So, About Shea Patterson Comment Count

Brian

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LaQuon Treadwell rebate, come on down? [Bryan Fuller]

Yo. Bolded alter-ego. Get in here.

what

So here's this:

Multiple well-placed sources have confirmed to the Ole Miss Spirit today that quarterback Shea Patterson has been granted permission by Ole Miss to talk to other programs about potentially transferring. Patterson and Ole Miss executed what is termed a "permission to contact" form on Friday, according to those sources. ...

Well-placed sources also told the Ole Miss Spirit that Michigan is probably the favorite to land Patterson, if he does execute a transfer from Ole Miss.

FWIW, Patterson's release bars him from SEC schools and other teams on Ole Miss's schedule the next two years.

What?!

Yeah.

I have questions.

Shoot.

I thought Patterson wasn't immediately eligible?

By the letter of the law he's not. The NCAA automatically grants a free transfer to anyone whose eligibility expires before a post-season ban does, but since Ole Miss just got one extra year only their rising seniors are 100% free and clear to leave. Patterson is going to be a junior.

However, it would make zero sense for Patterson to transfer to Michigan if he did have to sit out a year. If Patterson isn't immediately eligible he'd enter 2019 as a redshirt junior at a school with an entrenched starter who's either in the same class (Peters) or younger (McCaffrey). Therefore we have to assume there's a path to immediate eligibility in the world where Patterson does come to Michigan. This section of the NCAA rulebook that comes immediately before the "if your eligibility is covered by a post-season ban you can transfer free" section might be it:

14.8.2.1 Residence Requirement. The one-year residence requirement for student-athletes may be waived under the following conditions or circumstances: (Revised: 7/24/12) ...

For a student-athlete who transfers to a member institution after loss of eligibility due to a violation of the regulation prohibiting pay for participation in intercollegiate athletics (see Bylaw 12.1.4) or a violation of recruiting regulations (see Bylaw 13.01.1), or for a student-athlete who transfers to a Division I institution after loss of eligibility due to involvement in a violation of the freshman or transfer eligibility requirements for financial aid, practice and competition set forth in Bylaws 14.3.1, 14.5.4 and 14.5.5. The Management Council may waive these requirements only upon a determination of the innocence or inadvertent involvement of the student-athlete in the violation.

I'm not sure what a "loss of eligibility" means in this context. It seems clear that this section is designed to let players leave after specific sorts of NCAA violations, as long as they're innocent of them personally. FWIW, in 2003 all Baylor basketball players were eligible to leave immediately after the Bliss scandal. That's... uh... maybe a sui generis kind of thing, but the NCAA only banned Baylor from the postseason for one year.

In this specific case, Ole Miss's desperate attempt to keep the program together might backfire on them. Safety Deontay Anderson sat this year out and is now petitioning for immediate eligibility—he's even using Houston Nutt's lawyer!—because Ole Miss lied to him about the investigation:

According to Mars, Anderson claims that both Freeze and Bjork indicated that the NCAA investigation would not have a negative impact on the football program and that the bulk of the alleged violations pre-dated Freeze’s arrival, which was proven to be false. Those statements were allegedly made both in a group setting during Anderson’s recruiting visit on Jan. 29-31, 2016, and in private meetings with Freeze, including one instance where his father Michael Anderson implored Freeze to tell the truth about the severity of the allegations and potential penalties.

Ole Miss did not publicly release its first Notice of Allegations until May of that year.

According to Mars, Anderson submitted to the NCAA that he would not have signed with Ole Miss had those statements not been made.

“...in that individual meeting with Coach Freeze on Jan. 31 Mr. Anderson very emphatically asked to just tell the truth about the nature of the allegations and what the implications could be.

“Mrs. Anderson vividly remembers that, and so does Deontay and it underscores how important it was to all these student-athletes and their parents to get a full understanding of what the situation was and it underscores how unconscionable it was for them to be told anything less than the truth.”

If—when?—Anderson gets that waiver that should open the floodgates for the entire 2016 class. If Michigan gets Shea Patterson because Hugh Freeze was lying to everyone and people, including purported journalists, believed him, you will hear the deep rumble of my evil mastermind laugh from sea to shining sea.

Uh... is Patterson going to be eligible? I mean, #1 QB in the class of 2016 decides on Ole Miss?

Patterson wasn't implicated in any of the violations. And Ole Miss hired Patterson's brother Sean immediately after Patterson committed. That, rather than some money to keep mom's lights on, was likely the impetus to go play for Hugh Freeze. These days high-end QB recruits are often from affluent families that can afford the camp-trotting and intensive coaching; the Pattersons were probably focused more on the pot of NFL gold at the end of the rainbow than anything up front.

FWIW, like Devin Bush Sr., Sean is a legitimate football coach. He had analyst/QC roles at LSU and Arizona before his move to Ole Miss, and was a three-year starter at Duquesne prior to that. I'd bet a dollar that if Patterson transfers Sean will come along in a similar non-coaching role.

And you're fine with this?

I think players should be paid. I also think people should follow the rules laid out for them, and advocate to change them if they feel the rules are wrong instead of seeking personal advantage by breaking them under the table.

But what about Peters... and McCaffrey?

The major downside of taking Patterson is what it might do to Michigan's already desperately thin collection of QBs not currently in high school. Brandon Peters had a promising start to his career, and might take badly to Harbaugh importing a guy just when the depth chart opened up for him. While Patterson's a big fish, losing Peters would be a blow. I'm not sure maybe one year of Patterson backed up by McCaffrey is preferable to certainly two and maybe three years of Peters.

Any transfer in would be a delicate situation. Michigan's best approach might be emphasizing that Patterson wants to be a one and done; if that's the case than Peters's situation is basically identical to what it was with Speight around: competing for the job and maybe getting blocked for one more year.

McCaffrey's extra year means Patterson won't be as threatening to him; don't think it would impact him much.

Any other dudes we could pirate away? Especially tackle-shaped dudes? Please tell me there's a tackle-shaped dude.

The big fish is of course Greg Little, the former five star who was PFF's third-highest-graded SEC OT as a true sophomore. Little has given no public indication that he's on his way out, has no connection to Michigan, and doesn't have a brother in coaching that helps explain why on Earth he'd go to Oxford. He is in that 2016 class that might be set free, though, and if dude is thinking about heading to the NFL after 2018... I mean. It could happen! Shut up.

We've received some intel that Michigan is interested in one of Ole Miss's wide receivers. Sophomore AJ Brown, PFF's top-rated SEC WR, led the conference with 75 catches for 1200 yards this year and is also in that 2016 class; junior DaMarkus Lodge caught 41 balls for 700 yards and is definitely free and clear to transfer as a rising senior. We think it's Brown but aren't clear on that. (Correction: we think it's Van Jefferson.) While Michigan has a lot of upcoming talent at WR they have maybe one established outside WR in Donovan Peoples-Jones and could not turn up their nose at Brown.

Michigan has no other spots of glaring need and doesn't have a lot of room to play with—this recruiting class is going to be smallish—so it's unlikely they go after anyone who doesn't directly address QB, WR, or OT.

Is this actually happening? These things get talked about all the time and they never ever happen.

This one looks like it's actually happening. Patterson and the WR in question are tentatively scheduled to be on campus this weekend. That's much farther than these rumors usually get.

Comments

In reply to by ijohnb

Mr Miggle

December 4th, 2017 at 2:45 PM ^

player.

At this point, we have plenty of reasons to look for another QB, something insiders said wasn't happening until Speight left. The reasons given for not taking Patterson are purely speculative, and I don't think are well founded.

If we're worried about keeping the team as a whole happy, winning is the best formula. If we're worried about recruiting generally, then again, winning will be the best thing you can do. If we're worried about QB recruiting, then putting QBs in the NFL will do the most good, not avoiding transfers. 

I think sending Rudock to the NFL was much better for our QB recruiting than anything else Harbaugh has done since he's arrived. No recruit cares that he was a transfer or if someone he beat out transferred away. Btw, weren't you making the same arguments against taking Rudock?

 

 

ijohnb

December 4th, 2017 at 2:56 PM ^

no.  Who the hell else were we going to play?  Morris?  O'Korn?  If I ever said anything remotely negative about bringing Rudock I would have to have been heavily intoxicated, because I thought it had to be done.  I don't want to look back three years at my posting history to confirm but I really, really don't think so.

Anyway, as to your points, I think that a series of unfortunate events transpired to put us in this scenario, but I don't think taking a transfer big shot is what this team needs right now.  There is no quick way out of the situation, no magic formula, this program needs to start developing QBs, not just pulling them out of the sky.  Right now, we have three big time arms lined up, starting with Peters right now.   We are not in a remotely similar situation to 2015.  We are kind of in exactly the situation that we wanted back then, we have young QB talent.  Quite a bit of it!  Bringing in Patterson would really upset the equilibrium in ways that I don't quite think you are fully considering.

In reply to by ijohnb

Mr Miggle

December 4th, 2017 at 6:37 PM ^

back then. I'm sure of that. I don't remember if it was over O'Korn or Rudock or both. I don't intend to go back and look it up either. In any case, keeping enough plausible QBs on the roster is important. Upgrading the position is important when you can.

We currently have a terrifying lack of experience back there. It's far from ideal if we don't make a move.

1VaBlue1

December 4th, 2017 at 12:30 PM ^

Can I just hunch my shoulders, rub my hands together, and say "oooohhhhhhhhhhhh!!  It's happening, it's HAPPENING!!!" 

Patterson will be instant, top-shelf competition at the QB spot.  Not sure how well he reads defenses, though, and that will go as far towards determining playing time as understanding the offense will.  And he will be behind both Peters and McCaffrey with the offense.  Nonetheless, if you can add the guy that finished tops in his QB class (and top 5 overall), you do it.

jamesjosephharbaugh

December 4th, 2017 at 12:32 PM ^

i feel bad for peters.  

 

i mean this might be a great move and a big catch, but i just feel bad for the kid.

M-Dog

December 4th, 2017 at 12:49 PM ^

Peters would have had to compete with Speight if Speight stayed. 

This is just the Speight role being filled (experienced upperclass QB on the roster).

Recall that Peters never actually beat out Speight, he only played once Speight got hurt and O'Korn was not the answer.

So it's not like there is anything tangible that Peters had in his hands that is now being taken away from him.

You can not expect to just start by default at a program like Michigan.

 

MileHighWolverine

December 4th, 2017 at 12:57 PM ^

I don't think that's a fair comparison. Competing with an oft injured and likely shell shocked QB vs. Patterson is a huge difference. Patterson looked better than Speight in limted playing time than Speight ever really did and now likely has permanent damage to shoulder/neck/back. That's not much competition for Peters. 

Blue In NC

December 4th, 2017 at 1:28 PM ^

Wait, what?  Speight was injured and Patterson is coming off injury.  

So you think Peters would say "coach, this isn't fair because you are bringing in a QB that is not injured as often as the previous guy"?  Interesting.

And what gives you the idea that Speight is permanently injured when he is transferring to play at another school?

MileHighWolverine

December 4th, 2017 at 1:52 PM ^

You think after multiple injuries/surgeries to his shoulder and then having "soft tissue" injury to his neck and back that he'll be 100% ever again? 

Pattersons injury was minor and he seems to be a much better QB than Speight. So, given the option, would you rather compete against a guy that no other power 5 school offered a scholarship to who has multiple shoulder injuries and is coming off a broken (or battered) neck or against the #1 QB who is your same age coming off a minor knee injury.

You don't think one situation favors Peters over the other? 

MileHighWolverine

December 4th, 2017 at 5:34 PM ^

This has nothing to do with fair or unfair. When all we have are 2 quality QBs on the roster with another talented but unproven QB coming in, yeah I worry about the backup who seems to be pretty good. Doing anything to upset the apple cart, at this particular junction, is worrisome to me because we need these guys more than they need us. Especially after seeing what bad QB play will do to the morale of the entire team.

We have two good guys, don't do anything right now to piss them off. Shea is not a guaranteed upgrade over what we have....definitely over Speight, but who knows what Peters can do if given the opportunity. Lets let him find out.

Blue In NC

December 4th, 2017 at 3:11 PM ^

Possibly but then again, Speight is the established starter that already beat out Peters and has more time in the system.  You may THINK that is a better situation, but I don't think it is so clear.

Also, what if McCaffrey wins the job?  Does Peters transfer or sulk?  If so, now you have a real QB problem with no way to solve it.

CLion

December 4th, 2017 at 1:02 PM ^

Peters may not have beat Speight out but he also certainly outplayed him this season and was enough of a threat to Speight that he transferred. It took extremely bad QB play for Peters to be given a chance and then outplayed the two QBs in front of him. He was on his way to getting the best win in Harbaugh's time here before getting injured. He's been patient and did the most he could with the time he was given. To now bring in someone else when it's finally his chance, well, I guess if that's what the coach thinks. But if I were Peters, I might look somewhere else.

CLion

December 4th, 2017 at 12:51 PM ^

I wouldn't blame him for transferring if Patterson comes in. Considering that risk, I'm not sure it's really worth it. I get that Patterson would likely be an upgrade, but I also am not sure how it would resonate with the team and future QB recruits.

NowTameInThe603

December 4th, 2017 at 2:28 PM ^

Its Hokes fault really.

And I dont get how this would resonate with future recuits. Stop being dramatic.

"Hey, coach you've taken 3 transfers since you took over the job. If I commit to play for you will I be given the opportunity to develop and see the field or will you take a transfer you trust more?" (BTW push hard for this kid to commit. The balls it would take to ask this question.)

"Ya the coach before me left the QB position in shambles. I needed to bring in depth and I think I made the right decision in bringing in Jake to start with us my first year. "My" first QB recruit is only a RS Soph. He is the backup and I have faith he can do the job if called upon. And I will be even more confident next year when he is our starter... Now do you have anymore brain busters dipshit." -Harbaugh

CLion

December 4th, 2017 at 4:23 PM ^

Coach, why don't you have faith in the RS soph you hand selected, who was also a major recruit, and who looked good in his audition this year? Why was he third string when he outplayed the two ahead of him? Because he isn't vocal enough? Do you run your program like an NFL team or like a team program dedicated to developing you men? 

Mr Miggle

December 4th, 2017 at 5:05 PM ^

what kind of offense we run, how successful we are and the depth chart. 

They aren't going to nitpick his decisions on when Peters was ready to play. And if they're driven away because they think an unproven, but promising player doesn't deserve more competition, then I don't think they're a good fit for Harbaugh.

yossarians tree

December 4th, 2017 at 12:33 PM ^

Obviously it would be nice to have Patterson for next season, but I'm not sure I like the smell of it vis a vis the the way it looks to the quarterbacks that we already have and their parents. These guys all take a look at the depth chart before they commit. To have it subject to fluctuation on a whim is bound to affect them and either lead to a transfer or at least be a word of caution to future recruits at the position. I understand that they are told they will have to compete every day, but this looks like carpet baggery to me.

M-Dog

December 4th, 2017 at 1:15 PM ^

That is the risk.  We've already had Rudock transfer in, and now we would have Patterson transfer in.

There are good reasons for this.  In both cases, there were / are no experienced upperclassmen that were viable QBs.  That's rare for a program like Michigan, and Harbaugh sought to address it.

But yes, the optics look bad.  It can look like Harbaugh is going to just chase every shiny object QB transfer that comes along every year. 

Harbaugh would need to make it clear that this is not the case, he is not going to just pull the rug out from an established, experienced upperclass QB. 

This is not the norm, it's a temporary phenomenon that is part of the still-in-progress rebuilding process.  

Um, assuming that is indeed true. 

We're not really sure . . . maybe Harbaugh just likes to collect QBs the way my wife likes to collect shoes.  May the best slingback win.

I wish we could say we knew. 

Let's face it, we don't really know what Harbaugh is up to.  Hopefully at least his QBs do.

 

 

Mr Miggle

December 4th, 2017 at 1:09 PM ^

When Peters committed who was he looking at on our depth chart? We had Speight, Malzone and Gentry all on track to be here next season. Two transfer, one changes position and the thought that we would try to replace one of them smells bad and will drive away future recruits.

That just sounds ridiculous to me. Any good coach at a good program would do just what Harbaugh is doing, if not more, to improve his depth chart.

BlueAggie

December 4th, 2017 at 12:56 PM ^

I know that Michigan is desperate for an elite left tackle, but personally, I'd strongly prefer not see Greg Little at Michigan.  While he wasn't directly implicated in the Ole Miss scandal, he was a long time A&M commit that suddenly flipped to Ole Miss when this guy took over his recruitment.  In A&M lore, he occupies a very similar place as Laquon Treadwell does in ours.

Blue in Paradise

December 4th, 2017 at 5:02 PM ^

because he MIGHT have done something despite not being implicated?  What is going on here?

Wasn't David Long a long time Stanford commit that flipped to Michigan?  Wasn't Grant Perry a Northwestern commit that flipped to Michigan?  Devery Hamilton was a long time Michigan commit that flipped to Stanford last minute?  Did he take money?

In today's recruiting world, guys are constantaly decommitting flipping.  How is that still a thing?

ScooterTooter

December 4th, 2017 at 1:07 PM ^

As someone already noted, Patterson was fairly garbage against good competition. Peters was better against Wisconsin than Patterson was against any of the name teams he faced and that was with the offensive line playing maybe their worst game of the season. 

Fezzik

December 5th, 2017 at 1:19 PM ^

What if Peters gets another bad concussion? That might be enough to consider taking a medical. Our LT is a complete unknown next year and our starting RT is already known to suck at pass blocking. Our QB(s) will get hit next year and get hit often. Relying on 2 guys (one with zero experience) for the whole season is a gamble you only take if you are forced to.

robpollard

December 4th, 2017 at 1:00 PM ^

I don't think they exist. Cardale Jones is the best example of a primo 3rd stringer, but he had not completed a pass before he was called on (and performed brilliantly) as a redshirt sophomore during OSU 2014 championship run.

Here are some top teams' (with very good QBs) depth charts. It's all freshmen.

http://www.ourlads.com/ncaa-football-depth-charts/depth-chart/usc/92269

http://www.ourlads.com/ncaa-football-depth-charts/depth-chart/penn-stat…

http://www.ourlads.com/ncaa-football-depth-charts/depth-chart/alabama/8…

http://www.ourlads.com/ncaa-football-depth-charts/depth-chart/ucla/92223

There's a reason for this. In today's NCAA, top talent (especially 2nd year and up top talent) doesn't want to be in 3 way QB battles. They move on.

 

robpollard

December 4th, 2017 at 1:19 PM ^

...after he got beaten out by Jalen Hurts last year.

Now, we as fans might want them to think "Well, this will be a learning process!  I'll work hard in practice and get better. Plus, maybe Jalen will get injured -- then I'll be able step up and help the team."

Nope. He was off to Arizona State before September was over. Bye-bye Alabama.

Top QBs (at least, those that think they are top) don't hang around and "bide their time" as third-stringers.

http://www.espn.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/108490/arizona-state-qb-blake-…

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2017/08/nick_saban_responds_to_blake…

Reader71

December 4th, 2017 at 2:15 PM ^

You’re absolutely right. But Alabama is also absolutely right to go with Hurts and let the backup transfer. Players are like money — there’s a time value, and good QB today is worth more than good QBs in the future. There’s also the fact that if the coaches were 100% comfortable with what we have now, they wouldn’t be considering transfers. And from a competition standpoint, if the guy doesn’t want to take a chance and compete, you let him go. I wanted Speight back, but he wanted to spend his last year elsewhere - good luck to him and we move on. Same for everyone else.

BornInA2

December 4th, 2017 at 12:35 PM ^

I think I'm ready for some stability and continuity at the QB position. Rudock was great for the second half of his season, when he seemed to finally get the offense. Rather than go through that again, let's just roll with Peters, who'd be in his third year in the system (sort of, with coaching changes). McCaffrey seems well-suited to backing him up. Behind them I don't know, but really, even though it happened this year, how often have we ended up starting our third QB?

Jasper

December 4th, 2017 at 1:19 PM ^

I understand that Patterson isn't a new HS recruit, but he has STARZ!

You like STARZ, don't you? (No need to answer; I know you do.) Michigan has an opportunity to get some (which, according to you, they must have if they're ever going to beat OSU). No problem, right?

CRISPed in the DIAG

December 4th, 2017 at 12:40 PM ^

I have a bad feeling about this if he actually enrolls.  Didn't Peters basically win his battle (to this point) when Speight received the firm handshake? And reportedly, didn't Speight get slightly pissed when Harbaugh (accordiing to Speight) told him after the FSU game last year that he'd be the "best QB in the country" in 2017, only to find himself in an open competition come spring?

Harbaugh will need to actively manage some egos. Maybe instead of "one of them good problems" this is "one of those bad good situations."