First and foremost, I'm sure RR has more football knowledge in his pinkie finger than I could ever hope to acquire throughout life. It just seems to me that some of the players that we are offering and receiving commitments from, would be understood if he was at West Virginia, but questionable at M. Tony Drake, for example, received his first offer from M. He was also interested in schools such as TCU and Boise State (I know the interested lists are horrible references). Obviously neither of those schools have near as impressive commit lists as M annually turns out, so why are we offering him so early? I understand that all schools have certain prospects that they have a feeling about or think higher of than the ranking services, but wouldn't you wait longer than 11 months before signing day to offer these kids that have less of a chance to put in contributions on the field? The recruiting rankings put out by services usually are somewhat correct in the fact that a team of 4 stars is most likely going to beat a team of 3 stars. I just don't see how a powerhouse like M is the first to offer these low ranked players instead of waiting it out to see if you could have gotten a better player who is more likely to contribute. So in a way today's commitment of Drew Dileo kind of scares me, because a player like Chris Dunkley or Kenny Shaw might see that we currently have 2-3 slot receivers in the fold in this single class and decide to look elsewhere. I wouldn't want to scare off elite players to fill out a class 9 months before signing day. Now we have two "projects" at the slot in this class instead of waiting out to fill the available scholarships with better players. Don't get me wrong, Dileo and Drake could both be All-Americans, they haven't even stepped foot on campus so I am not knocking them. I just don't see how it is advantageous to offer them so early when I'm sure there were Drew Dileos to find later in the process if the highly ranked prospects that have interest in M have chosen to go elsewhere. It's not just at the slot position I just used that as an example because of the Dileo commitment today. Again I know that RR gets paid to run the program and knows what he is doing or he wouldn't be here. I have the utmost faith that the program will be a BCS (if it's still around) bowl team for many years to come. It just seems like being at a powerhouse like M, he can afford to wait a while before offering the Drew Dileos of the world. I guess I am just looking for another opinion or two or twenty as to what his strategy is with these offers.
RR + Recruiting/Offers
I think that accurately reflects what is going on right now. Don't fret. If it doesn't work out, Rich Rod will be ushered out Stage Left and Jim Harbaugh or Steve Morrison will be coaching the Wolverines in 4 years.
verrrry speculative, but after all those mean nasty things harbaugh said i dont see him being the coach anytime soon.
..what he said would blacklist him. I think Blue would take him if they were put in a job search. At least, they'd interview him.
Steve Morrison? What is he doing these days that would qualify as head coaching material? I'm not doubting you, I truly do not know.
Harbaugh is biding his time at stanford, he is looking at the nfl for sure, I feel bad for all the recruits that have believed him when he says he's not looking to move onward and upward.
..i was doing a little research on Western Michigan earlier this week to find out how scared we should be for September 5th, and I read that he is a linebackers coach at Western. Give him 5 years and maybe he works up the ladder.
well back to OP, i totally agree. it seems strange to me that we're offering these kids so quickly. who would have guessed it, mcfalrin could be right?? but, with all that being said, this will be moot to me if we can wrangle in the 4/5 star defensive recruits who we're looking at.
True, I know we are looking good for some prospects on D, but look at the Travis Williams situation, he was offered and then committed to the coaching staff but RR told him to call sometime later (I don't remember how long he said to wait to call him) to make sure he has made the right decision. Why not wait until September to offer him in the first place if you have better talent that you hope to get? If Jeff Luc was in the same scenario as Williams, coming up for a visit and committing, I HIGHLY doubt RR would tell him to "wait on it for a few months and give me a call".
I'd really like to see what RR's "wish list" looks like. No sarcasm here (for once). It would be koo to see where he ranks these dudes.
I was reading his comments at the coaches clinic he had this year where he stated that he doesn't care about the recruiting services rankings etc...He knows what players fit his system and he offers in relation to what he thinks they can do to help. I don't disagree with any of what has been posted here. I just believe that we have to have faith in what the man is doing until it proves to not be the right thing. I know that some of these guys are the lesser likes and they jump at the opportunity to play for the block M. I think he is learning this too. He blanketed the field with a lot of offers in the hopes of snagging some good ones. It'll work out. That is how I see it. FWIW
The last recruiting class was a few guys short of a full class considering how many scholarships we had available. Combine this with the fact that the current roster is very thin at a few positions (not thin in the sense that the guys we have aren't very good, but thin in the sense that there aren't very many bodies) and it seems like this year RR is making damn sure that he gets the fullest 2010 class that he can possibly get. This is all speculative on my part, but I get the feeling that what RR really wants out of this recruiting class is numbers. Maybe the "offer everyone under the sun" strategy will be a short-term thing until RR at least feels like he has a full roster to work with.
....is that the summer will add another 15 scholarship and 8-10 preferred walk-on players to the mix, so the numbers will be beefed up. Positions which we're currently concerned about, such as safety, will have reinforcements (as for the D-line, uh, Ferrara?).
I've said this before, and I'll say it again. A TONY DRAKE WILL NOT SCARE AWAY A CORVIN LAMB, MACK BROWN, OR WHOEVER ELSE. Why does everyone think that Michigan accepting a commitment from a lesser known player means we won't get the better known player.
First of all, the better players are going to take longer with their recruitment, because more teams are recruiting them. Second, they will not look at our recruiting class, and say, oh man they've got Drew Dileo, I'm not going there. (Also, we don't lead for Kenny Shaw or Chris Dunkley, so that doesn't matter anyway)
To say that these recruits might have been ok for West Virginia, but not for Michigan is ridiculous. If I'm not mistaken, Rich Rodriguez and his "West Virginia" recruits were one win away from the National Championship game. Or how about the fact that we were in early on "bad" recruits last year, and they ended up being highly rated when it was all said and done. Is no one looking at the possibility that maybe Rich Rodriguez is good at evaluating talent for his system?
You can look at this a couple different ways. You can either freak out, thinking that for some reason having 10 recruits before summer is scary. Or, you could look at it as Michigan having a top recruiting class early in the game, after a 3-9 season. This isn't Rich Rodriguez' first rodeo.
You can be top early and slip late just due to the big names finally closing, but I don't think we are "top" even at this point in time. It is hard to complete any scoring this early, but you have to admit some other schools are filling with big names as well (e.g. Texas).
I respect the passion of the argument put forth and many of the points, just wonder if you had too many sips of the kool-aid before you were able to finish the post.
The only school that is doing better in recruiting right now is Texas. And traditionally Texas has their recruiting wrapped up early. What Tom is saying is that let RR evaluate the talent and let us judge the product on the field. We aren't in a position to say who is and who isn't good. You need to read that article by Mark Snyder, I believe that's who wrote it, in regards to our past five star recruits and how many of them panned out. You'll be surprised at who can, will and does pan out. If there is talent to be had in these kids, then it is just talent until it is molded by two things: a good program in place, this includes the right system, the right personnel to coach up said recruit in that system and a good s&c program. So more is on RR to get the talent out of the kid then someone evaluating what the talent is or isn't.
school doing better? Isn't it way to early to tell?
Also, the point is that other programs have seen these kids (specifically their in-state ones) and have passed. That's a bad sign.
Look, RR has a great track record of scouting gems, but to say that guys like Les Miles, Urban Meyer... pass on these kids that RR offers is disturbing, to say the least.
I am talking about the, oh so coveted, star rankings. Either we are on par or doing better than the top programs in relation to star rankings, save Texas. I checked a couple of days ago. I checked Florida, FSU, University of Miami, Ohio State, Alabama, Georgia, Texas, Oklahoma, Auburn, I think you get the picture. Now, I didn't use Rivals. I just went through Scouts. If you look at our class in relation to the other top programs I think all of you will be happily surprised with our current position. Now the Sooners has a better balanced class imho. But not a better ranked...well maybe theirs is better than ours right now too. But, still the argument is relevant.
Florida and USC do not stock their rosters with 3* talent, regardless of the value you hold with those services. Additionally, they typically are getting commits later so that recruit has been evaluated by a number of programs and probably offered. I am not saying that a lower ranked kid cannot excel or that RR can not find "system" kids. However, you cannot dispute the fact that we have landed kids with major school offers and kids with next to no offers or offers from lower tier schools. It cannot be a pure "system" argument since we would theoretically be offering everyone that Florida does for offense. You just can't claim "top" just due to numbers at this point nor can you claim Dileo is better than Dunkley even without the full recruiting site analysis.
No one is saying that M will have a better class than Florida or USC. The statement I made was that at this point in the game, we are doing well, better than Florida and USC. RR is recruiting players he thinks will help him win, period. That is what he should do. You think that Florida and USC are waiting to offer kids? You think they are sitting back waiting for recruiting sites to say, okay this one I like and then Pete Carroll thanks God he's bought their service before he goes out and offers the kid? C'mon, man.
Michigan's cupboard was bare. They had a 3 and 9 season. They can not afford to sit back and watch and wait until something happens before they make a move. I do understand the sentiments. I do wish that every recruit we got was a five star or high four star recruit. But can you do me a favor?...Name me the last 5 star recruit that we had that was a stud? Hell, I'll do it for you, Chad Henne.
Your logic states that Michigan shouldn't recruit anyone unless everybody else likes them. RR's argument is I am going to get them before anybody else knows about them and I am going to throw my hat in the ring for everyone they are looking at.
All I am saying is, it is early in the game. Look at Auburn's commit list. They currently have a group of one star commitments. Alabama has two one star, six three stars and two four star commits. Florida has five four stars, one five star, five three stars and a one star. USC has four four stars and two one star recruits.
All I am saying is we are okay everybody. Calm down. Now updating the commit list Florida is putting together one hell of a class. Texas has one hell of a class. Oklahoma has a pretty good class. And so do we. We are doing quite well for right now. So please calm down.
"Name me the last 5 star recruit that we had that was a stud? Hell, I'll do it for you, Chad Henne."
Hmm, not a fan of Brandon Graham, are you?
Brandon Graham was a five star. I stand corrected. Let me also say that Florida's class is better than ours as well. As it stands, I think that Texas, Florida and Oklahoma are pulling in the best classes, as far as star rankings goes.
However, I just like Brandon Graham to much to have not said anything about it. He's a beast.
Damn good show!!!! Ditto. Cosign. On spot! Spot on! And Right on!! Looks at the board* Ahhhh...What Tom just said.
Thanks for calming me, and probably a few others down with your sound outlook.
Hey, while you are here, what do you think of the fact that we already have 5 commits from WRs? I mean, I didn't think that was a position of need to begin with in this class and we already have FIVE.
Ok Tom. I agree with much that you said and appreciate your opinion, Though I do think there is a major difference between the winningest team in college FB history and WVU. If you are ecstatic about having a West Virginia level recruiting class at M than good for you (RRs last class had 7 2 star commits). You would think we could possibly haul more being the winningest program in college football history. I do think RR has been to a rodeo or two which makes sense why I said I have the utmost faith that we will be playing in BCS bowl games for years to come. Makes sense what you said about elite talent not being scared away by Drake, I wouldn't be either if I were Mack Brown. I agree that RR is great at evaluating talent for his system, what I'm saying is there is BETTER slot talent available and we already have 6 WR commits. What do we have 12 scholarships to give out to WRs? It's surprising that a recruiting guru like yourself says that Shaw and Dunkley "don't matter" because we don't lead for them 9 months before signing day. So I guess we should stop recruting anybody out there out of our 120+ offers that don't have us leading 9 months before signing day.
You're missing my point. (I'm also aware that Mack Brown plays a different position than Dileo.) Some of our current players haven't even finished their final exams yet, and we have 10 commits, 4 of which are 4 stars. This past recruiting class had 22 commits, with 8 that were 3 stars or less. Should we not have recruited them? I guess since we didn't get the top player at that position we should just throw in the towel, and not take anybody.
Explain to me how we have a "West Virginia level recruiting class." West Virginia currently has 6 commits, none of which are ranked, and 3 of which are offensive linemen. Tell me how last years class ranked against West Virgina's.
As I said previously, the better players will take more time to commit, because they have more to consider. I would love for you to show me a year where Michigan got every top recruit they went after.
You go on to say sarcastically that we should stop recruiting kids that aren't top on our list 9 months out. No, we shouldn't stop recruiting them, just like we shouldn't stop recruiting the kids that are lower on the list in case we don't get that kid.
Tom I agree with what you are saying. I am just asking why offer someone with less talent and fill the schollie so early in the recruiting process? I completely understand that we are not going to get the top player on our board at every position and expect there to be a lot of 3-star recruits in a class. I just don't get the timing of the offers this early in the process. Can we recruit someone like Dileo without offering him so that we don't use up the schollie in case someone like Shaw(example) committed? So we could then use the schollie on another position because we are stacked with numbers at WR in this class. We had a better class than WV Tom. You yourself said that it is ridiculous to think that a recruit could be ok for WV but not for M, so I thought you'd be happy with a WV level class, not that we HAVE a WV level class. Don't get me wrong WV was very successful in bowl games against major programs with better classes on paper. It all matters what happens on the field regardless, but as far as recruiting is concerned help me out with why we use the schollie so early.
The only thing I can tell you is that they offered him this early for a reason. They let him commit, instead of what they did with Travis Williams. Trust that their evaluation is more thorough than the scouting services.
We're not used to this type of recruiting, but it has proven to work before. Rich Rodriguez' job is to win football games. I guarantee you that he is doing everything in his power to make sure that Michigan wins football games.
Here's a good example for you. Penn State, the co-Big Ten champs, had 27 commits this past class. 20 of them were 3 stars or lower.
Makes sense. Thanks Tom.
Was last year a "West Virginia recruiting class"? Did Michigan sign 7 two-star commits last year? Far from it. I fully agree with Tom -- RR has a demonstrated history of signing successful players who were ignored by the top programs. Just look at Omameh -- people rave about him, but fans chastised RR for adding him to the class just to fill a spot. He was "only" a 2-star. Now he's contending for a starting spot as a redshirt freshman.
RR's teams beat Oklahoma and Georgia, respectively. If Michigan starts contending for national titles and beating proven BCS teams with "a West Virginia recruiting class," then I can only hope he starts signing similar ones in Ann Arbor.
I'm with Tom on this one
Bravo, well stated and with Authority.
I read somewhere that we have offered like 120 recruits. Is that an unusually high number for this stage of the game? It seems high to me and would lead to these commitements that have everyone a little worried. What is "normal" historically at Michigan? Or at West Virginia with Rodriguez?
is that the recruiting landscape is continuing to change. Normal now is not the same as normal ten (or even five) years ago.
We are not normal, we are unique in that we have to look nationally for recruits. If there were 30 awesome kids from Michigan maybe we wouldn't put out so many offers. You never know which out of state kid will want to be "All in for Michigan."
If the good kids have, say, between 20 and 50 offers each, offering 125 to get around 20 or so isn't as far-fetched as it may seem.
I have a feeling that it will all work out.
As far as I'm concerned, RR isn't reaching into the barrel of 3-and-lower-stars only to fill his class with the same proportions of bad, good, and great prospects that naturally litter that 3-and-lower-star landscape. No, instead (and this is where a presumptuous "I think RR is a bright guy" might be aptly inserted), I believe RR is figuratively reaching into that same barrel of 3-and-lower-stars with an exceptional affinity for (and natural ability to find) the "great" prospects that most others are passing by.
In this way, he is [read: might be] effectively "concentrating" the pool of under-the-radar types he has to look at (a group that is likely composed of oodles of crap, lots of average, and a bit of greatness) down to a pool of players that he actually desires (which is differentially proportioned, relative to the other: that is, with much less crap and much more greatness).
Addendum: I deliberately ignored RR's additional focus on marquee recruits, and I never meant to suggest that he is only focusing on "3-and-lower" star players. Instead, I was hoping to provide a [possible] mechanism by which recruiting these so-called questionable recruits might not be so questionable at all.
Of course, I did so in--quite possibly--the most convoluted way EVER. And for that there is no excuse. [Laughs because it's probably true.]
...and that calendar tells me it's only May 1. That means we have nine months until signing day.
Also, Rivals has only given out star ratings to 250 players.
Ratings will change. One (or more) of these guys will decommit, in my opinion. Some player will burst onto the recruiting scene late, a la Taylor Lewan.
Last year we got Vincent Smith and Teric Jones, both of whom were 3-stars. Smith was wowing people this spring and some people were saying he would be the #2 back this fall (those people are wrong, in my opinion, but still...). Drake and Dileo are both probably headed for 3-star territory. I don't really understand what all the fuss is about.
Kenny Shaw is headed to FSU, De'Joshua Johnson is staying down south, and so is Chris Dunkley. There are only so many slot receivers available... It's not like there are 30 Chris Dunkleys out there.
Should hit reset and start over IMO. At least 14 5*s a year.
That is unacceptable, Shock. Twenty 5*'s is the benchmark. And then, just to be charitable, we'll throw in an almost fiver as so to keep the common touch with the lesser programs.
it's surprising what a good Hard Pitch on National Exposure does for a recruit
I remember about this time last year there was an article on the Freep talking about how RR had too many recruits this early on in the year. The concern was that he would not have enough schollies left near the end of the year (or Febraury anyway) to get the kids he waned then. We still ended up with a top ten class in spite of the Freep saying RR was wrong. No matter what RR does there is no way that everyone will be happy (insert the you can please some of the people some of the time saying here). I would like for everyone who is spazzing out over the recruiting class to do an excercise with me right now. It is an easy excercise and almost anyone can do it. Step #1 breathe in. Step #2 Breathe out. repeat as needed.