I'm not understanding RR and his recruits. In 2008 all his recruits for the most part were smaller guys with a couple exceptions. Now as the 2009 class starts to take shape, all the guys are way taller and seem more like typical pro set style guys. The only exception would be Tony Drake. Why are we pretty much recruiting the reverse type of guy that we recruited in 2008? It doesn't make sense. Why can't we just have high profile players? I know RR needs players to run his offense. But I mean come on. Don't you guys think it is a little too early to be offering 3 stars offers? I think we need more highly rated recruits. For example, we go from barely 6 foot Forcier and Robinson to 6 foot 4 Gardner. We go from 5 foot 6 midget Vincent Smith to 6 foot 220 pound Hopkins.
RR Recruiting Question.
Over the weekend I wrote a post saying I kind of admired your persistence in the face of all the crap you've taken here, and a couple of others seconded, saying you had improved the quality of your posts. Now I have to take it back.
And why is that jackass? Because I have noticed something about our recruits? Go play in the road.
Yes we can notice things too. Yes we can also notice that RR knows more than all of us combined. No you think you do.
Please, for the love of God, someone tell me they know who is McFarlin. When you realize that you are that person, I need you to go f*^k him in his face.
Sadly you overlook the fact that RR's success was built with 3 star recruits down in WVU. If we win 10 games who cares if it is with a bunch of 3 or 5 stars?
I don't think star ratings really matter all that much but, if you'd like, I can give you a five star rating as a super poster?
wasn't V. Smith a 3* last year and now he's the talk of camp. Vlad was a 3* on scout, can't remember the other sites and he could be a true freshman starter. Hawthorne was a 3* and is having a good camp.
Omameh (spelling), Roundtree were only a 3* in 2008
I really don't feel like breaking down all of last years class, but RR has proven that he can find players that are not only good, but fit his system and are only 3*. At this point and moving forward, it may be best to trust his judgement instead of only agreeing with Scouts perception of players.
And if we have another bad year then what?
...it's not because the kids are 3 stars, it's because the team played badly. 5 star doesn't equal instant success, look at 2008 LSU. Experience, depth and coaching are important too.
then i guess you can go find another team to root for. as for the rest of us, we're staying. maybe if you knew more about the history and prestige of michigan football you wouldn't be such a downer. believe in blue sucka!!!
Yeah your right. Rich Rod. and friends must have no clue what they're doing.
No your right! You're write?
He doesnt care about stars, or the recruiting websites. He gets guys that will fit his system. It is all aobut speed for him, that is what we are going to win with. We are going to be faster and more agile then the other team and thats what he recruits. If they are tall and fast good, if they are short and fast good. He is going to recruit his type of player no matter how they are ranked on rivals or scout.
Same with Beilein. Everyone makes a big deal about getting highly touted recruits and all this, but who cares if we win big ten and national titles with unknown players. They will be known after they get done with they're ride through michigan.
oh and Denard is way faster then Tate.
Okay let's not get into the way faster then Tate shit. I'm no football expert but Tate outran a lot of players at the srping game. If Cone can go for 40, just wonder what Tate can do.
...because college football is one-hand touch, just like at the scrimmage on Saturday.
CONE juked out STEVIE BROWN for 40 YARDS! That just shows how good Stevie Brown is. CONE, some gumpy tall kid, jukes Brown out for 40 yards. I would never return to football if I was Brown. WOW.
Brown was in the correct position to cover the pitch man. Cone, if the defense was positioned correctly, should have run into the middle linebacker (who, you may or may not know, would have been Ezeh) when he cut back. That said, in a real live game situation, where the linebackers could actually react as opposed to pull up due to Cone's red tag, Brown would have had the chance to make a tackle. Way to take one play and denigrate Brown's progress, especially given the context.
Dude, if you glued enough feathers to D-Rob, he's fucking fly.
Since this is a blog, how bout we talk about the topic at hand. That would be awesome.
The topic at hand is ridiculous and only shows that the original poster has highly unrealistic expectations about recruiting at Michigan and most likely did not pay one bit of attention to recruiting before the 2009 class.
We are supposed to be some powerhouse right? Why does Alabama get like 5, 5 star recruits in one class? Michigan is supposed to be elite. Well come on then. Where are the 5 stars at?
Rivals gives 12 players in the class of 2010 five-stars. Twelve.
Figure that with some, we have no chance with due to geography, or a dominant local program (like Matt Elam going to Florida or Darius White likely going to Texas) and the fact that there are several programs with a MUCH stronger history of recent success (USC, Florida, Texas, etc) - you want us to get 45% of all the 5-star recruits despite this? Get real, buddy.
Alabama gets like 4 or 5 a year! Why cant we get at least 3 a year? I mean we are "Michigan" arn't we?
According to Rivals, Michigan was one of only 19 schools to get any 5-start recruits. Only 8 schools garnered multiple Rivals 5-stars recruits.
According to Scout, Michigan was one of 31 schools to get a 5-star, and one of 12 schools to get multiple 5-star recruits.
This occurred during a year when Michigan's football team went 3-9. That stink is still attached to this recruiting cycle, and yet Michigan is still out-recruiting every Big Ten team except Ohio State. Once again, you need to bring your expectations back to reality.
And why does Ohio State get a better class? Oh that is right, we have been owned by them for 5 years in a row.
I know Michigan football hasn't provided the immediate validation of your life that you so desire, but you need some patience. Rodriguez was able to reel in a top 10 (or 15, according to Scout) class despite last year being a complete mess. Just imagine when the players get some experience and there are some positive results to show.
I bet you were one of the people completely bitching out Carr in 2007 and screaming for an overhaul of the program.
Well I for one was pretty ashamed after the App. State loss and the Toledo loss.
Then you need to relax instead of complaining like a ten year old. I know the current state of the program makes it hard for you to troll 11W or bucknuts, but completely rebuilding the program is a multi-year process. Complaining about the lack of 5-star recruits is putting the cart before the horse. If Rodriguez can show some success in 2009 and 2010, higher profile recruits will be much more interested than they are now. Just be happy for now that Rodriguez kept the recruiting at Carr's level despite all the negative news this past year. It'll get better.
You're starting to sound like a troll...
Maybe you should convert to being an Alabama fan
Why did you put the word Michigan in quotes?
In fact, Michigan had five more recently than bama...
Where are the 5 stars at?
Where are all the white women at?
nicky saban is as dirty as they come in recruiting. See ncaa basketball coaches and one-and-done players for further examples.
They are not 3-star recruits. Not a single player in this class had been rated with 3-stars yet. This is a simple, yet true, fact.
McFarlin...was it lead paint chips?
Our recruiting class was ranked anywhere from 11 to 6 last year. If you compare recruiting class to actual records I think RR did pretty well. Tate is 6ft and Gardner is 6'4" because that is what they are... they are both spread QB's. V. Smith is 160lbs because he is fast and shifty and Hopkins is 210 because he is powerful, it is nice to have different looks and options.
Vincent Smith is not that fast. On Scouts and Rivals he runs like a 4.6 or 4.7. That is not fast. Sorry but he aint that fast.
another 3* that ended up being a 4* after his senior year.
not fast enough? He has had a great spring and looks like he might contribute this year. I also wouldn't trust recruiting websites 40 times, not everyone can run a 4.3 40 yard time.
..on 40 yard times found on scout and rivals, as opposed to real evidence at the spring game (such as a 25-yard touchdown run by Vincent Smith) is really disturbing.
Yeah and who did he do that against? The Michigan Defense!
...you're not a Michigan fan, are you? You can't be given the things you post. Honestly.
Notice he doesn't answer.
What do you think a scrimmage is? It's Offense vs. Defense. No shit Vincent Smith ran through a Michigan defense. Did you expect him to run through the Michigan Gymnastics team?
then Brandon Minor is faster than fucking Carlos Brown
Scout and Rivals are squarely to blame for giving morons like McFarlin unrealistic definitions of the word fast. In what fucking warped existence is running a 4.6 40 no longer considered fast?
Let's see, I saw numerous videos of Smith and saw him upclose Saturday, and he looked fast as shit. But wait, McFarlin read a fucking number off a website that isn't up to his standards so I guess everything I've seen means jack shit!
And do you realize how retardedly fake most of those times are? I know you love logging onto Rivals and creaming your jeans over 40 times, but get a fucking grip.
if you went off of those ridiculously FAKE times, then Minor is faster than Carlos Brown.
You couldn't have picked a better avatar for this situation. It is impossible for me to read that rant without hearing it in Kenny Powers' voice. LOL
William Campbell. 5 star. 2009.
A lot of these guys that RichRod recruits are not that fast. Stokes, Robinson, Forcier, Turner, Jones, Toussaint and maybe a couple others are actually fast. Most are just sub par and are leftovers.
..Will Campbell's a leftover. I'm sure Miami, LSU, Alabama and Florida felt the same way. That's why they invited him there for official visits.
You really don't know what you're talking about. At all. You really think that Taylor Lewan, Craig Roh and Michael Schofield are "leftovers?"
Go back to your parent's basement.
No Campbell wasn't a leftover but most are. You talk about all linemen. We always get good linemen. That is easy for us. But Gallon, and smith feel like leftovers. Gallon had offers from FL International. Oh man. Scary good he is!
Gallon sure looked like a "leftover" at the All American Game.
I guess you'll only be happy if Michigan gets 25 commits from five star high schoolers next year. You should be precluded from being able to cheer on this team given the trash you are talking about high schoolers who love Michigan and want to play here.
I don't know where the hell you were during the AA game week, but Gallon was one of the best players there, and very difficult for other "5 star" players to cover.
Toussaint had crap offers besides us. Toussaint is a leftover.
I can play this game, too.
How many leftovers does it take to fill a top ten recruiting class? Only you must know the answer.
therefore obviously you think folks like Speilman and Singletary could not play football. Everything about Smith so far - and remember, he is still suppose to be in high school - suggests that he is a football player, regardless of size.
Now for mental midgets like yourself, well...
Anthony Lalota. 5 star. 2009.
Anthony was part of the 2008 class....
FAIL! 2009 class, same as Will Campbell. Both were 5 stars.
Ok, so we're all agreed Lalota is from the 09 class. That being said, where did you see him ranked as a 5-star?
Rivals - 4*
Scout - 4*
Espn does not give stars
The 5-star(s) we got, according to those sites:
Rivals - Will Campbell
Scout - Will Campbell
but when he a 5 star OT. He only got downgraded to 4 stars when he went to Michigan as a DE.
what do you guys think about that new QB recruit for the 2010 class, Tom Brady?
don't ever change
Are we really having this discussion?
The fact is, the majority of 5 star prospects are located in the South and in California. Considering the most successful teams of late (LSU, Florida, Texas, USC) are all located in these areas, they'll be getting the pick of the litter. Michigan has a poor in-state recruiting base, so we have to go nationally and battle alot of these powerhouse programs for the top programs. It will be very difficult for Michigan to pull in multiple 5 stars every year. OSU has a very fertile recruting base in-state, so their classes will always be strong.
3 of Alabama's 5 star recruits were in-state, with the other 5 star being from Florida (Trent Richardson). Saban has the state locked down; Alabama also produces good talent every year.
Well if we stopped getting owned by OSU every year then more ohio recruits would get to Michigan.
....because Justin Turner, Fitzgerald Touissant, and a large number of 2010 recruits (including Williamson from Canton, Ohio) feel the way you do.
I dont really ever post on these threads but I had to say something here. So this Mcfarlin retard is the resident retard? Does he always make stupid and irrational comments just for the sake of pissing you guys off?
Pretty much since he joined. Glutton's we are.
The reason RR offers the players that he offers is that they fit his system. Ricardo Miller, for example, does not fit as a slot receiver, which we were completely lacking at first. Hence, RR went after slot-type players right away. Then came a big steal in Terrence Robinson and Martavious Odoms, plus some snake-oil trickeration in Roy Roundtree and Mike Shaw. This year guys like Jeremy Gallon and Je'Ron Stokes and probably Teric Jones were added to get the necessary depth and competition.
Bigger receivers weren't a priority. We have Heminway and Mathews, plus Stonum was already locked up when RR was hired. With Mathews on his way out and a couple of departures, more bigger receivers are needed to play the outside.
As far as running backs, some smaller backs in the Noel Devine/Jock Sanders mold are common in the RR scheme, but bigger physical backs are needed too. I can't recall the 5* big back WVU had, but for academic/disciplinary/health reasons he never really panned out for WVU; but he would have had a role. When RR came to Ann Arbor, he had Minor and Grady already in the fold, so he didn't go after bigger backs when there were needs elsewhere. Those guys are leaving and the only guy left will be Mike Cox, so replacements are needed.
Basically, RR understands his system and the type of players it needs. He doesn't give half a shit what Scout or Rivals thinks about a player. Steve Slaton and Pat White were both 3* recruits, and those two players proceeded to terrorize the Big East and bowl opponents for years.
Maybe you should give Rodriguez and his incredible track record the benefit of the doubt.
PS: Southern schools, Texas, and California have numerous 5* recruits in their backyards. Michigan doesn't. Hence, we get fewer 5* recruits. How many 5* recruits were there in the state of Michigan last year? And how many did we get? Exactly.
Beating tO$U may or may not attract more kids from Ohio. They are pretty loyal to the state school overall. Couldn't hurt though!
As far as running backs, some smaller backs in the Noel Devine/Jock Sanders mold are common in the RR scheme, but bigger physical backs are needed too. I can't recall the 5* big back WVU had, but for academic/disciplinary/health reasons he never really panned out for WVU; but he would have had a role. - dmccoy
i think you are thinking of jason gwaltney - the next all everything 5* stud to be - and then slaton blew up in his frosh year - and then gwaltney had academic & discipline problems and was never heard from again. i think he was rumored to be heading back to wvu when stewart as HC - but it never panned out.
That was the guy, thanks.
Do you know more than the coaching staff? No? Then STFU.
If in 3-4 years, the class hasn't panned out then by all means criticize RR and the coaches for not going after guys who did perform.
But the fact is, you have no idea how these recruits are going to work, but RR decided they needed to be offered, and I'll take his credibility over yours. For that matter I'd take a deaf, dumb and blind midget's opinion over yours.
You're pissed because osu can get more 5 stars and better classes than us.. And acknowledge that that's probably cuz they've beat us 5 times in a row...
How is this rr fault? You probably bitched about beileins recruiting too... Seriously rr knows more about football than I will ever know stop being an arm chair coach and have faith if not find another team cuz I think I speak for the group when I say "shut the fuck up"
Brian: You're two weeks late with your April Fool's joke. Posting with this "McFarlin" fake name might have been funny at first, but now it's just annoying people.
...is McFarlin a troll? I'm really starting to think that's the case. Every topic he brings up is just flat-out incorrect or misguided. If he's not a troll, he must be a ninth grader. I'm not even saying these things to be mean. I'm just baffled about why someone would say the things he says.
Even if he roots for Michigan, it's clear he's only posting in order to rile up the masses on the site. There's no way he reads the material posted here and pays attention to recruiting in a sane manner and then logically posts the things he shares here. If he is a Michigan fan, he's the one who called for Lloyd's head for years, then called for RR to be fired, left or turned off 2004 MSU, 2005 PSU, 2009 Wisconsin, and probably couldn't sing you the fight song. "Fan" or not, someone like this does not deserve our attention.
Yes, he has to be.
I fucking love this guy. Don't ever change.
i like mcfarlin. he says how he feels, regardless if you guys think its wrong or not. and can we drop this meme that "RR knows more about football than any of us so we cant question anything he does"
the fact of the matter is everyone in the business knows more about football than any of us. thats why they re professional coaches, but what fun would it be if we didnt disagree with them over some of their choices??? charlie weis knows more about football than all of us too. that doesnt mean hes f-ed up at nd. d'antonio knows more about football than all of us. that doesnt mean he's a little deuch. etc. etc.
yes, rr knows more about football. that doesnt mean we cant discuss some of his decisions or moves.
When it comes to going for it on 4th and 3 when your in the redzone and just need a field goal to win it, then yes we can question calls like that. When it comes to building a football team and recruiting, we can't criticize, especially when an effort has been show on RR part to go and get the 5 star guys. RR is a proven winner, with his lower profile recruits, so to question his recruiting is a little dumb, especially when you expect to get four or five five stars in your class after going 3-9. Another thing is, a lot of these high profile guys wait until later on in the process, so if it is late January and our class is full of meh recruits, then yes go ahead and criticize. Give it time though, we are two months into recruiting for next year so it is merely too soon to begin to freak out or make outrageous statements like the OP is making.
I will make this point until I'm blue in the face:
If we can say Rodriguez signed a good class or that we like a guy, then we can certainly say that we don't like a recruit (talent-wise, anyway).
Whether it's positive or negative, it's all criticism. And if we can't criticize those aspects, then this blog would receive a good deal less traffic.
You have to switch up your recruiting. Not everyone will play their freshman year, some will redshirt. recruiting the same players every year really leaves you in a world of hurt when they become Jr/Sr and then you have spaces to fill. If we only have 6ft+ receivers this year, expect smirfs next year. Flip flopping every other year is a great way to add depth. Unfortunately our depth is low so you have to take that into effect too. But imagine 3 years down the road, do you want 8-10 slot receivers on the team?
Tate loves M and ran our office so his height isn't a question, Gardiner be 6'4 and quick is a dream so you don't' pass him up either.
The grammar and spelling police would like a word with you.
Because there are so many great players in states like Florida and Texas and stars, though they are supposed to be given equally, are given regionally in a de facto sense due to the structure of rating services, I think a three star in either state would be as good as or better than a four star in Ohio or PA. Sorry for the long-winded sentence, but the gist is that there are plenty of great players in Florida and Texas, and their "leftovers" are better than a lot of the "prime meat" in midwestern and northern states.
Smith and Gallon are both gamebreakers and both would have both been given another star if they were taller. Gallon is both quick and fast, and knows the game well from having been a QB, while Smith is sneaky-fast and is one of the smartest running backs I have seen on the field.
I felt sorry for McFarlin until he started running down good recruits, but undervaluing Smith and Gallon because of star ratings is stupid at worst and naive at best. McFarlin seems to be saying, "you can trust your car to the man who gives the stars," to paraphrase on old Texaco commercial.
UM has put together two classes in a row that are better than they "should" have been. RR is remaking the roster to fit his scheme, and is doing it well. He got a bunch of fast little guys and is now getting some bigger guys to compliment them. That sounds intelligent to me.
9-3: coming to a Big House near you.
McFarlin makes a decent point that I've thought of myself. These two classes thus far seem to be composed of near-opposite players, at least physically speaking -- most of the players are markedly bigger.
Admit it -- most of you have at least thought of that in passing.
Of course, then he goes on to say, "This is dumb and we should just get 5-star guys." I decided to ignore that part. The problem with McFarlin's posts is that he doesn't know how to make a point without coming across as a whiny tool.
The disparity isn't strange at all.
We got a bunch of tiny slot guys last year - Jones, Gallon, Smith, etc. We only got one outside WR in Stokes (I think Gordon will end up on defense). But if Gordon will actually be a wide receiver, then getting Jeremy Jackson and Ricardo Miller isn't strange.
Rodriguez got Roundtree. How is he that much different than Williamson?
Rodriguez signed Michael Cox, and he had big running backs at WVU (Wilson, Gwaltney, Harris). How is Hopkins any different?
I understand that people might be upset about the "talent level" of a few of these kids, but the size stuff is irrelevant and misguided.
I'll respond in seriousness just in case you really do want answers. First, RR is not purposefully recruiting in any year based upon size. What he recruits for is the type of player that he believes best fits his system and the position, be they large or small. It's true that the shifty, quick type of player he recruits for slot back often tends to be small. At the outside WR he does go for larger guys, as do most in the country, but that again is by looking for skill rather than having size as the first criteria. Bottom line: this year's players (so far) have larger size because of position and availability, not because its a grand plan to go one way or the other. Second, he and other coaches are choosing to offer players earlier and earlier in the year because of increased competition, and often this early in the year players do not have a Rivals or Scout grade. If they do, after going through summer camps their grades often increase once more scouts get a close look at them. And sometimes increase again after going through their senior year of HS. Also, one other fact of recruiting is that if a player commits early, often he gets less attention because he may not attend an important camp, because he's not "auditioning" any more. So his grade stagnates. Lastly, the guy you mentioned are not "leftovers", mostly because of the reasons I just sited. and the recruiting services disagree with you, they all think RR is doing an excellent job of recruiting, particularly given last year.
atleast he learned how to use periods. Granted, there are too many and it's still confusing to read.
How. to. use. periods. because. i. think. it's. annoying. to. not. see. them. .
The question: "In 2008...recruits... were smaller guys... ...The 2009 class... all the guys are way taller... Why are we pretty much recruiting the reverse type of guy that we recruited in 2008?"
The answer: Because Rodriguez, after reviewing his 3-9 record last year, realized that he had it all wrong the first time.
McFarlin, I take back everything bad I ever said about you. I no longer want you to take a shot of bleach rimmed with glass chips. I want you to stay exactly the same.
This thread is all kinds of awesome!
Dude, you're a fucking idiot. Here's why:
Last years class: 2 outside WRs - one 6'1, the other 6'2.
This year's class: 4 outside WRs - one 6'1, two 6'2, another one 6'3
Last year's class: 2 DEs - one 6'6, the other 6'4
This year's class: 1 DE (kinnard is a DE) - 6'4
Last year's class: a bunch of undersized slot ninjas.
This year's class: 1 slot ninja (it's only fucking april).
So you're saying you're all kinds of confused and worried because we took a wide receiver who was an inch taller than our tallest receiver last year? Or is it because we took a DE the same height as one we took last year.
Oh, what about Devin Gardner? He's 6'4. Tate and Denard are midgets so clearly RichRod is sniffing the same glue you are! Newsome and Beaver were both about that tall according to your beloved recruiting numbers.
So what in the world were you complaining about again? I don't have the cranial capacity of some of the others here to cut through your insanity. You somehow transitioned from talking about height to star ranking and being "high profile" (as you clearly are). Are height and being "high profile" equitable or something?
Thanks for taking the time to go and actually look up the stats of these players. While it is obvious that Mcfarlin lacks the mental capacity to see the that RR recruits for talent, need, and role the actual similarity of their sizes has convinced me that Mcfarlin is nothing more than a troll and should be treated as such.
they redid after AA game. Turner and Will.
McFarlin is an unhappy individual who likely would not be happy regardless and obviously it is easier to whine for him since he does not have to answer to anyone for his performance.
And just the same, RR cannot really make the second season get here sooner. If this year and next suck, then so be it. McFarlin can go somewhere else or do something to make the change. But till then, well...we can only hope..
Oh my gosh. Thank McFarlin for making all of those who stuck up for you in the past look like jackasses in one fell swoop. And to think I lambasted Magnus for lambasting you. Now i feel like the idiot.