Tate Forcier "Not With The Program," Denard Mum
vaya con dios
One quarterback is out, at least for now, and seemingly forever: someone finally asked Dave Brandon about Tate Forcier and he said he was "not with the program"—this is something that there was plenty of writing on the wall about since he hasn't been at meetings and currently isn't enrolled.
Meanwhile, other players are saying Denard is all in but Denard is remaining circumspect:
Robinson would not say whether he would stay at Michigan or transfer. "No," Robinson told The Detroit News as he walked into Michigan Stadium, when asked if he met with Hoke.
When pressed on the matter, Robinson smiled, shook his head and continued to walk into the stadium for what appeared to be a team meeting, about 90 minutes before Hoke's press conference.
"No comment," he said.
The press conference touched on Denard and because Hoke has eyes he'll try to keep him around.
In other news, the media is currently tickling Brady Hoke's belly.
January 12th, 2011 at 2:37 PM ^
If you told me I was bleeding profusely from my eyes I don't think I'd be surprised.
Well, at least we managed to lock down the OC WHO WASN'T GOOD ENOUGH FOR TOMMY TUBBERVILLE'S AUBURN.....
Everything smells all...... red. Maybe I'm stroking out.
January 12th, 2011 at 2:37 PM ^
roy roundtree and mike martin are saying denard will stay.
January 12th, 2011 at 6:26 PM ^
I'll Wait For Denard to Say he is Definitely Staying. It will depend on who tries to steal him.
January 12th, 2011 at 2:57 PM ^
That's all you got out if the presser? Weird. To me it seemed like we have a coach who loves Michigan, preaches toughness and vowed flexibility in offense style to allow denard to flourish. If you didn't follow the mgobubble, you'd think today was a positive day!
January 12th, 2011 at 3:31 PM ^
First of all, saying you "love michigan" is utterly meaningless when it comes to winning games. I love Michigan. I would still be a TERRIBLE head coach.
Secondly, "preaching toughness" is so utterly vapid that there aren't words to adequately describe how dumb they are. Does anybody think that our defense was awful because they weren't tough enough? That they didn't *try* hard enough? Our problems on defense were because of a lack of speed and experience. Hell, the only reason Can Gordon played was because he could be relied on to drop the wood on a guy!
Lastly, as to the Denard thing, I'll believe it when I see it. If Denard stays and if Hoke uses him properly, believe you me, there will be nobody happier than me.
But, I''m just another mindless drone inside the bubble, right?
January 12th, 2011 at 3:40 PM ^
What's the problem, dude? A "new low"? Praising the presser is a "new low"? Whatever your problem is...get over it.
January 12th, 2011 at 3:53 PM ^
Your gloating (spread, as it has been, over several days) is a bit too transparent. It's pretty obvious that you wanted Rodriguez jettisoned and that you'll be holding Hoke to an entirely different set of standards. (I'll avoid speculation on why that might be.)
Give it a week or two, maybe, and comments like the ones you make might become more digestible. Hoke seems like a great guy, the players like him, and I think most fans will eventually warm to him.
January 12th, 2011 at 4:10 PM ^
You couldn't be more wrong:
It's pretty obvious that...you'll be holding Hoke to an entirely different set of standards.
If you read my comments, you'd know that you're 100% incorrect. While I did want RR fired (because his performance merited firing), the standard is exactly the same. A coach should be evaluated by his performance. That is how I evaluated RR and how I will evaluate Hoke. I was initially happy with the RR hire and changed my tune after his performance fell short of expectations. We might all disagree on whether his performance merited firing, but my standards are based on performance. And what are my "standards" for Hoke? It's "pretty obvious"? Really? You'll fit in well here.
The opposite standard seems to apply for (many on) Mgoblog. They screamed at anyone who would question RR (and said "he was never given a chance from day 1"), and now are giving Hoke the treatment that they found so offensive to RR. Hypocrisy. Pure. Simple. Hypocrisy.
January 12th, 2011 at 4:22 PM ^
I can't really hate on Hoke for taking his dream job even if he might not be ready. I'd rather have a coach who lets his nuts swing and believes in himself than a guy who isn't confident in his abilities.
That said, the enmity should be focused squarely on Dave Brandon. I know this has all been hashed and rehashed here but this was a complete mess from the start. If Brandon was going to fire Rodriguez he should have done it after the OSU game and started the search. Then declaring a "national search" for the "best candidate available" but only as long as that candidate had ties to Michigan.
Assuming that media reports are correct Brandon never talked to Dan Mullen (who would have been my choice: he's young, he's at least partially responsible for great offenses at three schools and has a good eye for defensive coordinators), Gary Patterson, or Pat Fitzgerald.
Then, instead of making the bold move of announcing Hoke immediately he made it seem like he was courting Les Miles and Jim Harbaugh and that Hoke was the choice because they needed someone so they wouldn't have a recruiting disaster on their hands.
January 12th, 2011 at 4:41 PM ^
People are setting their expectations of Hoke based on his past performance. It happens to be 47-50. You might say that you need to put it in the perspective of the teams he was coach for and I'd agree. I put RR's Michigan performance into the perspective of his previous acheivements at WV and the supply of players he inherited. RR had a track record and I was confident we would become elite.
I'm also setting my expectations of Hoke based on Carr (to me that's what we're going back to with this hire). Remeber the pain and agony of a few games I won't mention? Punting on the opponents 35 yard line? Getting run over by spread team after spread team? I wasn't excited with the trajectory our program was headed.
While our performance was terrible the last three years I still had optimism. We could have had supperior players and a supperior system. Now my feeling goes back to where we were 5 years ago. Please explain the pure simple hypocrisy of putting context into the W-L record of a coach.
If you want to be specific, what were your expectations of RR and what are your current expecations of Hoke then next few years?
January 12th, 2011 at 5:19 PM ^
I think my comments might not make full sense if you're relatively new to posting here. The short version is that the majority has used "RR was opposed from day 1" as an endless excuse for his failings ("it was the fans' fault" was commonly heard). Raising a critique of RR's performance was met with "you're not a fan" (and much worse). So, the hypocrisy is that those same RR-defenders are now ripping the new coach on day 1.
In general, ignoring the history of the angry pro-RR mob here, I think it's fine to look at Hoke's record and hesitate a bit. I didn't know much about him but like him more as I learn more. I really like his presser performance as well. I think he will bring back the toughness we lost the last few years and we'll soon be competitive again with better teams.
To answer your questions...My expectations of RR were that we'd be competitive with all opponents and win most of our games (9+ per year by year three). I don't think we were anywhere near close to that (even with 7 wins we we not at all competitive with better teams and barely got past weak teams). I expect the same from Hoke (competitive with all and beat most).
January 12th, 2011 at 8:22 PM ^
What does that even mean? Mike Martin isn't tough? Brandon Graham wasn't tough? Tate Forcier playing hurt isn't tough? Guys in prison are tough. Would a team of them win the B1G?
January 12th, 2011 at 10:21 PM ^
Agree +1!
January 12th, 2011 at 3:02 PM ^
Unfortunate about Tate. He could very well have been the starter in Hoke's offense since he has the more accurate arm. Hope he reconsiders.
January 12th, 2011 at 3:16 PM ^
Kinda low brow insulting. Brian, I think you're turning into one of those people you used to complain about who'd rather be right than see Michigan do well. No one expects a shill or cheerleader, but if this is going to become an anti-Michigan site just because, you know, "I've been preaching something different and I didn't get my way", let us know up front. Because the boards have been more entertaining (and more informative) for over a week now.
January 12th, 2011 at 4:54 PM ^
The boards have been in unmitigated disaster for a week now. I can see why you might disagree as you seem to be one of the 38 people who have the Mgoblog app on some device - NTTAWWT. But from my perspective, it's been like reading a weird Maize and Blue tinted version of "Left Behind" where the majority of Mgoblog's readership got raptured (up? somewhere, at least) when Brandon dropped the axe on Rodriguez.
Either that or everyone just went and got new online identities/log-ins.
In any event, you and dahblue have made your positions very well known. I don't think you're giving Brian quite enough credit, as I haven't seen a lot from him lately that he wouldn't have written if it was a Rodriguez presser. I can understand how you see it differently, though, so I don't have a beef with it. I do think, though, that a number of folks around here (myself included) are in a bit of a mourning phase, having invested a great deal of emotional energy into the concept of what we thought Michigan football might become in the hands of a coach like Rodriguez (not to litigate at all what reality showed us over the past three years instead). I'm pretty sure we're all going to be cheering for Hoke and the team that's now in his hands just as loudly and with just as much abandon when they take the field in nearly 9 months. But right now, for myself at least, this is all commingled with a bitter taste of lost opportunity.
Which, I'll give you, was made possible with the bitter taste of actual losses.
January 12th, 2011 at 5:09 PM ^
I just meant that the news is appearing on the board faster, and some of the open thread discussions (when people can get on) has been better than the lack of content of any analytical substance.
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<br>I have no problem with grieving. I'm not happy that we as a community failed with Rich. I wanted him to succeed. Actually, like Brian, I wasn't even sure till the bowl game that it was probably irreversible. That's why you haven't seen me say anything about anyone wanting to criticize Brandon's "process". But these snide remarks about Hoke, who apparently to this point as the Michigan coach has only done what's popularly considered a good press conference are beneath the blog, and not what I have any interest in reading. Willing a self-fulfilling prophecy that Denard is gone (is Brian trying to encourage him to leave by pointing out how doomed he is here?), or how it's going to fail to win here...I don't get what he's going for.
January 12th, 2011 at 9:46 PM ^
After disagreeing with you over the weekend over the Les Miles thing, I totally agree with the second part of your post. The fan base did, collectlvely, let Rich down. That was not good. However, it will not make things any better if we do the same to Brady Hoke. I get that people may be upset. But why is it helpful to allow some kind of MGoMourning Period where it is OK to tear down the new coach who hasn't had time to do anything except to politely tell Drew Sharpe to go to hell?
Also, can someone please change the banner already?
January 12th, 2011 at 5:11 PM ^
Did the people who got "raptured" ascend to MGoHeaven or MGoHell?
January 12th, 2011 at 5:15 PM ^
It's good to hear from someone outside of the 20-odd folks with an iPhone. But, how were you able to form an opinion that doesn't appear to have been authored/endorsed by Brian -- according to M-Wolverine and dahblue, that's all we do around here.
[edit -- this is in response to Tubauberalles]
January 12th, 2011 at 3:29 PM ^
and was ineligible due to grades, what was the likelihood that he'd play in the fall no matter who the coach was?
January 12th, 2011 at 3:29 PM ^
Brian, seriously man . . . are you going to be this passive-aggressive toward Hoke all offseason?
January 12th, 2011 at 3:49 PM ^
Of straight whining like a spoiled 4 year old. We haven't even lost our first game yet, but we iz DOOMED!
January 12th, 2011 at 8:45 PM ^
It is getting tiring hearing him back hand Hoke. Anyone not get that Brian wishes Hoke hadn't been hired? Anyone? Ok, we all fraking get it!
He wasn't my first choice either (damn you Harbaugh!!!!!) but he is here and, man, is he psyched. It is time to get behind the guy and see what he does.
I really hope that this blog doesn't turn into anti-Hoke central.
January 12th, 2011 at 3:32 PM ^
Well, shit. Best of luck, Tate, wherever you go.
January 12th, 2011 at 3:32 PM ^
That would be a small victory in all this....keeping Denard Robinson would be nice.
January 12th, 2011 at 3:36 PM ^
Does anyone know if Denard is at all connected to the Walter Camp awards this weekend (He was their player of the week twice, and a semifinalist for their player of the year)? And more importantly, if he's going to New Haven for the ceremonies?
January 12th, 2011 at 3:38 PM ^
Contestant: "Hmm, Alex, I'll take Synonyms for $500."
Alex: "Alright, here is your clue: Transferring"
Contestant: "Tate Forcier"
Alex: "Tate Forcier is correct. We would have also taken Jason Forcier or Chris Forcier."
January 12th, 2011 at 3:49 PM ^
Correct response: "Who is Tate Forcier?"
January 12th, 2011 at 3:48 PM ^
Coach Hoke has a much better understanding of what it means to be Michigan footbal, then RR did on his best day. lets drop the negativty, and pull together. After Hokes press conf., i was ready to hit the weight room and im not even on the team! RR wasnt a motivator, and it showed the past 3 seasons. those who stay, ( and i believe most will if not all) will rally behind their new HC. another positive i heard, was the expectations, they were realistic WIN THE BIG TEN FIRST, then we can start talking about the NC. word of advice to you Brian, get some exercise, seriously it helps when your stressed out.
GO BLUE
January 12th, 2011 at 4:34 PM ^
Sort of hard to bitch about negativity of others when your first sentence is a direct bash on RR.
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<br>As far as exercise goes, I would suggest some for Hoke (or a good succession plan) based on the sweating and red flush -- I am sure he was nervous - shown at the press conference.
<br>
<br>That said I am gaining acceptance of the hire based on the presser, but am not yet excited like I was good-or-bad with RR. As an out of state alum I had become detached from the program and lulled into acceptance of the "mediocrity" of 8-4 and 9-3 seasons. RR got me obsessed again and I hope Hoke can keep it up.
January 12th, 2011 at 6:22 PM ^
Saban didn't understand Michigan State, LSU, or Alabama. He understands how to win with superior talent. I would be OK with less understanding, better recruits, and better coaching.
January 12th, 2011 at 3:51 PM ^
I agree that the tone of the past few posts have been a little to anti-Hoke, but to be fair, it is jarring to see one guy with a mediocre record be praised as a massive upgrade while the guy who just got canned was attacked from Day 1. Let people vent for a bit, then start complaining.
January 12th, 2011 at 4:04 PM ^
Sound familiar? That's what everyone here cried about RR before attacking Hoke on day 1. Frankly, I think this blog would be a better place if everyone could just voice their opinion without being attacked, but hypocrisy is a bitch. For so many people to cry about the treatment of RR, only to treat Hoke the same way???? It's unreal. Folks have lost their right to vent purely because they so angrily denounced others in the past.
Of course, those others based their RR opinion on performance. The Hoke hate isn't even based on that...
January 12th, 2011 at 4:24 PM ^
Frankly, I think this blog would be a better place if everyone could just voice their opinion without being attacked, but hypocrisy is a bitch.
Agreed, so will you please stop attacking anyone venting their frustration regarding their opinion of how RR was treated, the coaching search, or the new hire?
p.s. hypocrisy is a bitch.
January 12th, 2011 at 4:33 PM ^
Here's the thing....Those who have attacked others for "not supporting RR from day 1" have waived their right to vent any frustration/criticism of the Hoke hire (on this "day 1"). Those people attacked anyone who raised a concern with RR (even when such concerns were based on his performance at Michigan) with a flurry of expletive-laced attacks. So, again, they have no right to vent. They lost it. Those folks need to live by the standards they set for others.
It's kinda like Ted Haggard. It wasn't a big deal that he was gay or that he had sex with a male prostitute...but, since he had fervently preached against homosexuality...he no longer had a right to have sex with male prostitutes without being called a hypocrite.
January 12th, 2011 at 4:56 PM ^
I've been reading your posts, and upvoting them because your basic point about hypocrisy is at least interesting, if not accurate (I don't really care whether or not it's accurate because I don't have a stake in the matter). It has the potential to make for some intriguing dialogical back-and-forth.
However, I don't think you're being understood by others, partially because sometimes you throw in unnecessary digs (e.g., "get over it," etc. . .) that make you come off as a jerk. The whole "mgobubble" thing, while perhaps a useful metaphor, obviously does not resonate with others, but instead irritates them (at least).
If you're going to continue with the "hypocrisy" meme, I suggest crafting your message more explicitly and rationally, and less ad hominem. Moreover, many people operate only on an immediate feelings level - in other words, whatever comports with their immediate feelings (prior to reason or reflection) = good; whatever doesn't = bad. They can't go beyond this to reflect and contemplate what is, for example, reasonable or objective, aside from their immediate feelings. To continue bashing people, only to get immediate feeling responses without any rational reflection will be fruitless.
So perhaps abandon the whole "hypocrisy" meme altogether. The fact of the matter is that human beings are just as capable of attaching to personalities they happen to like as they are to the institutions led by those personalities, and perhaps more so. The same goes with "being right" (e.g., "I'd rather be proven right than see the institution succeed and be proven wrong").
Why fight a war of attrition?
January 12th, 2011 at 5:02 PM ^
You and I obviously take very different things from dahblue's posts - even if I'd been able to upvote this past week, I don't recall my hand twitching in that direction. But I was just about to try and put a jamiemac special out there on the over/under for percentage of dahblue posts that employ the word "hypocrisy". The constant use of that single word has me nearly convinced he's actually a third grader and that's one of his sight words. But who wouldn't be excited to use such a difficult to spell word, once it's been mastered?
January 12th, 2011 at 5:10 PM ^
I hear ya and appreciate the upvotes. Frankly, after getting bashed (and insulted) endlessly for "not supporting the coach" by the same people who are now "not supporting the coach", it's a bit of a "are you fucking kidding me" moment. I'll be over it soon, but I'm stubborn.
January 12th, 2011 at 7:21 PM ^
in your, 'we should all support the coach at Michigan because he is the coach at Michigan and no one should criticize anything about him'?
Are you fucking kidding me?
January 12th, 2011 at 8:07 PM ^
He's talking about equal treatment. That's all. Criticize the new regime as honestly as you did the former. Be optimistic and loyal to the new regime as you were the former.
January 12th, 2011 at 11:33 PM ^
See WatersDemos below...
January 12th, 2011 at 4:57 PM ^
So that makes what you're doing okay? You're calling out everyone for being so hypocritical because they attacked people sharing their opinion and yet can't see the irony in chasing down every pro-RR response to attack that person as a mindless sheep that's part of the "bubble."
No one has waived any rights. This is the internet and fans venting and hyperventilating is a regular function of this blog. "Those people" happen to be a collective of individuals that don't goose-step together (invoking Godwin's Law).
The skepticism of the hire is a perfectly valid opinion, no one is going anti-Hoke and attacking the man himself (a far cry from how things started against RR) but they're concerned with the hire based on his prior performance, or lack thereof.
What I, and I would assume others, are asking is that you please show others the same level of respect on here that you're claiming they give no one else. Not because they "deserve it" based on what they've done or not done in the past but because it's the right thing to do.
January 12th, 2011 at 4:07 PM ^
But while there were those who didn't accept the last hire from the start, overall it was overwhelmingly praised. Go back and look at the articles and reaction at the time- they were all "what a steal; Michigan gets exciting hot coach it craved; that system with Michigan recruiting =win!". So to take the role that the irrational minority did last time seems....problematic....
January 12th, 2011 at 3:52 PM ^
Good luck to Tate - wish him the best. He did quite a bit for the team in his two years, and well never forget ND in 2009 and Illinois this year.
January 12th, 2011 at 4:13 PM ^
I think Tate is making a mistake. He is probably better suited to play in a Hoke offense of any sort than he was in the RR era. Was he just bombing out of school finally or is he heading for greener (less blue) pastures? I loved Tate's moxie and I wish him the best wherever he goes. I will never forget some of those crazy last minute heroics he managed, especially his freshman year.
Without Tate, I hope to God Devin is busy busy busy this spring and summer getting ready to play. I think he'll be a great one, but he needs the reps.
Go Blue
January 12th, 2011 at 4:41 PM ^
Better fit in Hoke's offense? You're kidding me right? Tate was made for Rich Rod's offense. Yes he struggled in his first season, but you saw the potential of it this year. He's going to be another Mallet who takes his team high up the rankings. *sigh* If we lost Robinson this Michigan program for the next two years is going to go to crap. Recruitment is already heading towards that with the firing of Rich Rod, and bringing in Hoke to be his predecessor.
January 12th, 2011 at 5:20 PM ^
While I think Tate can be successful at another program, I don't see Tate achieving the same amount of success as Mallet. Tate has good mobility and an accurate arm, but not the same arm strength as a Mallet.
Wish him well, wherever he ends up.
January 12th, 2011 at 5:35 PM ^
Agreed. I think he could probably do very well at a smaller program, also, where he doesn't have to take all the hits he took as a freshman. When he was healthy, he was solid, but the hits piled up and took a toll on him.
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