Looks like it was an AA News photo:
...says Denzel Valentine of Big Ten Tourney favorite MSU, which is 5-7 in its last 12 games. Cumong, man.
There will be significant attrition this offseason. The first to fall:
In today’s weekly Big Ten teleconference, Michigan coach Rich Rodriguez said sophomore Zion Babb was no longer with the team. Rodriguez said the wide receiver hasn’t been with the team since Sunday.
So… yeah. I was sitting on this until I had some outside confirmation and this serves as outside confirmation since three guys were mentioned as a group of players who had already made their decisions. The other two who have told the coaches they are out: sophomore LB/S Artis Chambers and Sam McGuffie.
Okay. Done panicking? Some context for this information:
How solid is it? Very solid. Three sources very close to the situation.
How official is it? It is not official until it is official. Earlier this year I said freshman RB Mike Cox was transferring based on equally solid info, but Cox reversed course and decided to stick out the year. Until someone actually enrolls somewhere else there is always the chance for a reconciliation.
Is this the end of it? No. The rumors are flying fast and furious about a couple guys buried on the depth chart; I don't have confirmation on anyone else and at this point I think they're still on the fence.
Looks like it was an AA News photo:
Bingo. Throw out the fact that he, by his own admission, has a hard time meeting new people and getting close with people, the fact his grandmother died, the fact that he's in his first Michigan winter, and the fact that he's physically hurt.
Concussions, on their own, are known to lead to extended bouts of depression. This is just a bad time for this kid, and he's probably very unhappy.
Which is why I hold out hope. McGuffie's always been a little uncertain. He was uncertain on signing day and now he's got more stuff going on at once than I ever have in my life.
The season ends in a week, he doesn't need to transfer right away. Hopefully he'll feel a bit better in a few weeks.
...i thought something similar, and immediately thought of john anes, who played and contributed as a freshman but dealt with depression and ultimately had to leave the program.
probably my favorite thing ever about lloyd, by the way. it was clear anes wouldn't be able to come back, but lloyd stuck with him all the way, kept him on scholarship, and helped him find a place at grand valley. yet another example of why lloyd was a credit to the program in ways that the mouthbreathing morons never understood.
Yeah, I get depressed every year when the weather changes and I've lived in Michigan and Ohio my whole life. If it was my first time dealing with it I might want to go home too. As Chi said, it is "the perfect storm of shittiness"
this sucks. losing all 3, not just sam. i had high hopes for artis chambers too. this sucks.
With Chambers, it might be a PT issue. As troubling as our safeties have been, we haven't even caught a glimpse of chambers. maybe he's going I-AA or something. If this is the case, I don't think it will make a big difference.
I agree that losing game-experienced players is a big deal, no question. But it is not NECESSARILY an indictment of the current coaches. I'm just waiting to hear reasons. That said, in a few interviews I've seen and read about McGuffie, the "depression" comment above actually did cross my mind. He strikes as very alone. No one should have to go through that, football or not, and if he really is having thsoe problems, he should transfer to be happier.
Just got that text back from my friend... He asked a player on the football team if Sam was transferring...
He's not calm down!
Lots of sources to the contrary. I hope you're right.
From people that ACTUALLY know him and other players.... They could be wrong and they might not know yet.. But the player in question is good friends with him...
So yes I believe it
Good. I'd like to see him stay...
Thanks for the info.
FTR: there's a message board thread by bouje here:
In it he notes that he's gotten multiple texts to the effect he's out.
I have sources that know him better than friends, and I can tell you for a fact that I know what was said by the coaches and him. He might not end up leaving, but I can say with confidence that my sources are closer than you think, and that he did tell Fred Jackson he was leaving. I'm not sure what you mean by people that ACTUALLY know him, but Brian nor I would post anything we didn't research HARD first.
All the players may not know yet. I'll still assume he's gone until I hear otherwise from him or a coach.
Dr. Spaceman thinks that scoring a touchdown at the Horseshoe would be a good prescription for what ails Sam. Of course, who knows if that would help, medicine isn't a science.
Maracle: "The season ends in a week, he doesn't need to transfer right away. Hopefully he'll feel a bit better in a few weeks."
I couldn't agree more. Some time and perspective, and a Christmas at home (I don't know much about his home life, just have heard that it's rough) may help ease these sorts of things.
Well this just got interesting.....
Both Artis Chambers and Sam Mcguffie are still on the team and have not made any announcements either publicly or privately on leaving the team.
I am definitely surprised but if he does leave for reasons of missing home, not fitting in, and so on so forth I wish him the best of luck where ever he ends up at. Hopefully he doesn't leave and say something bad about Michigan.
We are pretty deep in the RB department but this still hurts as him and Shaw as juniors and seniors in a couple years seems like a great combo in the backfield.
Anyway I hope Sam takes some more time and get away from the death in his family to make a sound decision of what is best for him and his future.
I know my thoughts and prayers are with the McGuffie family in this hard time.
We like our heroes as humans, as flawed. If the speculation is correct and Sam is having second thoughts for whatever reason, just think of the strength it will take to get past it.
We either get a stronger, reenergized McG out of this, or he goes somewhere else that allows him to do what is best for himself and his family.
In any case, there is nothing to worry or get upset about.
I completely agree. I'll be disappointed in it as a fan because I really enjoy watching him play, but as a person I fully agree that he should make the best decision for himself, which at the end of the day, either way will be the best decision for the team.
I don't think a transfer is legitimate under "any" circumstances, but it is under many. While I certainly believe that these kids sign up to be part of a team, and have the responsibilities that go with that, they are also kids. They chose their school at age 17 or 18, and sometimes make a bad decision or a decision that doesn't work out for them in the way that they'd hoped. They only get one shot at this. One chance to play. One chance to make the NFL (if that's their realistic dream). While I think a third-string QB adds something of value to a team, particularly when it's someone like Scott Loeffler who probably half coach even then, if it was my son and he just wanted to PLAY FOOTBALL before he never could again, I'd encourage him to transfer somewhere that could happen. I'd make him stick out the year, but then he could transfer if he wanted to.
To me, there's always something sad about seeing a senior riding the pine. If that was a kid that wanted to play, I wish he could have evaluated things accurately enough to go somewhere where he could. I'd probably care less if this was basketball, where there are adult leagues out there that are amazing, but once you're done with college ball, you're DONE (for hte most part). That's tough for those who love the game.
He showed flashes as at the very least a solid third down catch the ball out of the backfield back. Plus, it's always exciting to have 1 of the 3 white running backs in BCS football. This just adds to the overall sadness of the 2008 campaign.
I'm sorry, Tom. My comment wasn't directed at you or Brian (if you're responding to me). It was directed at the poster who talked to or texted another player. That's what I won't believe - that Sam is staying until yours or Brian's sources confirm that he has decided to stay. You guys are careful, which I for one appreciate.
No problem, I wasn't sure if the whole credibility thing was coming back into play here. I admire everyone for being a huge fan, and I would be skeptical too, but we won't lead you the wrong way. We aren't here to start rumors, and I promise you that reporting this was very hard for the both of us, since it is not good news.
players.. it doesn't look good.. I'll let you guys know if I hear anything else..
to make like the flasher who was considering retirement?
and decided to stick it out for one more year. teeheehee
Credibility is a funny thing here, anyway. The only thing that is ever "certain" are those statements made on the record by the coach or the admins, but at the same time, those are not always the whole or complete "truth." Therefore, the blog posts that are contradicted by the coach's statements may prove to be accurate, even if the coach changes the story for some reason.
This story, unfortunately, makes enough sense to be very true. I hope we hear otherwise, and the passage of time helps, but it could be that McG is off to warmer home pastures. If so, I wish him well.
Well, we want everyone to remember that this is what Sam said, but he can always change his mind. Sometimes people get that mixed up as well. The coaches will talk to him, his parents will talk to him, and he could change his mind. However, this is what has happened as of now.
Or is it just contacts of coaches?
Right. And we all know how most 18-19-20 year olds can change their minds.
In times like these I wish Lloyd would step in and say something to these guys...I mean it was in fact him who recruited Sam. You know if Bo was still around he would be in these guys ears everyday. I just think an outside individual stepping in would really help out. Like how about Desmond...this is the perfect week for him to come back say a little something about how great Michigan is and how sweet it was to do the Heisman on OSU. I just think we really need a miracle right now...GOD THIS SUCKS!
It was more so Fred Jackson that recruited him, and by his public comments, it doesn't sound like he's too impressed.
lloyd has told a lot of kids to stay
Lloyd was also well known for calling kids who moped around in and handing them transfer papers, telling them to make up their minds if they want to be here or not.
...he'll be missed. But the truth is, McGuffie will never be the player we know he can be if he is depressed. It's better for him to play where he is happy and comfortable.
Though if he fights through whatever is going on, stays and wins, it will be that much better for him. And us.
This WOULD be a perfect time for Lloyd, Desmond, Woodson, Biakabatuka, etc. to return to rally the troops. Does anyone know whether any plans like this are afoot?
I was at the Wisconsin game this year and my old man and I went to downtown AA for dinner after the game. Following that, we walked back to our hotel. On the walk, we passed a number of guys on the team heading downtown after showering up. They were all jubilant and high fiving people.
Trailing them all was McGuffie. I recognized him and (a little drunkenly) pointed at him and said "Great game. Great." He seemed more embarrassed than enthused and just nodded, half smiling.
Obviously, I don't know anything about the kid other than what I've read on the internet (I'm not a student and don't have any inside info), but I thought that may have been telling. I mean, I dunno. Maybe that's the way he is or maybe he was having an off-day, but I would have thought he'd be more excited after that.
I hope he changes his mind. If not, my best to him for giving Michigan a shot. When he was on the field he was a lot of fun to watch and he's got an exciting future wherever he ends up. Good luck, and my condolences to him and his family for his personal loss.
Until it's official, it's all BS....there have been so many rumors this year going on it's getting fairly annoying now. Here's the deal, if they want to stay and play for Mich football, great...if not, don't let the door hit you on the way out. You never want someone on your team that isn't fully committed. McGuffie would be a great addition no doubt, but Shaw is doing great and so is Minor. There are other great RBs out there as well. I'm not saying I wouldn't want McGuffie to stay because he would be a great addition, but his leaving wouldn't be the end of Mich's season
Correct me if I'm wrong but Babb is also a track athlete. Is he leaving the football team, or Michigan altogether?
the view from 35,000 feet is bad enough. But for Sam McGuffie to want to leave the UofM and the Michigan football program, things would have to be either pretty dire with the program itself (relationship with coaches, team chemistry, team anger, etc.), or with the campus life (too cold? Dude, Texas gets cold too!), or home life. I suspect this is due to a combination of factors. A death in the family can really change things for a young kid hundreds of miles away from home. There are things more important than football. Family is one of those important things. But Sam should take care of himself first and foremost and get things "back to good".
It doesn't look good when a highly touted recruit like that leaves after one year but he has his issues. We can hope they do not involve the coaching staff or the program's direction that scared him off. The team as a whole will be fine w/o him. We have Minor and Brown for another year. Shaw coming on strong and a couple recruits coming in next year. We have RB's and talented ones. We have to play them and see what works.
.....is anybody out there....i am looking at you Brian and Tom......
Hearing anything about Stonum and D-War leaving.
There are whispers on the street about those two.
Like mythic proportions....
SKY IS FALLING!!!!!!!
okay, actually this is to be an asshole, but it's only because i'm depressed.
I've also heard rumors about the following players:
Tony Anderson CB / 5-11 181 So./Fr. Redondo Beach, Calif. (Redondo Union)
26 Zion Babb WR / 6-1 189 So. 12/10/88 Alhambra, Calif. (Alhambra)
92 Greg Banks* DE / 6-4 258 Jr./So. Denver, Colo. (Montbello)
56 Ricky Barnum OL / 6-2 265 Fr. Lakeland, Fla. (Lake Gibson)
30 Chris Berry P / 6-3 205 Jr./So. East Kentwood, Mich. (East Kentwood)
46 Jon Bills TE / 6-3 225 So./Fr. Farmington Hills, Mich. (North Farmington)
23 Carlos Brown** RB / 6-0 213 Jr. 04/28/88 Franklin, Ga. (Heard County)
3 Stevie Brown** S / 6-0 209 Jr. 07/17/87 Columbus, Ind. (Columbus East)
85 Carson Butler** DE / 6-5 250 Sr./Jr. 08/21/87 Detroit, Mich. (Renaissance)
22 Bobby Centlivre CB / 6-0 180 Jr./So. Plymouth, Mich. (University of Detroit Jesuit)
38 Artis Chambers S / 6-0 202 So. 07/18/88 Fort Wayne, Ind. (Snider)
33 Boubacar Cissoko CB / 5-9 175 Fr. Detroit, Mich. (Cass Technical)
61 Zac Ciullo OL / 6-1 268 So./Fr. Bloomfield Hills, Mich. (Brother Rice)
17 Toney Clemons* WR / 6-3 201 So. 10/11/88 New Kensington, Pa. (Valley)
12 David Cone QB / 6-7 214 Jr./So. 12/13/87 Statesboro, Ga. (Statesboro)
89 Jon Conover* WR / 6-3 199 Jr./So. Northville, Mich. (Catholic Central)
15 Michael Cox RB / 6-0 206 Fr. Dorchester, Mass. (Avon Old Farms)
88 Andre Criswell** DE / 6-2 264 Sr./Jr. 03/21/86 Detroit, Mich. (Renaissance)
25 Kenny Demens LB / 6-1 226 Fr. Oak Park, Mich. (Detroit Country Day)
79 Perry Dorrestein OL / 6-7 308 Jr./So. 09/11/87 Plainfield, Ill. (Plainfield Central)
35 Doug Dutch** CB / 5-11 204 5th Sr. 02/15/86 Bowie, Md. (Gonzaga College)
30 Shakir Edwards* S / 6-0 210 5th Sr. 03/01/86 Detroit, Mich. (Martin Luther King)
9 Marell Evans* LB / 6-3 231 So. 01/09/89 Richmond, Va. (Varina)
45 Obi Ezeh* LB / 6-2 247 Jr./So. 02/02/88 Grand Rapids, Mich. (Catholic Central)
3 Justin Feagin QB / 6-0 190 Fr. Deerfield, Fla. (American Heritage)
74 John Ferrara* OL / 6-4 274 Jr./So. 01/07/88 Staten Island, N.Y. (Monsignor Farrell)
51 Mike Fish LB / 6-0 201 Jr./So. Kalamazoo, Mich. (Hackett Catholic Central)
42 J.B. Fitzgerald LB / 6-3 230 Fr. Princeton Junction, N.J. (West Windsor Plainsboro)
12 J.T. Floyd CB / 6-0 190 Fr. Greenville, S.C. (J.L. Mann)
34 Jason Gingell* K / 5-9 194 5th Sr. 12/30/85 Northville, Mich. (Catholic Central)
24 Kevin Grady** RB / 5-9 228 Sr./Jr. 06/24/86 Grand Rapids, Mich. (East Grand Rapids)
55 Brandon Graham** DE / 6-2 270 Jr. 04/03/88 Detroit, Mich. (Crockett Technical)
59 Sean Griffin* LS / 6-2 243 5th Sr. 03/04/86 Livonia, Mich. (Catholic Central)
59 Paul Gyarmati LB / 6-2 225 Fr. Birmingham, Mich. (Brother Rice)
27 Brandon Harrison*** S / 5-9 206 Sr. 11/06/86 Dayton, Ohio (Chaminade-Julienne)
39 Will Heininger DE / 6-6 239 So./Fr. Ann Arbor, Mich. (Pioneer)
32 Vince Helmuth* FB / 6-1 261 So. 12/11/88 Saline, Mich. (Saline)
21 Junior Hemingway* WR / 6-1 214 So. 12/27/88 Conway, S.C. (Conway)
58 Brandon Herron LB / 6-2 218 So./Fr. 08/02/88 Stafford, Texas (Dulles)
34 Avery Horn RB / 5-10 185 So./Fr. 02/25/89 Hanford, Calif. (Hanford)
72 Mark Huyge OL / 6-6 292 So./Fr. Wyoming, Mich. (Catholic Central)
90 Tim Jamison*** DE / 6-3 263 5th Sr. 02/26/86 Riverdale, Ill. (Harvey Thornton)
19 Zach Johnson CB / 6-2 197 So./Fr. Morenci, Mich. (Morenci)
97 Will Johnson*** DT / 6-5 285 5th Sr. 11/09/85 Oakland, Mich. (Lake Orion)
93 Jason Kates DT / 6-2 339 Jr./So. 06/14/88 Harrisburg, Pa. (Bishop McDevitt)
63 Rocko Khoury OL / 6-5 280 Fr. Traverse City, Mich. (Traverse City West)
26 Nick Koenigsknecht S / 5-10 178 Jr./So. Davisburg, Mich. (Orchard Lake St. Mary's)
86 Kevin Koger TE / 6-4 220 Fr. Toledo, Ohio (Whitmer)
52 Kevin Leach LB / 6-1 202 So./Fr. Kentwood, Mich. (Grand Rapids Catholic Central)
46 Brandon Logan** LB / 6-1 208 Sr. 02/17/87 Lexington, Ky. (Lexington Catholic)
84 K.C. Lopata* K / 6-2 233 5th Sr. 02/11/86 Farmington, Mich. (Farmington)
68 Mike Martin DT / 6-2 285 Fr. Redford, Mich. (Catholic Central)
83 Mike Massey*** TE / 6-5 225 5th Sr. 06/16/85 Brecksville, Ohio (St. Ignatius)
13 Greg Mathews** WR / 6-3 207 Jr. 01/28/88 Orlando, Fla. (Edgewater)
62 Tim McAvoy* OL / 6-6 288 Sr./Jr. 06/15/87 Bloomington, Ill. (Bloomington)
43 John McColgan FB / 6-1 220 So./Fr. Saginaw, Mich. (Nouvel Catholic)
2 Sam McGuffie RB / 5-11 185 Fr. Cypress, Texas (Cy-Fair)
57 Elliott Mealer OL / 6-6 280 Fr. Wauseon, Ohio (Wauseon)
41 Zoltan Mesko** P / 6-5 235 Sr./Jr. 03/16/86 Twinsburg, Ohio (Twinsburg)
38 Mike Milano RB / 5-7 193 Sr./Jr. Rocky River, Ohio (Rocky River)
4 Brandon Minor** RB / 6-1 214 Jr. 07/24/88 Richmond, Va. (Varina)
50 David Molk OL / 6-2 282 So./Fr. 12/15/88 Lemont, Ill. (Lemont Township)
88 Brandon Moore TE / 6-6 221 Fr. Trotwood, Ohio (Trotwood-Madison)
60 David Moosman OL / 6-5 292 Sr./Jr. 09/02/86 Libertyville, Ill. (Libertyville)
73 George Morales LS / 6-0 268 Fr. North Las Vegas, Nev. (Mojave)
44 Mark Moundros* FB / 6-1 232 Jr./So. 12/16/87 Farmington Hills, Mich. (North Farmington)
8 Jonas Mouton* LB / 6-2 230 Jr./So. 03/17/88 Los Angeles, Calif. (Venice)
89 Tim North* DE / 6-1 260 Sr./Jr. 06/23/86 Linden, Mich. (Linden)
70 Bryant Nowicki OL / 6-9 326 Jr./So. 03/30/88 Bay City, Mich. (John Glenn)
9 Martavious Odoms WR / 5-9 171 Fr. Pahokee, Fla. (Pahokee)
92 Jason Olesnavage K / 6-5 214 Sr./Jr. 09/18/86 Ferndale, Mich. (Ferndale)
65 Patrick Omameh OL / 6-4 260 Fr. Columbus, Ohio (St. Francis DeSales)
78 Dann O'Neill OL / 6-7 295 Fr. Grand Haven, Mich. (Grand Haven)
50 Ohene Opong-Owusu LB / 6-2 233 Sr./Jr. 10/22/83 West Bloomfield, Mich. (Walled Lake Western)
71 Mark Ortmann* OL / 6-7 294 Sr./Jr. 06/24/86 Klein, Texas (Klein)
54 Austin Panter* LB / 6-3 231 Sr. 12/18/86 Butler CC Athol, Kan. (Butler CC) (Kensington)
99 Adam Patterson** DE / 6-3 259 Jr. 12/09/87 Columbia, S.C. (Richland Northeast)
91 Tom Pomarico OL / 6-4 248 So./Fr. Jackson, Mich. (Lumen Christi)
35 Jimmy Potempa RB / 5-7 175 So./Fr. Mundelein, Ill. (Carmel Catholic)
21 Jordan Reilly S / 5-10 185 So./Fr. Taylor, Mich. (Kennedy)
37 Ricky Reyes WR / 5-11 170 Jr./So. Macomb, Mich. (Dakota)
7 Terrence Robinson WR / 5-9 170 Fr. Klein, Texas (Oak)
25 Doug Rogan S / 6-1 185 So./Fr. Grass Lake, Mich. (Grass Lake)
18 James Rogers* WR / 6-1 180 So. 05/27/89 Madison Heights, Mich. (Lamphere)
16 Roy Roundtree WR / 6-0 154 Fr. Trotwood, Ohio (Trotwood-Madison)
95 Renaldo Sagesse* DT / 6-4 308 So. 12/23/86 Montreal, Quebec (Vieux Montreal)
82 LaTerryal Savoy* WR / 6-3 210 Sr./Jr. 04/26/86 Mamou, La. (Mamou)
52 Stephen Schilling* OL / 6-5 295 Jr./So. Bellevue, Wash. (Bellevue)
97 Scott Schrimscher K / 5-10 186 So./Fr. Canton, Mich. (Catholic Central)
20 Michael Shaw WR / 6-0 185 Fr. Trotwood, Ohio (Trotwood-Madison)
8 Nick Sheridan QB / 6-1 212 Jr./So. 05/21/88 Saline, Mich. (Saline)
23 Floyd Simmons S / 5-10 185 Fr. Detroit, Mich. (Crockett Technical)
28 Brandon Smith S / 6-3 210 Fr. New Brunswick, N.J. (New Brunswick)
5 Charles Stewart*** S / 6-2 206 5th Sr. 03/11/86 Farmington Hills, Mich. (Harrison)
22 Darryl Stonum WR / 6-2 190 Fr. Stafford, Texas (Dulles)
67 Terrance Taylor*** DT / 6-0 319 Sr. 05/14/86 Muskegon, Mich. (Muskegon)
32 Karl Tech S / 5-10 191 So./Fr. Grosse Pointe, Mich. (Grosse Pointe North)
96 Mike Therman TE / 6-4 236 Jr./So. 07/20/87 Ann Arbor, Mich. (Pioneer)
49 John Thompson*** LB / 6-1 239 5th Sr. 02/10/86 Detroit, Mich. (Crockett Technical)
10 Steven Threet QB / 6-6 230 So./Fr. Adrian, Mich. (Adrian)
14 Morgan Trent*** CB / 6-1 188 5th Sr. 12/14/85 San Diego, Calif. (Orchard Lake St. Mary's, Mich.)
53 Ryan Van Bergen DE / 6-6 265 So./Fr. 03/18/89 Whitehall, Mich. (Whitehall)
6 Donovan Warren* CB / 6-0 180 So. 01/31/89 Long Beach, Calif. (Polytechnic)
81 Steve Watson TE / 6-4 242 So./Fr. 05/05/88 Cherry Hills Village, Colo. (Mullen)
80 Martell Webb* TE / 6-4 249 So. 11/10/89 Pontiac, Mich. (Northern)
64 Kurt Wermers OL / 6-5 260 Fr. Crown Point, Ind. (Crown Point)
40 Michael Williams S / 5-11 185 So./Fr. 07/16/88 Santa Yuez, Calif. (St. Bonaventure)
29 Troy Woolfolk* CB / 6-0 195 So. 07/24/89 Sugar Land, Texas (Dulles)
43 Bryan Wright* K / 6-1 219 Jr./So. 03/28/88 Salem, Ohio (Salem)
75 Cory Zirbel OL / 6-5 292 Sr./Jr. 02/07/87 Murray, Ky. (Murray)