This is retarded. He's not going to start...even if he does come.
this may be of some local interest
This is retarded. He's not going to start...even if he does come.
Did one of the coaches tell you that? I'm not saying you're wrong but the worst part about an opinion is when someone states it as a fact. Statements of fact about unknown outcomes is like trying to prove a point by yelling louder than anyone.
Brown, you are in no way the only person who does this but it happens so often it's ridiculous. But a lot of people give reasons for their opinion, so at least do that.
the new version of my bad? TAKE THIS GRAMMAR!
Common sense told me that. My reason - not playing a sport for 4 years might take a little something off of your game. Normally I wouldn't come out being so sure of something without giving a reason, but come on... Do YOU think he has a chance to start? If he even beats out Sheridan I will be surprised.
Talent is talent and I'm not saying he's better than Forcier but I think he's on-par or better than Sheridan. I know what we're getting with Sheridan and though he may be improved, Paulus has more talent, more maturity and more experience whether it's basketball or football. Talent is talent and Sheridan has little compared to Paulus. Again, not saying he will be better but the potential is there with Paulus and I don't think it is with Sheridan.
Didn't Sheridan start a few games last year?
Wouldn't that mean he is more experienced in college football than Paulus?
I like that Paulus is coming here. I agree with Paulus having more talent than Sheridan, but not more experience.
I didn't say football experience, though that argument could be made. In HS he probably played more games by being a 3-4 year starter and the HS all-star games. But, playing at Duke and being hated by every opposing fan gives one a form of experience that Sheridan has none of. So, really he has more experience in athletics and quite possibly in football.
KRK has a point. Opposing fans loved Sheridan (with the small exception of Minnesota).
he went 6 years in between HS and college football (7 if you count sitting on the bench most of his freshman year)....his first year as a starter (as a soph) he led FSU to a 9-1 record. we would be foolish to turn paulus away..
Remember Drew Henson? He went a couple of years quartbacking Meechigan and decided to skip his senior year.(passing up a potential heisman year and going to play for the empire.) In this case, I mean the Yankees. Then years later he came back to football and wasn't quite the same man. Now, I will give you that Henson jumped from College to the nfl and the two are worlds apart. But that is quite like what Paulus would be doing. He is going from HS football to college D1 football after taking a four year hiatus. This kid has, what, a year of eligibilty left? He will not be football ready. If he does come he'll be the side show. Just imho. Chris Weinke was surrounded by studs on offense and defense. He was playing in FSU's heyday. They were the USC of the early 90's. This is not the same situation. It is far from ideal for him to step into. I would be much more comfortable with the Forcier brothers tagging along for a year. Because, at least, they could play mentor to Tate. This kid has a HUGE learning curve. I am just not thrilled about the move. If you can get the kid to shoot some hoops, now maybe I am getting a lil woody. But throwing the pigskin...nope, notta, just ain't feeling it.
This is just amazing. I'm not saying he'll be successful, but there is literally nothing to be upset about here.
There is NO cost to this experiment. Zero, nothing. There is nothing to criticize here.
there is the actual dollar cost of a scholarship, but aside from that you're right. And, I agree completely with you. Worst case, Michigan just invested the cost of a scholarship in an intelligent young man, who provided a little bit of depth at a position where Michigan is sorely lacking. Best case, he turns out to be better than Forcier(s) or Robinson and wins the job. How is that bad? Forcier will still have three years to play and will probably be better for the experience of sitting a year and learning systems.
If the scholarship didn't go to Paulus, it would go to a walk-on. There isn't even additional monetary cost.
this situation took a very bizarre twist with forcier saying richrod didnt offer the schollie to him.
downside = the developing drama thats circulating?? what if (i understand, big WHAT IF) rr did offer, how would that be a good thing to lie to tates face? can't help with the potential qb of the future......
Well, im 21, and I graduated HS 3 years ago. When I play sports I did in HS, I play to have fun. If Paulus comes here, he will play to have fun, which is what your supposed to do. You got to be kidding me to think Paulus has not thrown a football in 4 years.
are you saying that playing NCAA Football for 4 years dont count?
While I agree that evidence needs to be provided to back up an opinion, isn't nearly all of we say on here opinion? I don't think we should feel the need to qualify all of our statements with "I think that...", or "In my opinion..."
True, but there are a lot of times when people argue against something even when cold-hard evidence is flying in their face. Also, I was more after the reason why he thinks Paulus won't play. The original comment offered nothing to discussion and that is just a waste of the internet.
Greg Paulus has thrown about a million more passes in college than Tate Forcier, Denard Robinson, and Nick Sheridan have COMBINED.
Unfortunately, bounce passes only count behind the LOS in football.
Please refrain from using "retarded." I happen to be highly retarted. Your comments offend me, although I'm so retarded I don't know why.
I would prefer we use the term "gay." This whole Paulus thing is gay, not retarded.
Everybody is retarded, it is all just a matter of how much.
Whats better than winning a gold medal in the Special Olympics?
Not being retarded!
I won a bronze in the Drool-a-thon and I felt pretty special.
Could it be that the coaches have plans to put this guy elsewhere besides QB?
I seriously doubt that, considering he has worked out for some NFL teams as a QB.
If he wanted to not play QB, he could just play for Duke.
I don't get all of the haters, how is Paulus a bad thing. He has to be in way better shape than Forcier, he's already had 4 years of college conditioning and he is 4 years older, both of which make a world of difference, Forcier most likely has a better arm, but it is not that hard to pick back up. Even if he is a backup I would already rather have him than Sheridan.
If there's anyone NOT laughing about this, it's probably Nick Sheridan.
Arm strength is way more about technique than brute strength. That's why I don't even consider arm strength to be an issue.
Besides that, he has five months from now until the beginning of the season to strengthen his arm/hone his throwing motion. So we should stop talking about arm strength.
*looks around guiltily*
Agree completely...Paulus has been in a college S&C program for 4 years, even if it was tailored to basketball he's got that plus 4 years of college level coaching and competition under his belt.
Rodriguez offered to let him compete for the starting job. If Forcier is better, then Forcier will play. It's also possible Forcier will fall down the stairs or be trampled by a pack of stampeding sorority girls or choke horribly under game pressure or fail to pick up more than a few plays of the offense or be passed out drunk while stopped at a red light or who knows what.
Paulus has 1 year of eligibility and we have an open scholarship, SIGN HIM!
and basketball conditioning are wildly different so i'm not sure why you would think paulus would be in better shape than t-force.
As far as quarterback strength training I would disagree.
Sheridan Tate and denard have been playing football nonstop for their whole lives. Paulus hasn't played in four years. If Tate had to adjust to the speed of the college game, what does thatsay for paulus who hasn't played decent organized football in 4 years. This dude is goin to be scout team the whole year.
Even though he wasn't playing football, he was playing basketball with elite athletes. He knows how fast they can run and how high they can jump. If he's going to throw a slant, he can probably tell whether the linebacker in the curl zone is going to be able to get there or not. I think the "speed of the game" issue is somewhat negated by playing against elite athletes in the ACC.
Speed of the game. Not speed of the athletes. And there is a huge different between basketball and football bro. That's a given. Or atleast I thought it was...
I didn't know there was a difference between football and basketball, bro.
Maybe when I'm coaching my football team in the future, I'll use that oblong, brown thing with the white stripes (what's that called again?) instead of that pumpkin-looking thing.
Thanks for the heads up, bro.
No problem =D
What's the distinction between the speed of the game and the speed of the atheletes? What, exactly, is moving faster, if not the atheletes? I'm really fucking confused.
that basketball is "faster" than football in the sense of as a point guard, you have nine guys confined in a relatively smaller space. Either way, he was a point guard that had to make good, quick decisions, read defenses..etc..
Bottom line, Michigan has three quarterbacks that are around six feet tall and weigh 180 pounds. Michigan needs as many guys that can contribute as possible because who knows how many could get injured.
I agree regarding the S&C program (assuming you were serious). He can come here for a year, gets some football back into his blood, and work out with Barwis, which NFL guys come to do every year anyway. It's not a bad way to change gears and get ready for the 2010 draft even if he's never a serious choice for starter.
I don't love the mercenary-esque, school-pride-be-damned popularity of transfers these days, but it is what it is. He's getting his football Masters.
You got it backwards, it's possible he could start, not probable.
To me, this isn't a big deal. If he applies and gets his eligibility, it's a one year scholarship that they get back for next year. It's the proverbial "taking a flier on a guy." If he comes in and can still play, he's a one year depth option. If he sucks, he's gone after next season.
There is absolutely no reason he should not join the team. There is no effect on our scholarships for future recruits, as well as an increased competition for the QB spot. Both of which can only help the program. If he turns out to be better then Tate, great! If he stays as a back up, then the competition should only make the starter better. Please point out a downside. BTW, there is no way the Packers or any other Div-I team would bother with this kid if he was absolutely going to suck. Think about it....
He wouldn't be eligible to play this season because he is graduating from Duke in May. He'd have to enroll in a graduate program and sit out one year in order to use his last year of eligibility.
Not true - NCAA allows you to play immediately after a transfer if you play a different sport. He can play this year.
Athletic Scholarship cost $50,000+
Number of months (max) of (possible) football production...Let’s say 4.
So we are willing to bet 50K+ (on a guy that has not played the game in 4 years) to give us 4months of “possible” production.
I just think our scholarships are worth more than that.
I'm finding it hard to see the upside in all of this...
Athletic scholarships might be worth $50,000 to the student they're given to, but that doesn't mean it's costing the school $50,000 to let them take classes and play on the football team. Granted, there's some cost there, but I can't believe it's anywhere close to fifty grand.
Even so, they give scholarships to players that end up sitting the bench for four years... that's $200,000 by your calculation, and we get zero production from them.
The upside is that we MIGHT have a quarterback that can compete for the starting job. Who knows if he'd actually start or even play, but with our depth at quarterback I see no reason not to offer the kid a scholarship under the circumstances. Absolute worst case scenario is that he doesn't play and we get the scholarship back after the season anyway.
that is all.
While it's just money shifted around within the university, the athletic department does pay tuition to the athlete's academic college (same thing happens with graduate fellowships, the home department pays tuition to Rackham). Add in cost of equipment, books, housing (idk if it's covered), board, and I'll bet you're getting close to $50k.
The football team gives out every single scholarship every single year. If Paulus didn't get it, it would go to Nader Furrha, or some other walk-on on a year-by-year basis. There is no incremental cost here.
I don't think this is true, but I could be wrong...
We only have 78 scholarships accounted for this year. Does that mean that 7 walk-ons will get a one-year reprieve from student loans? I've never heard that before.
When there are open scholarships, the team will generally give them to walk-ons in their last year of eligibilty. I had 2 friends on the team to whom this happened. It's hoops, but this also happened to CJ Lee and David Merritt.
This last year, Mike Leach, Mark Moundros, Bryant Nowicki and Nick Sheridan all received scholarships.
Happens every year. I'm surprised you haven't heard of it before. The extra scholarships always go to walk-ons who earn them in practice. (On a true year to year basis, unlike the other guys whose scholarships are technically year to year, but are renewed 99.8% of the time for 4 years)
Thank you both for the info.
So the university would actually be saving money by giving Paulus a scholarship, since a walk-on who might otherwise get a one year scholarship would have to pay for tuition. I think the university would give out 150 scholarships if the NCAA allowed for it. This used to be the case before the 85 schollie limit was implemented, was it not?
It won't be saving or losing money. If Paulus indeed gets admitted to a grad school program, he'll be taking the spot of someone else (presumably a non-athlete).
M gives some players 4-5 years of schollie money that never meaningfully contribute. It's not totally unrealistic to think Paulus could end up being #2 by fall, and seeing playing time if Tate is injured (Gasp!).
...he will not ever see the field for Michigan. That is a guarantee.
A guarantee from you is absolutely worthless. It is your opinion. I guarantee you were dropped on your head as an infant. See I can make guarantees too!
Of course - a guarantee about what is going to happen in the 2009 Michigan football season is worthless. Way to make it personal. And so what if my Mom dropped me on my head? Didn't stop me from getting a law degree. Not. From. Michigan.
What do we win if your guarantee doesn't come to fruition? You've got to back it up with something.
You both frighten me.
I'll send you a picture of me crying in my beer, because if Paulus plays this year it's due to Tate and Denard both being injured, Sheridan's leg having fallen off, and the team will probably end up 2-10.
I'm not aware of any grad programs at UM that are one-year. I have a hard time believing that any academic department or the schools of social work, public policy, or business, are going to pick up the 2nd year that would be necessary for the MA, especially this year when they're offering fewer fellowships overall. I would think the athletic department would have to pick up the additional year, as well as engage in some pretty intense negotiations with departmental faculty to admit him to a program after the deadline for application and acceptance (which was the 15th).
For example, there's no way he's going into the poly sci department, which offers no terminal masters, and most of whose faculty would be very skeptical about offering admission to someone whose career path is not clearly in political science. Why should they waste their time (and grad students take a lot of time).
Clearly, this is ironed out, regardless of your doubts.
I'm sure it will be. Just pointing out that the athletic dept's likely making a two year fellowship commitment here, and that all the people who were pointing to UM's poly sci department as a drawing card don't know what they're talking about. Masters in public policy would be his most likely destination and would explain why he's also considering Syracuse, which has one of the top schools of gov't in the nation.
Does the Kiniesiology department still have graduate programs? I think they used to have one in movement science and one in sports management. It wouldn't necessarily have to be a 2 year program. If I'm not mistaken many fifth year seniors are in "Grad School"
I don't know what his undergrad degree was in but the Masters in Accounting program was a 1 year program as well.
If he doesn't get this scholarship, it will most likely be given to a walk-on. The scholarship money has already been budgeted; we always use all 85. We might as well give it to a guy who might play.
in these threads on Paulus. To be clear, I'm fine with him coming here, no issues. But the debate about whether or not he can play seems to tilt in favor of "not" when you consider that the Head Coach at his own school won't let him on the team. Sure he has a starter already, but if he thought he could play wouldn't he encourage him to join the team at Duke?
Duke has a returning 3-year starter at QB in Thaddeus Lewis. There's no way in hell a coach would look to unseat a guy with that kind of experience unless he was Reggie Ball-level bad. Lewis is a decent QB.
We, on the other hand, have two true freshman and a former walk-on who was, outside of one decent enough game (where he fortunate not to throw several picks because Minnesota guys can't catch), just plain bad.
which is why I said I'm totally fine with him coming here. But most coaches love talent, and they love having talented backups as well, especially at QB. It seems strange to me that Paulus gets a flat out no from the coach at his school--it wouldn't be the first time that a coach said "love to have you come and compete" without any real plans to have him start.
I wonder if it's harder for Cutcliffe to lie to Paulus since he's a Dookie.
I mean, if Rodriguez says "You can come here and compete" and Paulus never sniffs the field, it's no skin off Rodriguez's/Michigan's nose.
However, if Cutcliffe says "You can come in and compete" and Paulus never sniffs the field, then Paulus goes away thinking, "Man, my own alma mater screwed me over. Not only did I get benched in basketball, but the football coach lied to me."
Cutcliffe might be doing himself, Duke the school, and Paulus a favor.
First off, being a graduate student, he can play right away. I doubt our AD is stupid enough to allow a scholarship offer to someone who would only be eligible to ride the pines.
Second, we bet $50K on people every year for "possible production". Only having to waste $50K on someone for 1 YEAR, while that scholarship is just sitting around anyway, seems like a good bet to me, versus a 4 or 5 year back up.
MATH: 1 year backup $50K down the drain vs. 4 year back up $200k gone.....seems simple enough to me
I heard Paulus totally dominates EA's Madden NFL franchise. Does that experience count for anything?
Let me try to rebut some of the arguments coming from dissenters.
1. He made a mistake playing basketball and now has been given a mulligan.
Response: Everyone makes mistakes. And it's not like he's a questionable character. He played at Duke and had no legal problems.
2. He's a mercenary. We're better than that.
Response: All players are mercenaries. Players frequently transfer and Michigan is no exception. Guys are here to play so they have a shot at the next level. They love the school, for sure, but their main goal is to make it at the next level. Michigan gives you the additional luxury of a nice education.
3. He has no chance to play.
Response: You don't know that. He could be Chris Weinke. Unlikely, but possible.
4. He's a wasted scholarship.
Response: There are three scholarships left. If RR used them, they would have gone to walk ons with no chance to play in their own right.
5. The offer reeks of desperation.
Response: He has been given other offers and wasn't even thinking about football until he was contacted by the Packers. Obviously, RR wasn't the only one who saw potential in him.
6. He would send a horrible message to Tate and DRob.
Response: This is the worst argument of them all. Competition is precisely what is needed now, especially considering the other options are two true frosh and DEATH. If Tate and DRob can't handle competition from a guy who they know will only be here one year, they're never going to have the drive to play in the first place.
another benefit: with such a young team, he will bring an element of maturity and poise. Helping Tate / Denard and the rest handle themselves when the chips are down.
You know, I said the same exact things to my friend, whose only source of knowledge about Michigan athletics is Valenti. After saying all that, he goes on to say that if UM doesn't make a bowl game this year RR will be fired because the rich white alumni donors hate him. Point is, no matter how much evidence you show some people, they will never be able to come to grips that they are wrong and arguing with such people is useless.
I'll even go so far as to say, for those crying "reeks of desperation," so eff-ing what if it does? Our QB depth is THIN. Those people complaining about this being a desperate move don't know the meaning of the word. But they will if/when Tate goes down and we did nothing to deepen the QB position.
There don't seem to be any realistic ways having him on the team can be bad.
umm...am i missing something here?
yes, rr offered him. but has he commited? is he coming? or is he weighing his options re: syracuse
It sounds like he's weighing his options. Seems as though Paulus didn't really realize playing football was a possibility until a week or so ago. He's gonna need some time to figure things out.
I'm really hoping he comes, for many reasons
1) ESPN will slobber all over the whole thing. Call me jealous, but I want my own mini version of the Tebow lovefest that all the networks dish out. Paulus would provide that story
2) We have a considerable lack of depth at the position. I don't see how anyone can think that Paulus won't be at least as good as Sheridan. Even if he hasn't played in four years, he has a lot of talent. Maybe he'll never see the field, but it's worth a scholarship that would have been sitting around anyway
3) I yelled many obscenities at Paulus and Singler last November. It is mindblowingly ridiculous that Paulus could actually be wearing a Michigan football uniform in 4 months. That's like Beanie Wells playing for the Michigan basketball team. It is beyond words
If Paulus were to come here and eventually play in the NFL, his college (I assume) would be listed as Michigan. But what if he were to somehow make the NBA? Would he be listed as having gone to Duke?
He didn't announce he was going to play for anyone yet, just that he was considering all his options and that one of those is playing for us.
I only see syracuse in picture because he can play right away. Paulus almost came to Michigan 4 years ago for football if you didn't know.
Plus I believe he's actually from near Syracuse. I'm guessing his parents might still live in the area.
Is the universe perhaps making a small remittance to balance out the loss of Antonio Bass? Basketball stole his talents from football, now basketball is trying to make a meager repayment to UM football - surely, not enough, but karma takes lifetimes.
Michigan 24 Western 28.. 4th quarter, 5 seconds left on Westerns 40
Paulus lines up under QB. To his left is Carlos brown, to his right is Denard Robinson. Tate Forcier is lined up as a WR.
Paulus takes the hike, screen pass to Tate forcier who throws it to the opposite side of the field to Denard Robinson. Who throws it back to Carlos brown who throws it deep to Greg Mathews for the TD. Michigna wins
Western's DEs/LBs take out Forcier, Robinson, and Paulus in a full-on blitz. All three injured, out for the season. Sheridan comes in at QB, while Coner takes snaps on the sideline.
I like your plan better, of course. My reply is designed to keep my own expectations in check in light of the horror known as last season.
A warrior in the ancient times
with Paulus coming in and competing...
with Sheridan for the #3 spot.
I'm still utterly baffled by the fact that he has a year of eligibility - I just don't understand how you can play 4 whole years of B-Ball and magically have another year to play another sport.
You have a 5 year window in which you can play college sports, beginning when you first participate on a varsity team. You only get 4 years of eligibility for a given sport. The rule is what allows 5th year seniors.
For the same reason you can play 2 sports at once. A college athlete has 5 years to play 4 seasons of as many sports as they want. This happens often with track, where distance runners run cross country, indoor track and outdoor track. If you don't run, say, indoor track your first year but you run the other 2 all four years, you can take a fifth year and run indoor only, as you're still in your timeframe (5 years) and you still have one of your four seasons left.
...that had Paulus transferred to UM football after playing only 3 years of Duke b'ball, that he'd have 2 years of eligibility left to play football (or some sport other than basketball)?
This shit confuses me too. LOL.
In a nutshell: you can play as many sports seasons as you can fit into your five-year window, though you can't play more than four seasons in one sport. Jackie Robinson played football, basketball, baseball and track during his four years at UCLA.
If he graduates from Duke I think he'll have to sit out a year, which would use up all of his eligiblity.
Yea, I'm just going to go ahead and assume you've obviously been gone for the first part of the week. Its been discussed more times than night games. He would be able to play on day 1. I'll let you figure out why on your own.
Are you sure? I understand that he would be able to play from day one as an undergraduate, but as a graduate student he'd have to apply for a waiver.
I'm guessing that waiver isn't hard to obtain, especially given that he's switching sports.
You're probably right, since denying the waiver would be penalizing a kid for graduating on time.
It seems like it might become a major distraction. But I also think it will get us more competition at the quarterback position when we really need it. Forcier could be really good, but he is so small...I can see him getting hurt a lot like Sam McGuffie last year. So, it'll be nice to have another guy with a chance to be good before we get to Nick Sheridan leading us down the field. I am not saying he will be good, but he obviously has some talent for the position. If he works hard enough, he could be a good backup QB for us. Starting QB? I think not.
I think it already has become a distraction. Tate will already have plenty of competition to make him good when Denard comes around and then next year Devin Gardner comes into the fold. Leave the washed up QBs for someone more desperate. AND we will mostly likely get a second QB in the 2010 class of at least 3 stars. There is no need to go offering this guy. It just makes the media crazy.
ESPN headline: "Paulus says he'll vie for Michigan QB job" but the article is the same old thing - he was offered but will make his decision later. Same old misleading ESPN bullshit.
I listened to the DP show this morning and Dan specifically pointed out that Paulus did not state that a scholarship was offered. Listened to interview and it was not mentioned either. People should not leap to conclusions so quick - I heard the same "scholarship" talk on the Ticket at 5:00. Not true (yet?)/
He can't sign a scholarship offer because he'd have to jump through some adminstrative hoops to play at Michigan. Therefore, there's no official offer for him to sign.
However, if he's granted the waiver, Rodriguez will have a scholarship for him.