i appreciate the optimism nate and share it with you.
Coaches' timeouts are worse. Basketball teams should get one, full stop.
i appreciate the optimism nate and share it with you.
pointed out: this is all relative.
But here's a really good article from last year about recruiting, and final rankings: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/recruiting/football/2008-02-06-recruit-ra...
Not too many coaches (if any) did more with less, than RR did. If you get a chance check it out.
"I've done so much with so little for so long..."
"that I can do just about anything with nothing"
If things go according to plan, Coach Rod should be able to use this line starting 2010.
Its like these comments are all being written by William Shatner.
I think that there is a some truth in both what Magnus and Nate are saying. Lloyd was a good coach. No doubt about that. He was also a hellavu recruiter. It is true that we have the second most players in the league. It is also true that he put a QB in the league that is being considered as one of the best ever to play in the NFL. That is saying alot. Under his tenure we have witnessed the most prolific passer and rusher combo in the schools history. We saw the acrobats of Braylon Edwards, the tenacity of Larry Foote and the heisman striking pose of that dude Woodson in New York. With all that talent, that high level talent he only got one NC. He went under five hundred with the suckeyes and started us on our current losing streak. Lloyd was good but he lost his fire along the way and the game passed him by. And what he left, just like his legacy, was a cupboard half full for RR. Then the defectors came a plenty. Two top notch wideouts, offensive linemen, a five star Quarterback...you all know the list. I do have faith in RR maximizing his talent. I have faith in the man's system. I also can see that the guy has an ego the size of east lansing that gets in the way sometimes. He needs to dump that back in WV and drink the same Kool Aid Bo had for breakfast, lunch and then a sensible dinner. But in the end I am excited to see what this guy does.
Before you chastise Lloyd for winning "only" one national title, keep in mind that very few coaches ever win one at all, let alone more than one, in their careers. Bo had some nice talent but never won it all. Does that make him a failure?
As for Carr having the "the most prolific passer and rusher combo in the school's history," that has something to do with the fact that those two got to play a lot more games than their predecessors. I love Henne and Hart, but I wouldn't consider either to be the best in school history (or even the best of the last 20 years). They just happened to be lucky enough to start as true frosh, and stayed four years.
I agree that Henne and Hart had more opportunities, but still, being the all-time leader at ANYTHING at a program with the history Michigan has is quite an accomplishment.
Sure, but it's also true that, thanks to the combination of longer season schedules, scholarship reductions (which mean more underclassmen being pressed into service) and a general trend towards higher offensive production, almost every school in the country has had a bunch of new career offensive records set in the past 10 years.
Personally Id rather drink the kool-aid Yost drank!
He drank the blood of catholic children.
I try not to read too much into class rankings, as they tend to reflect a far level of bias and speculation, with players signing with big-name teams usually receiving a ratings "boost" that may make them appear far better than they actual are (I call this the Notre Dame effect). Plus, recruiting sites have only recently come to realize that rankings are not one-size-fits-all, as a 5-star pro-style quarterback is pretty useless in the spread, and 5'8" 4-star WRs are pretty much limited to the slot and, thus, may not work as well on teams that don't feature that position.
That said, it is telling that RR never recruited top-level classes even when his teams were finishing in the top-10 and were winning BCS games. That doesn't necessarily mean his ability to turn lead into gold at WVU will translate into diamonds with UM, but it gives me hope that he'll get good players for his system and develop them to a high level.
5'8" 4-star WRs are pretty much limited to the slot
This is actually why most 5'8 WR's don't get rated highly. Smurfs are almost always lower rated, regardless of position.
Also, there is ample documentation that shows an incredibly strong correlation between recruiting class ranking and team success in addition to recruit ranking equallying NFL success (roughly 90% of players that receive five-stars end up in the NFL). Obviously, they are at times wrong. They are, however, accurate in aggregate.
You're right - I know that smurfs are usually lower-rated (I meant to put that as 3-stars). And yes, if you receive 5 stars, that means you are one of the top 40-50 players in all of high school that year, and that certainly portends to success in the future. My point with 5-star QBs is that they are still only as effective as the system they are placed in. Mallet and Clausen were great pocket passers, but both of them would have not been as effective in a spread offense. I guess that's my point - just looking at the number of stars, without the situation, can lead to some illogical conclusions.
Tom Brady runs a spread offense in New England.
As we've seen, spread offenses run the gamut from Purdue to WVU to Texas Tech. Brady runs a modified, pass-friendly spread at times, but also plays under center and has done so throughout his career. A pro-style passer in a Purdue or Texas Tech-like offense is a far better fit than the one RR runs, which requires the QB to take off and run and be able to make plays with his feet. My whole point in this post is that merely relying on the "star" system to quantify how good a class/player is misguided.
"My point with 5-star QBs is that they are still only as effective as the system they are placed in. Mallet and Clausen were great pocket passers, but both of them would have not been as effective in a spread offense."
I think you meant spread OPTION offense.
Good catch. But you said spread with Brady, and that really isn't a spread either. Again, my point is that one-size-fits-all star systems don't work as a true barometer of success for every player on every team.
The shotgun is not the spread. I'm not disagreeing with you're star point, just saying.
Yeah, I know - I was responding to the post above's characterization. Good catch. In the NFL, though, that's about as close as I think we'll get to the "spread" anytime soon.
magnus made a good point on lloyd getting a number 1 pick, heisman winner,leading rusher, leading passer, and leading reciever..
pat white was indeed a 2/3 star...
guess what else? mike hart and braylon were 3 stars too...
lloyd won with moeller's players?!?!?!
That's just plain wrong.
Guys like Marcus Ray, Charles Woodson, Sam Sword, Andre Weathers, Rob Renes, Dhani Jones and many, many, many more contributers on that 1997 team never played a single down of football at UM with Moeller as their coach.
Lloyd stayed a year or two too long, past a point where the fire burned as hot as his competitors, but to make the above statement and also imply he caused the downfall of UM football, is ridiculous and not based in fact.
My heartbreak with Lloyd came when he said that the Henne/Hart class was the best he ever had, and they went 0-4 against UOS and 1-3 in bowls.
My 2 cents: can we please, all of us, separate Lloyd Carr pre-2003 from Lloyd Carr 2004-2007?
It's true, the game passed him by and he relied on his assistants to do things. I can't imagine his strategy as a DC under Bo was the same as what he let Ron English use ("have Ed Reed at all positions"). He trusted his assistants, and people like Debord, Andy Moeller, and Ron English putting Graham on Gonzalez totally fucked Lloyd. But in Lloyd's defense, he was fiercely loyal and always took the blame, but none of the credit. He was a tremendous man and coach that just took a step back that didn't sit well with all of us.
I think that pretty much sums it up.