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Sunk Costs

By Brian — November 24th, 2008 at 12:31 PM — 75 comments

11/22/2008 – Michigan 7, Ohio State 42 – 3-9, 2-6 Big Ten

product_life_cycle

I gave you the emotional appeal for patience with Rich Rodriguez on Friday. Then Michigan went out and got clubbed to death like everyone expected, though the killing blows took a longer to get home. Michigan is 3-9, the season is over, etc.

So what happened? Who's at fault? How does this affect Rodriguez going forward?

What happened. In retrospect the optimism about the season was comical. At some point in fall camp it became clear the coaches did not think the one viable scholarship quarterback on the roster was obviously better than a walk-on who looks like the wimpy guy in a barbershop quartet. This should have been a HEAD FOR THE HILLS moment.

Instead, I saw (and participated in) a classic moment of irrational fan optimism: it's not that bad. He was injured as a senior, he could be okay. He slipped through the cracks. He's a better fit for the system. And so on and so forth.

Meanwhile, a defensive tackle was moved to the offensive line and ended up starting. Michigan lost one of its only viable starters in the preseason. Stevie Brown would reclaim a starting job, and the other safeties would be 1) a guy who had been playing corner and 2) a guy who couldn't hack it at corner.

People say "Michigan shouldn't be that bad with all that talent!" and I say "I would like to see some of this talent!" There is obviously none on offense except that which is underclassmen. Sure, the defensive line is great but it doesn't matter when none of your linebackers can cover worth a damn and the safeties give out long touchdowns like candy. This thing was doomed from the start, and even if Rodriguez screwed up all he did was make it slightly more doomed.

Who's at fault. Everyone:

  • Lloyd Carr put all his eggs in Mallett's basket, leaving Michigan with David Cone as upperclass QBs this year. His recruiting was obviously rotting slowly, too.
  • Angry Michigan Mobile Quarterback Hating God blew up Antonio Bass's knee.
  • Bill Martin scheduled Utah instead of Sam Houston State.
  • Rich Rodriguez thought Steven Threet was worse than Nick Sheridan.
  • Angry Michigan Fan Sanity God also thought it would be funny to see Michigan fumble every ten seconds.

There's plenty to go around.

The one criticism being launched on the internet and elsewhere that I think has some validity is directed at the defensive staff. They had one and a half viable linebackers and a returning senior who spent the last two years of his career as a LB/CB/S hybrid. Maybe Thompson plays against UW, MSU, and OSU, but the switch to a nickel package against the spread took nine games and was only spurred by a move to a 3-3-5 that Justin Siller shredded for 48 points. Much of the year Michigan ran out three-man fronts on potential running downs and was gashed.

If they keep Thompson off the field and go with a nickel all year and never, ever go to a three man line on a potential running down Michigan probably wins another game or two more games and this year is not nearly as ugly. Is that on Shafer? I don't know. I suspect there was some major conflict between the various guys running the defense, as two of them were new to Rodriguez and two were holdovers.

I'm willing to grant a first-year coordinator a mulligan when he doesn't know the strengths and weaknesses of his players; next year I hope to see a more coherent idea of what Michigan can and cannot do and what players are good.

What now. A favorite media complaint of late has been that "it didn't have to be this bad," inevitably followed by "why didn't Rodriguez run Mike DeBord's offense?" The latter idea has already been debunked here. The former is not a complaint for Rich Rodriguez, it's for Bill Martin. If Martin wanted he could have hung on to an assistant or grabbed Brady Hoke or picked up any number of coaches who would have changed the culture and offense less radically.

Once you decide to bring Rodriguez in, though, you are committed to some degree of rebuilding, and when your hotshot QB recruit transfers leaving nothing behind him that degree is "lots." This is not Rodriguez's fault. I'm sure there were any number of things he could have done better, and that in some way he has personality flaws that make transition years under him more brutal than they usually are. Okay. Those are a sunk cost. 2008 is a sunk cost. This is a sunk cost:

In economics and business decision-making, sunk costs are costs that cannot be recovered once they have been incurred. Sunk costs are sometimes contrasted with variable costs, which are the costs that will change due to the proposed course of action…. In microeconomic theory, only variable costs are relevant to a decision. Economics proposes that a rational actor does not let sunk costs influence one's decisions, because doing so would not be assessing a decision exclusively on its own merits.

Even if Rodriguez did run off Mallett and Manningham and Arrington and Boren and various other players and is just really horrible at transitioning football teams, all that already happened. We suffered the consequences of it. Booting Rodriguez before he's been given a chance to show what he can do with a roster of his guys makes this year in vain.

I mention it because the ridiculous "BCS with a sophomore QB in 2010 or DEATH" meme has spread beyond the addled brain of the Worst Columnist in America and to some of the more Little Wayne-obsessed parts of the Michigan blogosphere:

We're predicting a sloppy 7-5 campaign … and a loss in the Alamo, setting up a situation in Year 3 that he MUST reach a BCS bowl. No pressure, though.

I generally like the Realests, but no. This horrible season should not have much bearing on Rich Rodriguez's job security. It's sunk and gone. As long as Michigan improves consistently and Rodriguez strides towards the excellent program he had at West Virginia, his job should be safe. Firing him after three years if he goes 3-9, 6-6, and 8-4 would be the first step towards the doming down of the program.

Because. Because I have to tell you, the state of the program right now is not good. 19 scholarship defenders return. Not on the two-deep. On the roster. In all likelihood, a freshman will start at quarterback next year and the skill position players will be mostly underclassmen. Michigan should obviously be better next year. They probably aren't going to be good.

I'm sorry to harp on this, but in my mind it's the primary danger facing the program right now. They've grabbed a high quality coach with 20 years of experience young enough to stay at Michigan for 20 years, which is a combination you never see. Getting rid of Rich Rodriguez for not moving the program in the right direction enough would be the biggest mistake Michigan has made in over 40 years.

Suck it up and ye shall reach the promised land. As Ninja Football says: WE ARE GOING TO BE A MACHINE.

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Posted on: November 25th, 2008 at 9:14 AM #1
Other Andrew
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Doming Down is...

...freaking hilarious.

Road Games is another blog

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 9:13 PM #2
Stymie2000
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I have to agree, almost

"They've grabbed a high quality coach with 20 years of experience young enough to stay at Michigan for 20 years, which is a combination you never see."

Perhaps you should have said "you WILL never see". If we see a few good years out of him and he has the opportunity to jump ship he'll be gone in a flash. He proved at WVU that he has no loyalty.

Also, you failed to mention the fight on the sideline. It was embarassing to see a player shove a coach out of anger and frustration. No matter how bad the team is the coaches should demand respect and this proves that that is not the case with Rich and his staff.

Stymie2000

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 9:10 PM #3
mth822
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At least Michigan isnt the lions

Jason Hansen summed up being without a win pretty well. Michigan lost to PSU,UTAH,OSU,MSU.........all ranked, some up for BCS games.

"We've played so bad that we actually have something to play for now," veteran kicker Jason Hanson said, well aware of the irony in his words.

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 8:04 PM #4
Procumbo
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Agree with everything, but...

the media blowhards don't decide how long Rodriguez stays, Bill Martin does. Whatever else he is, Martin is a patient man. Rodriguez will get a fair shake.

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 6:43 PM #5
Ernis
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Thankfully

Bill Martin is a businessman and understands the things Brian has written about, and is not one of these raving idiotic drama queens. We are in good hands, methinks.

That's right, Dude. 100% certain.

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 5:54 PM #6
w2j2
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Brian, you nailed it. My note

Brian, you nailed it.
My note to Rich Rod & the team is in the mail.

Also, did you read about the Notre Dame students pelting their team with snowballs?
That is the next step when "booing" does not make them play better.........

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 5:00 PM #7
Coach Schiano
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this post is sanity

unlike the msm, this blog actually makes sense.

the media is pretty easy to please. if/when RR starts winning, it will be all glory stories and how great he is. if he loses, it will be all negative and how crappy he is. pretty dumb, and pretty easy.

anytime you think MSM is onto something, just remember every other article about Jordan before he won a championship. "But is he a winner?" Plain dumb.

Thanks to Brian for actually being sane. Go RR, and Go Blue!

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 4:17 PM #8
DMadCat
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Alright, Rodriguez came in

Alright, Rodriguez came in and started teaching a system counter to anything anyone on that team understood or were comfortable with. They're still learning it but slowly. Couple that with lack of size/general experience (those guys on offense are kids compared to the Seniors most teams are fielding) and I have to ask, how can you possibly expect much out of them.

Also, regarding the way overcooked notion that this was our "worst year ever" go check out MVictors for a good analysis of just what that means and why this wasn't. Worst in a while yes. Ever? Not even close.

Above all, have faith! That terrible defense held OSU to 14 points on two big plays and had TONS of 3 and outs while spending a horrendous amount of time on the field that first half. With no offense a defense can only do so much and I thought they played fantastic that first half.

Getting rid of Rodriguez is a ridiculous notion and one that I'm happy to say just won't happen. Michigan does not fire head coaches lightly. If you watched the Minnesota game you noticed the offense clicking on all cylinders and completely dominant. Take heart because with practice, experience, and RR's recruits that's what we'll look like in the future against the tough teams.

Things will improve. Michigan will once again stand as the Leaders and Best. GO BLUE!

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 4:01 PM #9
Beburns3
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The only mistake Michigan ever made...

was taking the train to South Bend and teaching students and Notre Dame to play football. Which, ND seems to have forgotten everything they were taught. We won't end up like ND (no bowl win since 93). We will be fine.

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 4:00 PM #10
Magnus
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Jason Forcier would have been

Jason Forcier would have been an upperclassman this year, too. And he would have fit Rodriguez's offense. I don't think it's Lloyd's fault for leaving the QB cupboard bare, since when he left, he just spit out Chad Henne, had 5-star Mallett to back him up, had just lost 4-star Forcier the previous summer, brought in a 4-star transfer (Threet), and had 3-star John Wienke lined up.

Shit happens. It's not like every other team has 5-star quarterbacks just waiting in the wings.

http://touchthebanner.blogspot.com/2010/03/what-will-michigans-defense-l...

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 4:00 PM #11
Simon
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Sunk Cost Might Be An Overstatement

I am completely aware of the difference between a Sunk Cost and Variable Costs, but at some point as a coaching staff you need to be accountable for what amasses as the programs worst year ever.

I'm not saying that the odds weren't completely stacked against him this year and I'm certainly not saying that a 2010 BCS bid is a must, but the idea of a sunk cost is that it should completely be ignored when making a decision on the future. And I can't sign up for that. If in three years or whenever it remains questionable whether he can turn the program back around using his system than the fact that he captained the ship during its attack on icebergs should matter.

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 3:52 PM #12
Michigan Arrogance
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OMG

"If he didn't have the resume and turned in this season"

then he wouldn't have been considered one of the top 5-10 coaches in the game, been to BCS bowls, won them, or have been hired by UM in the 1st place.

as bad as this season went (and i agree there is some measure of blame to go to the coaches (hello, Pur & Toledo) but the offense had all of 15-ish games of starting offensive experience on 8/31. schilling and mathews. everyone else was 100% green and 75% not talented. so yes... bad FP due to O & ST fuckups lead to points. still, the yards allowed was terrible by the D>

Harvard: The MICHIGAN of the East

We're not arrogant, we're just better.

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 3:28 PM #13
Polisci
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Put me down for 2 gallons of

Put me down for 2 gallons of the RR cool aid, because I believe!

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 3:20 PM #14
caup
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My minimum expectation for next year:

For me, I'm setting 7 wins as the minimum. Even if it's just 6-6 plus a Motor City Bowl win.
Another losing season would be really troubling, especially considering that we're going to have 3 complete tomato cans in our non-conference schedule. Plus Indiana and Purdue at home. That should be 5 wins right there. Then M would only be scraping for ONE more win amongst the following:

ND at home
@MSU
@Iowa
PSU at home
@ILL
@Wisconsin
OSU at home

Put together another losing season with THAT schedule and we'll be staring at the inevitable Callahan and Weis comparisons.

Go Blue

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 3:38 PM #15
msoccer10
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Sadly

I think we will probably be underdogs in all of those games you list. I agree we should be able to get one upset, but it isn't a sure thing.

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 4:13 PM #16
WolvinLA
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And Michigan State loses

And Michigan State loses Hoyer and Ringer, who were their entire offense. I doubt MSU will be favored against us.

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 3:40 PM #17
chitownblue (not verified)
Iowa loses their entire

Iowa loses their entire D-Line and probably Shonn Greene. I don't think they'll be that good.

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 5:59 PM #18
BleedingBlue
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Penn Shhhtate

Loses a ton of talent too

I NEED QUESO! QUESOOOOO!!

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 3:15 PM #19
bhallpm
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He's kind of like Obama except white

Look, we are in the position of HAVING TO BELIEVE this guy has what it takes to create and maintain a powerhouse. If we lose that faith, say in year 3, then we have no choice but to cut him loose but it will, as Brian suggests, send Michigan into the wilderness for 40 years.

Anyone need reminding of the fact that, despite evil frustrating wins against us over and over, Notre Dame has been a non top 25 team, basically, for what, something like 3 or more complete cycles of gradumatates.

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 3:08 PM #20
DrDetroit
Joined: 2008-11-06
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Schafer and the Defense

You can't blame the defense for the bad season they had. As much as that doesn't make sense I'll explain it. Its on the offense. If the offense had played any better, the defense would have been drastically better.

Against Penn State in the 2nd quarter:
The Michigan offense went 3 and out, 3 and out and a 3 and out. Penn State got the ball back with 2:01 to play and put together a 58 yard TD drive. So, one first down by the offense and Penn State might not get the ball back in the 2nd half. That would improve the D's numbers.

In the 4th quarter. Michigan's offense fumbled, 3 and out and a 3 and out. One first down and PSU is probably taking a knee at the end of the game rather than the 80 yd TD drive. Two first downs and Penn State doesn't get the ball back.

So, for a whopping 30 more yards of offense Michigan would have taken 138 yards and 14 points off the board against the defense.

The pattern is repeated throughout the season. The offense gets into a rut of 3 and out and that simply gives our opponents too many opportunities. A few first downs here and there and another scoring drive or two and the defense is magically better.

The offense was simply killing the team all season. Next year with the more mobile QB the defense will improve just because the offense will get more first downs.

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 11:07 PM #21
funkywolve
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PSU - 58 yd drive??

Was it only about 3 plays with the last one being something like a 50 yd td run?

Kind of agree with you.

To me, one of the most disappointing aspects of the defense was all the big running plays they gave up this year. I know in the later years of Carr they were prone to this some, but it seemed like it took on epidemic proportions this year. When you're out there playing good solid defense for a long stretch and then bam, you give up a 50 yd TD run, that's gotta deflate you some.

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 3:33 PM #22
msoccer10
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Special teams

also killed the D. It gave opponents great field position over and over due to fumbles.

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 2:38 PM #23
Michigan Arrogance
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"what evidence is there that

"what evidence is there that he has done a good coaching job this year?"

improvement of the OL, as you stated.

"I am very concerned that most of your views are based on RichRod's success at WVU."

why? that's where most of his HCing has been.

"success at WVU [...] essentially occurred after Miami, Virginia Tech and BC left the conference. When your big game is Pitt, Rutgers, or Cicinatti(sic), winning the conference does not seem like such an accomplishment."

he did well against those 3 when they were in the BE. he won 2 BCS games w/ his system (yes, including last year). Pitt has talent but a doofus coach (Ill?) Rutgers == MSU. Cinci == Iowa. WV did not out recruit the rest of the BE.

"no way to coach Odoms out of fumbling punts, but if you can't why keep sending him out there?"

b/c he's all we have at the position.

Defense was a legit issue, IMO.

and FTR, no one is arguing the dismissal of any coach after 1 year. that is obviously ridic and shouldn't even be addressed. the issue is, after we go 8-4 next year (or whatev) he'll be expected to go 11-1 w/ a Soph QB and a young D in '10. the argument is that limiting RR to 3-4 years to get a BCS win BECAUSE of this craptastic season in stead of 5-6 years after a 5-7 or 6-6 '08, is dumb.

Harvard: The MICHIGAN of the East

We're not arrogant, we're just better.

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 2:29 PM #24
bronxblue
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totally agree with Brian on this

Of all the issues people (including myself) have with Martin, the one thing the guys seems to be is patient. He let Amaker stumble through 6 pretty forgettable seasons because the guy could recruit a little and OMG played at Duke. Yes, Michigan football is a bigger deal than basketball on this campus, but M fans are still not nearly as bad as those at SEC/Big 12 schools, where not winning enough gets you the boot. The media will hammer home the same talking points about RR needing to go, but Martin has this weird, foreign ability to judge a team objectively with his own eyes, not based on the 600-word missives fired off by bloggers and columnists on a deadline. I don't foresee Martin pulling the plug on the RR Experience any earlier than year 5 or 6, and maybe even later if (when) this team starts beating OSU again.

Something else I noticed about this season was how close UM was from 6-6. Take away Fumblepalooza/Deep Impact 2008 (ND), that crazy hook-and-ladder by Purdue, and the missed kick against Toledo, and UM is 6-6 and I'm flying back from NY to take part in the Step-Brother of them all bowl games, the Motor City Bowl. This season, for all of its warts, was not some collosal failure like ND 2007 or even Clemson 2008 - this was a typical transition year that could have been far more palpable to the average fan with 3 or 4 lucky bounces.

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 2:26 PM #25
caup
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Bluesince77,

Exhibit A: 2005 WVU beat Georgia in the Sugar Bowl
Exhibit B: 2007 WVU destroyed Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl.
Exhibit C: As OC at Clemson, they led the ACC in offense.
Exhibit D: As OC, helped Tulane go 11-0, with the #1 offense in the country.

Go Blue

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 2:54 PM #26
Bluesince77
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Very legitimate points and

Very legitimate points and cause for hope. I would be as happy as anyone if RichRod turns out to be the guy. But my point is that the best argument for him is what he's done in the past (and much of that is in an inferior conference). If he didn't have the resume and turned in this season (or for that matter if he was Lloyd and turned in this season)I think we'd be united in wanting his head. I don't think there's much evidence that he did a good job with this year's Michigan team (and if I'm missing something I'd be happy if I was wrong). Moreover, if he goes 8-4 next year as Arrogant Michigan fan suggests, I'd be satisfied that that was a sign of significant progress. But I do think if Michigan goes 5-7 or even 6-6 that a long look would have to be taken to evaluate the coaching job that RR is doing. I do stand by my view that the mark of a good coach is that he gets the most out of his players. If objectively, what he does next year meets that test I'm fine with it. If it doesn't I don't think he gets to rest on his prior accomplishments any more than the rest of us do.

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 4:16 PM #27
WolvinLA
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In your assessment of the Big

In your assessment of the Big East, you left out the best team he competed against during that periond - Louiville, with Brian Brohm, Michael Bush and Bobby Petrino. They were always ranked, at times in the top ten. During that period they were as good as any Big Ten team aside from OSU, and RR still regularly beat them. So let's not make it seem like the Big East was comparable to the MAC.

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 2:21 PM #28
caup
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Mallett was questionable

He completed less than 50% of his passes throwing to NFL-drafted WRs. And couldn't figure out how to take a snap without fumbling it.
Compare his spot duty to Henne's performance in 2004. Night and day.

Go Blue

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 9:04 PM #29
The Squid
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Mallett looked like a true

Mallett looked like a true freshman. I don't think that makes him questionable.

Can we please dispense with the idea that Henne's freshman performance is a threshold for good true freshman quarterbacking? Henne's 2004 season was a remarkable achievement that's going to be very rarely duplicated.

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 2:20 PM #30
Bluesince77
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What evidence is there of good coaching?

Look folks, we all care about Michigan football and I would like RichRod to succeed. I also believe he is entitled to another year. But, realistically, what evidence is there that he has done a good coaching job this year? I am very concerned that most of your views are based on RichRod's success at WVU. It is important to note that this success, essentially occurred after Miami, Virginia Tech and BC left the conference. When your big game is Pitt, Rutgers, or Cicinatti, winning the conference does not seem like such an accomplishment. Now none of that is proof that he is a bad coach, but, it's not evidence that he is a great coach either. So, let's look at his performance this year.

In my view, the fundamental quality of a good coach is that he gets the most out of his players. He may not win championships, but his players do the best that they are capable. Can anyone out there with a straight face, really say that RichRod got the most he could out of this team? Are you really saying that these players were not capable of beating Toledo and Purdue. If you're not saying that, why are you so convinced that the criticisms of RichRod are so unfair?

Now, I strongly disagree with the view that you can't coach fundamentals. Both Bo and Woody made their careers out of coaching fundamentals. Can anyone suggest that this was a fundamentally sound team? They simply did not block or tackle well. Yes, many were underclassmen, but still. Moreover,perhaps there's no way to coach Odoms out of fumbling punts, but if you can't why keep sending him out there? That's fundamentally poor coaching.

I don't disagree with the view that the offense was substantially depleted by graduations and I am not after RichRod's head because Mallet and Boren transferred and Arrington turned pro (though certainly he doesn't get any brownie points for his handling of this). Nonetheless, the defense had seven returning starters from a 9-4 team that beat Florida. So, the incompetence of the defense is incomprehensible and I think can fairly be laid on to the coaching (by the way is anyone the least concerned about the defensive signal confusion and shouting during the OSU game?) Lloyd's recruting may have been on the downswing the last few years but until the disaster of this season was completed, no one would have accepted that this was 3-9 talent.

So, where are we? You cannot say that those of us who are skeptical of RichRod are all neanderthals who don't understand football. There is cause for serious concern that the man is not as gifted a coach as you would like to believe and is doing serious damage to the program. Personally, I don't know. But saying if we fire him we will turn into the next Nebraska or ND to me makes no sense when RR may well be the next Weiss or Callahan. I think the only good way to look at it is to ask yourself what kind of coaching job RR did this year with this team. Most of the evidence points to not very good, but there are some things that do make me believe the issue is not settled:

1. He has a history of lousy first years. I don't think there's a legitimate reason for this as most good coaches improve a program their first year (go look at the first year records of Saban, Miles, Tressel, Meyer, etc. Not to mention, of course, Schembechler-yes I know he had a talented team) but it seems to be RichRod's way so a bad first year is not necessarily a predictor.

2. He has had success at other programs, although that it was a weak Big East makes me nervous.

3. I saw progress in the offensive line. This is the one coaching area where I think they did a good job. Last year's O-line was essentially Jake Long and four guys who couldn't block anyone. This year they had essentially no one and by the end of the year they were opening holes even though the defense knew there was no passing game. This is the biggest cause of optimism in my view.

4. He recruited Beaver and Forcier.

In my view, the foregoing is not cause to give RichRod 5 or 6 years unless substantial progress is made next year and the year after. Otherwise, you are just hoping he's a good coach without any evidence that he is (at least for Michigan). I think, with respect, that a lot of your support for RichRod is based on the horrible thought that if he isn't the answer then Michigan really is on the verge of a disaster with no clear answer and no clear way out. I hope that's not the case but just as I don't believe RichRod should be fired at this time, I don't think he deserves any fan letters either.

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 3:25 PM #31
chitownblue (not verified)
The idea of a fan of team

The idea of a fan of team that resides in the current Big 10 calling the Big East that contained Miami, BC, and VaTech "weak", is hilarious.

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 2:25 PM #32
Gregg
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Sunk Cost

"Booting Rodriguez before he's been given a chance to show what he can do with a roster of his guys makes this year in vain."

Just wanted to point out that this statement is not necessarily consistent with the concept of sunk cost. The basic idea behind sunk cost is that you should make the best possible decision that you can today regardless of what has already happened. That is to say, the investment in RRod and his system for the past year is irrelevant. The only relevant thing is how you think the team will perform next year under RRod vs. another option.

For what it's worth, I completely agree with Brian's premise and think that it would be shortsighted to fire RRod after one year.

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 2:07 PM #33
Michigan Arrogance
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the fact is,

the OL recruiting has been terrible. we we're getting 2nd & 3rd choices a lot the last 2-3 years, save boren & schilling.

the QB stuff... it wasn't that LC didn't recruit other QBs. it's that he went after a questionable guy in mallet that chased others away. it the eggs in one basket thing is an indirect effect.

safety... well we don't have to rehash that old chestnut.

Harvard: The MICHIGAN of the East

We're not arrogant, we're just better.

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 2:14 PM #34
The Squid
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In what way was Mallet

In what way was Mallet questionable? Depending on who you listen to, he was either the #1 or #2 QB in the country his senior year. When Henne got injured and there was no other reasonable backup (thanks to Forcier's transfer), Mallett, a true freshman, got put on the field and promptly played like a true freshman. No surprise there.

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 2:01 PM #35
markgoblue
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Sooo..

Where are the bullets?

We don't need fate, we have five.

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 1:45 PM #36
caup
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I like MichiganAggie's suggestion

Lots of revisionist history the last couple of years over at BGS is humorous, pathetic, and a bit worrisome.
Let's let the dust settle on 2008 and then establish some fair and reasonable benchmarks for the 2009 season. This will also help combat the whole "Irrational Expectation Syndrome."

Go Blue

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 1:44 PM #37
brown
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I'm hopeful we'll get to 6-6

I'm hopeful we'll get to 6-6 next year, but what if we only get like 5 wins and miss a bowl game again? What is considered significant enough progress?

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 1:59 PM #38
rainking
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6-6

that's what I'm wondering. what's "enough" progress? By the way the Freep is reporting mcguffie is staying

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 1:41 PM #39
tdeshetler
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All things in prespective...

I agree with the general direction of this conversation, and want to add one additional point. Firing Rich Rod in 3-4 years will create in essence a black hole for Michigan football. Why would you allow the new regime time enough to fully have a system incorporated, then pull the plug before you see the results? If that happened, the football program would be looking at many more years of transition and hardship.

Tommy Amaker got 6 years before Bill Martin decided to head into another direction. Even though the situation is different, hopefully, Bill Martin will give Rich Rod the same curiously (Though I don’t think he’ll need it.)

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 1:39 PM #40
mspeters
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Thank you & keep it up

Brian,

Keep harping on this as much as is needed. The ave fan / alum does not think through these things like you (and by extension we) do. I shudder to think of what the folks that have Bill Martin's ear are saying to him.

The effects of Antonio Bass's treacherous knee being treacherous can not be overstated, IMO. IIRC, he was to be Henne's backup, not Mallet. Imagine how would a junior Tate or Beaver would have done in place of Sheridan. Bass was a 4-star also...

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 1:37 PM #41
MichiganAggie
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I agree Brian that RichRod

I agree Brian that RichRod needs time to implement his system and that 2009 will not be a BCS year.

That being said, there should be some type of non-subjective s (wins/losses, yards per play, margin of victory/losses, etc) for progress made in the 2009 season, prior to the beginning of the season. That way, we can't look back retrospectively at the beginning of the season and try to spin any potential disaster.

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 1:37 PM #42
ColoradoBlue
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Positive mail campaign...

Someone suggested this in a post last week, but I think it deserves reinforcement: with all the flack that RR is taking on right now, it probably wouldn't hurt for us level-headed types to shoot him a line or two of encouragement via snail mail.

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 1:43 PM #43
evenyoubrutus
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That's a good idea

Where would we send that?

Not that I loved Lloyd less, but that I loved Michigan more.

http://www.beersmith.com/

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 1:52 PM #44
Yostal
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Address

Coach Rich Rodriguez
Athletic Department
University of Michigan
1000 South State Street
Ann Arbor, MI 48109-2201

Remember, hand written letters are always appreciated more than typed ones, shorter notes are more likely to be read, general statements of support trumps specific mentions of improvement, and don't give them any reason not to hand the envelope over to him.

Craig Barker || The Hoover Street Rag || Twitter

"The Michigan fanbase: a cynical, Eeyorish bunch even in the best of times."--Doug Gillett

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 1:38 PM #45
rainking
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Mail

I'd do that

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 1:36 PM #46
Orion
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Wow

I agree with every word of this post

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 1:36 PM #47
rainking
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those with patience

i'm worried that if he goes 7-5 next year it won't be considered "good enough" and they'll be calling for his head

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 1:35 PM #48
slaunius
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Economics

You're forgetting rule #1 of Laymen's Economic Theory.

Most people LOVE to consider sunk costs. Listen to people talk...whether about financial decisions or, yes, coaching ones: they make very little distinction between sunk costs and variable costs. It's simultaneously hilarious and frightening.

(OK, maybe it's not rule 1, but it's certainly up there.)

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 1:32 PM #49
drewsharp64
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heres to going 6-6 next year

heres to going 6-6 next year and making the motor city bowl so i dont have to drive to california for the rose bowl again. like kevin mccalister says, why would i want to spend winter in a tropical climate anyway?

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Posted on: November 24th, 2008 at 1:22 PM #50
Jebus
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I didn't believe before

I do now, after having watched the OSU game in person. I could see it. OSU is going to be obsolete, and we will own them. I have my concerns about the defense, and I will need to see changes in schematic, but the offense is going to be just fine. Once we have the ability to stretch the field a bit, and draw those DB's/LB's back into coverage, there will be large chewy bits of turf to snack upon, as we haul ass up and down the field. There is no way that the LB will be able to make the play in single coverage, out there on the island, as they are confronted with someone like Shaw or Odoms moving at warp speed. I get it now.

Also- should any of you talk to RR, please do pass along this message: After the way my wife and I were treated by those troglodytes who call themselves OSU fans, if, when we get good again, RR pulls back on the throttle the slightest bit against OSU, then he should be fired during the game. If we do not beat that team 150-0 and make their armada of douchebag fans weep and gnash their teeth and pull out their mullets, then I will be sorely displeased. I want to make them see the offense in their worst nightmares.

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