State Of The Site, Late 2013 Comment Count

Brian

keyboard_bash[1]This is obviously meta.

I may or may not do something like this again, but UMHoops does 'em and they seem like a good idea. Since I've mentioned my general dissatisfaction with the way things have been going around here in a couple of different formats, I figure a fuller explanation is due to everyone who doesn't listen to the podcast or care about Twitter, and Twitter was about six sentences anyway.

I've gotten a lot of emails and tweets in support and while I appreciate them a great deal, I feel like it's not really all that bad and perhaps I haven't expressed any of this clearly enough. So here's an attempt.

THE BAD THING

one-flew-over-the-cuckoos-nest-11[1]

We moved servers just before the season, and for some reason this imploded the Drupal module we were using that did the voting/comment-graying. Don't get me started on that unless you want the animated gif above to be my fate.

The new server is a champ, and was direly needed. We only blew up during the Hand commitment aftermath, and I guarantee you that the blog would have been crushed four or five other times during the year if we had not moved. At times this has been a mixed blessing—it probably would have been nice to be down after Penn State—but having your internet site on the internet is a goal.

The cost was steep, as without the obvious disapproval provided by your comment shrinking into a gray box, dumb comments multiplied and fights about those comments multiplied since there was not an obvious indicator that other people had already dismissed it. I felt this would happen but had very little time to do anything about it since this event happened smack-dab in the middle of me pounding out the 50k-word season preview.

Flaming went up, signal got obscured, and things veritably roiled.

THE BLOWUP

We brought Brandon on board to be a recruiting reporter and he posted an interview with a 2016 kid; he gave us a picture in which he looked pretty young. I thought nothing of it because I follow hockey closely and there kids who don't have to shave commit all the time. (A kid born in 1998(!) just committed. The OHL speeds up their timelines.) Michigan just took a 2016 commit in football, and has a half-dozen offers out. But this resulted in a comment thread in which a lot of people made jokes about the kid not having to shave; others put on their Serious Issue faces and wondered if this was ethical. Then the prospect posted a screenshot of people making fun of him on twitter. SMH, man.

By this point we'd had a lot of crap on the board and this was a seeing-red moment. I posted a thread about how this was unacceptable, etc., whereupon there was a huge comment thread in which concern trolling featured heavily. The ethics of talking to high school kids about where they might go to college was frequent topic.

This was and is ridiculous. We're not about to Rosenberg these kids, both because we're not [REDACTED] 5'2" [REDACTED] goobers who'll do someone dirty to get ahead in the world and that going Rosenberg on someone would completely crush us with our readers, deservedly.

We're going to ask them softball questions and publish them after correcting any spelling mistakes, and you, the reader, are going to post comments like "Good luck wherever you go!" because that's the social contract we have here. That's how this works. You are going to assume that high school kids are going to read anything they can about themselves online, and we're going to throw Charmin at them in slow motion. This is not hard-hitting journalism here.

Anyway. The primary concern troll was a guy who'd been around since the very beginning of the site, chitownblue. He quit in a huff once, then came back as chitownblue2, and almost never appeared except to chide someone about something. At some point virtually everyone who writes for the site complained to me about him. The rest of the people who had posted things that broke the social contract in that thread quickly apologized; he dug in to fight the battle of the Somme. Another complaint about him happened in the midst of that thread, during which my dander was up and finger already hovering over the button. So I banned him, and various compatriots. And I've had an itchy trigger finger since.

They'd been around forever. I regret nothing, except that I waited so long. I hated that guy.

THE ISSUE

A friend sent me this post from 4chan's founder in response to similar issues he'd had, in which he cites another post from Steve Pavlina about why he shut his popular forums down. Pavlina talks a lot about entitlement of longtime users and standards that he felt weren't being met, both of which I kind of feel. But moot's thing is the thing:

Something that’s always surprised me is how often people seem to forget how large the overall 4chan community is outside of their own respective interaction with it. Some simply don’t care, but I think others plain don’t realize they’re just one of millions of people who post and browse 4chan on a monthly basis. …

My view is that it simply isn’t possible nor prudent to attempt to please everyone, and so I don’t. This can be misinterpreted as not caring, but it’s far from it—it’s just a reflection of my belief that the needs of the community outweigh the needs of individuals. Which is an ideal I think most would agree with, but when emotions run wild and tensions run high, we often lose sight of it.

The general rule of thumb is that 10% of your readers will read the comments/forums and 1% will leave most of them. I believe our numbers are quite a bit higher than that, but even so that the the primary thing that happens in the comments is lurkers reading them. From the perspective of the commenters these people do not exist. From my perspective, they're the majority of the readerbase.

Most of these people seem to like the site. They visit it. That majority has not been reflected in the comments. Of late when people recognize me I wince a bit, because I'm not sure how this interaction is going to go. I'm kind of waiting for someone to unload on me. This never happens.

As the season's gone along this disconnect has become apparent. And I'm finding the complaints harder to deal with because with the demise of voting so many of them have become personal attacks hardly sheathed in anything resembling logic. Brandon just took a lot of crap for posting that usually when recruits are open with him that means they're excited about Michigan and Malik McDowell was tight-lipped, which may not bode well. This exploded into controversy for some reason: that reason is there are a bunch of people who just complain about everything about the site.

IT'S NOT YOU, IT'S ME

Why these people can't let go and do something else, I don't know. They're locked in a prison of their own devising, being miserable about the state of the blog while they make it worse by constantly complaining about it.

I am going to help both these folks and myself escape from purgatory by hitting the eject button on them. Like this guy who has 41,000 points, most of which seem to be accumulated complaining about the site. And this guy. Great news for everyone: they're banned. Now they are free to explore the rest of the internet, perhaps to find something they don't hate.

This represents a policy change. In short, that is: if the people who write for this site hate you we will ban you. That is the upshot of the twitter burst and the podcast thing. This is not really a change for most people since we did that for anyone with a few points who came in guns blazing. This mostly applies to folks like guy I just banned who'd accumulated the third-most points on the site. I hated that guy! For three years! And out of some idea about respecting the community I let him fart all over it.

To respect the community, we should ban jerks, even if they've been around so long that it seems that there must be some redeeming value in having them around.

If you don't like the way the comments are laid out, or you think there should be more jumps, or fewer jumps, or have a substantive disagreement with what I think, or even have argument-free opinions I roll my eyes at every six months or so, fine. I have to get to know you to loathe you. All you people are good. In fact, here are protips to not get banned under this new regime:

  1. Don't have an avatar. You're less likely to get noticed.
  2. Don't be a jerk to people who write for the site. Much more difficult that #1, but still doable if you try.
  3. Don't constantly complain about the people I hire. If you want to send me an email, fine. Publicly crapping on the other guys who write for us is filed under jerk.
  4. Don't get mad at me for having a particular emotional state. This happened constantly throughout the season, as if the internet tough guys who were taking the bullets the season threw at them could somehow improve my mood by berating me.

I can understand how the last few years have put people in a place where they find me irritating after once enjoying the site, but all the comments in the world aren't going to be able to change what is primarily a sports blog about what it feels like to be a Michigan fan. If you feel differently, okay! I accept that you feel differently. If you want me to feel like you, that is an argument you are welcome to have anywhere else.

It's been a trying year for everyone, and I'm about to go figure out how to get the damned voting back on comments, so hopefully things will recede from this, their irritating zenith. Thank you to everyone who did not expect me to be an emotional clone of themselves this year, which is like 99% of you. I enjoy you.

-Brian

Comments

Huntington Wolverine

December 6th, 2013 at 2:30 PM ^

It's kind of like 'church-league' (anything). People run their mouths and pull cheap shots because they assume the other guy won't throw a punch or call them out. Pull that stuff with a bunch of strangers that don't have peers or family they're trying to behave in front of will get you put down. 

MGoLow

December 6th, 2013 at 2:13 PM ^

As another "guy-who-hardly-ever-posts-but-reads-every-day," this is music to my ears. I had pretty much given up reading the board and was just sticking to front-page stuff while hiding the comments. Thanks Brian and crew!

so bored at work

December 6th, 2013 at 2:15 PM ^

In the experience of those who write for/read this site, are the policies Brian wrote about today harsher, more lenient, or about the same as most other team-specific CFB sites of a similar nature?  My limited forays onto other team sites have generally given me an even greater appreciation for MGoBlog so I'm inclined to say most others are more lenient, but that could just be a variety of biases at work.

 

 

markusr2007

December 6th, 2013 at 2:21 PM ^

Also, thanks for posting Pavlina's comment, because man, I can apply and use that in my day to day work.  There's probably a lesson there for everyone.

For example, I know a lot of people in their work who are so goddamned worried about pleasing everyone that they go crazy, and drive others to the same state, and actually end up producing shitty results.  The bold is obvious to most, but it resonated with me today, so thanks man:

Something that’s always surprised me is how often people seem to forget how large the overall 4chan community is outside of their own respective interaction with it. Some simply don’t care, but I think others plain don’t realize they’re just one of millions of people who post and browse 4chan on a monthly basis. …

My view is that it simply isn’t possible nor prudent to attempt to please everyone, and so I don’t. This can be misinterpreted as not caring, but it’s far from it—it’s just a reflection of my belief that the needs of the community outweigh the needs of individuals. Which is an ideal I think most would agree with, but when emotions run wild and tensions run high, we often lose sight of it.

jayballs

December 6th, 2013 at 2:24 PM ^

Honestly, Brian's staffing choices say everything: He is never in the press box, at the press conferences, press events, etc... HE IS NOT PRESS. He is a fan.  Eveyone else (Heiko, Ace, etc.) attend with credentials and do the "actual reporting." This is deliberate, and it's wonderful.

Bang up, job, everyone at MGoBlog. Keep it up.

Kalamablue

December 6th, 2013 at 2:28 PM ^

and I agree.  I always felt that some people thought Brian can't do certain things, when in reality, this is his blog, he can do whatever the hell he wants.  Just because someone trolls this blog for a decade to accumulate more points than there are hours in that time span does not mean their opinions are valid.  

The FannMan

December 6th, 2013 at 2:25 PM ^

Hello?  

Did I get banned?

/slowly peeks over desk.

The one caution I have on this is that there needs to be some room for disagreement.  The downvoting and greying is great for flaming posts and trolls, but it also allows two people (or someone with two accouts) to remove a comment that they disagree with just because they disagree with it.  For example, any post suggesting that Borges should not be immediately shot on the diag would be greyed out, no matter how reasonable and non-jerky it is presented.  This promotes an echo-chamber effect.

On the other hand, the new tougher ban-hammer rules may allow differing views more room.  Often minority views get shouted down pretty hard and rudely.  These new rules should prevent that. 

Magnum P.I.

December 6th, 2013 at 2:31 PM ^

This isn't about disagreement. It's about people being consistently, arrogantly, flippantly contrarian about everything and especially about Brian's work. It's as if Brian were a college professor who teaches a discussion heavy course in which a handful of students challenge and tear down everything he says.

There's discourse, disagreement, and then there's bull-headed, annoying contrarianism. Concern trolling. I'd kick you ass out of my class.

The FannMan

December 6th, 2013 at 3:34 PM ^

Did it really seem that way to you? I don't read everything so I might have missed it.  Also,  I had one of those two on my ignore list anyway so I just never read his comments.  Maybe that's why some of this is going over my head.

Let me give you my, admittedly limited, experience.  I am in the "its not all Al's fault camp."  This goes against the grain here.  I've tried to explain my points thoughtfully only to be told to STFU in just about as many words by other commenters (never had any such experience with an author or mod). There was never any counter points, just one sentence posts claiming I was a moron or wanted Michigan to suck at football (huh?), etc.

I guess my point is that I would like this to be a site where folks can respectfully disagree with Brian or Seth or anyone else without having their comment greyed out or being shouted down.  I see Brian's post as a step toward that which I think is great.  

lbpeley

December 7th, 2013 at 7:39 AM ^

the whineasses that constantly bitch about Brian or BB or the "downhill trend" of the site in general. Especially since those posters were definitely contributing to that perceived trend as much as the ones who just come to troll. I realize other minority opinions do get a good rogering most times. I didn't intend to diminish that fact.

WestQuad

December 6th, 2013 at 2:27 PM ^

The comments on M Go Blog with the old filters were half of the reason I came here.  It was a tough year to be a Michigan alum/football fan (after a number of disappointing years), the flame wars/trolling this year have been like salt in the wound.   Please ban people as you see fit.   I will keep my head down so as not to be banned.

snake oilz

December 6th, 2013 at 2:30 PM ^

(as you can tell by my now-defunct username and point total) but wanted to sign in today and give the site staff a pat on the back and an ecookie. yum...

well done, keep up the good work

Huntington Wolverine

December 6th, 2013 at 2:33 PM ^

It is impressive to me that you have built this blog from the ground up during some of the most difficult years of Michigan fandom while navigating various other life transitions (getting married, etc).

Thanks again for you work. 

ruraljuror

December 6th, 2013 at 2:35 PM ^

been an avid reader of the site since 2008 and just recently decided to comment. This last year has been a tire fire among commenters. I don't have a twitter account but it seems as though this place has taken on the tone of a twittersphere thunderdome lately. Go Blue.

Eck Sentrik

December 6th, 2013 at 2:39 PM ^

I actually spent more time on Twitter than the blog this season. Twitter allows you to recieve content from only those you want, save a few random "sponsored ads". I start seeing foolishness on my timeline I can simply stop following the idiot(s).

 

I do look forward to spending more time on here again when the dust settles.

UMCoconut

December 6th, 2013 at 2:37 PM ^

Your point about doing what's best for the community is spot-on.  When you accumulate enough people's attention on anything, there will be nay-sayers and jerks.  In many cases, they are being contrarian for the sake of it.  But hopefully you realize that vast majority of people who frequent your site do so because they appreciate and love the content.

Keep up the good work!

DakotaBlue

December 6th, 2013 at 2:37 PM ^

As a frequent lurker, and rare poster, I am with you.

And I want to say "hear, hear" when it comes to talking about recruits.  We may think of this site as just a place to talk about our favorite university's teams, but what we say as fans reflects upon the school.  If we look like a bunch of jerks, these kids will go elsewhere when it comes to making what is a very big decision in their life.  

Skunkeye

December 6th, 2013 at 2:37 PM ^

I used to read all the comments and used to happily do my part to send the jerks to Bolivia and upvote things that made me smile or laugh or think.  Once the voting system changed, things started to get a lot worse as posting a lot became more important than posting only quality.  When that voting system went away, not much changed but things got ever worse to the point that I usually wasn't able to read past the first 5 comments on any new thread.

Hopefully, a new voting system will be in place again that will encourge thoughtfulness in every comment.  Where people will understand that even a dumb post like, "I agree", will cause them to lose their precious points.  Lacking such a system, I fear that the comments will remain what they have become and that is the unreadable drivel of people that like to hear themselves talk but nobody really wants to hear from.

My fingers are crossed that the one working voting system that I've ever seen will return.  If not, I guess the comments will stay off-limits for me.

bo_lives

December 6th, 2013 at 3:00 PM ^

BBrown has undersevedly had to take a lot of crap, and this will likely stop it.

On a side note i always wondered how that guy got so many mgopoints...