Quick Hoke Presser Tidbits: O-Line Taking Shape?
3/5 of the starting line for the opener? [Bryan Fuller/MGoBlog]
Brady Hoke held a presser this evening, and while Adam should have the full transcript up later, Brian asked me to do a quick rundown since this was a particularly newsworthy one. Let's start with—you guessed it—the offensive line, which seems to be taking form.
Mason Cole, Erik Magnuson, Jack Miller, Graham Glasgow and Ben Braden is likely your starting OL. per Hoke.
— Michael Spath (@Spath_Wolverine) August 14, 2014
That's from left to right, and confirms what Hoke said on the radio earlier today about Braden solidifying his spot at right tackle, with Mason Cole still holding strong at LT.
While Glasgow looks to be the starter at right guard, he's suspended for the opener; Kyle Bosch and David Dawson are competing to start against Appalachian State. As for concern that Kyle Kalis hasn't been mentioned much at all this fall, there's apparently good reason for his absence:
Sounds like Jack Miller's in position to start game one at center ... Right guard spot? Bosch and Dawson. Kalis' back is ailing.
— Nick Baumgardner (@nickbaumgardner) August 14, 2014
If Hoke is to be believed, Miller is in position to do more than just start the first game—according to the man in charge, Miller is outplaying Glasgow at center. That'd be great news, as it would allow Glasgow to work at guard—where he seems to be a better option than Bosch/Dawson—and let Miller provide an apparent upgrade at center over Michigan's most consistent interior lineman from last year (that is, admittedly, not a distinction worth throwing a parade over).
UPDATE: Per Angelique Chengelis, Hoke actually said that Kalis would be a starter—though one or both of them didn't specify where—if his back was healthy.
Hoke said Kalis has been held out w back (doesn't sound major), would be a starter. Miller has edge at center over Glasgow (out 1st game)
— angelique (@chengelis) August 14, 2014
That could mean Kalis would take over at left guard, Magnuson would slide over to left tackle, and Cole would move to the bench, or it could mean that Kalis would play right guard over Glasgow.
Michigan held a scrimmage on Wednesday, and in addition to Kalis, three other players were held out: Devin Funchess, Drake Harris, and Delano Hill. Harris is dealing with a hamstring injury, while Hill is reportedly two to three weeks away from returning from his broken jaw. No reason was given for Funchess' absence that I could find, so let's hope upon hope that it was simply "you're Devin Funchess, and we have no need to risk you."
Multiple spots are still up for grabs. Hoke praised the scrimmage performances of Derrick Green and Drake Johnson, while saying De'Veon Smith had a slow start. On the other side of the ball, Jake Ryan is the only linebacker who's locked down a starting spot.
Jabrill Peppers "has a handle" on playing nickel, so he's now getting some work in at cornerback. Given Michigan's depth there, that sounds very positive in regards to Peppers' development.
Adam will have the full transcript up at some point, but that should hold you over for now.
August 15th, 2014 at 4:49 PM ^
You think our line would be LT: Magnusson, LG: Glasgow, C: Miller, RG: Kalis, RT Braden ?
Then Cole first off bench? I would be pretty happy with this scenario all things considered.
August 15th, 2014 at 8:33 AM ^
We ran lots of zone last year and Miller was terrible at it.
The only potential saving grace here is if Miller has really improved that much.
August 15th, 2014 at 10:16 AM ^
I'm not saying Miller is a zone blocking machine or anything. What I'm saying is that I could see Miller improving enough as a zone blocker to win a job. I don't know that he would ever have cracked the lineup as in a man-blocking offense.
August 14th, 2014 at 10:18 PM ^
Miller likely got the nod last year because Glasgow had issues snapping the ball, which we did see on the field as well. They were just completely out of options at C. Now they have two guys and one guy got the start over another. Yes, there may be some truth to Miller getting in by default because Glasgow is more needed at G, but also keep in mind Miller's gotten work at G too. All things being equal, I would think Glasgow would get the C spot considering how important it is and how well (relatively) he did last year, but instead they liked Miller enough to move Glasgow instead.
Also, you make it sound like people are raving about this line-up. I don't think that's the case, but it is what it is at this point. Just having guys named is a positive in and of itself because it means we can get them more reps together to build chemistry. Hopefully, unlike the last two years, this line-up surives to the first game and beyond.
August 14th, 2014 at 11:12 PM ^
Miller wasn't ready last year but after a year of work he is ready to achieve top level performance. I see that all the time at my company. I am constantly rewarded by sticking with people who struggle at first.
August 14th, 2014 at 11:20 PM ^
The center spot was all but gift wrapped for him last season, and he had the whole offseason to prepare for it.
August 14th, 2014 at 11:41 PM ^
That's all well and good, but he wasn't there yet last year. Just because he knows the center spot if his if he wants it doesn't make him physically ready to handle it at the time. We are now 12 months past that point. Assuming Miller practiced all season last year and worked out all off-season, it's entirely possible that he has improved himself since then, right? So just because he wasn't ready then doesn't mean he won't be ready now.
Kenny Demens spent 3 years on campus without seeing the field despite us having constant issues at MLB. Yet as a RS Jr he was ready and ended his career as a 2 year starter and fringe NFL player. Glasgow wasn't a Big Ten caliber recruit as a high schooler, but last year was a solid Big Ten starter. Guys improve, man.
August 15th, 2014 at 8:47 AM ^
That's not a very encouraging comparison. Demens spent his first three years playing for an abysmal defensive staff and, by all outward appearances, he should have been starting his redshirt sophomore year.
August 14th, 2014 at 11:22 PM ^
I disagree with your assessment of Miller. I don't think he was good, either. In fact, he was pretty poor. But he was not one bit worse than Kalis or Bosch.
And, the zone offense we are running plays more to his strengths. He wont have to down block to cover a pulling guard much. He'll have a lot of help. And pass protection was his strength (not that he was good, but if he improved enough in the run game to win the job, he probably improved just as much in protection, rendering him serviceable this season).
In the end, you are reading the situation wrong. The question isn't, "how can this line be read as anything but concerning," but rather, "what combination could we possibly throw out there that wouldn't be concerning?" This one is as good as any other, and might be our best option, as it puts our two oldest linemen on the field together in the middle.
August 15th, 2014 at 10:28 AM ^
Bosch and Kali's weren't good last year but miller was way worse, he looked lost on stunts and often times was stating at Gardner when he was on his back, still, new system he could have improved
August 15th, 2014 at 5:49 PM ^
See, I'll have to rewatch the film, but I remember my biggest problem with Glasgow at center was how often he blocked no one in pass protection. I actually recall saying, "Damn, at least Miller didn't do that".
And again, Miller was not much worse, if at all, than Kalis and Bosch. None of them played at a B1G acceptable level.
August 15th, 2014 at 9:17 AM ^
Miller Snapping the ball > Glasgow Snapping the Ball
There seemed to be about 1 bad snap per game (at least for like a 6 game stretch) when Glasgow took over last year.
And Glasgow Guard > Glasgow Center. So if Miller really is better at Center than Glasgow, the OL just got stronger in 2 spots.
August 14th, 2014 at 7:13 PM ^
Just hearing that progress is being made in terms of determining who will play. Many including myself just want to get some stability so the guys can get reps together and build cohesion. As you say, it is funny to think a Freshman LT could be calming though.
August 14th, 2014 at 7:47 PM ^
When there's no line up, the consensus is "everybody sucks" but when we name a line up, it's "these guys must be good because they've been named starters." Neither thought makes much sense, but that's where the brain tends to go.
August 14th, 2014 at 9:24 PM ^
That's a funny observation and there's some truth to it. We learned that we'll have a true freshman LT and that one of our would-be starters is injured and the collective reaction is basically "phew."
August 14th, 2014 at 10:09 PM ^
I think it fills in a lot of blanks. Why isn't Kalis playing? A: He's hurt. Why is Cole starting? A:Because Mags needs to cover one of the guard spots. Also.... just having something semi concrete so guys can build some chemistry is good new in and of itself. Am I calm? No, won't be until after ND at the earliest, but it's nice to have something beyond constant change and baseless speculation.
August 14th, 2014 at 11:02 PM ^
Glasgow is suspended and Kalis is hurt. That's 2 starting guards who are out. So instead of starting 2 backup guards, you have Mags play guard as he has played guard before and Cole plays LT as he is less of a "step down" from Mags at LT.
August 14th, 2014 at 7:00 PM ^
That would be fantastic if Miller is stepping up. All reports were that Glasgow was good last year at Center. If we can get somebody even better and upgrade another interior lineman spot that would be good. This tidbit made me feel positive about the OL but let's see what happens this public scrimmage.
August 14th, 2014 at 7:01 PM ^
I'm now feeling really good about his ability to handle LT. All of spring and to this point in fall camp he is clearly holding up and proving he can handle it. With this development it's a huge benefit to be able to move Mags (Best lineman) to the inside. Maybe it's unwarranted but I am more optimistic now than I have been since before last season.
August 14th, 2014 at 7:14 PM ^
Cole starting at left tackle scares the shit out of me. I know he's getting heaps of praise but there is no way you can convince me that this is a good sign regarding the state of the line. In fact, I dare you to try. Please. Otherwise I will continue to hold on to the faint hope that Mags will get bumped outside when Kalis comes back.
August 14th, 2014 at 7:40 PM ^
Alabama is going to start a true freshman at LT this year. It happens even on great lines sometimes.
August 14th, 2014 at 7:48 PM ^
He has a couple inches on Cole and 30 pounds. I think Cole is going to be fine but Robinson is not the norm.
August 14th, 2014 at 8:43 PM ^
They're both 6'6" and while Cole put on about 20 pounds Robinson lost about 20 pounds putting them within about 10 pounds of each other.
August 14th, 2014 at 9:37 PM ^
Given the current respective talent levels on each roster, it's probably fair to say:
Robinson --> Alabama
As
Cole ---> Michigan
And that's not a knock on Cole, he has a really solid recruiting pedigree himself.
August 15th, 2014 at 8:42 AM ^
And Cole was the #6 OT in the country. Not exactly chopped liver.
August 14th, 2014 at 7:49 PM ^
I think one way to nicely frame what we are all worried about is the concept of whether a competent player moving from position A to position B is mostly due to a "push" or a "pull."
Pushes are good, in the sense that another player has become competent/solid and now supplanted that first solid player and thus "pushed" that first solid player into another position that needed help. Pushes are largely opportunity-based.
Pulls are bad in the sense that the coaches perhaps would prefer to keep the first competent/solid player at their original position, yet because of a weakness in another slot, has "pulled" that competent player over to the new slot--presumably because the talent drop off isn't as severe in the first slot once that first player vacates it. Pulls are largely fear-based.
I know the reality is that it's a bit of a mixture. Are Kalis/Bosch/Dawson that bad at the guard slots that it pulls Mags and Glasgow over? Or are Cole and Miller that respectable that we now have the luxury of using Mags and Glasgow as marginal improvements over otherwise competent guard play? Likely a bit of both.
As MGrowOld said though, Hoke is the individual most motivated to make the position battle calls accurately, and he's in a position far better than any of us to make that determination.
Trust that it's the best possible combination of talent on the field, and that they don't get constantly shuffled around so that they have a chance to gel. Then pray that the rest of the offense plays well enough to force opposing defenses to respect the passing threat enough to not stack the box on every play.
August 14th, 2014 at 7:47 PM ^
I'm hoping this is a sign the young talent on the line is finally showing up. A lot of guys seem to be neck-and-neck and I'm hoping this means they're all at 'decent' and we're not having a competition amongst a bunch of bad guys
On the plus side, the line should be extremely strong the following 2-3 seasons. A lot of young talent is growing up
August 14th, 2014 at 8:01 PM ^
Will there be any way to watch the scrimmage if we can't make it to the stadium?
August 14th, 2014 at 8:20 PM ^
So, in my view this is just about a worst-case scenario. What's a simpler explanation here: Cole is a once in a generation OL / LT talent, and Miller became a viable/solid option at C over the offseason, or a bunch of guys from the interior from last year who weren't good / ready to start still are not good / ready to start (with the one who is ready to start injured), and are pulling Mags and Glasgow out of position? The second sounds simpler to me, and I'm not happy about the sound of this.
Sorry to be a massive Debbie Downer, but this seems like the most rational interpretation of the information. But, as the coaches have been saying, you'll see; we have a game to watch on August 30.
August 14th, 2014 at 8:41 PM ^
Hoke said that Miller is ahead of Glasgow at center based on performance and not as a result of the suspension.. Miller has outperformed Glasgow and that should be encouraging as Glasgow represented himself well last year.
August 14th, 2014 at 8:42 PM ^
Yeah but Hoke makes shit up all the time to tell the media.
August 14th, 2014 at 9:10 PM ^
So if you hear anything bad, that's bad...and if you hear anything good, it must be a lie and is actually also bad. You may want to take a week or two off from following this stuff and come back when we have actual game experience from this year's team to go off of.
August 14th, 2014 at 9:19 PM ^
No, if I hear a true freshman LT is starting for Michigan I assume that's bad regardless of what Hoke says. You've got the causality backwards, Hoke sometimes tells the truth about good stuff. I believe him when he says the linebackers look good, for example.
And God I wish I could take a few weeks off but around mid-August this stuff starts to carry an unhealthy importance for me ha
August 14th, 2014 at 9:44 PM ^
Nuss has found a way to reach Miller with his coaching and scheme that Borges couldn't and Miller is responding as well/better than hoped.
August 14th, 2014 at 9:50 PM ^
Don't get me wrong, I think the offense will be better this year overall. Not having Borges around punching himself in the face every other play will be enough for that. I believe even if the line is bad (I think it will be) Nuss is a good enough coordinator to minimize that. At worst our skill position players are a push vs last year. But the current situation on the line still puts a lower ceiling on the season
August 14th, 2014 at 11:16 PM ^
After last season, your first sentence is more plausible than the reverse.
August 14th, 2014 at 8:43 PM ^
Neither...
It says Bosch and Bryant are not ready (which we saw last year) and that Kalis is the only other viable option...
Cole is not a once-in-a-generation talent - it's that Magnuson has the versatility to play LG and with Kalis out, Cole is going to have to be the starter.
I feel good about this because Miller showed last year that he was better at making line calls but was victimized in the power running style being somewhat small.
August 14th, 2014 at 9:20 PM ^
I hope you're right and I'm wrong and Miller is awesome (or even just ok) this year.
August 14th, 2014 at 9:47 PM ^
the presser you'll feel better. Hoke says a bit more about both Cole, Miller, and Kalis.
August 14th, 2014 at 10:08 PM ^
I agree. After watching the press conference I think the tweets don't really tell the whole story. I think there are three important things Hoke said:
1. Kalis would be starting if he wasn't hurt. He even said "there's no question", which it isn't often that he gives that definitive of an answer. The remaining question on Kalis would be is how serious is this injury?
2. Miller is outplaying Glasgow at center. I'm really 50/50 on this. There are a lot of people on the MIchigan boards claiming to have inside knowledge that Miller is out playing Glasgow. So maybe Hoke is telling the truth. But I also wonder, does Hoke really want Miller believing he is only starting vs. App St. while Glasgow is out and then he's back to the bench? Or does he want him thinking he has a legitimate chance of winning the job out right.
3. He seemed to try to make it clear that Cole is the starter "today", and that is subject to change. It was much different tone than he had when he talked about Kalis being a starter. So I don't think we can write that left side of the depth chart down in ink just yet.
August 14th, 2014 at 10:21 PM ^
should be the 4th bullet. He said the run game looked really good, really good. Had he been flashing on George Orwell he might have said doubleplus good.
Now, is that good news or bad news? The way he was smirking, and the way he's been bubbling about the D to include the DL, I'm taking it as extremely good news.
August 15th, 2014 at 10:04 AM ^
I think that the fundamental issue that is driving all of this is that we are really young at tackle which is affecting depth. I think Miller is honestly the best suited IZ center we have on the team. He was recruited to be D Molk lite. This seems like an ideal situation for him. A team with miller at center and Glasgow at guard is ideal if IZ is what we are going to run.
The lack of tackle depth makes it such that if anyone that is a guard gets injured you have to shift a tackle over. If Braden goes down who plays right tackle? Cole? Magnuson and Cole plays right tackle?
I think the ideal line is magnuson, Glasgow, miller, Kalis, Braden and my concern on that line is Braden. I'm still not convinced that speed rushers won't give him trouble and would frankly be more comfortable with Mason Cole at RT.
I think these are my takeaways:
Glasgow, miller and Kalis are locks to start at the positions they are in barring injury and suspension.
I think magnuson will start somewhere on this line and my guess will be LT as his shoulder improves.
I suspect Braden and Cole will be battling for RT which Cole will eventually win
I think Dawson and Bosch are the guard back ups.
I think we should pray the Chris fox catches up fast as he maybe our only legitimate tackle depth
August 14th, 2014 at 8:42 PM ^
GOD PLEASE NO INJURIES THIS NEXT TWO WEEKS PLEASE GOD!
August 14th, 2014 at 9:29 PM ^
Whelp. You just done and jinxed it.
August 14th, 2014 at 9:21 PM ^
Borges is gone, but he is still in the bloodstream. It takes time to learn a new system and to get the Borges out of the bloodstream!
August 14th, 2014 at 9:33 PM ^
Must of made some great improvement in techniques. The coaches kinds of gave up on him at center after game 3. I've even heard some say he is too small and slow to be playing at the B1G level. I guess, I'm a big worried about the OL and that the younger more talented players are not able to perform.
August 14th, 2014 at 9:57 PM ^
Miller is now pushing 300 which is bigger than Molk was. Others have said Miller was a better "center" last year as far as making calls - and perhaps more importantly actually snapping - than Glasgow but wasn't as good in a power scheme. (Was also a bit smaller last year and probably not as strong = natural progression)
@#$%^ - missed a 9-yard D-Rob run while typing this!!
August 14th, 2014 at 11:28 PM ^
in the weight room and is much stronger, may be he will be more agressive blocking bull rushes up the middle. If he won the position in camp, then I think we should stick with him.
August 15th, 2014 at 9:44 AM ^
Yup, last season I thought Miller may have had the knowledge to play center but was not physically strong enough at that point to hold up. I really hope he has taken a step forward in that regards and probably has as he now has another season of college strength training under his belt.
August 14th, 2014 at 10:08 PM ^
Hoke said the Offensive Line would look like this and it would be this even after Glasgow comes back.
Kalis, a redshirt sophomore, missed the team's scrimmage with a back injury Wednesday. Up until that injury, though, Hoke said Kalis was the player leading the battle there -- leaving Michigan with a rough draft offensive line as follows: left tackle Mason Cole, left guard Erik Magnuson, center Jack Miller, right guard Kyle Kalis and right tackle Ben Braden.
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