State Of The Site, Late 2013
I may or may not do something like this again, but UMHoops does 'em and they seem like a good idea. Since I've mentioned my general dissatisfaction with the way things have been going around here in a couple of different formats, I figure a fuller explanation is due to everyone who doesn't listen to the podcast or care about Twitter, and Twitter was about six sentences anyway.
I've gotten a lot of emails and tweets in support and while I appreciate them a great deal, I feel like it's not really all that bad and perhaps I haven't expressed any of this clearly enough. So here's an attempt.
THE BAD THING
We moved servers just before the season, and for some reason this imploded the Drupal module we were using that did the voting/comment-graying. Don't get me started on that unless you want the animated gif above to be my fate.
The new server is a champ, and was direly needed. We only blew up during the Hand commitment aftermath, and I guarantee you that the blog would have been crushed four or five other times during the year if we had not moved. At times this has been a mixed blessing—it probably would have been nice to be down after Penn State—but having your internet site on the internet is a goal.
The cost was steep, as without the obvious disapproval provided by your comment shrinking into a gray box, dumb comments multiplied and fights about those comments multiplied since there was not an obvious indicator that other people had already dismissed it. I felt this would happen but had very little time to do anything about it since this event happened smack-dab in the middle of me pounding out the 50k-word season preview.
Flaming went up, signal got obscured, and things veritably roiled.
THE BLOWUP
We brought Brandon on board to be a recruiting reporter and he posted an interview with a 2016 kid; he gave us a picture in which he looked pretty young. I thought nothing of it because I follow hockey closely and there kids who don't have to shave commit all the time. (A kid born in 1998(!) just committed. The OHL speeds up their timelines.) Michigan just took a 2016 commit in football, and has a half-dozen offers out. But this resulted in a comment thread in which a lot of people made jokes about the kid not having to shave; others put on their Serious Issue faces and wondered if this was ethical. Then the prospect posted a screenshot of people making fun of him on twitter. SMH, man.
By this point we'd had a lot of crap on the board and this was a seeing-red moment. I posted a thread about how this was unacceptable, etc., whereupon there was a huge comment thread in which concern trolling featured heavily. The ethics of talking to high school kids about where they might go to college was frequent topic.
This was and is ridiculous. We're not about to Rosenberg these kids, both because we're not [REDACTED] 5'2" [REDACTED] goobers who'll do someone dirty to get ahead in the world and that going Rosenberg on someone would completely crush us with our readers, deservedly.
We're going to ask them softball questions and publish them after correcting any spelling mistakes, and you, the reader, are going to post comments like "Good luck wherever you go!" because that's the social contract we have here. That's how this works. You are going to assume that high school kids are going to read anything they can about themselves online, and we're going to throw Charmin at them in slow motion. This is not hard-hitting journalism here.
Anyway. The primary concern troll was a guy who'd been around since the very beginning of the site, chitownblue. He quit in a huff once, then came back as chitownblue2, and almost never appeared except to chide someone about something. At some point virtually everyone who writes for the site complained to me about him. The rest of the people who had posted things that broke the social contract in that thread quickly apologized; he dug in to fight the battle of the Somme. Another complaint about him happened in the midst of that thread, during which my dander was up and finger already hovering over the button. So I banned him, and various compatriots. And I've had an itchy trigger finger since.
They'd been around forever. I regret nothing, except that I waited so long. I hated that guy.
THE ISSUE
A friend sent me this post from 4chan's founder in response to similar issues he'd had, in which he cites another post from Steve Pavlina about why he shut his popular forums down. Pavlina talks a lot about entitlement of longtime users and standards that he felt weren't being met, both of which I kind of feel. But moot's thing is the thing:
Something that’s always surprised me is how often people seem to forget how large the overall 4chan community is outside of their own respective interaction with it. Some simply don’t care, but I think others plain don’t realize they’re just one of millions of people who post and browse 4chan on a monthly basis. …
My view is that it simply isn’t possible nor prudent to attempt to please everyone, and so I don’t. This can be misinterpreted as not caring, but it’s far from it—it’s just a reflection of my belief that the needs of the community outweigh the needs of individuals. Which is an ideal I think most would agree with, but when emotions run wild and tensions run high, we often lose sight of it.
The general rule of thumb is that 10% of your readers will read the comments/forums and 1% will leave most of them. I believe our numbers are quite a bit higher than that, but even so that the the primary thing that happens in the comments is lurkers reading them. From the perspective of the commenters these people do not exist. From my perspective, they're the majority of the readerbase.
Most of these people seem to like the site. They visit it. That majority has not been reflected in the comments. Of late when people recognize me I wince a bit, because I'm not sure how this interaction is going to go. I'm kind of waiting for someone to unload on me. This never happens.
As the season's gone along this disconnect has become apparent. And I'm finding the complaints harder to deal with because with the demise of voting so many of them have become personal attacks hardly sheathed in anything resembling logic. Brandon just took a lot of crap for posting that usually when recruits are open with him that means they're excited about Michigan and Malik McDowell was tight-lipped, which may not bode well. This exploded into controversy for some reason: that reason is there are a bunch of people who just complain about everything about the site.
IT'S NOT YOU, IT'S ME
Why these people can't let go and do something else, I don't know. They're locked in a prison of their own devising, being miserable about the state of the blog while they make it worse by constantly complaining about it.
I am going to help both these folks and myself escape from purgatory by hitting the eject button on them. Like this guy who has 41,000 points, most of which seem to be accumulated complaining about the site. And this guy. Great news for everyone: they're banned. Now they are free to explore the rest of the internet, perhaps to find something they don't hate.
This represents a policy change. In short, that is: if the people who write for this site hate you we will ban you. That is the upshot of the twitter burst and the podcast thing. This is not really a change for most people since we did that for anyone with a few points who came in guns blazing. This mostly applies to folks like guy I just banned who'd accumulated the third-most points on the site. I hated that guy! For three years! And out of some idea about respecting the community I let him fart all over it.
To respect the community, we should ban jerks, even if they've been around so long that it seems that there must be some redeeming value in having them around.
If you don't like the way the comments are laid out, or you think there should be more jumps, or fewer jumps, or have a substantive disagreement with what I think, or even have argument-free opinions I roll my eyes at every six months or so, fine. I have to get to know you to loathe you. All you people are good. In fact, here are protips to not get banned under this new regime:
- Don't have an avatar. You're less likely to get noticed.
- Don't be a jerk to people who write for the site. Much more difficult that #1, but still doable if you try.
- Don't constantly complain about the people I hire. If you want to send me an email, fine. Publicly crapping on the other guys who write for us is filed under jerk.
- Don't get mad at me for having a particular emotional state. This happened constantly throughout the season, as if the internet tough guys who were taking the bullets the season threw at them could somehow improve my mood by berating me.
I can understand how the last few years have put people in a place where they find me irritating after once enjoying the site, but all the comments in the world aren't going to be able to change what is primarily a sports blog about what it feels like to be a Michigan fan. If you feel differently, okay! I accept that you feel differently. If you want me to feel like you, that is an argument you are welcome to have anywhere else.
It's been a trying year for everyone, and I'm about to go figure out how to get the damned voting back on comments, so hopefully things will recede from this, their irritating zenith. Thank you to everyone who did not expect me to be an emotional clone of themselves this year, which is like 99% of you. I enjoy you.
-Brian
December 6th, 2013 at 6:38 PM ^
Thank you for this, Brian.
December 6th, 2013 at 6:43 PM ^
While not new to Michigan sports I am relatively new to MGoblog. I discovered this site during the coaching search which led to Brady Hoke (3 years ago, very few posts). I loved this site back then. The posts were so clever, funny, informative and just a pleasure to read.
Of late the site has not been fun. Too much attitide. Too much Mlive type commentary.
Thank you for making changes to hopefully take this site back to being fun to lurk within again.
December 6th, 2013 at 6:47 PM ^
Looking at MGoBlog is a joy. I love the insight, the details and fandom. I’m sorry that some people cannot filter their comments.
My wife is a pediatric psychologist. She helps people with social communication like impulse control, maturity, thinking about the other person, sharing their feelings, being appropriate, non-verbal communication, inference, etc. Most of her clients are people with issues like ADHD, social anxiety or people on the autism spectrum, like Aspergers. Most men under the age of 50 could use her help.
She is willing to provide counseling to those MGoBlog readers, posters, and banned posters. Some people can help themselves and others need help.
I’m interested in a healthy community and I support Brian in his quest for a bully free, social, emotionally mature blog site. Hail to the Victors.
December 6th, 2013 at 6:53 PM ^
December 6th, 2013 at 6:53 PM ^
Brian, look at the bright side.......the blog isn't as bad as RCMB!?
I forget, was the Upvote/Downvote system in place when RollDamnTide accidentally outed himself?
December 6th, 2013 at 7:01 PM ^
All sounds good to me. I don't expect you to be my emotional clone Brian, but you are. So much so it's eeire sometimes, so I'm happy when the mind meld diverges.
December 6th, 2013 at 7:07 PM ^
but you can ban it.
I've been here a long time, but don't speak often since, like this post, I don't have much to say that adds value, but I'll say this: I'm with you completely Brian.
December 6th, 2013 at 7:19 PM ^
Leave the bodies where they lie....the birds will do their work.
December 6th, 2013 at 7:21 PM ^
December 6th, 2013 at 7:25 PM ^
When I first came to this site, the comments were almost as good as the main articles. There were very insightful, and respecful people, it was a (mostly) friendly community. I often learned as much or more from the comments than I did from anything Brian wrote (no offense to him, because his stuff has always been great, but that's how just how great it used to be).
There were also great tangents, conversations that just went way off the rails, but in a good way (the isn't it ironic discussions, etc) instead of in a personal attack way. I read most of the comments on most posts becuase that was part of the fun.
That has really changed. I now usually skip the comments becuase it's mostly bad, and it takes a lot to sort though the crap to find the gems, and it's not worth it.
I know part of it is just because of is a curse of success, the more people come, the more likely there are bad apples. But I hope part of it is the moderation system, voting, etc, and we can at least get some improvement.
So, I guess I'm saying thanks Brian. Thanks for everything you do for the site, and thanks for trying to make is the best it can be.
December 6th, 2013 at 7:22 PM ^
December 6th, 2013 at 10:04 PM ^
I love lamp.
December 6th, 2013 at 7:27 PM ^
I found myself visiting far less often and that is the true measure, eh? One thing I really couldn't tolerant was the smart ass remarks to any observation or opinion. I remember a post where it was mentioned whether Morris should see the field if Gardner stayed on his path of turn-overs. Legit question. At what point in the game do you think about that move? The fourth interception? The sixth straight punt? No sooner than posted and the guy was just blasted ruthlessly. Sarcasm for days. It was a huge turn off.
December 6th, 2013 at 7:31 PM ^
Mild sarcasm is ok, but situations like that went way too far, and happened too often.
And once someone responds with appropriate sarcasm or humor, we don't need 15 other people to pile on.
December 6th, 2013 at 7:35 PM ^
by posters or staff?
December 6th, 2013 at 7:32 PM ^
Dear Brian: Thank you. If I met you in public I would say it again. This is the best Michigan-related site and it is because of how you do things.
December 6th, 2013 at 7:43 PM ^
I'll get it started, please add as necessary. Maybe some part of these can become "official"
1. Don't be a dick.
2. No personal attacks.
3. If your post adds nothing, don't post.
4. If 5 other people just said the same thing you are about to say, then don't say it.
5a. It is possible to disagree with respect. In fact, it is now mandatory.
5b. If someone is disagreeing with you, it is not necessarily a personal attack. Do not react as if it is.
December 6th, 2013 at 11:42 PM ^
December 6th, 2013 at 7:40 PM ^
As a long time lurker, I wanted to post my honest opinion so you can understand the view point of one of the people you are making assumptions about.
I love this site and think it is just as good as it was at this point one year ago.
However, Brian, this post and many, many posts this year (including your comments in the Bradon 2016 recruit thread) make you sound like an asshole.
I respect your opinion immensely because you make it your job to understand the topic we all come here for. Keep writing about Michigan football and stop reacting to the comment section.
Thanks very much for the content you provide, keep up the good work.
December 6th, 2013 at 7:47 PM ^
December 6th, 2013 at 7:58 PM ^
Although I created this account as a tongue-in-cheek-jab at the disappearance of the posbang, I meant it in jest and I actually kinda like you. Please don't ban me.
</insurance>
December 6th, 2013 at 8:20 PM ^
December 6th, 2013 at 8:24 PM ^
December 6th, 2013 at 8:28 PM ^
I think the hardest thing for most people is to be able to disagree respectfully. We all have different opinions that we have developed from our own perspective which is different for everyone. Some focus on facts, some focuse on experience in coaching, athletics, or the like, some have inside information, while some focus purely on emotion and the eye test of what limited knowledge they have from watching interviews and games on TV. For the most part, no one wants to be disagreed with or feel like they are not as smart, not as knowledgable, or wrong about anything. No one wants to lose an "argument". And, on the other side of that it can also be difficult to tactufully disagree with someone whom you believe and/or know is wrong. Put these ideas into a blender and often what comes out of any disagreement is a pissing match.
December 6th, 2013 at 8:38 PM ^
Brian = Rick ?
December 6th, 2013 at 8:54 PM ^
December 6th, 2013 at 8:55 PM ^
December 6th, 2013 at 9:17 PM ^
One of my best friends in Ann Arbor is good friends with Brian, so either through the actual site itself or through him, I have been aware of what's going on here for 3-4 years now. I never actively perused the comments or even visited the site on my own until the past year or so. I would either get interesting links to articles here or I would discuss them with my buddy. Of course over time I became curious, and started lurking here around the summer of 2012 on my own every other day or so. Then I started to also reading the comments. It was pretty great. In the past I have been part of too many discussion threads in various locations (other college boards, Facebook, etc.) that were simply giant trash cans that I was wasting my time in. But as I continued lurking here, I found that the primary difference here is that 90% of the comments are meaningful. There are very few, if any, people that misspell words or have poor grammar, or generally provide useless one-liners ("yah michigan go win :D:D everyone else SUX!"). Also, I never felt like comments get "swallowed up" here. Too many places, (and y'all know where I'm talking about), your comment will get engulfed in 20 seconds without anyone being able to digest it, after you probably spent 15-20 minutes on it. So after seeing how insightful and how much great back-and-forth banter there was that was relatively peaceful, I took the plunge and signed in. I try to use the rule of thumb of "if I can't contribute anything good/useful, don't contribute at all" (which is why I didn't come on until just recently), but I have tried to be useful and insightful whenever I do post. But like many others have observed here, the condition of the comments section seemed to deteriorate over time. I feel like I can disagree with you all day without letting it ruin my whole day and being sullen about it, but most people are not like this. They want you to just think what they think, and anyone who doesn't is flat out messed up, and they will utilize every ounce of strength they have to try to convince you to think what they think. That seemed to be happening more often here in the past year or so than ever. I happened to log in here tonight and saw Brian's post, which I read in its entirety, and I just found myself doing fist pumps and mouthing "yes" the entire time. This is too good of a place to resemble a YouTube comment thread. Good move, Brian. Let's all move on and talk some M.
December 6th, 2013 at 9:38 PM ^
wonder how many people are holding a gripe because of Brian's love of the spread? I mean, I disagree with him, I love the manball attack, it's been a proven winner for power programs. But I wouldn't dislike someone for not feeling the same, a bit of an overreaction.
December 6th, 2013 at 10:08 PM ^
But I also appreciate what the spread can do for you. It's a common misnomer that spread = pass happy and finesse. But Auburn runs the spread...and runs out of it, and is quite good at it. Manball is not for everybody, and the spread is not for everybody. I personally think that the spread is not for Michigan, and manball plays to their strengths better. But that's just me. That doesn't mean I don't think Michigan shouldn't EVER line up in a spread formation, but I don't think it should be their philosophy or identity.
December 7th, 2013 at 12:06 PM ^
I think it cuts both ways. There are spread zealouts and spread haters and both seem indifferent (at best) or hostile (or worst) to opposing views. I don't really understand why it's such a cause for battle; there's more than one way to move the football. But for whatever reason, some people (Brian included, honestly) are really worked up about this.
I guess this may be a continuation of the RichRod disputes, although if it is, I think it's missing the point - people who felt his firing was justified (I was one) mostly did not think so because of his offense, but because of everything else. Offense was the main reason to keep him around.
December 6th, 2013 at 9:40 PM ^
December 6th, 2013 at 9:43 PM ^
Brian, as many have said above, you and the mgostaff run the best site on the internet. Thanks for doing what you do.
December 6th, 2013 at 9:54 PM ^
I am the wife of an enthusiastic Wolverine fan, and I enjoy reading your site from time to time. What I don't enjoy is that fraction of the 1%-- those commenters you mention, who command so much space, time and energy of the rest of us... not to mention the ridiculously generous gift they receive of a *free and easily accessible totally public platform,* because you kindly provide that for them. I can't stand those noisy, obnoxious, too-much-free-timers. So, I created an account tonight just to say to you, Brian (and I'll probably never post again):
Clap
Clap
Clap
Clap.
It's AWESOME that you did this. I just wish that mass media - the legitimate publications, anyway - would take note and follow your example. Why should every asshole with a loud opinion be allowed to voice it on/in someone else's space? Those folks can feel free to send all the emails and letters they wish, or publish their own blogs, or print their own newsletters and hand-deliver them to neighbors. But why should YOU provide them a forum? You shouldn't.
Good job.
December 6th, 2013 at 10:07 PM ^
December 6th, 2013 at 10:12 PM ^
As one of the longer-tenured posters here, I'm happy Brian is voicing his opinions and doing what he wants to with the site. I agree that banning certain long-time posters for being, let's say "catankerous", might be a bit draconian, but that is Brian's choice and, to be honest, it didn't much seem like they enjoyed posting here much. Now they can create new accounts, comment as they wish, and see how it all shakes out. There are numerous other sites that talk about UM sports in this world, and I'm sure they can find a more receptive audience at one of them if they are unhappy with the conditions at MGoBlog.
My issue with the decision isn't so much people's claims of a hive mind starting here, because that feels like a weak slippery slope argument that reads to me as "I don't like people disagreeing with ME, though I'm fine with them disagreeing with someone else." I recognize that any place can become an echo chamber, but I've dealt with enough people around here saying it's raining even though I can see the raised dog leg above me to know that sometimes people just have their opinions, man, and they are not going to change them regardless of reality. It has a great deal to do with the ownership issue Brian brought up, and that's why I've never felt too attached to this site as some voice for the voiceless. I come to the calming shores of MGoBlog for a break from life and to discuss a sport culture I am part of; it is also the employment (and passion) of Brian and his staff. They have a vested interest in it representing themselves; I'm just a yahoo who was too lazy to create an avatar and now can slink under the radar.
It was a trying season and I think the board reflected that; the lack of voting allowed issues to fester that have always existed but are usually pushed aside or hidden by early responders. I'm happy it will be back, and I'm guessing most of the contentious issues we've seen this season will disippate as a result. I do hope the site doesn't become too ban-happy, because good conversation is essential; I doubt it will become an issue, as Brian seems pretty even-keel. And if the winds do shift and it becomes undesirable around these parts for me, I'll move on. But I'm happy that Brian has put his feelings and plans in print so that everyone is aware of how this great site will continue to mature and grow.
December 7th, 2013 at 9:32 AM ^
"I don't like people disagreeing with ME, though I'm fine with them disagreeing with someone else."
When the one disagreeing with you is a guy with his finger on the ban button calling you a hated, falsely-entitled jerk, maybe that is a valid statement.
December 7th, 2013 at 1:33 AM ^
I always thought the M in M-Wolverine stood for Michigan. Not long ago, I found out it stood for Mike.
His name is Mike.
December 6th, 2013 at 10:59 PM ^
December 6th, 2013 at 11:01 PM ^
December 6th, 2013 at 11:14 PM ^
December 6th, 2013 at 11:31 PM ^
There would be no problems with the Site! Everyone would be happy. Well one of these years we will be 11-1!
December 7th, 2013 at 3:53 AM ^
That's loser talk! No loss is ever acceptable!
(To those of you who haven't yet caught on to this new thing the interwebs has introduced called satire, /s.)
December 6th, 2013 at 11:25 PM ^
- Charlie Cheswick
December 6th, 2013 at 11:29 PM ^
I don't know if you plan on going back to max/min upvoting, but if you go back to how it was just previously, I'd like to at least be able to upvote and downvote a little more. Not for points but because if someone makes a really dumb comment, I'd like that comment to get down to -5 or so, so that it's harder for them to be upvoted and ungrayed.
Warnings about being close to getting banned may be helpful, but I'm also thinking that might just look like some perceived threat from a mod and people might get pissed off about threats like that.
I downvoted BBrown's last post because he had some thing at the end talking about what idiots were going to post in the comments, which really just invites trolls. It's basically like saying "come at me, brah!"
December 7th, 2013 at 12:24 AM ^
I will miss him.
December 7th, 2013 at 12:45 AM ^
Even though I've also had my disagreements with M-Wolverine, I thought he was a great poster whose comments were worth reading.
He and I are similar in that we are both very blunt, and that can rub some people the wrong way. At times it might come across worse than what was intended, but I don't mean anything by it and I doubt he did either.
Sometimes all it takes is for someone to say, "Hey, you're coming across as a pretty huge dick, TheLastHoke," and I'll re-read what I wrote, say to myself, "Wow, yeah...sorry about that," and try to be more self aware in the future.
My personal opinion is that I didn't see anything in the BBrown thread that merited a ban.
Brian disagrees. It's his blog, so he wins.
I honestly think this is less about any individual poster and more a result of Michigan sports being pretty awful to follow and cover of late. If we are 11-1 and playing in the Big Ten title game in 9or so hours I doubt any bannings take place because we'd all be too busy counting our wins and laughing about it.
December 7th, 2013 at 12:54 AM ^
loved this thank you. i had no idea why the graying out of the trolls ceased and appreciate the update. i don't always agree with you and enjoy needling you when i don't, but you have always been beyond witty when responding making me wish i could write like you ("when they first came for my STRONG TAKES, i said nothing..." - that was so good dude) and i check in every day so you are doing something right. But i cannot wait for the days when most if not all of my comments are grayed out. Rasta Brian.
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