.  The pay is crap, there's basically no job security, but those decisions have nothing to do with anything Dave Brandon could ever influence.  

And if it were, all Bacon would need to do is walk into Brandon's office, slap his Golden Apple award on the desk, and ask DB why he thinks a popular class with a waiting list a mile long is in any way infringing upon Athletics' ability to operate Division 1 sports programs.

  • Login or register to post comments
October 21st, 2011 at 2:35 PM | Regardless of the difference (Score:2)
chitownblue2
chitownblue2's picture
Joined: 06/03/2009
MGoPoints: 7062

Regardless of the difference between lecturer/professor:

If the AD were allowed to dictate hiring and firing decisions of academic staff based on their relative level of irritation with them, it would be a scandal of epic proportions - one that would leave the faculty, rightfully, in arms. It would say that the University is in service of the football team.

Thus, I doubt it.

wolverineliberationarmy.com/blog

  • Login or register to post comments
October 21st, 2011 at 2:33 PM | I didn't read it as an (Score:1)
bnoble
Joined: 01/02/2011
MGoPoints: 69

I didn't read it as an expectation that he'd be terminated, so much as the realization that as a non-tenured faculty member, your employment is always at the pleasure of the university.

That said, there are some things that the structure and governance of the academy makes difficult, and the President asking "Will no one rid me of this troublesome lecturer?" is one of them.

 
 

 

 

http://www.eecs.umich.edu/~bnoble/

 
 
  • Login or register to post comments
October 22nd, 2011 at 10:03 PM | I think I asked that question (Score:0 Redundant)
M-Wolverine
M-Wolverine's picture
Joined: 10/04/2009
MGoPoints: 38816

Tongue in cheek, so it's curious that of all the hard questions asked, this one was picked. I meant more books about the Athletic Department, appearances on the Big Ten network, and basically all the fame he's gotten coming from Michigan Athletics (he's not teaching courses at Michigan in Electrical Engineering). And even if he's not blackballed, I can't see any segment of the University going to him to write about them. So he may still teach (though they don't have to fire him...just cut his class), but the only reason anyone knows who he is is because of Michigan sports, and that's not going to likely be an avenue ever again.

"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk

  • Login or register to post comments
October 21st, 2011 at 2:18 PM | If you've ever listened to a (Score:1)
antidaily
antidaily's picture
Joined: 05/21/2009
MGoPoints: 1337

If you've ever listened to a Bacon podcast, you'll find it impossible to read this without hearing his voice in your head. 

Nice work, John. Cant wait to read the book.

---

“ The best way to predict the future is to invent it.” — Alan Kay

  • Login or register to post comments
October 21st, 2011 at 3:41 PM | "Humility in yourself" is not (Score:1)
elhead
elhead's picture
Joined: 11/07/2009
MGoPoints: 361

"Humility in yourself" is not always a quality of a lot of our alumni. Hats off to John Bacon for his subliminal message, at least, that some need a good portion of humble pie (and reflection.)

Gasp. Hold breath. Turn Blue!

  • Login or register to post comments
October 21st, 2011 at 3:50 PM | Many thanks to John U.B. (Score:1)
Michigasling
Michigasling's picture
Joined: 11/21/2009
MGoPoints: 3279

for having the courage to write this book, the honesty and integrity to do the subject justice, and for being generous enough to share these columns with us.  There are people I simply couldn't talk to about the last three years of Michigan football's program.  (Insert the three monkeys with their hands over eyes and ears, but not, unfortunately, mouth.)  I'm hoping they at least have the courage to read your book, accepting that you have first-hand knowledge and far greater credibility, and that they don't attack me when I gently nudge them toward doing so.  It's not a matter of who is/was right or wrong, it's a matter of listening to the other side of the story, whichever side one bought into in the three years of less responsible media coverage.

  • Login or register to post comments
October 21st, 2011 at 3:58 PM | Mr. Bacon (Score:1)
Bluefishdoc
Bluefishdoc's picture
Joined: 03/31/2011
MGoPoints: 30

My department hired John to give an after dinner talk at one of our faculty meetings (this was just after his book on Bo came out). It was a memorable evening and I have never meet a more passionate michigan fan in my life. He got as worked up as Bob Ufer describing ACs miracle game winning touchdown reception against Indiana. While I haven't read the new book yet, I have no doubt he writes the truth. He is a real Michigan Man.

Where ever you go - there you are

  • Login or register to post comments
October 21st, 2011 at 5:00 PM | Mr. Bacon. Your ideas (Score:2)
Pea-Tear Gryphon
Pea-Tear Gryphon's picture
Joined: 10/31/2009
MGoPoints: 2271

Mr. Bacon.

Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. In lieu of a newsletter subscription, I will add your book to my Christmas list and unwrap every gift with a giddy anticipation that it may be inside.

Good day sir,

"I've got an idea--an idea so smart that my head would explode if I even began to know what I'm talking about." - Peter Griffin

Twitter

  • Login or register to post comments
October 21st, 2011 at 5:33 PM | Question about Carr (Score:1)
Eye of the Tiger
Eye of the Tiger's picture
Joined: 09/14/2009
MGoPoints: 1054

He apparently wasn't interviewed, so his perspective isn't in the book.  Isn't this a problem?

Not saying that's JQB's fault (Carr is notoriously media-shy), but again...isn't this the source of his ire?  The opinions and negative feelings towards him fleshed out, and his own perspective absent?  Regardless of how fair or unfair the negativity is, I can see why he'd be pissed, to be honest.

When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them. Keep believing. -Bo

  • Login or register to post comments
October 21st, 2011 at 6:00 PM | To be fair to Bacon, I assume (Score:2)
chitownblue2
chitownblue2's picture
Joined: 06/03/2009
MGoPoints: 7062

To be fair to Bacon, I assume Carr declined, so I don't see how he has grounds to be upset at not being included.

wolverineliberationarmy.com/blog

  • Login or register to post comments
October 21st, 2011 at 7:46 PM | Not quite true (Score:1)
Eye of the Tiger
Eye of the Tiger's picture
Joined: 09/14/2009
MGoPoints: 1054

I don't want to pass judgement on a book I've only read excerpts of so far, but there are also questions of representativeness that are often not dealt with well in non-fiction where the author is close to a set of people with vested interests in particular interpretations of events.  This is a common problem of journalistic and other interview-based writing.  

 So I'll want to know: does Carr come off badly based on hearsay, or from Bacon's personal observation of him in public settings?  For example, there's a meeting Bacon mentions in an earlier one of these, between RR, LC and Bill Martin.  How did Bacon find out what transpired in that meeting?  From RR?  If so, we should be skeptical, just like we should if it went the other way.  

Who is it, exactly, who paints Carr in a negative light for Bacon?  What are their interests and who are they close to?  Again, if this were "13-and-Out: the Carr Years" and there was a negative portrayal of Rodriguez from former Carr players and Ron English, we'd have to treat it with the same degree of skepticism.  Maybe more, but that's besides the point.  

I'm going to read "Three and Out" with an open mind, and I'm really excited for my copy to arrive...but I'm naturally skeptical of these kinds of insider accounts, when it comes to their representation of divisive, polarizing conflicts.  

 

 

 

When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them. Keep believing. -Bo

  • Login or register to post comments
October 22nd, 2011 at 1:35 AM | 30-and-Out? (Score:1)
CountBluecula
Joined: 01/02/2010
MGoPoints: 99

Lloyd Carr was hired by U of M in 1980.  He left in 2010.  Wouldn't that make his book "30-(Depending on Anniversary Dates)-and-Out: the Carr Years"?

I noticed while looking that up on Wikipedia that Carr was for part of 1980 a defensive backs coach under Don Nehlen at WVU.  Rich Rodriguez was all-state football and basketball in West Virginia.  He attended WVU beginning in 1981.  Given that timeline, one would think that Carr would have to have been involved in the evaluation of Rodriguez as a college prospect.

If there journalist out there with access to WVU coaches and records from that period, this could make an interesting article, given Bacon's book is coming out now.

 

  • Login or register to post comments
October 24th, 2011 at 6:53 PM | Carr was only at WVU for a (Score:1)
Brodie
Brodie's picture
Joined: 11/19/2008
MGoPoints: 3454

Carr was only at WVU for a few months in the summer and his recruiting area was not West Virginia.

When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them. Keep believing. -- Bo Schembechler

  • Login or register to post comments
October 21st, 2011 at 6:07 PM | Common phrase littered (Score:2)
Bando Calrissian
Bando Calrissian's picture
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 7917

Common phrase littered throughout the book:  "(Carr declined a request for an interview.)"  He refused to participate, he wasn't forgotten or not asked.  It's on Coach Carr, not John Bacon.

  • Login or register to post comments
October 21st, 2011 at 5:50 PM | Visible support for John U (Score:1)
Coloblue
Joined: 11/03/2008
MGoPoints: 4

Here's a money making idea for someone:

I'd be happy to include Support John U. Bacon button (using those words, his picture, whatever) among my Michigan paraphenalia purchases. I'd wear it to every game and to any event or campus walk where it might be seen. Bacon is a Michigan Man if anyone is, and he's been one for a long time.

Supporting him in blog posts is sincere but not particularly notable or effective. John stepped up to the truth in the most public possible way, given his love for Michigan. We can go public for him. C'mon, someone; sell me a button. 

ColoBlue

  • Login or register to post comments
  • « first
  • ‹ previous
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
Powered by Pressflow, an open source content management system
Theme provided by Roopletheme; sidebars adapted from Chris Murphy.