if you had told me before the play "this will end up with a contested 40 footer" i would have taken it gladly
Coaches' timeouts are worse. Basketball teams should get one, full stop.
Are we going to recap it? No. I'm pretty sure Tim is methodically hammering nails into anything small and fluffy he can find. We're going to dig out something that hasn't been seen around these parts in a year or two. It is the Dead To Me board. It has two new additions, the second of which is relevant.
Well played, 2009-10. Well played.
Here's a kitten:
We'll see you next week. Jesus.
if you had told me before the play "this will end up with a contested 40 footer" i would have taken it gladly
but that's sports for ya. probability seems to go out the window with certain players, especially if they are playing michigan.
The funny thing is, as the play was happening, I was thinking: "wow, with that lack of pressure they really should be catching the ball further up court. Thank god Matta can't coach."
i dont think beilein expected them to screen stu on the inbounds
I bet he did. You screen for the guy you want to get the ball on 90% of inbounds plays.
kind of just giving the benefit of the doubt but i think he expected a longer, mre hail mary pass
after all, with the short pass they made he barely had time to run up to 40 feet away
that may be, but then it just goes to show that both teams had terrible coaching in that situation.
With two seconds left, catching the ball that far in the back court is not a wise move. The shot he took was a very low percentage shot and if the clock had started on time, he probably pulls up from further away.
That being said, if you're expecting a long pass, there is no excuse for not putting someone on the inbounds man. Making any type of pass with a guy on you is tough, let alone one 50 feet up the court.
Finally, OSU set up in a manner that should have made defense extremely easy. Having a post player screen for Turner should have allowed for an immediate double off the ball. The post wasn't a threat to beat you from that spot on the court, even if left all alone.
You want to force the pass into the backcourt. We did that. I really think the biggest risk was the long pass, which can be done with or without a guy guarding the inbound passer, unless the inbound passer is underneath the basket. In this case, he had free reign of the baseline. I honestly think we played it properly. I think a lot of us are letting hindsight and a highly, highly improbable shot made by Turner cloud our better judgment.
we didn't force anything, they voluntarily caught the ball well in the back court. I said above, I don't think it was a good plan on OSU to settle for that shot, but to think that we played that well is absurd.
How they set up essentially took two guys out of the play (the screener and the inbounds man), to still only have one guy loosely covering the probable national POY is a HUGE mistake.
Here's the point, if you don't want to cover the in bounds man, fine (after seeing so many highlights of Hill to Laettner, I really don't understand this philosophy), but you at least have to make the receiver come back to the ball. Two seconds is enough time to get a not-horrible look if you can catch the ball going towards the basket, if you catch it going away from the basket, you're probably going to get an awful, rushed shot with a defender in great position.
The worst part about the whole play was that at the end of a game that by rights should have been two hours of misery, less than a minute after I jumped to my feet with a few other Michigan fans and several thousand sudden converts, I was viciously punched in the dong, and the ensuing paralysis left me unable to shield myself from the sight of far too many jackasses in scarlet and gray celebrating a game they did not deserve to win. (At least we were not actually in an OSU section, and unlike last year, there were not loud, drunk, obnoxious OSU fans directly behind us bragging about how they were loud, drunk, and obnoxious.)
I even saw the punch coming in slow motion: no one on the ball, Turner coming up court, lining up ... POW! Sudden, intense pain.
You're being way too kind.
What do you want Douglass to do? Foul him? That would've gone over well.
Not re: Douglass, but in the macro sense of not guarding the inbound or doubling Turner.
Nevermind, I'm arguing too fine a shade of gray for such a stupid loss.
A couple of thoughts are interrupting my productivity at work right now but the D on the final play is not one of them.
1. When someone steps up and becomes a third scoring option, Michigan can compete with anyone.
2. 40-footer FTW? Mother fucker........
Exactly- if you ask me, pre-play, I take that chance every time: Running full speed, pulls up from 42, with Stu running at him. I would take that EVERY TIME in that scenario. I mean, do you guys understand probabilities? Odds? Do you play cards? Do you just say "aww, the hell with it" and go with your gut all the time when doing so? Sorry- tangent there. My point is, it was the right play, and I am fine with him taking a 42 footer in that situation. Fine with it. Give him credit for hitting it.
He got as good a look as you can get from that distance. Literally, he couldn't have got an easier look.
So, no, I am not fine with him getting that shot. There was no defense played at all.
The odds are not as bad as you make them seem. I bet Evan Turner hits that exact same shot between 15-20% of the time. We should be able to limit a team to a worse shot when they have 2.2 seconds and the full length of the court to go.
A lot of your other comments, sure, but these?
My dong hurts!!!
I'm concerned I have taken one too many dong punches over the past 10 months.
The "world's largest group of living alumni" sustain too many dong punches over a short period of time. This, combined with their professional bent and responsible breeding results in a sharp decrease in numbers.
Meanwhile, Spartans and Buckeyes reproduce at alarming rates by the glow of burning couches and spent coolers. Soon the world devolves in to a mustachioed herd of natty light swilling barbarians.
A brahtocracy, if you will.
Replace "spent" with "poop-filled" and I'm right there with you.
"Why come you don't have a tribal tatoo?"
Your Idiocracy references are grossly being under appreciated right now.
...for the immediate dong-punch acknowledging post. For some reason it makes me feel better :-/
We've still got a hockey team to root for!
Call me an ignorant fuck, but what's preseason #2 Iowa?
And yes, I agree with Brian, well played '09-'10.
Brian went out on a limb, declaring a middling Iowa team as #2 in his preseason blogpoll ballot, after convincing himself Drew Tate was not full of mediocrity (an error, as it turns out). This was maybe 2006 or 2007.
Instead they were quite full of fail that year.
How does Beilin not double team Turner on that in-bounds pass when even Osama Bin Laden and the Dalai Lama knew the ball would go to him? That was absolutely AWFUL coaching. The one thing everyone's all excited about with this guy, and he fails miserably. In 2 seconds there is virtually no chance they can get an inbounds pass, leading to a second pass and a reasonable shot, so they should have left the in-bounder alone, double teamed Turner, and just kept a body on everyone else. BRUTAL.
That game was our best chance at anything meaningful in bball for years. OSU has the #1/#2 recruiting class coming in, MSU has the #7 class, and UM has the what, #80 class? With that massive coaching blunder at the end - allowing Turner to get the ball and a reasonable look - Beilin is a failure now as a recruiter as well as a coach. We'll keep him around a few more years with the good ole "hey give the good old guy a chance" camp, but it's over - this guy will not ever lead UM to even Wisconsin level in the Big 10, mostly due to his inability to adequately recruit.
Just triple team him and allow Lighty or someone else to get a 20 footer rather than a 40 footer.
Are you serious? OK good cop this while I go Dirty Harry. The UNIVERSE knew they’d go to Turner, and they only have 4 on the floor with an inbounds pass. The inbounder is too far to take a pass back in 2 seconds and loft anything even from half court. So you have 5 guys covering 4, and Turner goes almost entirely uncovered and uninterrupted in receiving a lengthy pass, easily jaunts, and is able to release a legit NBA plus range three point shot. I am sorry, but that was BRUTAL coaching. It was literally the ONLY detrimental scenario that could happen because all others at worse are a 2 pointer. My 8th grade coach could have bettered Beilin there.
that no matter how Beilein defended that last play only a miss would have kept him from being blamed.
There are many different ways to defend that play. The key is you cannot foul so that eliminates any kind of press man to man. I am sure that "DO NOT FOUL" was heavily emphasised in the huddle. This also why Douglass was a little farther off of Turner than what is ideal. You also want to make them dibble up the ball to take time off the clock, which they did.
Every coach you talk to is going to have a different theory as to how to best defend that play. Some will always pressure the inbounds pass. Some will lay back at half court. I just don't think you can say it was brutal coaching. Brutal coaching would have been to allow a half court pass with an easy 20 footer.
Disagree. Nothing in that final play showed any forceful decision by Beilin whatsoever. Just UM players passively near OSU players hoping the clock would be their only true defense. Beilin should’ve also known referees tend to eat the whistle in scenarios like this so as not to allow themselves to decide games, barring anything obvious. At the very least if you double Turner, it (a) adds confusion to OSU, (b) puts the game winner in an OSU player who didn’t expect to have to take it, and (c) gives Beilin credit for good coaching in case that other player makes the miracle.
guarding turner too closely brings the possiblity of fouling him 70 feet from the basket (particularly the way the second half was officiated), followed by him calmly draining two free throws and a 10-point overtime loss. if i'm beilein, i tell my guys that no matter, what, turner doesn't get fouled.
All I can say is that I'd love, love to coach against some of the people on here.
And calling a shot ONE STEP INSIDE HALF COURT "NBA-Plus" is disingenuous at best. It was a RUNNING, FLOATING SHOT. From 42 fucking feet. Again, if you would rather another guy shoot an open 20 footer than the shot Turner took, well: 1) agree to disagree, 2) you can't be serious. And if 2), then see 1).
When was the last time you saw a foul called 40 feet away from the ball in the final two seconds? Like, never? Refs eat the whistle most of the time in those situations to avoid impacting the game barring anything obvious. So our game plan was "don't foul"? Brutal. It was a no-brainer to double team Turner and leave the in bounder unguarded.
i think i'll stick with the guy who's won 500 college basketball games and is universally regarded as an excellent game coach over "angry message board guy." not that he's never made a mistake, but we got beat by the player of the year hitting a 40-footer at the buzzer. shit happens. get over it.
You're not really following. Sure there was emotion in my initial post - I'm sure lots of fans were ticked - but my initial point was that our 500 win coach is getting his butt handed to him on the recruiting trail by our arch-rivals which:
1. Makes this loss that much more frustrating given that the talent disparity between UM and MSU/OSU will only grow in the next few years;
2. Makes his coaching prowess his only legit redemptive quality, which was incredibly suspect given how he managed that last 2.2 seconds.
And my conclusion was yeah, an angry message board guy flatulating that I'm resigned to writing Beilin off mostly due to his inability to competitively recruit.
The cherry on top of all of this? WVU winning the Big East for the first time with their new coach Huggins...
...is invoking bob huggins as some sort of example of what we could be. oy, gevalt.
at wisconsin circa 1990
can't shoot either
badly for you.
Why? I’m as diehard a UM fan as you’ll find. I didn’t see anywhere when I signed up here that this site is only meant for fans willing to make positive comments amidst all of this misery. I’m fully behind RR and still strongly believe he’ll turn the football team around in a year or two, but I haven’t seen anything from Beilin that is impressive. RR outrecruited Tress this year amidst all his turmoil. But Beilin? The disparity between our program and MSU and OSU will only increase in the next few years with the stellar recruiting they are doing, and Beilin is failing to do.
If your concern is that negativity will lead to negatives results by potentially impacting recruit decisions, that makes sense when you still hold out a hope that this coach can turn a program around, but at this point, with the incoming recruiting disparity, and no evidence Beilin is going to rectify that disparity, it’s over baby, over, and may as well call a spade a spade.
REALLY? With 2.2 seconds left, BY FAR, the most dangerous play is a long pass into the frontcourt. He played it pretty damn well. And if you watch the replay, we DID have Stu on Turner in the backcourt; he got screened off of him.
You play the percentages. The percentage of a long pass to a guy into the frontcourt leading to a good shot with 2.2 left (Think Christian Laettner in 1992 Elite 8- there were 2.4 sec left) vs. the percentage of times they're going to make a running 42 foot shot with a guy running at the shooter. . .come on.
You have to think of what the alternative was. Double team Turner in the backcourt? Okay, sure. Then you leave 3 to guard the other 4, and no one guarding the other guy in the backcourt at. all. And, as has been mentioned, Turner was the worst 3p shooter on the floor for tOSU.
Ask yourself this: If someone had said, "would you take a running 42 footer from Turner with Stu waving a hand in his face" before the play started, what would you've said? I'd said, "yes, I'll fucking take it, and if he pulls that out of his ass and hits it, my hat's off to him."
Come on, people. Blaming "coaching" for Turner hitting an incredibly difficult shot is asinine. Especially when you look at all of the possible outcomes in that scenario: The main thing you've got to protect against is a pass into the frontcourt. We did that. Turner just made a career-highlight play.
This would all makes sense if Beilin actually evidenced any coaching there beyond "DON'T FOUL." I mean, UM only had ONE GUY in the back court!!! Beilin put four of our players like statues in the front court doing nothing but impeding an 80 foot throw. Instead of actually coaching, and factoring in that referees rarely, if ever call a non-shooting foul in a game deciding situation, our Master of X’s and O’s tells our guys in the huddle “Just don’t foul! Stand and do nothing in the front court and don’t foul!” BRILLIANT! He allows a smooth mid court pass, smooth and easy, unimpeded movement by their shooter, Turner no less, and BOOM. I mean, you have 5 guys covering 4. Even if Beilin just throws a second defender in the front court, at least he can avoid the backcourt pick Douglass ate, and he can mildly impede Turner, causing a 0.3 second hesitation that (a) disrupts Turner’s flow, and (b) negates any time for the shot. Even Turner himself indicts our coach.
Turner was “surprised that no one impeded his progress as he dribbled up the court. Honestly, I thought they were going to press or something like that. The whole game they were swarming me. They gave me one good look. Being open felt a little bit free. I felt like I was in the gym by myself.”
But yeah, rock on Beilin fans, rock on…
"Double team Turner in the backcourt? Okay, sure. Then you leave 3 to guard the other 4"
Actually it would be 3 guarding the other 3 as the guy taking it out of bounds was safely out of the equation. What we were left with was 4 guys not named Douglass guarding 2 OSU guys in the frontcourt. I generally agree with your points, just being nitpicky.