this is an open forum regarding scott shahfer, go! i say we keep all the coaches. but after having defended scott shahfer i can't anymore. he needs to leave asap.
maybe i should have had greg howard write the brandon obit.
he sucks dong. sorry gsimmons, the players aren't that bad
He's just not a good coach who has consistently underachieved. We should have kept English.
Don't. Just don't. You'll regret it.
This guy is so terrible its incredible. I am amazed that more heat is not coming his way.
Scott Shafer will be made an example of at the end of the season. I was pretty sure of it after the MSU game, but after letting up 48 in West Lafayette, I'm almost certain. These games are looking more and more like the end of Herrmann's run where we can't get the defense off the field late in the game and while the shortcomings of this team seem to be endless, Shafer turned a potential strength into one of those shortcomings and won't be on board past November. When an inconsistant offense such as ours can put up 41 points but still can't come away with a win, someone's not doing their job.
The opposing offense has counters to everything he does, yet he has none.
This game seals it. We played a 2-6 team without its starting QB, and gave up 48 points. I don't know how anyone can defend this guy as our DC. We're on pace to shatter every school record for defensive futility - and this with a D that returned eight starters.
I don't care if we lose a recruit or two. Dump Shafer and hire someone with a better track record than just two years in the MAC and one at a Pac-10 cellar dweller.
Every week we make the opposing offense look unstoppable. I am pissed off. Another 49 points!!! This offense can't score 14 points a game in conference play, yet they dominate our defense with a QB playing his second game ever. Pathetic
i think the only way we keep him is if we decide it will kill our recruiting to get rid of him...which it probably will
not if we make a big name hire
after seeing the talent our defense doesn't have, what big name would want to come here?
he's not big name though...an internal hire may keep some recruits, but won't pull new ones. If we get rid of Shafer we'll get a true 3-3-5 DC, RR wants one bad
good (maybe Great) talent but if you are consistently being put in the wrong place by your DC, you can't show it.
michigan is a huge school on your resume. the next guy will be a god for 'turning around' the defense at michigan.
That's why Muschamp went to UT.
An up-and-comming DC who turns around UM's D next year would have decent head coaching opportunities in 2 to 3 years. Maybe a guy from the South, where RR loves recruiting from will head to AA.
How about the horrible defense killing recruiting.
There is an incredible amount of stupid oozing from this thread.
that's how it goes ten minutes after a game like this.
that was the intention
Are you just trying to be a contrarian? Can you seriously defend Shafer with any evidence aside from one win against USC and the improvement of Western Michigan from 05 to 06?
Are people 'oozing stupid' because 'dude our guys totally suck and have no desire!!!"? We lost three starters. How many starters did we lose from 06 to 07? Three seems on the smallish side for turnover anyway. That shouldn't break a fucking defense.
There is absolutely no reason to keep Shafer on anymore...the man can't coach his way out of a paper bag. How do you let a 2 win team with a third string QB (RB!) put up 48 points on you!??
One question I have for knowledgeable people...Why were our corners just watching the QB when they backpedalled with complete disregard for the WRs? Is that just zone? There were a countless number of times Trent, Cissoko, Warren, would be in the back pedal watching then qb, the WR would run an out underneathe the coverage and pick up an easy 10 yards.
To be fair, Siller isn't that bad. He looked way better than Threet ever has.
Our D made him look good.
only because our D let's him look that good
you are covering an area not neccessarily a reciever.
So you back pedal or drop into a zone and spy the quarterback, but you can't give that much cushion to WR and let them run 5 yd outs all day.
This game was alot like Toledo but with better players.
It's silly and dangerous to plow through a coach in just one year, especially when that year is one of transition all across the program. Yes, Shafer has not made this defense perform up to expectations. And yes, that has lead to more losses than we probably would have deserved otherwise. But firing him right now would be counter-productive and set this program back even further. If he continues to underperform next year, than fine shake him loose. But we are too unstable as a program right now to go hiring and firing willy nilly.
There is an incredible amount of stupid oozing from this thread.
I love how the standard retort to any kind of criticism of the coaching is "you're stupid."
Okay Ryan, maybe we are stupid. Would you please enlighten us, then as to why we should be happy with a defensive coordinator whose unit is surrendering 31 points per game (37 ppg if you toss out the two MAC opponents)?
Look, I like Rich Rod, but he's a human being. He'll make some mistakes. Hiring Shafer is looking like one right now.
Was there any sort of adjustment on D this entire game?
the decision point should has to be based on recruiting. I agree that Shafer is turning out to be a huge, enormous disappointment. But if it negatively affects recruiting AND accomplishes nothing in the short term of this season, then why fire him at this point?
I would bet that they keep him one more year and that the team will improve dramatically.
why? they've only gotten worse as the season goes on
Teams have gotten better as the season goes on. We lose 5 guys on the defense, but we have Mike Martin and hopefully Will Campbell to fill the center of the line and Booboo should be an improvement over Morgan Trent. We should be returning an experienced class of LBs and hopefully they improve greatly during the offseason. Our safeties could not possibly be any worse than this season and we will hopefully improve in this area. Overall I am looking at a small improvement in CBs, improvements in LBs, improvements in Ss, and a small decrement in play from the DLine. I just think our defense will be better next year.
Also, I don't think we get rid of Shafer at the end of the year, because the offense has kept our defense of the field for way too much time this year. I think he gets a fair shot next year.
It's silly and dangerous to plow through a coach in just one year, especially when that year is one of transition all across the program.
We are talking about an assistant coach here. There's a big, big difference between firing a head coach and firing an assistant. Changing one assistant does not bring that much instability. Minnesota canned its DC last year - one year after a head coaching change - and they sure don't regret it.
Minnestoa's turnaround is more attributable to an infusion of JUCO players (not gonna fly in Ann Arbor) and an absurdly lucky turnover ratio. Sure the new DC deserves some credit, but as with any coach, a lot of his success comes from more than just his playcalling.
this just in...every 2009 DB just de-committed
scott shafer wears sweater vests!
That's enough for me. Fire him!
He did graduate from the same school as The Sweater Vest.
Too soon. Most of the time, there was a player in position to make a play for a minimal gain, and sloppy tackling and bad angles wouldn't allow it. This is on the posistion coaches if anything. Additionally, a lot of these drives probably aren't on the defense at all. There was a bullshit PI call on Warren that extended one drive, a fake punt that extended another after a three and out, and a few drives that started inside Michigan territory. That pins an awful lot of points on poor special teams play.
Giving up over 500 yards to such an awful opponent is certainly a poor performance, but this is as much on the players/posistion coaches as on Schafer. No scheme works when your players don't tackle and your defense spends 3/4 of the game on the field. Schafer may work out and he may not, but lets go ahead and give him a fair shake.
Yeah, you're right. We should probably hire someone to coach our kids how to tackle.
There is no reasonable explanation for giving up 500 yards AGAIN. especially to the offense a horrible team. The constant regression of the defense over the course of the season is most certainly on the coaches.
I supported shafer until this game. The only, only way I think he should not be fired is if Rodriguez comes out and says he dictated that shafer run the 3-3-5 the whole game to see what they had. Anything else....you have to fire him. This is the worst defense in the history of michigan football. the. worst. ever. with 8 returning starters and probably 3 nfl players on the d-line and potentially warren and cissoko in the backfield. horrible.
Why constantly take Graham off the field?
Why take Mouton - arguably the most improved player on the defense over the course of the year - off the field in favor of Austin Panter and Marel Evans who both had their shot at starting and stunk it up horribly?
It does not make any sense.
It is not that there is a reasonable explanation for giving up the yards, it is that I'm not sure this is enough to fire Schafer. Yeah, the defense has been terrible. Today, the scheme was uncharecteristically terrible. It is one game in a garbage season. If they really put the wood to Purdue today, that would make everyone want to keep Schafer? Let's not get carried away here.
As for Rod telling us he forced Schafer to run the 3-3-5, he doesn't owe us shit. He doesn't have to tell us how the administratvie system inside the football team works. If he thinks a change needs to be made, he will make it.
Graham was a little dinged up, perhaps he wasn't able to play the entire game. Mouton is the most improved player against the run. He can't drop into zone worth a damn. If you scouted Purdue's offense, I'm sure you would want someone who was able to drop into zone.
Maybe he is the right fit and maybe he is as bad as he looks. One Saturday in one garbage, throw-away of a season isn't justification for his termination.
I think you missed this sentence: "This is the worst defense in the history of Michigan football."
Look up the statistics. It is true. There is no way this should happen with 8 returning starters the quality that they have. that is on the coaches.
the horrendous play of the defense all season is why shafer whould be fired, not 'one saturday', although you could probably justify it by giving up the most points to a purdue team EVER with a 3rd string QB who was playing running back earlier in the year.
oh, and btw - check the post game audio: Rodriguez said they switched to the stack. hmmm
Is Shafer a part of the overall failure of this tems defense? Yes, but he is only a part of it. One of the bigger parts is the near complete and utter failure of one of the most talked about defenisve lines in the country coming into this year. The only one of the four who has lived up to his end of the bargain so far has been Graham. The second issue lies with the lack of capable linebackers we had through the first five games or so, but we seem to have a decent core in there now, there was just a horrible rotation of unprepared, unqualified LBs splitting time earlier this year. Finally, the biggest problem lies with the secondary. Trent "seemed" to have improved as last year went on, but this year he has proven time and time again that he is the same CB that played in 2006. Brown goes unmentioned because we already know about him. Aside from Warren, who seems to haveing aome troubles of his own this year, the secondary is completely lacking in ATHLETES. Corners and safeties have to be the most physical athletes on he field, and Michigan has failed time and time again to land elite defensive backs. The Michigan safety hating God issues have been well-documented, but the fact is that Warren and Harrison are the only two starters that I care for right now. There really should be no reason that some of these DBs never see the field again. This safety cand DB class coming in really needs to step up, because the secondary has been Michigan's achilles heel for years, lets hope some of these kids come through.
Secondly, look at a team like Florida or USC. They play so many ATHLETES out of position but they make it work. Florida right now has running backs on their special teams COVERAGE units because these kids can get to the returner before the ball does, how many times has Michigan accomplished this recently? Similiar situation at USC, that is why they are able to take an almost unlimited number of five-star running backs and recievers at any moment. Look at their recruitng classes recently, they have a wide-reciever roster that is like six deep with five-stars, similiar situations with offensive and defenive lineman. They just get as many ATHLETES as possible and move them around and put them in wherever they can. It starts with recruiting and Michigan has failed miserably with recruitng ATHLETES under Carr, hopefully this will change with Rich Rod, but time will tell.
Bottom line: Shafer can only do so much. The 3-3-5 is not to blame, how has Michigan looked with the four-man front this year? 2-6 with the four man front, that is not the issue, the entire defense is the issue. Shafer (1/3) + lack of athletes (2/3) = this years defense.
I love how it's never the coaches' fault when an experienced defense, nine games into the season, still can't tackle. I guess the players should be teaching themselves?
You can teach a player all you want, its up to them if they ever do it.
We all went to high school, we all sat in the same algebra, spanish, and science classes, the teachers gave us all the information we needed for the tests, but did we all get straight A's? No. Our teachers can only give is the tools, it is up to us to utilize them.
So if the coaches just tell their players to tackle, they are going to do it? Right? Do you not think that tackling is addressed at meetings and practices? Do you think they just ignore the problem?
As much for for it is to call for someone's head, the issues with this defense lie on more than just 1 person. This is a team issue, not just Shafer.
the problem is that nobody is getting A's. if that happened in school the teacher would be fired.
The point is that everyone has the same potential for learning and everybody has an equal chance at getting A's. Does everyone step-up and achieve? No.
There is always that group that is perfectly happy getting C's and graduating with a 2.01 GPA. These kids = our defense.