Recruiting: M vs. ND

We beat them in 2006 and 2007. So we've won 2 of the past 3.

Also, 2 years ago I would say they out recruited us, but last year Rivals had our class ranked 7th and ND's around 22nd I think. It's too early this year to say whose is better. That said, they have not beaten us in the recruiting trial, it has been pretty even, which is to be expected.

And yes, we've won 2 of the last 3, and last year was just a fiasco. I know, they were playing in the rain, but it was a game of a couple big plays by them and tons of turnovers by us. They won the game, but you can't be too proud of a win like that.

Notre Dame bragging about recruiting is like the Lions bragging about having a bunch of high draft picks. It doesn't mean shit if those players don't produce on the field.

Their players haven't.

Ergo, the argument is meaningless.

Last year they were way below us.

Catholic high schools.

ND has the advantage of automatically being in the Top 5 for ALL Cathoic high school football players and a significant percentage of the best high school football programs/players are at Catholic high schools.

Having their own TV network certainly doesn't hurt.

Players love the history, and the fact that they'll be on national television even if they blow. Both schools are very recruit-friendly (at worst moderately) even when they have bad seasons.

Recruiting is all about filling which ever team's needs with the most talented prospect possible. Who the most talented prospect is, is very subjective. Different people or websites use different criteria, offer lists are normally enough for me, but it all comes down to a person's opinion. And a good extent of it seems to come down to the High School all star games at the end of the year. If you didn't see the AA game recruits all seem to drop 2-5 slots vs. the UA game recruits at the end of recruiting last year on ESPiN, it became pretty obvious it is just another way to build ratings.

So I don't know enough about UM's recruiting needs beyond the QB but this is how ND has done over weis's last few years.
Offense:
Skill positions look great (WR, RB, QB) TE should never be a weakness for us, Could have used a QB last year but otherwise look good right now. The line got some depth this last go around and will hopefully continue to add bodies this season. Weis really wants a FB but hasn't been successful yet.

Defense:
Line was the key weakness the past few cycles, finding DT interested and admit-table also were just late identifying prospects. Secondary will be restocked this cycle, and Corwin is earning his pay. LB's enjoy Tenuta's aggresive defense.

Last year our recruiting class was somewhere just inside the top 25 but we took 3 special teamers, they're never ranked high but it was a huge area of need so whether scout thinks we have a better recruiting class than UM doesn't really matter to me. Its whether the staff is doing their job and getting the best prospects available.

This year and last year UM has recruited just fine compared to ND. Plus with the totally different types of systems the two teams run, UM and ND aren't competing for a lot of prospects lately, particularly on offense.

The one year that hurt was the class that signed in Feb 2008 - ND was coming off a good 2006 season and two straight BCS bowls and there was a lot of local-ish talent for ND(Chicago/midwest) and ND cleaned up with Floyd, Rudolph, etc. Kind of a convergence of factors.

I don't think either team has much to be worried about from the other. Both teams have staff that can recruit, it's up to the results on the field to determine the foreseeable future.

I never really see any method to their recruiting. They seem to just take some random high ranked guys (along with legacies) and hope they work out. It almost is like well if these don't work then maybe the next batch of 4* guys will work (I see this a lot with their WRs and RBs). USC does a similar thing but they get 90% 5* can't miss guys along with a great coach in Caroll.

I know that Weiss has blown since he got to ND and his only real success came when playing someone else's players. I think the thing that keeps luring these top kids into South Bend is the Superbowl rings he proudly shows off wherever he goes. I figure that has to be mesmorizing to look at as a recruit. Imagine how hypnotic it would be if Belichick came in there with all of his Superbowl rings. I would say that the mentality would be that he knows what the pro coaches want to see.

I don't like Notre Dame

Like all private schools, Catholic schools don't have to worry about silly technicalities like school districts, and can recruit (they really hate that word) from any district they want. So, many of them do cherry-pick the best athletes from their areas.

And from the time they get to school, their coach is saying "son, if you're good enough, you might get to play at NOTRE DAME someday."

So, really, despite every coach since Lou Holtz using ND's "high academic standards" as an excuse to field crappy teams, ND has a huge recruiting advangate at many of the "best of the best" because their coaches and schools have been steering them to ND since they entered school.

That is why I am afraid of the thought of Urban Meyer ending up there. If he does, as Yogi Berra might say, Norte Dame will be Notre Dame again.

I hope Weis does well enough to not get fired, but loses to UM on a regular basis. I think they would be satisfied with a bunch of 9-3 seasons and an occasional 10-2.

outside of the occasional amazing #1 classes that some schools get, most of the top recruiting classes are about equal to each other anyways. I mean, what's the difference between the #9 and #10 teams anyways, for instance. For that matter, what's the difference between most of the top 300 or so players (outside of the VERY best kids)

One thing to keep in mind when looking at recruiting rankings - quantity is as important to the rankings as quality. This past year has an excellent example in two schools - Florida and UNC. UNC ended up ranked in the Top 10 while I think Florida was around 15. However, UNC signed twice as many recruits as Florida did.

If you look at the average star/player for the class, Florida's is WAY higher then UNC. In fact, UNC easily has the lowest average star/player of any team ranked in the Top 10.

It's also the national Notre Dame mystique. There are plenty of people across the country who still regard ND as THE pre-eminent college football program in the country. Some of it is the Catholic thing, but that just accounts for a portion of the enthusiasm. I agree with the idea that we want Weis to be just successful enough to keep his job, but not so successful that he beats us often. Do not want Pope Urban in South Bend.

I'd like to point out that I and my family is all catholic and we all hate ND. Jus' saying...some catholics are in the opposite boat.

First of all, I would be very disappointed if ND hired Urban Meyer. That would be a clear indictment against the program, like when Kentucky hired Calipari. Thankfully, I don't think this will occur. A ND alum of mine told me that when ND was talking to Meyer before they hired Weis, Meyer demanded like 6 recruits per year he could recruit no matter what and ND was only willing to give him 1. Remember, this is the same ND that already relaxes academic standards for their football players. If you don't believe me, just go onto Rivals or Scout and see the posted tests scores of their players over the last 5 years or so. Yeah some guys have high scores blah blah blah, but that doesn't change the fact that barely literate guys are being let onto the team too.

As far as where ND gets their players, of course parochial schools are going to steer players to the nation's preeminent Catholic university. But that hasn't really helped ND the last few years. It means that the alleged high star recruits were mostly overrated, or it means that Fat Weis can't coach. Either way it's bad for them. When one time sure thing NFL starter Sam Young looks so shockingly average on the field, you have to question the mental state of the program. Clausen also has made some questionable decisions on the field in the few glimpses of time where he has time to get rid of the ball.

Seriously, if ND does not at least have a respectable season next year, they're in serious jeopardy of a complete collapse. Unfortunately I live near many alums and even more annoyingly subway alums and I can tell you that the alums are clearly restless and growing impatient with Weis by the day. The subway alums are all just a bunch of bandwagon followers so their loyalties will obviously fade as the team declines. Put it this way, if the AD hadn't awarded Weis with a 10 year extension for almost beating USC, I am almost certain he would be gone by now.

In many respects, though, I think the damage has already been done. Regardless of other factors involved, I am firm in my belief that the number 1 factor a high recruit considers when choosing a school is potential to play in the NFL. That hasn't really happened at ND in recent years and so long as they are not producing NFL players on a consistent basis, no one will want to play there. I am also firm that the second most important factor for high recruits is their ability to develop and improve so as to prepare them for the NFL. That has also been an issue with Weis. As even the most loyal ND fans will tell you, there is little improvement in the players as they progress and it's already an open fact that Weis has trouble communicating with these young players. So the continued decline of the football program will snowball into recruiting very soon (like next year), once players realize they aren't maximizing their NFL potential at ND.

Time is really running out for the Irish.