Searchbits VIII: There Is No Carr Illuminati Comment Count

Brian

PULL THE STRINGS. There was another round of echo-chamber Carrspiracy stuff on the various message boards over the past couple days. No idea why, unless Brian Griese expressing his opinion that he wouldn't go after Harbaugh is reason to envision Carr as a puppet master cackling behind the scenes. For the nth time, Carr is a civilian who only talks to the athletic department when they call him up. That is not frequently.

And then there's this, via Craig Ross by way of Sam Webb:

“I am not involved in the coaching search in any direct way,” Carr said.  “However, I have been asked my opinion. My opinion was Jim Harbaugh would be my number one choice.”

This take was replicated at the News a bit later; 247 also freed up an article from a couple weeks ago in which they described what was going down between Carr and Harbaugh:

We've confirmed with a few different sources that any animosities between former Michigan head coach Lloyd Carr and Harbaugh have been mended, and very recently. Carr's influence at this point is unknown, but it's believed he had a hand in the hiring of Brady Hoke during the last coaching search, and there's been a history of a tenuous relationship between the two since Harbaugh's comments about Michigan football and academics when he coached at Stanford. This is mostly important in the idea that there's no doubt Harbaugh will be Michigan's top target when the job opens up, and it's looking more and more like it will be a full group effort with all the oars rowing in the same direction. That makes this likely coaching search different than the last two already.

Even that bit about "having a hand" in the last search conflicts with my information, in which Carr was asked if he thought Brady was a good dude and said yes because everyone says yes to that question.

Carr is not interested in machinations. Michigan might be better off if he was—if he was inclined to call his guys up and get them to toe the line. But that's not who he is, for better or worse. I look forward to my next item pointlessly begging the internet to stop it with the Carrmason stuff. Y'all should get a pool going. I've got two hours ago.

TIMEFRAMES. Hackett met with the players yesterday and told them they'd have a new coach within a month:

"He wasn't overly specific," one person said. "But he mentioned that in all likelihood the whole situation will be resolved before the players return from their Christmas break."

That would be the start of the new semester on January 4th, a timeline long enough to resolve the Harbaugh issue. Or it could happen any time before that.

Jim-Harbaugh[1]

HARBAUGH HARBAUGH HARBAUGH. Zero clarity. Sam threw some cold water on the idea($), citing a couple of sources who think it's going to be tougher than they previously thought. His best guess is still Harbaugh, FWIW. Those are gentlemen who have talked to Harbaugh directly, so I would take that seriously. Gregg Henson, who's been beating the ITSHAPPENING.gif drum harder than anyone for a solid month now, is also walking his position back a bit.

On the other hand, Rivals is emitting the kind of ambiguously encouraging bits that have little information content—they're enough to get people in frenzy mode but  laden with plausible deniability. There was poll on their board about what people would do in the event of a Harbaugh hire; it was heavy on the wink-wink with "but it's still a coinflip" attached. That link above is to a "you're gonna like Jim Hackett!" tweet. I mean… cumong, man.

If Harbaugh doesn't end up at M a ton of people are going to be pissed at them and they'll blame the people who are praising them to the heavens now, just like they strenuously denied that Harbaugh and Brandon had a problem working together until the instant Brandon left.

But that's none of my business.

The upshot here: Sam's hearing stuff that we don't want to hear, Henson is still pretty gung ho but hearing some things that give him pause, and Rivals is on the optimistic side. 247 has not ventured anything($) resembling a "probably" or "probably not," which is where I'm at, too: at this point it feels like Harbaugh's yes or no is about which neurons fire in his brain at the critical moment.

Meanwhile, Wojo details why things might go better this time:

Interim athletic director Jim Hackett knows it can't be cursory, which was the case four years ago. Dave Brandon didn't want to play the wooing game and cede control. But now Michigan football sits at another dangerous juncture, and while Harbaugh isn't the only prime candidate, he's the first and best one, an instant infusion of energy and credibility. And I doubt he'd use his alma mater simply to get a better deal elsewhere. I think he'd tell Michigan if he weren't interested, and he hasn't done that yet.

Wojo's "sense" is that Michigan would pay in the Urban Meyer range, which is kind of close to the Godfather offer reports.

STOOPS STOOPS STOOPS. Also zero clarity, with plenty of people saying there's no way and plenty of other people saying that this might be a point at which a mutual separation from Oklahoma makes sense.

I personally doubt it's feasible because of the Florida search, but as I mentioned in the comments of the Mullen PIH "Jeremy Foley is not good at his job" is a reasonable explanation for a lot of Florida's actions over the last five years, so it is possible that they just overlooked the possibility. Also, Stoops has a game this weekend and may be evaluating his situation more closely afterward.

Stoops's justifiably pissy reaction to the "ARE U JOB X" question sticks out, though. Chatter is just chatter.

ON THE RADAR. A group of guys appear to be filling out the B list:

  • JIM MORA, UCLA. Sam Webb broached his name in an article, and now Cowherd's chattering about a secret Michigan candidate who is thankfully not Greg Schiano. Cowherd is based in LA and would have more reason to know about a guy in LA; I've also gotten a little chatter to that effect. Former M OL Courtney Morgan is on Mora's staff, so he could be a point of contact. Sam also points out that Mora and Mike DeBord were on the same Seahawks staff($) five or so years ago.
  • KYLE WHITTINGHAM, UTAH. Wittingham's well-known to the Michigan brass after multiple encounters with him in the recent past and has a solid resume. Poachability is a bit of an issue, and Utah had a rough transition to the Pac-12, but he's a solid option Sam says is getting some chatter from the West.
  • DAN MULLEN, MSU. Sam says that "surprisingly enough," Mullen is getting attention. That this would be surprising bothers me, but there it is.
  • STEVE ADDAZIO, BC. I hate this idea but it has enough chatter that someone somewhere clearly has him on the list. Again, Addazio is 55 and is coming off consecutive seven-win seasons at BC; he was the disastrous follow-up to Mullen as Florida OC. He makes no sense unless Mullen is off the table.
    Butch Jones is seemingly also a person of interest, but with Tennessee preparing to give him an extension after a 6-6 year when he's got four years left on his contract it looks like the Vols are trying to block interest before it gets started. Carr also pumped up Art Briles to Craig Ross when they talked, which is pretty interesting. Unfortunately you have to figure that if Briles wanted to leave Waco he'd be the guy at Texas right now.

OKAY THEN. Someone asked Teryl Austin about the Michigan job, and this is an actual-denial denial:

But Austin says he has no interest in pursuing the Wolverines' head coaching position, which opened after the firing of Brady Hoke earlier this week.

"No," he said. "I'm interested in this (Lions) job."

Michigan going after someone in his first successful season as a coordinator (and second overall) was a monster longshot anyway.

SORRY, THAT'S NOT ALL OF US. Local New Orleans reporter on the Sean Payton loves hotdogs thing:

Rivals broadened their hot board in response… by adding Mike Tomlin and Josh McDaniels.

Etc.: Local columnist Sharpin' it by yelling at Les Miles to take the job. Thamel says the pace will be "deliberate," which I'm suddenly very much in favor of after the Florida/Nebraska searches.

Comments

funkifyfl

December 5th, 2014 at 11:51 AM ^

So much this. We should be able to debate reasonable names, but if your proposed coach isn't better or at least comparable to Les Miles, it shouldn't be discussed. Now, this seemingly contradicts the news that Hackett said there are 14 names on the list - i.e. are there really 14 better coaches than Les? If they really are checking in on names like Stoops and Patterson, I could see this, but it's still tough once you get past 10 or so. If you're adding Saban, Meyer, and Jimbo, it gets easier.

This search is absolutely CRUSHING my productivity.

DonAZ

December 5th, 2014 at 11:16 AM ^

I like the idea of Harbaugh as first choice because I think this program needs a swift kick in the ass ... a no bullshit ass-whipping to get talent onhand to play.  Plus, as others have noted, Harbaugh vs. Dantonio and Harbaugh vs. Meyer is some real drama.  It'd be great.

DonAZ

December 5th, 2014 at 11:19 AM ^

I read that as a signal to current players that they'll still have a role.  In other words: don't transfer, please ... stay put.

I don't read that as a signal that we'll necessarily get a three-yards / dust type of coach.

The false-choice positioning of manball vs. spread is irritating.  Plenty of programs have elements of both. 

DonAZ

December 5th, 2014 at 12:09 PM ^

I should have been more clear -- I wasn't irritated with what you wrote.  As you say, you're just reporting what was mentioned elsewhere.

My "irritation" is with false-choice arguments in general.  They seem the staple in modern day debates.  I see it come up in this football discussion frequently -- it's either Oregon spread or 1970's Michigan manball.  Nothing inbetween.  When in fact, there's plenty inbetween.

turd ferguson

December 5th, 2014 at 11:42 AM ^

It's totally possible that I'm just looking for good signs at this point, but telling players this seems plainly stupid unless you're really confident that you know who you're hiring (and want to prevent transfers over Christmas) and Hackett doesn't seem that stupid.  If true, I think this could be another subtle, slighly positive sign that Harbaugh is likely.

michgoblue

December 5th, 2014 at 11:42 AM ^

I completely disagree with you that this ia s stupid thing for the AD to say to the current players.

1.  We have all seen first hand what the shift from true MANBALL to true spread (and back from true spread to MANBALL) looks like.  It is a mess filled with square pegs being shoved into round holes.  I, for one, do not want to endure another 3-4 year roster rebuild.  Our roster is currently stocked with both experience and talent at every position other than QB.  Rather than scrapping that experience, I hope that the next coach builds on it, but with better coaching. 

2.  We have a roster that was recruited, for better or worse, to run a more "pro style" offense - whatever the hell that means.  On offense (which is where this would matter), we don't have many (any?) slot ninja types, but we have a bunch of young, taller receivers that lack top end speed.  Our RBs, all highly rated coming out of school, are also not traditional spread and shred backs - they are larger, powerful (in theory), through the tackles runners.  Ditto with our OL, which is made up of road graders, not the lighter, quicker RR linemen.  Even our QBs are far better suited for pro-style than spread.

3.  What is spread and what is pro style?  You post leads me to believe that you take "not a spread coach" to mean that we will be going manball or bust.  I don't take it that way, at all.  Rather, I take it as a statement that our new coach will not have a system akin to that of RichRod (a zone read spread) or akin to Oregon.  But, not being RichRod or Oregon does not necessarily mean being Hoke.  There are many types of offense that are "not a spread" a Hackett likely meant the term that we would all be happy with. 

 

 

 

LKLIII

December 5th, 2014 at 12:02 PM ^

I think this is right.

Pure Spread vs. Pure Manball is way too simplistic.  There are styles in-between.  It's more of a spectrum.

I also agree that going from Manball to RR back to Manball over a 7 year period was very painful--full of those square peg round hole roster problems.

My guess is by saying "no pure spread coach" or something to that effect to the players was simply to say "we won't be going to full spectrum spread" again.  Translation: "the next coach will be able to use most or all of you in his new scheme and not have to resort to his true freshmen new recruits." 

So on a scale of 1-10 with 1 being pure spread and 10 being pure manball, my guess is what Hackett means is not, "We are at a 10 and we will not select a coach anything below a 9", but rather "We will not select a coach below a 5 or 6."

It's to prevent the guys from freaking out and all jumping ship.

DonAZ

December 5th, 2014 at 12:32 PM ^

On the scale of 1 to 10, where 10 is pure manball .. I'd put Mullen at 3 or 4.  Just my two cents.

I'm no X's and O's guy ... but what my eyes see is that a dominating defensive line can disrupt the hell out a pure spread team.  And the SEC is full of really good defensive line players.  So I would think Mullen has learned to adapt a bit.  Hence my "3 or 4" answer.

dnak438

December 5th, 2014 at 12:47 PM ^

Look at the WRs that Chip Kelly has gone after in Philly: they're all pretty big-bodied guys. The slot receiver for the Eagles is Jordan Matthews, who is 6'3" 212. Sure, Chip's in the NFL now, but I see no reason to think that big WRs can't be effective in spread schemes.

At Mississippi State, the slots have been Chad Bumphis, who is smallish (5'10", 200 lbs) but doesn't really fit the "slot ninja" mold (at least, from I've seen) and Jameon Lewis (5'9", 195 lbs) who seems like more of a slot ninja.

But you don't need slot ninjas to move the ball in the spread. Roy Roundtree was an excellent slot receiver at Michigan and wasn't much of a ninja.

 

redsoxaa

December 5th, 2014 at 11:21 AM ^

Serious question: Is Miles the kind of guy that would take offense to being the back-up plan?  I mean, if he gets offered on Dec.30th it would be pretty obvious that UM rode the Harbaugh train till he said no.

Bryan

December 5th, 2014 at 11:29 AM ^

It allows Miles to finish out his season at LSU. 

Something that I haven't seen posted yet is that if there is no coach in place by 12/15/14, there isn't a rush until the end of the season becasue 1) no other major school vacancies (good job UNL and UF!) and 2) recruiting dead period. 

Either this gets settled in the next 10 days or we are waiting until the end of the NFL regular season (pending the 49ers playoff chances).

 

Njia

December 5th, 2014 at 12:38 PM ^

But Les isn't stupid, either. He knows that Harbaugh is the hot coach right now and is younger by 10 years. That also means there are going to be fewer questions asked of him unless and until Harbaugh definitely says no, and publicly. All of that works in Les' favor.

UMaD

December 5th, 2014 at 12:33 PM ^

You gotta start reading some sites other than Mgoblog or maybe go back to the previous head coaching searches and look at some of the names brought up in them.

Mullen isn't leaving MSU and if he was UM doesn't want "his kind".  The M search guys hate his offense, want to be different than Meyer/Rodriguez/Kelly and Rivals has said (paraphrasing) that his is a dirty no good cheater face and want no part of his dirty no good cheating (face).

Mullen is not pursuing or being pursued. He will not be the coach here. People should stop talking about him. Maybe start talking about Paul Johnson, who is vaguely plausible (but also is not coming.)

UMaD

December 5th, 2014 at 4:03 PM ^

All due respect (I mean that sincerely), the argument you made in your profile post was short and not convincing.

Mullen leaving for UM doesn't make any damn sense and nobody outside Michigan or inside Michigan is saying they are seriously looking at him.  Rivals (FWIW and as you probably know) is specifically saying not-gonna-happen.  The only place I've seen it come up is purely speculative or generic these-are-some-guys type columns.  To me, it's only a different strain of the arrogant/crazy NFL-guy stuff.

P.S.  Nice to see you engaged in the message board chatter a bit.

 

turd ferguson

December 5th, 2014 at 11:32 AM ^

I just posted this in another thread, but I think a much more reasonable interpretation of Carr's comments (than the conspiracy theories) is that he's trying to communicate to former players who trust him that he's behind Harbaugh and willing to forgive Harbaugh for his comments about Michigan football players' academics.  Those comments probably upset a lot of guys at the time, and I could see this being Carr's attempt to pitch in by getting everyone on the same page and quelling internal resistance.

InterM

December 5th, 2014 at 12:27 PM ^

with Wojo's theory that Hackett's burying of the "Michigan Man" theme at his press conference was intended in part to reassure Harbaugh that he won't have to deal with any criticism from former players that his comments about academics mean he's not a true "Michigan Man."  All in all, it looks like Michigan is determined to present a unified front in going after Harbaugh.  Now, whether they actually can get him is a different matter, but at least we can be reasonably sure that they are trying.

Ty Butterfield

December 5th, 2014 at 11:40 AM ^

Well at least it seems that Hackett understands that this is a crucial time for the program. The wrong hire could screw the program for at least another 10 years.

HonoluluBlue

December 5th, 2014 at 11:44 AM ^

If it is true that Mora is the secret name then I think this is nothing more than a play by his agent to get Mora a riase. Agent feeds Cowherd a secret tip, gets internet rumors blazing, Mora leverages it into a big raise. He only mkaes around 2 million right now and his agent probably figures he can get that up to 3.5 or 4 with some good rumors.

maizenblue92

December 5th, 2014 at 12:29 PM ^

The problem with this thought process is that the UCLA athletic department is very strapped for cash. They can't pay him more than what he makes now. They can't pay for high end coordinators either. And if I recall, he received a raise last year after flirting with some jobs. They just don't have the money to play those games.

Cromulent

December 5th, 2014 at 11:47 AM ^

Briles would be awesome. While his offense is spread in personality the X's & O's are expressed as Yeoman's old Veer. Don't think this would be a huge adjustment. And for MANBALL types there is plenty of power blocking if the defensive alignment dictates it.

alum96

December 5th, 2014 at 12:01 PM ^

I did a bit of a deep dive on Briles last night only due to the fact of Carr's mentioning of him.  He is pretty interesting - has never been a HC outside of the state of Texas.  Unlike the Baylor of 4-5 years ago Baylor's defense the past 2 years actually is viable at a Greg Mattison level.  Until 2013 it was a Greg Robinson level.  He is paid pretty damn well and I doubt he ever leaves but he would be fun and a lot more interesting than some of the retreads being discussed, although he is already 58. 

And he seemed to learn from his season a few years back (8-5) he has to play some defense, and Baylor has adjusted as much as you can in the pass happy Big 12.  So the Briles of today vs the Briles of 4 years ago is an improvement.  He basically laid out the system at Houston that Sumlin made his name off of.

I think we'd actually look a lot like OSU with Art Briles - a zilly offense combined with a decent but not great defense.  Different offensive systems but same results.

 

Cromulent

December 5th, 2014 at 12:12 PM ^

The O would put a lot of butts in seats. I do think the O has evolved a bit from the Houston days though. Maybe because Briles can recruit a different kind of player to Waco. Baylor runs way more deep stuff than Houston ever did. Unless the opponent's secondary was of GERG quality Case Keenum was dumping the ball off quite a bit. Yards per catch was definitely lower.

Realus

December 5th, 2014 at 11:51 AM ^

Brian, after reading your whitewashing of Carr, I can conclude only one of two things:
 
1) You are part of the Carr Illuminati.  Congratulations!!  You guys can finish off U of M football forever (well, at least another 10 years) by bringing in Greg Schiano, Steve Addazio, Cam Cameron, or Ron English.  It will interesting to see who you guys will pick.
 
2) Lloyd Carr is a source of yours.  Congratulations!!  It is good for you to be so close to the Carr Illuminati.
 

Realus

December 5th, 2014 at 12:11 PM ^

Carr, contacted RR but when RR got here, he cut the legs out from under him.

Basically it's very clear to me that Carr does NOT want U of M to ever be successful again, unless he or one of his cronies is HC.  I am not sure if that's narcissistic or psychotic or just being an asshole but the evidence is clear, if one is willing to look.  As far as Carr praising Harbaugh in public, that's just in public.  Who knows what the fuck he is doing to screw this up in private.

I understand it's hard (almost impossible) for Brian to be in this business and see and report on things like that.  That's fine.  I have a lot of respect for Brian, nonetheless. (I'm a lot less idealistic in my old age).

Also, I think my previous comment is obviously meant to be a self parody of sorts.  It sounds like a comment from a true consipary type, but the underlying meaning is true.

michgoblue

December 5th, 2014 at 12:11 PM ^

Did you forget the /s?

If so, and if my sarcasm meter is just broken, apologies.

If not, you are a moron. Lloyd is not out to destroy the university. He has done more positive - including delivering our only national championship in 60+ years - than anyone alive. You may not agree with all of his opinions, but he has a hell of a lot more of a right to express those opinions than you, me or anyone else on this board.

And, while far from my first choice, we could do worse than Addazzio. Oh, and Carr just endorsed Harbaugh (and Briles!!) so wtf are you talking about with Ron English?