Scrimmage Take: But The Defense Is Great? Comment Count

Brian

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why u no push [Bryan Fuller]

Might as well get it out of the way. The offensive line was pretty depressing. For big chunks of the scrimmage it was ones versus twos, which helps resolve the classic intrasquad "is this event good or bad" dilemma: when your second-team defense is stoning your first team offense, it is bad. And they did stone the offense:

The rotation Saturday was more stable in comparison with last season, but the three running backs gained just 33 yards on 20 carries with the first team, and the blocking issues haven’t gone away.

In this case it is maybe less bad than otherwise because there's little separation between Michigan's first- and second-team front sevens. But it is still bad.

One disturbing echo of last year: when Glasgow got dinged up and went out, it was Joey Burzynski who drew into the lineup at right guard on the first team. No offense to Burzynski, but the guy is a 6'1" gentleman coming off of ACL surgery. Surely one of the touted 6'5" guys should be ahead of him on the depth chart by now.

Kalis was out and I imagine he has managed to pass Burzynski, but his presence indicates that Samuelson and Dawson and Bars and so forth and so on are not yet viable options. And where's Bosch? On the second team, yes, but why isn't he pushing for a spot?

I can't tell you too much about any particular lineman without tape, unfortunately… Cole held his own in pass protection, so there's that.

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in yo face [Fuller]

Aggression. If you needed further confirmation it is real, well, it's real. Michigan ran piles and piles of man-to-man—all the better to unleash Peppers on opponents with—and took a number of PI flags ranging from obvious to silly to questionable. They must clean those up, but with Michigan going hell-for-leather in your face this year the QB has to get it on target for it to count.

Encouragingly there weren't many biffs that led to wide open guys in the flat. Wyatt Shallman had one flare-and-run that broke for a bunch of yards when his man got picked off by the route. That will be a danger: if Michigan doesn't have a reasonable amount of zone those plays will be there.

Hello Mr. Hurts. I just misspelled "Hurst" but I'm leavin' it. Mo Hurst burst into the backfield three or four times, once getting a thunderous safety TFL. As a recruit he was reputed to be a first step that happened to be attached to a human body, and that looks on point. No doubt he will have issues holding up to double-teams as a 282-pound redshirt freshman; from here it looks like a promising debut season and considerable excitement going into next year are waiting in the wings.

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[Fuller]

Who is where at DT? And will they stay there? Your nominal starters were, unexpectedly, Matt Godin and Ryan Glasgow at three-tech and nose, respectively. There was a ton of rotation at those spots, so much so that determining a Real Starter seems not only futile but pointless, but if those two guys are actually viable that's interesting. Because it's not like Willie Henry is going away:

He will start; Godin's existence is a nice bonus. I'm a little less enthused about the prospect of Glasgow as a candidate to start at nose because there isn't a groundswell of buzz behind a couple of established players like there is at three-tech. Pipkins has gotten some approving mentions but nothing like that accompanying Henry, and while Mone is set to be a contributor he is a true freshman.

Undeserved lemon? Bolden was first choice at WLB but Morgan rotated in so frequently at both positions it seems like they just have three starters for two spots. Like DT it is at times pointless to think one guy is a starter while the other is not. This bodes well.

Bolden did just annihilate one screen, laying the hardest hit he has on anyone since his arrival. Hesitancy has been the main issue with his game since his arrival. If it has truly clicked for him, that's exciting. He is not beating out a scrub here.

Youth movement at corner. Also in "not beating out a scrub here": Lewis and Peppers are definitely your leaders there; rotation will be frequent. Countess did have an excellent INT on a Gardner throw destined for Funchess, but even so it seems like two returning starters on a decent pass defense have been booted from the starting lineup.

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Darboh and Gardner have chemistry. [Fuller]

Wideout depth is quality. Michigan has their big 5 (Funchess, Darboh, Canteen, Chesson, Norfleet) and then some: Moe Ways brought in four or five catches that were reminiscent of Junior Hemingway, and while he was working on a walk-on wearing 49 for some of those the way he found the ball in the air and brought it in was impressive.

Walk-on Bo Dever showed some promise as a Dileo-type in the slot; he was Speight's favorite target; fellow walk-on Jack Wangler was also reliable. No idea if either has the athletcism or route chops to get real playing time. They've got a chance. FWIW, Stribling had a nice interception on a Dever wheel route that he had blanketed. That is not his jam.

On the negative side, Da'Mario Jones had a bad night, dropping several balls that should have been catches. Jaron Dukes didn't do much.

Oh, and the top end is rather top end.

The first downfield pass was Funchess making a spectacular stab while well covered. Yes, please. In general, the WR/CB matchup looked top-notch all around. Michigan receivers found very few open opportunities and still made some great catches. Freddy Canteen once again reminded Jourdan Lewis that the gypsy he offended needs an apology. And Amara Darboh looked very, very Avant-like on a series of slants and digs that promise to be reliable chain-movers this fall.

If Michigan can pass protect there is the potential for a passing-oriented offense to work here. If.

All the zone reps. Every OL drill in the warmup portion was zone-oriented, and about 90% was inside zone. They worked in pairs against one opponent, reacting to his movements to execute combination blocks, and then worked on IDing and reacting appropriately to stunts. As the scrimmage showed, it is a work in progress. It's going to be a work in progress all year, and all next year, and the year after that. Inside zone is hard and competence is built up over years.

Another safety solution. Hill was held out; in his stead the first team safety combination was Clark and Wilson. The twist: it was Wilson frequently creeping to the line as the strong safety with Clark playing center field.

Gardner looked good. He's fast!. He's still a little wobbly with the decisions. He looked very accurate when given time, and stepped up through pressure more than once. His only flip-around-and-chuck was a ball he was throwing away; he did have one aimless bomb downfield that should have been out of bounds but was instead up for grabs that Nussmeier did not like.

Morris looked a lot more plausible than he did in the spring, more comfortable in the pocket and less prone to throwing directly at defenders.

Injuries. Butt and Hill were in no-contact jerseys; Reon Dawson had an arm in a sling; Delonte Hollowell had a hard cast on one hand for what looked like a thumb issue. Hollowell participated as normal. Drake Harris dressed normally but didn't even take the full warmup reps with his bros. Ty Isaac was held out with something minor, and Kalis had his back issue. He should be back today.

Meanwhile, any and all optimism about Butt's return seems reasonable. He went through warmup drills with everyone else and looked just fine. If he's at the stage where he can plant and cut at full speed with a month before ND he should be ready to go by then.

Return reversal. In a bit of an oddity, it looks like Peppers is more likely to get time as a punt returner than at kick returner, where Raymon Taylor was Norfleet's backup. Usually kickoffs are where you blood new guys because a muff just means you got a touchback or some bad field position instead of disaster.

Hagerup! Booted a 70 yarder, drawing the first applause of the night. #B1G.

The thing that is hilarious. Dennis Norfleet stacked behind Devin Funchess. We do not have a photo of this yet, but when we do… oh, when we do. 

Phil Collins count: 0.

I think we killed it. I didn't mention this all last year because I didn't want to jinx it but after not only the nonstop music from the spring game but also this scrimmage, I think I can finally poke my head out and say: "In The Big House" is dead. Deaaaaaaaaad.

I swear to God, Special K, if you bring it back after I mention this I will find you. That's the best thing about making up a fictional bete noire DJ: you can threaten it all you want.

Formations. Michigan at least showed a lot of stuff, mixing under center snaps with the pistol and shotgun. The formations featured a lot of 2TE looks, and what seemed like a decreased emphasis on the FB. Nussmeier really likes motioning FB/RB/TE types out wide to trips formations, which gives the defense a dilemma: do I run a linebacker out there and tell 'em it's man coverage (and spread the box) or do I live with the potential mismatch that comes when one of my corners is dealing with AJ Williams?

This will get more interesting when Butt is on the field. Right now a 2TE lineup of Williams and Heitzman or Hill is emphatically 2TEs; with Butt you can really put a defense in a bind.

Corner blitz hot reads. Two or three times Gardner IDed a corner blitz and just threw a hot stop route to the vacated corner for nice gains.

FLEET house KO. High five!

Comments

Danny Bonaduce

August 18th, 2014 at 12:14 PM ^

So here is my thing, if Michigan wins at ND (which I think is very possible), they have a very real chance of being 8-0 going into the MSU game.  By that point in the season (I pray) the offensive line should be much, much better.  People have commented on how tough the November schedule is this year but I really think that works in our advantage.  If the defense can keep them in games at the beginning of the year while the offense grows, I firmly believe this can be a special year. 

BlueCube

August 18th, 2014 at 12:29 PM ^

and get there at 7-1. People are bitching about the weak schedule but it is the best thing possible this year. I think the defense can carry the early games and it will make them better by playing that they can't break. Then as the OL gets stronger the offense should come around.

What I saw at the scrimmage was a lot of good receivers. A quick passing game can give the line a break and open the running game. I have a feeling we are going to be a tough team to beat by the end of the year and will at a minimum make a run at MSU and OSU. That's assuming the line gets to decent by that point in the year.

I think next year is going to be a lot of fun. You look at the depth and experience everywhere and drool.

ish

August 18th, 2014 at 12:16 PM ^

this is sad.  it's as if brian was saying "the OL was really bad.  i don't need to write that much about that topic because there's not much else to say."

mGrowOld

August 18th, 2014 at 12:19 PM ^

I know I seem to talk about this kid a lot but can somebody tell me if Dymonte Thomas even saw the field for the scrimmage and if so, how did he play?  I didnt see the scrimmage and based on the numerous write-up's and Brian's review he either turned completely invisable (again), didn't play or did absolutely nothing of note.  None of which are good for a 5 Star recruit out of Ohio IMO.

We burned his Freshman redshirt in the CMU game.  Any chance they're looking to RS him this year to get it back?

 

mGrowOld

August 18th, 2014 at 12:36 PM ^

No it hasn't changed.  I still think we run the table outside of the three rival road games maybe steal one of those (ND perhaps) to get to 9 or 10 wins pre-bowl game.  Fortunately the schedule is back-loaded so the line has time to grow and mature between now and when things start to get really tough.

I'm not as pessimistic as some about the results of the scrimmage.  Offensives ALWAYS look worse than defenses for the simple reason that the defense usually has a pretty good idea of what's coming based on personel and sets.  Think of it like gameplanning against Borges - most defensive coordinators worth a shit knew what he was coming with and aligned accordingly.  Plus the o-line was missing two starters so not sure how much you can read into what 60% of our starting o-line was able to do against a defense who knew what play was coming and wasnt worried about misdirection or constraint plays.

 

mGrowOld

August 18th, 2014 at 3:49 PM ^

Hey - why dont you take a moment and share your thoughts on the upcoming season?  I know you were calling for 9 or even 10 wins - did Saturday night diminish that at all?

(filling in missing post that got caved thereby making me look even more schizophrenic than usual)

Erik_in_Dayton

August 18th, 2014 at 12:27 PM ^

I don't think it's reasonable to expect the OL to be above average at running the ball at any point this year.  Yes, Kalis was out.  And Glasgow was hurt.  And the D is always ahead of the O.  And Michigan's DL is probably pretty good.

But 20 for 33 (1.65 ypc) is nowhere near okay, even for just one scrimmage.  A 3.5 ypc outing would have been okay - and that's more than double what they did on Saturday.  This was really bad, and even a big improvement doesn't necessarily put Michigan into the realm of proficient.

I think, FWIW, it will help us as a fan base to embrace the OL's likely struggles now rather than being horribly disappointed during the season.  I'm not advising panic.  I'm advising that we seek acceptance.

Sten Carlson

August 18th, 2014 at 12:59 PM ^

Debbie,

You're continually displaying your complete lack of understanding of how scrimmages work, and how playing against your own defense is really difficult.  They know everything about you, your play book, and what you're trying to do before you even do it.  The defense has nothing to lose, they can "sell out" with no concern about the scoreboard.  Add to that the fact that, by all accounts, this is a REALLY good Michigan defense, and it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that the OL seemed to struggle.

Good lord this is getting to be unbearable!

Sten Carlson

August 18th, 2014 at 1:37 PM ^

You mean the PSU performance in which our usually rock-solid kicker missed 3 game winning FG's?  Sure it was ugly, but we should have come away with the win, and PSU needed some kind of miracle heroics to beat us -- that's sports.

I love Michigan football as much as anyone, maybe more -- it's a part of me as a person since 1976.  I knew Bo personally, sat next to Mrs. Carr for year at home games, I could hear the Big House from my house as a kid, was close family friends with Bob Ufer, and then attended Michigan.  But, despite all the ups and downs, I've never been "ready to jump off a cliff" over Michigan football.  Crushed, gutted, depressed, sure.  But, people in here are turning being a diehard fan of Michigan into an exercise in determination and near purgatory.

As I have said over and over, look where we were.  Look at the depth chart in 2011, the recruiting from 2010, and tell me that it's not surprising that we're having some issues relating to depth in 2014.  If you cannot, then you're a moron and I have nothing more to say to you. 

I have a hard time sitting back and letting people just kick and trash the kids who are out there busting their asses for Michigan, the school and team that I love.

wolverine1987

August 18th, 2014 at 1:44 PM ^

I haven't read every post on this thread or the other O-line related ones, but have read most. And I don't see anyone trashing the kids on the team. Saying the "0-line is bad" is not trashing the kids IMO. Saying "Kyle Kalis is awful" is. And people are not doing that.

Sten Carlson

August 18th, 2014 at 1:58 PM ^

You're right ... I am overracting and for that I apologize -- Especially to Dayton -- it's unwarranted.  It's just the negativety is getting to me, I suppose.

I just get the sense that Michigan fans aren't happy unless they're miserable.  Although, I do think saying, "the OL is bad' is trashing the kids.  Maybe it's just me, but despite my passion for Michigan football I see the causes and respect the kids who work so hard for us and for Michigan.  They're not "bad" they developing and they're being put in (in many instances) before they're ready.

Anyway, sorry guys ... my outburst was uncalled for.  Mia Culpa!

dahblue

August 18th, 2014 at 1:19 PM ^

Well, I think we opened fall camp on Aug 4.  The scrimmage was on Aug 16.  That's 13 days for a new line to gel.  We play App St. on Aug. 30, which gives us 14 days from the scrimmage to see (or hope for) improvement.  

I'm sure my homerism affects my math, but 13 days isn't a long time for a new line to learn to work well as a unit.  I bet they'll be twice as good for App St (even if that still isn't great) just based on having those extra two weeks to practice.

WolvinLA2

August 18th, 2014 at 2:06 PM ^

I actually think think the OL could be good. They have a new system and new guys in the line up. Give them another month practicing this system and practicing together as one group of starters. And give them a couple games to get their feet wet. I don't expect them to look "good" in the first 4ish games, but I think it's entirely possible, if not likely, for them to be an above average OL group by the midpoint of the season.

Sten Carlson

August 18th, 2014 at 12:52 PM ^

Debbie, you say you're not advocating panic but the tone of you post belies your comment.

"But 20 for 33 (1.65 ypc) is nowhere near okay, even for just one scrimmage."

I said this elsewhere, but I think it bears repeating.  Judging ANYTHING from a situational scrimmage is foolish.  The coaching staff was INTENTIONALLY putting the OL in situations where they've been struggling so as to build proficiency -- to get better you have to practice those things you struggle with, not just those things at which you excel.  This concept is OBVIOUSLY lost upon you, et. al.  Had the offense ripped off 200 yards on 33 carries you would here just as worried about the defense.

From what Hoke said, the Wednesday scrimmage saw a better rushing attack.  I have a feeling that they ran more of the things that they know the OL does well, and maybe gave them a bit more of a "base" defense to deal with.

Acceptance, yes.  But, rather than saying it with a negative slant (the OL likely struggles) how about we as a fanbase get excited about watching these young Michigan Men grow and gain experience and skill?  I think they're going to surprise a lot of people, and by the end of the season we're going to be saying, "wow, 2015 is going to be awesome!"

BiSB

August 18th, 2014 at 12:59 PM ^

This isn't a game. This isn't Nussmeier trying to beat the defense. This is Nussmeier trying to rep things that need to be repped.

This is like watching a guy on the driving range and drawing conclusions without knowing what he's working on. Sure it would seem more encouraging to just bang a driver 280 time and again, but you get better (and get ready for an actual competition) by working on little stuff that might look terrible for a while.

wile_e8

August 18th, 2014 at 1:49 PM ^

Brian said there ran 90% inside zone drills during warm-ups, but he says nothing about during the actual scrimmage. But Space Coyote did a write up on the scrimmage, and here is what he had to say:

This whole thing is exacerbated by the fact – in what is likely a bit of a decoy – that Michigan seemed to run majority Power O in the scrimmage, and still was awful at blocking it. They’ve been a Power O base since Hoke’s arrival. Why the hell can they still not figure out how to block it?

They did look better running the inside zone. They more consistently got into their assignments. Unfortunately, they did very little once they got into their assignments. Feet stopped moving, they lost their punch and didn’t power through to finish drives through their feet, hips, and then upper body. At best, they stalemated. The RBs can help them out a bit, but these are minimal holes. Enough to get positive yardage and maybe fight through some arm tackles for a few more yards, but not much more.

Emphasis mine, but it does seem a little bit like the spent more time working on the thing that needs the most work.

BiSB

August 18th, 2014 at 1:51 PM ^

It was mostly IZ, though they did run power a fair bit.

But the point is that they were likely purposely doing something that is difficult for them right now. If we're going to carry the analogy through, it'd be like a guy working on a low, controlled draw. Sometimes you're going to snap-hook those shots on the range, but (a) who the hell cares what you look like on the range, and (b) you need to hit those shots on the range to know what you can realistically do when you hit the course.

If Michigan comes out early in the year and repeats some varient of 27-for-27, then panic might be in order. I may even join in. But I don't think people should freak out too much based on the fact that they let us watch some of the sausage being made.

Leatherstocking Blue

August 18th, 2014 at 2:17 PM ^

If we believe that Brady Hoke called for the scrimmage to be open to the public (he could've simulated crowd noise better at the indoor facility) and he knows how much angst the O-line generates among all of us, would he really subject us -and the team- to such a poor display if there wasn't something else in the works? Like BiSB said, they were repping certain plays; perhaps the defense knew what plays they were running and the scrimmage was designed to challenge the offense to beat a defense who knew what was coming. i haven't heard anyone mention Gardner audibilized out of plays at the line like he would in a game situation.

I mean, dang, I would not invite 25,000 people to watch me suck if I really did suck.

Erik_in_Dayton

August 18th, 2014 at 1:10 PM ^

...panic is an emotional response, not a judgement based on math.  The one doesn't have to follow from the other.

And there will be people who panic if and when Michigan can't muster 2.5 ypc against ND.  If I'm being inappropriate, it's in thinking that I can make a dent in said panic.

I'm well acquainted WITH football scrimmages (I'm less clear on the use of all-caps) .  You have TO  remember that the offense IS familiar with the Defense TOO. 

And yes, I would BE worried if the defense had given up 200 YARDS.  That WOULD be bad. 

I'm excited about the SEASON and LOOK forward to watching the PLAYERS grow.  Any ASSUMPTION on your PART that I don't is on you. 

 

Sten Carlson

August 18th, 2014 at 1:26 PM ^

Hey slap dick, (better name for you than Debbie, although that has a nice ring to it) if you're unclear about my use of all caps for emphasis you're a bigger idiot than I thought.  I don't capitalize random words, only words that I am EMPHASIZING, like obviously and intentionally -- get it? Probably not.  I think you've spent too much time in Ohio.

Panic is an emotional response that people display when they're unprepared and unable to control their emotions.  I am not saying that nothing in life would evoke such a response from me, but panic is a careless emotional response and I've taken to heart what Don Corleone said, "...women and children can be careless, but not men."

Which are you Debbie?

Sten Carlson

August 18th, 2014 at 2:57 PM ^

Thanks man!

*virtual hug or handshake*

It was simply luck, for the most part.  When my family moved to AA I was 3, and two or three doors down from us happened to be Bob Ufer's step son and his family.  Our families became close friends, and I was fortunate enough to get to spend time with them -- what an awsome guy.  I still have (somewhere) an LP of Ufer's greatest moments, autographed.  I remember spending time in his office/den -- cool stuff!

Further, my dad taught at the UM dental school when I was growing up.  One of my dad's collegues and close friends did Coach Carr's kid's orthodontics and instead of payment, asked (almost jokingly) for 50 yard line tickets.  Well, he gave him 4 seats that were his personal seats.  The guy's kids were young, so he gave/sold (don't remember which) two of the 4 to my dad and I, and the seats I sat in were right next to Mrs. Carr.  I remember vividly her burying her head in my shoulder not wanting to look as we went for a last second FG, and her screaming, "Go Johnny Go!" as John Kolesar streaked down the west sidelines against OSU. 

Fun times!

JFW

August 19th, 2014 at 12:00 PM ^

That's an awesome set of memories. 

 

I went to HS with Jason Carr. Coach Carr would show up at our gym for certain pep assemblies from time to time (he was DC at the time, IIRC). I remember him being a super nice guy. So was Jason for that matter. 

pescadero

August 18th, 2014 at 2:43 PM ^

The coaching staff was INTENTIONALLY putting the OL in situations where they've been struggling so as to build proficiency -- to get better you have to practice those things you struggle with, not just those things at which you excel.

 

That would be normal.

 

The normal cource of events would be to

 

1) Intentionally put the offense in situations they struggle with to build proficiency

2) Intentionally put the defense in situations they struggle with to build proficiency

 

...so where was the part of the scrimmage where the offense dominated because they were working on the inadequacies of the defense?