This team is still fun to watch in my opinion, and that is really all I ask for at this point. I honestly didn't think we took too many bad three's. We are going to live and die by the outside shot, clearly, and while this may lead to a few disappointing losses, it could also lead to a few upsets on hot nights. This team is clearly limited and I would be happy with any tourney seed and a 1st round loss. I love following a real basketball team however.
1/7/2009 – Michigan 72, Indiana 66 – 12-3, 2-1 Big Ten
image via jcmcmann @ flickr
Maybe Assembly Hall does have some sort of weird voodoo hex power that it uses for evil whenever Michigan shows up. After all, the last time Michigan won at Indiana there were actual Fab Five members still on the floor.
But it's more likely Michigan fans were just handed a harsh dose of reality made barely palatable by a Laval Lucas-Perry three that caught the front iron only to bounce straight up and through. Moments before Michigan had been down six to the worst team in the Big Ten and were fortunate to be that close. Then Manny Harris launched an ill-advised three, one of eight on the night, that went in, and Lucas-Perry launched a desperate three, one of nine, that got a friendly roll, and overtime was a mélange of more deep chucks and many, many missed IU free throws. At the end of everything they were up six, somehow.
Don't ask me how. It got so bad at one juncture in the second half when back-to-back possessions ended in horrible contested threes at the end of the shot clock that I thought to myself "this looks like an Amaker team." (I then immediately crossed myself and said four Hail Marys in penance.)
At one point they had launched 27 threes and made six. By the end of the game they had chucked up a prodigious 40—to only 21 two-pointers!—and made twelve. If they weren't playing the basketball equivalent of this year's Michigan football team they would have lost by double digits.
You can play this off as a hiccup, I guess, like rough games against Eastern Michigan and Savannah State and a housing at the hands of Wisconsin, but, man, has it ever occurred to you that maybe Michigan's shocking leap forward was at least somewhat illusory, man?
No. No, that had probably not occurred to you, unless it had. This is the same point I was trying to make about Michigan State football last week: we've been damn lucky. I didn't want to bring this up because it seemed like an unnecessary, party-pooping move, but Ken Pomeroy hates us. It's nothing personal, I promise. But the following graph from Big Ten Geeks, which measures the difference between a team's Pomeroy Rank and its average rank according to voters, was assembled before Michigan failed to achieve even in the modest goal of outperforming Lipscomb at Assembly Hall:
Yea, verily, on a difficulty-adjusted per-possession basis Michigan is one of the most overrated teams in the country. Two stellar games against UCLA and Duke coupled with a nonconference schedule featuring a wide array of teams not merely bad but outright awful have obscured the game-in, game-out struggles of the team. How many times has the general opinion after a game been "well, they won, but they really need to play better in the future?" By my count, about six.
Things get grimmer still when you focus on the Big Ten, where Michigan is not dancing with the angels, or the committee:
See, this is why I didn't want to bring it up. I sound like a negative old crank. Michigan is 12-3 with its first tourney bid in a decade in its sights and I'm sitting here telling you to turn off the lights, turn down the music, and go to bed.
And there are, of course, many disclaimers to that go here. Kenpom ratings are not perfect, they don't predict particularly strongly, and you can quickly pick out a half dozen "but what about…?" results if you want to. However, I do think they reveal something box scores and win/loss doesn't, and what it reveals is scary for Michigan fans dreaming of an eight seed in March.
What I'm trying to get at is this: this team is still painfully young, and is not as good as their record. They were extremely fortunate to scrape by a couple of very poor teams and also fortunate to catch Duke on a day when they were ice-cold from outside. They've not lost a close game and have won four. Brace yourselves, because it's going to be bumpy. I'm telling myself this as much as anyone reading this. I caught myself checking out Bracketology this week and thinking to myself "only a nine seed?"
Only a nine seed? Who am I, Jay Jacobs? The only senior who did anything yesterday was CJ Lee, a walk-on. Underclassmen sucked up 73% of the minutes. There are two players taller than 6'5". With Cronin redshirting, Michigan is playing short four scholarships.
"Only a nine seed." Does Michael Douglas sit around thinking to himself "if only I could have hooked up with Scarlett Johannsson?"
Bullets of EXTREME REASON
- I freakin' knew I shouldn't have talked up Manny Harris, because he's fallen apart since the Big Ten season hit. Yeah, 17 points yesterday but a lot of those were end of game free throws. He was 4/12 with four TOs. He's shooting 33% and has an A:TO ratio of 10:12. In this game he took a whopping eight threes and just four two-pointers, which is at least reversed. If Harris takes twelve shots nine of them should be twos.
What happened? You could see the frustration building in the Wisconsin game and after the third time he drove the lane and got hacked with no call he started going nuts, driving wildly and forcing the issue. Similar things happened against Wisconsin, and then tonight he gave up and started chucking. Late in the game Harris got yanked for CJ Lee and the team's performance actually picked up.
I'm not sure what you do if you're Beilein other than jump down the ref's throat every time they miss a foul call on a Harris drive. Harris really needs a 8-10 foot pullup jumper, because without it you just pack the lane and wait for chaos.
- One thing Harris hasn't fallen off in is rebounding. Eleven against IU, the last a monster board that sealed the game after a turnover and comical blocking call brought Indiana within three.
- What happened to Shepherd? I don't get it. People say he wasn't performing offensively; the stats don't bear it out. Small sample size and all that, but Shepherd has a higher offensive rating with more usage than either Novak or Douglass. He's 20-30 from 2 and almost 70% of his shots are from there. In a game where Michigan couldn't or wouldn't go inside, his game could have been used.
- Sims was the only player with more than two two-point baskets; he was 7/11 from inside the arc.
- I agree with The Hoosier Report's take: "I would have rather [Indiana] lost by 20." Also, this is nice:
As I was going to say in my gracious post-game victory post, it's an odd sensation to have a 17 point home lead and yet fear that Michigan's coach might engineer a comeback. I didn't feel that way when Michigan was good, let alone the last 10 years.
That may say more about Indiana's team this year than Michigan's, but I'll take it.
- No, the picture above isn't from the game. You can tell because of Thad Matta. And it's at Crisler. And David Merritt's wearing #11—apparently he changed numbers, who knew? I usually try to find an appropriate image from the game itself but I couldn't find one that summed the game up very well. At least the opponent is wearing red.
I love K-Zeta
I was there, and after a Michigan three actually dropped in the second half, I stood up with my arms up and yelled, "It's a miracle!" It was incredibly frustrating to watch Michigan constantly kick the ball out for threes ALL THE TIME when they just weren't falling; even when there was an opening for a drive, they'd kick it out for a three almost every time. What's with that?
Assembly Hall feels a little odd. Not the seating arrangement, but that you walk past offices and press rooms and whatnot when you're trying to find bleacher seats. Between that and having to wait for Indiana to enter the court through the same door we were going to use, it was odd for someone like me who's more accustomed to arenas where spectator areas are completely separated from team areas.
That's an old-school arena for you. Hinkle Fieldhouse (Butler) is the same way with lots of offices and such.
Brian, you aren't the only one who's thinking this M team has a bullshit offense. I mean, c'mon. You just CAN'T survive with a team that must hit 23-footers in order to open up back-door drives to the hoop. You must utilize more picks, pick-and-rolls, screens, and motion.
Sure, this win was very satisfying, because I know a soul-crushing loss when I see one and Indiana basketball fans are generally insufferable. But JFC, if we're going to live and die by contested 3's I don't even WANT to get more emotionally attached to this club, 'cause it ain't gonna end well.
We're not insufferable, are we.......at least our banners are still flying and we play ball the right way.
Cripes, I guess we are insufferable.....whaddya expect out of a soccer school?!?!?!
who still worship Bobby Knight, and never went IU, who are the worst. And most Indiana Basketball fans seem to especially despise Michigan Basketball because, for them, it used to symbolize "ghetto ball" and not playing the game "the right way" (as you stated).
Maybe Home Depot Hoosiers, to keep the alliteration going.
You know what I call those KnightHeads that still worship at his altar? I call them Texas Tech fans.
My diploma says Indiana Univeristy, not Bob Knight University.
But, I am not a born and breed in Indiana Hoosier......i agree with you, btw. I attended IU during the Fab Five era, and there was hatred for UM because of that team. That hatred was built in as they didn't like the UM teams in the 1980s either.....many were convinced that Frieder cheated to get all those players, and when the Fab Five rolled around the whole 'ghetto ball' theory that you speak of was in full force.
IU fans are generally full of it and a lot of fans swore off the team several years ago because they deemed them to not be playing ball "the right way."
Its my school and they will always have a fan in me, regardless.....much like michigan athletics.
There is one big difference between M basketball and MSU football this year. Seniors. We don't have 'em. MSU's got tons of them, and is thus poised for a crash. We have freshmen and sophomores, and are only headed upwards, especially if Manny stays.
I'm just glad that Michigan basketball is back in the conversation. I think Beilein is coaching the game and the players are still learning.
Some thoughts about Manny:
1) Yeah, way too many 3's, not enough mid-range jumpers.
2) I *LOVE* that he's a good free-throw shooter and that we as a team are, too.
3) It is clear that he is a hugely talented basketball player.
4) Given #3, I can't believe how much he struggles on the fast break. I've seen way too many plays where he makes the wrong dish/shoot decision, or when he does pass, passes to the wrong guy. Is this a function of being "the guy" all his life and never passing? I dunno. It is a major area for improvement, though.
Regardless, I'm just happy to be relevant again. Being overrated means that you're...rated. Which we haven't been in a long, long time.
I kept seeing those little guys in the paint and thinking, WTF? But, they did have some rebounds fall into their hands. Novak has brass balls. His face is going to be a mass of scar tissue if he keeps being so brave.
And that camera work outright sucked last night! The swivel dampers on the cameras were set too tight, and the operators just flat out missed junk. Or maybe I just need a tv with a different perspective or something.
And I thought Coach Crean looked a heck of a lot like Tom Arnold.
Hey, but the boys won.
You may need a new team to root for...if you haven't noticed we have 1 guy worth a dam over 6'5" we're not going to post anyone up anytime soon. While all us bball purists want to "go in the paint" that ain't happening with this team. As for Beilien's strategy I'm going over 1 of the most respected tacticians in the entire sport over internet guy.
We don't need a bunch of guys stats to figure out this team is not very talented. Let's enjoy the ride if I can sit down on selection Sunday and get pumped up to watch those douchebags roll out the match ups like I used to 20 years ago I will be happy and if I can blow off work on Thursday afternoon to watch us scrap against some team this season will be an overwhelming success.
I would save the overly critical game analysis till next year.
and btw, since I'm psychologically incapable of emotional detachment from the Maize and Blue, my words were more just venting rather than actual disdain.
While I agree that this team probably isn't as good as its 12-3 record shows, I also don't think they are as a bad or "overrated" as last night's game showed. I hate the number of 3s this team takes, but until Harris et al start getting more confident/respected by the refs going to the basket, this chucking is going to continue. And yes, some of those earlier games exposed the same problems we are seeing now - if the threes are falling UM can beat anyone, but if not then you have Savannah St. or Wisconsin. I would hazard to guess, though, that the same statement can be made for the vast majority of teams in college basketball.
I do disagree, though, with the argument that this team should have played a tougher OOC schedule. They played 3 top teams (Duke x2, UCLA), going 2-1. They also narrowly lost to a decent BCS team on the road (Maryland), and didn't suffer some horrible loss against a truly bad team. To me, that looks pretty decent in today's day and age. This team was so beaten down by the constant losing last year that they needed to feel good about themselves, to experience some early success and start believing that they can compete with good programs. It's this confidence, moreso than anything else, that helped this team win last night. Down 20 in the second half on the road, even against IU, would have sunk last year's team. This year, though, they kept plugging away and making shots when they needed to. Sure, this team is going to lose most of the time they shoot this badly against better teams in the Big 10, but I guess I took a more positive outlook than others did. This team entered last night a 8-9 seed in the NCAA tournament, and they are leaving about the same way.
my suggestion to eveyone, obviously just a suggestion..
i enjoy my life. Last night sucked when we were loosing, and i threw my 2 cents into the convo as well as to why we were, or what was frusatrating me. But at the end of the day we won. that was cool, and i was happy, and am happy.
Try enjoying life a little more. Espically all you college kids and young 20' somethings, life is full of fun things, and michigan basketball, which had been the laughing stock of college basketball for awhile, came back from 20 to win a game in place they usually dont win. That is cool, and fun. Thats what fun about being a fan, how we win doesnt have to be important to us... Im sure coach B wasnt happy, and thats what sucks about being a coach, sometimes even wins arent good, but that doesnt have to be that way for us, the fans.
IF MICHIGAN hadnt shot 40 threes, perhaps we dont make the last 2 to win the game. If michigan would have shot less perhaps we would have lost by 5, nobody knows. Duke shot terrible against us, that didnt change the way they played, sometimes shots dont go in, and the defense is forcing you to do things you dont want to do. I think Duke was less concerend about their shooting percentage against us, then they are about playing the way they play. Point is michigan won. There are many oportunites to get upset over a loss, lets not as fans, ruin the experience for ourselves by being upset at a win. Otherwise, there is no chance of happiness in being a fan...
Good lord, let's just enjoy it. In retrospect, wouldn't we all have loved it if about 3 or 4 of the football team's ugly close losses were ugly close wins?
It was an ugly win, yes. But let's not lose sight of the fact that they came back from 20 down to win ON THE ROAD. I'll take ugly.
This team is young still and, although we're playing much better than last year, as Coach B says, they are still thinking rather than playing his system.
And who the fuck is this self-important Pomeroy pudbiter? His geek formulae mean less than nothing to me, and, fortunately, to this team.
to the many who, in some form or another, have given the Cher "Snap Out Of It!" Slap to those of us upset about such a thrilling win last night.
Onward and upward!
This would have been a killer loss for tourney hopes. Glad they won, hopefully they can take care of business on Saturday as well. They need to beat the teams they're supposed to beat, because there are a lot of teams in this conference that can beat you on their home floor (and some that can come into Crisler and do it).
But we better not be ranked next week after this (inertia might push them in, but I think a few teams ought to jump M). Beilein was right.
But still, even the fact that we think there's a realistic chance that we see Michigan in the tournament is nice.
We had only 13 turnovers last night in an overtime game.
2 of those were manny basically giving it away, 2 were Gibson traveling calls and one was a questionable traveling call on LLP.
I did my fair share of swearing last night, but there are tons of positives including 'brass balls' Novak, a crazy high free throw percentage and a really fun style of play on most nights. If they make two or three more of those threes in the first half it is a totally different game.
Despite Brian's assertion that we are down 4 scholarships, we have quality depth that we haven't seen in years. CJ (IU), Gibson (Ill), Stu (UCLA) and Novak (Duke the second time) have all had huge games when needed.
LLP, Manny and Sims will all keep putting up double figure scoring nights and Grady will win us one in the near future.
I think Manny is in a little bit of a sophmore slumpy funk right now and he will snap out of it. He has to adjust his game, which will take a few more games probably, but he will get there. Sims is vastly improved over last year.
Call me crazy, but I am one happy bball fan right now.
Micheal would take his hands off my number three dream woman. It's simply not fair that I can't have her for my own.
Young teams tend to play better in positive environments. This team has struggled on the road (last night) and appeared listless when the students were on break, and Crisler quieted down. Add in that the offensive style is pretty boom or bust, inconsistency is to be expected.
I think that's why we missed Merritt. He seems to be a steadying influence and, while he's not better than Grady, the team plays better with him on the floor. He does a better job of feeding the post (we need to get Sims the ball - he's our best percentage shooter, and the only non-perimeter scorer on the roster) and plays better defense.
Also - I just want to point out a huge successful gamble that Beilein took. After we cut the lead to 7, Indiana pushed the lead back out to 12, and the crowd ignited, and Beilein took a TO - you could see the team with their heads down. Beilein, at that critical juncture, pulled his best player (Harris) and put in a walk-on who had played 2 minutes up til then (Lee). Lee stepped on the floor and immediately knocked down 2 treys to cut it to 6. Momentum back on our side, Harris came back.
That was huge.
It was huge
I know Manny finished with 17 and 11 boards, but he was absolutely killing the offensive flow in the second half before he was yanked. However, I don't think that was a gamble at all, but needed to happen. Even in the first half it was rough - not to mention his 4 turnovers. He seems to be indecisive and is thinking to much and trying to create when it is not there. His feel for the offense is lost - a lot of credit goes to the other teams for this too - and he is holding the ball, driving into traps, etc. I was actually hoping Beilein would take him out long before he did.
As a team they are 'ball-watching' way too much and Manny seems to be unfocused on defense for periods. I'll take 17 and 11 from him every game, but it needs to be much much more efficient than it was last night.
I also respectfully disagree and think we are a much better team when Grady is running the point. It did hurt when Grady was out last night and Douglas was running the point instead of Merrit, but Grady is much more dynamic and runs the team well. However, Merrit is much better at getting the ball down low and executing the back cut.
No one has mentioned how well Indiana played in the first half. Indiana was raining three's and moving the ball effectively. Their team will be dangerous at home all Big Ten Season because they have nothing to lose and get maximum fan support for a team that poor. Gibson played awful and we were forced to play small ball which only exaggerates our 3 point to 2 point differential. What people are ignoring is the fact that Coach Beilein has instilled character, belief, and a system that has proven successful. Our ball club has grit and desire that few Michigan Football Teams have displayed over the past decade. Manny may be struggling offensively, but his rebounds, blocks, and hustle are amazing. Also, LLP has only been playing a half dozen games and is performing at a very impressive rate. If Grady, Manny, and LLP start driving more, Sims realizes he can have his way with his mid-range game, and Gibson can give consistent minutes, our team is far from over-rated. Furthermore, I guarantee you other teams coaches dont think our team is overrated. Lastly, that stupid overrated index ranking BS includes a very UNDERRATED Arkansas team, and any team that beats UNC is not underrated. There are NO fluke wins vs. UNC.
My largest concern right now is that it seems like Manny gets forced away from what he wants to do pretty often. He got frustrated by a few non-calls vs. Wisconsin and then just started crashing in there wildly. Last night, he didn't really seem to try to get to the basket, and just sat back and bombed three-pointers - something he doesn't do very well right now.
I'd have to say this post is a little over the top. Was last nights win frustrating? Yes! But this is basketball, not football. Playing close games and losing games to far inferior opponents is much more common and much more acceptable in basketball than in football. There are many factors that make this so, including home court advantages, the streaky nature of shooting, the way games are officiated, etc. There are just too many variables to not expect a close game against a really bad team once in a while. That's why you get crazy results like BC beating UNC one night and losing to Harvard(!?!) the next, and why a team hasn't gone undefeated since 1972.
I think we all know what we have in this team. A group, that given the season so far, should reasonably be expected to break our tourney skid (knock on wood), and best case win a couple games if our shooting touch doesn't disappear and the draw is favorable. So, MAX we're a sweet 16 type team. We can't go all "we're undefeated and played a close game with Ball St.!" with this group. We're a team that is probably slightly above middle of the pack in the Big 10 which means we could play the top teams well and let the bottom dwellers hang around. Lets not freak out about reality.
Finally, as for the 3 point shooting. Being a predominantly 3 point shooting team is not this big of a deal. The line still is criminally short. We have good shooters and not so great post players. We should be relying heavily on hitting 3s. Reading some of these comments and it sounds so similar to football fans who couldn't get over their team becoming pass oriented and using that to set up the run. There is a risk, that like last night, we settle to quickly for bad shots, but as a whole, this is a good strategy and the best way for us to be successful.
I totally agree. Unlike football, which sees less variability from game to game, basketball is extremely volatile in terms of a team's performance. I wouldn't wig out over ugly victories, just take the win and go onto the next game.
Neither really about the game itself:
1. The Camera Work: I jokingly compared Fox's coverage of the Fiesta Bowl to the BTN in terms of general awfulness, but then last night made me realize how unfair that comparison was to the BTN. I'm not sure I've ever seen a worse televised sporting event. The camera was constantly out of the place and nausea-inducing. The announcers were over-the-top the entire game regardless of the situation. By halftime I was half-expecting the "Boom Goes the Dynamite" guy to be doing the highlights. Just horrendous all the way around. I have heard that Assembly Hall is a very difficult place for TV, but still.
2. The Maize jerseys again? They're going to start losing their luster if we wear them every game.
In all seriousness though great job by the players not quitting and fantastic halftime adjustments and substitutions down the stretch from Beilein as usual. I was wondering for a while if Harris had fouled out or something and I had somehow missed it. Ballsy move taking him out at that point in the game.
There's been good and bad this season, as reflected by Jeff Sagarin's rating of 38 through last night. On the other hand, also according to Sagarin, no one else in the nation has 3 wins against his top 25.
That will happen with a team that shoots as ridiculous a number of threes as Michigan does (46.6% through yesterday). When they're going in, you can beat anyone. When they're not, things like "down 20 against Savannah State and the worst Indiana team in history" happen.
Interestingly, last night's game featured the only two teams in the Big Ten to average more points per attempted shot inside the arc than outside. Michigan's shooting percentage inside the arc is so much better than outside (52% to 34.4%) that they actually average more points per 2-point attempt (1.04) than per 3-point attempt (1.03). Indiana's disparity is even greater (0.96 to 0.89).
Maybe the difference for Michigan can be explained because they don't go inside unless they have a very good shot, so the 2-point percentage is higher than it would be if they went inside more. But it seems strange that a team would shoot so many threes when they're not getting any more out of them.
I know the "u" word gets thrown around way too often nowadays, but the BTN simply cannot allow camera work where you literally DO NOT SEE the basket during a shot! This happened at least a half dozen times!
Pomeroy's ratings aren't designed to deal with teams that play to the level of their opponents. Essentially, Pomeroy rates us badly because we beat crappy opponents by very little. Under Pomeroy's system, that means we're more likely to lose our next game. But that's ridiculous. What's more likely is that we'll play well enough to win, no matter who the opponent may be.
I'm not saying it's a virtue that we play well enough to win. Certainly, we would like to play harder and with better defense in the first half, which we haven't been doing. It would probably be better to play hard every minute of every game, like those brainwashed Duke robots who are playing their hearts out when they're up 40 points against West Allegheny Community College with two minutes left (which, by the way, is why Pomeroy rates them highly).
Want to know what's really ridiculous? Michigan is currently rated #58 by Pomeroy. Duke is rated #1 by Pomeroy. Duke has ONE loss. That loss is to Michigan.
I'll chime in with the other folks who have expressed that we're all just happy to have a team that's winning games. A win is a win is a win. It's nice not having to find moral victories, so why are we trying to find moral defeats (that sounds weird)?
If you're going to peg the Duke win on Duke's poor shooting, I think it's only fair to recognize that Wisconsin and Indiana shot the ball extraordinarily well. And I choose "extraordinary" as the word because their shooting was out of the ordinary. Just because a team gets their shots to fall at an unusual pace does not make Michigan a bad team. With Wisconsin, I was worried because I knew that when they cooled down, they would still be shooting 50%. With Indiana, I wasn't particularly worried because when they cooled down it would be to a lower percentage and we would get back in the game. We did. Regression to the mean kept me calm.
With respect to Manny and the dearth of two-point shots, my impression is that Manny drove a lot in the Wisconsin game and did not have much success getting it in the basket. Since then, Beilein has done some good coaching because now Manny is kicking it out more often. I attribute the fewer two-point shots to good decisions on his drives to kick the ball out. The shots that resulted from that weren't falling in the first half, but the needle moved back to "average" in the second half. Teams are trying to stop Manny from taking two-point shots. He's taking what the defense is giving him and that's good for the team.
Yes, the team took a lot of three-pointers, but it worked. Good move by the coach to understand what his system is and that if you move away from the three-pointers, you have nothing else to go to. Yes, that's a weakness of the team, but at this stage of the team's development, it's nice that we're winning despite that flaw.
Couple nitpicks on your description of the final minute of regulation:
-While Manny takes too many threes for my liking, I don't think his 3 with 45 seconds left was ill-advised. For one thing, we were down six, so we pretty much needed to put one up then. For another, Manny was open and got himself squared up to the basket. When he does that, he shoots a lot better.
-LLP's three looked like a designed play and came with 25 seconds left, so it wasn't really "desperation." LLP's never been bashful about putting it up; he'll take that shot all day.
I, too, am "psychologically incapable of emotional detachment from the Maize and Blue" (apt phrase, caup.) For instance, I confidently anticipate a deep tournament run in March and a 10-2 or better season next fall - and have 0% doubt about the rational "voracity" of these beliefs.
Anyway, I just watched the Iowa game - wonder what our "defensive efficiency" (huh? Is that a property management term, or what?) rating will be now?
Playing good, tough, EFFECTIVE defense in basketball is quite simply a matter of effort, will, focus, and hard work. Really, it is. Of course, athletic ability is important. But working hard at it is the key. Beilien knows all about this - our "D" will be fine.
And - "Pomeroy Shmomeroy" indeed!!!! Did he goto MSU? (hehehe)