So, About Shea Patterson Comment Count

Brian

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LaQuon Treadwell rebate, come on down? [Bryan Fuller]

Yo. Bolded alter-ego. Get in here.

what

So here's this:

Multiple well-placed sources have confirmed to the Ole Miss Spirit today that quarterback Shea Patterson has been granted permission by Ole Miss to talk to other programs about potentially transferring. Patterson and Ole Miss executed what is termed a "permission to contact" form on Friday, according to those sources. ...

Well-placed sources also told the Ole Miss Spirit that Michigan is probably the favorite to land Patterson, if he does execute a transfer from Ole Miss.

FWIW, Patterson's release bars him from SEC schools and other teams on Ole Miss's schedule the next two years.

What?!

Yeah.

I have questions.

Shoot.

I thought Patterson wasn't immediately eligible?

By the letter of the law he's not. The NCAA automatically grants a free transfer to anyone whose eligibility expires before a post-season ban does, but since Ole Miss just got one extra year only their rising seniors are 100% free and clear to leave. Patterson is going to be a junior.

However, it would make zero sense for Patterson to transfer to Michigan if he did have to sit out a year. If Patterson isn't immediately eligible he'd enter 2019 as a redshirt junior at a school with an entrenched starter who's either in the same class (Peters) or younger (McCaffrey). Therefore we have to assume there's a path to immediate eligibility in the world where Patterson does come to Michigan. This section of the NCAA rulebook that comes immediately before the "if your eligibility is covered by a post-season ban you can transfer free" section might be it:

14.8.2.1 Residence Requirement. The one-year residence requirement for student-athletes may be waived under the following conditions or circumstances: (Revised: 7/24/12) ...

For a student-athlete who transfers to a member institution after loss of eligibility due to a violation of the regulation prohibiting pay for participation in intercollegiate athletics (see Bylaw 12.1.4) or a violation of recruiting regulations (see Bylaw 13.01.1), or for a student-athlete who transfers to a Division I institution after loss of eligibility due to involvement in a violation of the freshman or transfer eligibility requirements for financial aid, practice and competition set forth in Bylaws 14.3.1, 14.5.4 and 14.5.5. The Management Council may waive these requirements only upon a determination of the innocence or inadvertent involvement of the student-athlete in the violation.

I'm not sure what a "loss of eligibility" means in this context. It seems clear that this section is designed to let players leave after specific sorts of NCAA violations, as long as they're innocent of them personally. FWIW, in 2003 all Baylor basketball players were eligible to leave immediately after the Bliss scandal. That's... uh... maybe a sui generis kind of thing, but the NCAA only banned Baylor from the postseason for one year.

In this specific case, Ole Miss's desperate attempt to keep the program together might backfire on them. Safety Deontay Anderson sat this year out and is now petitioning for immediate eligibility—he's even using Houston Nutt's lawyer!—because Ole Miss lied to him about the investigation:

According to Mars, Anderson claims that both Freeze and Bjork indicated that the NCAA investigation would not have a negative impact on the football program and that the bulk of the alleged violations pre-dated Freeze’s arrival, which was proven to be false. Those statements were allegedly made both in a group setting during Anderson’s recruiting visit on Jan. 29-31, 2016, and in private meetings with Freeze, including one instance where his father Michael Anderson implored Freeze to tell the truth about the severity of the allegations and potential penalties.

Ole Miss did not publicly release its first Notice of Allegations until May of that year.

According to Mars, Anderson submitted to the NCAA that he would not have signed with Ole Miss had those statements not been made.

“...in that individual meeting with Coach Freeze on Jan. 31 Mr. Anderson very emphatically asked to just tell the truth about the nature of the allegations and what the implications could be.

“Mrs. Anderson vividly remembers that, and so does Deontay and it underscores how important it was to all these student-athletes and their parents to get a full understanding of what the situation was and it underscores how unconscionable it was for them to be told anything less than the truth.”

If—when?—Anderson gets that waiver that should open the floodgates for the entire 2016 class. If Michigan gets Shea Patterson because Hugh Freeze was lying to everyone and people, including purported journalists, believed him, you will hear the deep rumble of my evil mastermind laugh from sea to shining sea.

Uh... is Patterson going to be eligible? I mean, #1 QB in the class of 2016 decides on Ole Miss?

Patterson wasn't implicated in any of the violations. And Ole Miss hired Patterson's brother Sean immediately after Patterson committed. That, rather than some money to keep mom's lights on, was likely the impetus to go play for Hugh Freeze. These days high-end QB recruits are often from affluent families that can afford the camp-trotting and intensive coaching; the Pattersons were probably focused more on the pot of NFL gold at the end of the rainbow than anything up front.

FWIW, like Devin Bush Sr., Sean is a legitimate football coach. He had analyst/QC roles at LSU and Arizona before his move to Ole Miss, and was a three-year starter at Duquesne prior to that. I'd bet a dollar that if Patterson transfers Sean will come along in a similar non-coaching role.

And you're fine with this?

I think players should be paid. I also think people should follow the rules laid out for them, and advocate to change them if they feel the rules are wrong instead of seeking personal advantage by breaking them under the table.

But what about Peters... and McCaffrey?

The major downside of taking Patterson is what it might do to Michigan's already desperately thin collection of QBs not currently in high school. Brandon Peters had a promising start to his career, and might take badly to Harbaugh importing a guy just when the depth chart opened up for him. While Patterson's a big fish, losing Peters would be a blow. I'm not sure maybe one year of Patterson backed up by McCaffrey is preferable to certainly two and maybe three years of Peters.

Any transfer in would be a delicate situation. Michigan's best approach might be emphasizing that Patterson wants to be a one and done; if that's the case than Peters's situation is basically identical to what it was with Speight around: competing for the job and maybe getting blocked for one more year.

McCaffrey's extra year means Patterson won't be as threatening to him; don't think it would impact him much.

Any other dudes we could pirate away? Especially tackle-shaped dudes? Please tell me there's a tackle-shaped dude.

The big fish is of course Greg Little, the former five star who was PFF's third-highest-graded SEC OT as a true sophomore. Little has given no public indication that he's on his way out, has no connection to Michigan, and doesn't have a brother in coaching that helps explain why on Earth he'd go to Oxford. He is in that 2016 class that might be set free, though, and if dude is thinking about heading to the NFL after 2018... I mean. It could happen! Shut up.

We've received some intel that Michigan is interested in one of Ole Miss's wide receivers. Sophomore AJ Brown, PFF's top-rated SEC WR, led the conference with 75 catches for 1200 yards this year and is also in that 2016 class; junior DaMarkus Lodge caught 41 balls for 700 yards and is definitely free and clear to transfer as a rising senior. We think it's Brown but aren't clear on that. (Correction: we think it's Van Jefferson.) While Michigan has a lot of upcoming talent at WR they have maybe one established outside WR in Donovan Peoples-Jones and could not turn up their nose at Brown.

Michigan has no other spots of glaring need and doesn't have a lot of room to play with—this recruiting class is going to be smallish—so it's unlikely they go after anyone who doesn't directly address QB, WR, or OT.

Is this actually happening? These things get talked about all the time and they never ever happen.

This one looks like it's actually happening. Patterson and the WR in question are tentatively scheduled to be on campus this weekend. That's much farther than these rumors usually get.

Comments

Jasper

December 4th, 2017 at 1:24 PM ^

Some good MGoBlog posters are nervous about this. I'm not completely sure why.

As the writers (the ones who buy digital ink by the digital barrel) would say, Harbaugh was hired to win games. I'm sure he's playing the long game and I'm pretty sure he's not stupid. I don't see him taking Patterson if it will screw up the program in the medium term.

Aside, it's a near certainty that some writers are going to spin this as "HARBAUGH DESPARATE!!!"

MotownGoBlue

December 4th, 2017 at 12:58 PM ^

If Harbaugh thinks we have a better chance of winning with Patterson in 2018, then we take Patterson, end of story. A dynamic QB sparking the offense is very likely the difference between an 8-4 participant and 11-1 championship caliber team. A great season in 2018 only helps us, going forward.

go16blue

December 4th, 2017 at 1:01 PM ^

I hate to be a downer here, but I thought Peters was largely mediocre in his few starts. He didn't mess up much (which granted was a huge improvement) but also didn't do anything so special that I'd be convinced that he's The Guy. A lot of people seem shy about Shea because they want to see Peters lead us for the next few years. All I'm saying is I'm not entirely sold, and I'll take a promising new QB if I can get one.

GeorgetownTom

December 4th, 2017 at 1:16 PM ^

Agree. His numbers were largely in line with Speight's 2017 numbers. No one seemed upset when Speight transferred. Peters was fine, certainly nothing special. 

Further, to those worried that it might upset the current QBs, consider this:

If Peters wins the job next season, he's the starting QB for at least 2 and probably 3 more seasons. That leaves McCaffery with only 1, maybe 2 seasons to start. Very unlikely that he sticks around. Alternatively, McCaffery could end up beating Peters for the job this offseason and seizing control of the starting job for the next 2-3 seasons. Peters is then likely transferring out.

bronxblue

December 4th, 2017 at 1:02 PM ^

I will be in the minority, but Michigan doesn't need Patterson. They need good blocking. Brown I'd be fine with because he'd bring some experience to the WR set. But wasting another year teaching a guy this offense and possibly screwing over established cohesion for it seems unnecessary.

bronxblue

December 4th, 2017 at 6:28 PM ^

I'm not going to re-litigate this, but I'd rather they use this available scholarship for a lineman than give one to, apparently, a 1-year rental on a guy who might be no better than the guy you already have on the roster and could very well lead to said guy leaving.

OL are lottery tickets, and I'd rather play that game than have yet more uncertainty at the QB position.

jefemono

December 4th, 2017 at 1:03 PM ^

Firstly, I'll preface by saying that I do feel bad for Peters.  That being said,  I know it's cliche, but Harbaugh is trying to build competition to make everyone better.  A true meritocracy.

Secondly, Speight and Peters aren't that different of QBs.  I know it's an over-generalization, but they stand in the pocket, and use their arm to make accurate throws. 

Recently, it seems that Harbaugh is moving toward recruiting more "mobile" QBs.  Perhaps Harbaugh is realizing the flexibility that a "mobile" QB can offer in an offense with glaring weaknesses (i.e. RT). 

bronxblue

December 4th, 2017 at 1:21 PM ^

This is the same argument I saw with O'Korn, and it never made sense then and doesn't now either.  Patterson has been charged with 88 carries in his career for a total of 153 yards, or about 1.7 ypc.  Sure, some of those are sacks, and he's a bit more mobile than Speight, but I don't think he's demonstrably different than Peters.  Both are elusive enough but aren't guys who are going to run the ball 15+ times a game successfully.  Their scouting reports both said about the same.  I think Patterson has a better arm and might be a touch more accurate downfield, but I think Peters is a bit more heady and is about 2 inches taller and a bit bigger overall, which has it's advantages when looking for receivers.

 

bronxblue

December 4th, 2017 at 1:57 PM ^

I see a guy who runs around a bit and has a good arm.  Their 40 times coming out of HS were about the same (4.8-ish), and Peters is a bit taller.  I said he's faster than Speight, but I don't see "Manziel 2.0" beyond "seems to throw the ball a bunch into traffic" and "can run around a bit".  

Again, those are highlights of his last 3 games as a freshman.  I just don't see a major improvement over Peters, and a major downside of teaching ANOTHER guy this offense and taking away snaps from the current QB's who need them, while possibly also driving a guy who looked pretty good this year away.  

Sure, would having the #1 QB in a class help?  Yep.  But those benefits were best in 2016, and the farther we get away from that the less valuable having a guy for a year is.

taistreetsmyhero

December 4th, 2017 at 2:50 PM ^

I just don’t agree that he is anything similar to Peters or Speight. And O’Korn was a generic 3-star recruit. The downsides are potentially killing locker room chemistry, spooking away current and potential future QBs, and having to teach this guy a whole new playbook in a system not specifically designed for his talents. But the kid is absolutely a huge talent.

bronxblue

December 4th, 2017 at 6:33 PM ^

He's not like Speight, but Peters was the #4 QB in that class and Patterson was #1.  And Peters was playing for his HS team and not really doing the whole camp thing, while Patterson was at IMG and going to all the gurus, so I guess I'm a bit leery that this might be his ceiling (at least in college) compared to Peters.  

He's better than O'Korn; I never said he wasn't.  But I stand by my statement that he isn't a demonstrably better talent than Peters within the context of a single year; he's thrown the ball a lot more because he's had to, but I don't think one year of him is better than Peters.

bronxblue

December 4th, 2017 at 6:42 PM ^

I guess, but he was sacked something like 16 games in the 5 games he played P5 teams.  And as I noted elsewhere, he didn't run the ball particular well (basically 1 ypc on a couple dozen carries).  

He's a good QB.  But I've seen nothing from him that shows me he's so much better than Peters that (a) he'll still be better after the inevitably transition costs going to a new team and system, and (b) disrupting the current maturation of your current starting QB and (possibly) other players on the team or in recruitment.

kevbo1

December 4th, 2017 at 1:03 PM ^

There are no guarantees with Peters and McCaffrey, and if Peters gets hurt you are starting a RS freshman. We simply can't be in that position.

stephenrjking

December 4th, 2017 at 1:26 PM ^

Peters may decide a year sitting out at a school he has a future in is better than a year sitting on the bench behind a carpetbagger on a team he no longer thinks he has a future with. 

People who argue that Peters will be fine with this are basically giving reasons why he should do what they want, which is stay at Michigan. That's fine, but he won't necessarily agree with that reasoning. 

stephenrjking

December 4th, 2017 at 1:50 PM ^

An invitation to visit is irrelevant. An accepted transfer is something significant. But Harbaugh may believe Peters won't get it done. Or he may not really know what they'll do. Speight's transfer blindsided him; he's not clairvoyant and we've seen that he has a "strap it up and compete" attitude that might not connect with some players on a personal level. 

Maynard

December 4th, 2017 at 3:13 PM ^

Harbaugh likes him a lot. Any notion of this invitation to visit being irrelevant can be dismissed. If he could have gotten him to commit when he met him at IMG he would have.

I am a huge backer of BP and thought/said all year that he should be #2 to Speight and then when Speight went down, he should be #1.

That being said, watching both of them play over the years I am fine with either. However, Patterson was the better QB of the two and probably still is. If you want continuity I certainly understand that position and the fear of Peters transferring is valid. He might. I think he may have already been on the verge in the recent past. But if you are looking for the best team next year, it's enticing to bring in Patterson and let them compete. My guess is Patterson wins the job in that situation.

Blue In NC

December 4th, 2017 at 1:50 PM ^

I have seen this repeatedly and it is a possibility.  Also a possibility is that McCaff beats out Peters in the spring, so Peters transfers then we have no backup besides a true freshman.  People need to remember that Peters has not really solidified the #1 role.  He won a battle for the #2 job and started a couple of games.  That is it.

ChiBlueBoy

December 4th, 2017 at 1:10 PM ^

1) Adding a solid QB with obvious talent and experience as a starter for a solid team makes sense.

2) Concerns about Peters seem overstated (correct me if I'm wrong on any of the following): a) To transfer, Peters would have to sit out a year; b) Peters had planned on having to compete with Speight anyway; c) even if Patterson does start, Peters has an extra year of eligibility vs. Patterson, and Patterson could well leave after one year, freeing up 1-2 years after Patterson is gone.

3) Competition in everything--I don't think JH worries much about athletes who leave because they don't want competition. Might bring out the best in Peters.

Mattb_22

December 4th, 2017 at 1:12 PM ^

Crazy prediction with no stakes because no one will ever remember I made it, possibly not even me:

If Patterson indeed transfers, I think Peters beats out Patterson for the starting position next year.

Due to:

- More time in the system.

- Peters being a better fit for the system

- Reportedly, (When I say "reportedly" it means I heard this from a college football analyst but don't remember who said it) the Ole Miss offense was very simple. The learning curve for Patterson will be steep.

- Most of all, Peters was pretty dang good during the limited time we saw him.

 

 

 

JachZackson04

December 4th, 2017 at 1:14 PM ^

If this hurts your feelings or Brandon Peter's, then so be it. I want the best players to come in and compete so we can get some hardware.  We have beaten OSU 3 times in 17 years. Think about this, if your kids were born in 2000 they have only seen Michigan beat OSU one time (that they can remember). Take a second and let that sad fact sink it(shit, I have only seen them win 5 times) . It's almost embarrassing that anyone would not want Shea Patterson to enroll  (if he even comes/is eligible immediately). I'm 25 years old and the thought of not seeing Michigan play for a national championship in my lifetime has crossed my mind. Stop living in the Cooper years and get with reality. It has been straight up embarrassing to be a Michigan fan and that is just the way it is. Neg away......

Kermits Blue Key

December 4th, 2017 at 1:34 PM ^

You sound a little butt-hurt yourself champ. Trust me, there are a lot worse things that could happen to you in your lifetime than not see Michigan win a national championship. Now, I myself was at the 97 Rose Bowl, so I wouldn't know what that feels like. But, I digress...

Perkis-Size Me

December 4th, 2017 at 1:22 PM ^

What I keep telling myself is that this is not some no-name kid from Dipsy-Doodle State that Harbaugh is looking to bring in. He's the #1 QB from two years ago. As a fan, all I sit there and say is if he's the difference between Michigan beating OSU and not, grab a hold of him and don't let go. If he is that much of a difference maker, a leader, and he wants to be here and is willing to put in the time and effort, if he understands that he has to earn the job and it won't be handed to him, get his ass to Ann Arbor. 

But as a player I can see how this might rub some guys the wrong way. Peters in particular. He finally got his chance this year, looked like he was far and away the best option Michigan had, the offense finally started generating some momentum, Peters' path to starting in 2018 busted wide open with Speight transferring, and now some hotshot five star transfer could come in and take his job away. And let's make no bones about it: wherever Patterson goes, he's going there to start. 

Of course Peters has to know he's got the earn the right to start every week, but there's a difference between competing against guys Harbaugh recruited along with you, and competing against transfers. I have to wonder what that does for team cohesion if it seems like it's a new guy running the offense every year. What does that do for recruits when they look at Harbaugh's teams and see that he is just going to bring in transfers to start? At what point do you have to just trust the guys you have and stick with them? It's not like bringing in a hotshot wideout, RB or DE where you can still easily rotate guys in and out. You've got one QB, and if you're rotating there, that means you're in trouble. 

Harbaugh will do what he thinks is best, and as long as whoever is the QB next year gives Michigan the best chance to win, that's all I can ask for as a fan. 

Perkis-Size Me

December 4th, 2017 at 3:20 PM ^

Of course. If Patterson is that much of an upgrade over Peters, most everyone will find a way to get over it. But I hope that if Patterson does come here, it is because he really does prove to be that much better. And that's a tantalizing thought for Michigan's offense, because Peters looks like he'll be pretty damn good himself if he gets the chance to start on a long-term basis. 

You'd just hope that if he does come here, it's a Russell Wilson-esque transition where it's clear from Day 1 that he's "the guy" and the whole offense appears to rally around him. Granted transfers almost never work that way, but one could hope. 

buddha

December 4th, 2017 at 1:22 PM ^

If Patterson wants to come here, bring him in. If he can bring Little with him too, it's a slam dunk.

I honestly don't know why so many posters here have put all their eggs in the Peter's basket. Peters played 3.5 games; only 0.5 games against "meaningful" competition. During those games, he ran and executed a fairly vanilla playbook that heavily relied on the run. Peters has thrown just north of 60 passes in his college career; and, of those passes, something like ~10 were completed to Wide Receivers. That's it...

Peters obviously has an upside, and I'm excited to see it. But, let's be honest, Harbaugh and Co. had such little faith in Peters that he sat behind JOK as a third-string QB mid-way through the season.

Here's what Harbaugh is staring at next year. We have a brutal schedule. We play our three most-important rivals all on the road. We play two major programs at home as well (two teams that beat us this year)...and we return a grand total of 3.5 games of QBing experience.

The chorus is already pretty loud that Harbaugh "can't win the big one..." He's 1 and 5(?) against OSU and MSU now. He's lost games in incredibly flukey ways...but - honestly - a lot of those flukes came from atrocious QB play.

Our Defense is going to great next year. Our skill players are that much older and should take a sizeable leap in development. Aside from OT (which is a major red flag), our O-Line looks okay (good, not great). The biggest question mark is QB...

If you are Harbaugh, are you going to put all your faith in a QB that hasn't played a full road game? A QB that has thrown only 60ish passes in his college career? A QB - that by his own statements - "[wasn't] ready" this season after he's been in the program for two years already!

That's a major gamble when a blue-chip, 5* recruit is possibly knocking down your door. A kid that has played meaningful competition in the most challenging conference in the country. Seems like a pretty easy choice, if I am Harbaugh and Co...

ChuckieWoodson

December 4th, 2017 at 1:45 PM ^

I read through all of the comments and was torn until I read this one.  Very well written and points made and agreed upon.

If Peters was a Junior and had a great year already under his belt, I think you can make the case of "wtf, why bring in a guy now?" But he is NOT proven.  You can't put all the eggs in the Peter's basket and hope he's what you want him to be.  If he's not, the team is not in a good spot.  While I'd sympathize with Peters a bit in this case, it's a clear choice this would make the team stronger.  If you can get him... get him. 

buddha

December 4th, 2017 at 1:57 PM ^

Totally agree.

I would 100% sympathize and be empathetic to Peters' situation. I'd be pissed if I was him.

Having said that, from a big picture, the loss of Speight really stings. Peters was going to go toe-to-toe with Speight all offseason either way, and - honestly - I'm not sure Peters would have won. Who knows...that's prognostication.

Either way, I think when Harbaugh lost Speight to transfer - looked at our schedule next year and lined that up to our roster of QBs - he had a major "oh sh*t" moment. I know I would have...

The decision to bring in Patterson is really not a hard one if you put yourself in Harbaugh's shoes and look at the situation he's facing both objectively and holistically. It does however suck if you are Peters.

ChuckieWoodson

December 4th, 2017 at 2:56 PM ^

Right.  Not only is the schedule tough, but with all the issues the Oline has had, as much as it pains me to say it, the probability of injury to a QB is higher as well.  So not only do you have unproven guys on the most important spot on the field, you have a higher chance that the 2nd string guy will play at some point in the year.  Getting Patterson, at a minimum, simply raises that floor.

Occam's Razor

December 4th, 2017 at 2:47 PM ^

This is exactly right. Shea is a gamer. You can just tell from the tape. Michigan needs that at QB. Peters hasn't shown that ability yet. 

You go with Shea and hope for the best. Nobody will care about this QB situation if Michigan wins the B1G next year. Nobody. It's about results and putting your best foot forward.