Pipkins To Transfer, Says He Was Pressured To Sign Medical Hardship Papers
Pipkins got on the field late in the opener last year [Bryan Fuller]
Ondre Pipkins will attempt to use his last year(s) of eligibility elsewhere and he is not happy about it:
"I feel I'm healthy and ready to play," said Pipkins, who played last season after he was cleared to return from a torn knee ligament. "I don't want to sign the form. I wanted to play for my seniors and for the team. Coach Harbaugh said, 'I recommend you take the medical.'"
Pipkins said he felt constant pressure to retire. …
Harbaugh told him that he wanted "to make sure you graduate from Michigan" and that the coach did not plan to invite him to fall camp due in part to medical concerns. The lineman added that Harbaugh told him that he did not believe he would be drafted into the NFL for medical reasons.
"I feel bad I wasn't able to complete this journey with my classmates," Pipkins told ESPN. "I feel I am healthy and without pain. I believe Michigan wanted to free up the scholarship. I felt I was practicing well and could compete at a high level at the nose tackle and tackle positions."
First off, good for Pipkins for saying something about it—and apparently painting Harbaugh in a somewhat sympathetic light.
But this is a strange situation for a lot of reasons. I can't really figure out why Harbaugh would want to run Pipkins out of town:
- He was scheduled to be a senior and Michigan is at 85 scholarships right now, with the three former walk-ons (Kerridge, Glasgow, Glasgow) we think will get scholarships in 2015 accounted for.
- Pipkins thus doesn't impact the numbers in the 2016 class; the only reason he'd need to go this year is if Michigan was going to bring in yet more transfers.
- ND DE transfer Jhonathan Williams was just told no by Michigan.
- I'm sure at least one other player has a very legit medical hardship-inducing injury they haven't announced yet.
There were some rumors Michigan was looking at fifth year wide receivers that haven't come to fruition as of yet, but none of this really makes sense. Michigan seems to have room for him, and the move would appear to be a redshirt (that he should have gotten as a freshman /shakes fist at Hoke) so that he can be a fifth year somewhere else after getting his degree. That is unless he actually shouldn't play football.
Pipkins asserts in the article that Michigan wanted the scholarship… but for what?
If you use the independent panel what happens when the coach just says "I'm not going to play you?"
Or what happens if the coach gives in and the player has a recurrence of the injury?
Its a tough situation cause on the one said you have kids who have only ever known competing and have been living football for the last X years and on the other you have team doctors who everyone is always going to look for dirt to sling about.
You would hope the NCAA (lolz!) would actually be watching coaches to see how often this situation is coming up and investigating (lolz x 2!) if it is too often.
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someone with a gazillion points you're dropping a ton of negative comments lately. Maybe I'm being way to obtuse to what you're saying, but I've never even once remotely heard that coaches get a cash reward.
Pretty sure that was sarcasm.
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I heard that they can cash in those rewards for hot secretaries if they so choose.
It doesn't always end well
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heard about coaches not receiving cash rewards, but then again I have not not heard about coaches receiving them either...
I deserved the negs. And the clip is fantastic. Mea Culpa.
someone that has been around this blog for at least 4 years you seem to "never even once remotely heard" that sarcasm exists.
Not sure if serious...
Pipkins asserts in the article that Michigan wanted the scholarship… but for what?
I'm all for wining this year, but I just don't like doing it this way...really wish Pip the best of luck.
I second this. Let's not jump to assume this is deeper than it is. I don't like us trying to defend this just as much as I don't like what Urban and the SEC do to kids two years into the program. Pipkins wants to play...that should be where we stop reading. Sorry to Pipkins and I hope this does not become a trend.
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Were you given a scholarship in 2012 to play football at the University of Michigan? Your second sentence should read "if Pipkins is unable to play UP TO THE CURRENT STAFF'S STANDARDS, then he shouldn't." The article clearly says that Pipkins believes he is able to play up to his own standards. Sorry to be blunt but that is the main point of contention.
I'm able to play football up to my own standards. That doesn't mean I could be a competent player for the team, and would just be risking my own health if I tried.
And no, I did not get a scholarship to play football at Michigan. But I got an academic scholarship to attend. And you know, I had to meet certain requirements to keep getting the scholarship money and I'm sure so does Pipkins. The staff doesn't think he is able to play, either safely or at a certain high standard because of his medical condition. He's no longer eligible for a scholarship because he is unable to perform. I wasn't entitled to free scholarship money regardless of my performance and status. And I am sure that goes for any student-athlete as well.
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I think the whole deal here is the scholarship is 4 years. That being said, there is no guarantee that you will see the field. It's seems that Pipkins thinks it does.
A lot of people are making assumptions here without knowing the facts. After all this is the internet. We're never going to know both sides because Harbaugh isn't going to talk about it. Well, maybe Rosenberg will come write a story to set the record straight. /s
Harbaugh was not sending him away from Michigan, he was guaranteeing him a degree from Michigan--this wasn't a "hey go transfer' moment. The fact that Pipkins wants to play and Harbaugh doesn't think he can/should doesn't make Harbaugh (or any coach) a bad guy. They have obviously looked at him and decided he wasn't going to play for us next year for either medical or performance reasons--so Pipkins can either 1- sit the bench under athletic scholarship, be frustrated and upset at not playing, 2- take a medical and stay at M as a student, or 3- transfer. If the coaches aren't going to play you, then it is better for the team that you do either 2 or 3. And that's just a reality.
Everyone on this board wants to believe that is true (myself included), but then again that's what everyone says when a medical hardship is signed. Unbiased logic makes me skeptical about true motivations.
Since we can never look into Harbaugh's heart, we can assess the evidence and decide that either 1- what I said above is true, or 2- that Harbaugh is a venal guy that puts football prospects for his team over the welfare of the player. It's just me, but I always opt for #1 unless proven wrong by other events.
And someone needs to show a tangible motive other than the welfare of the player. Right now that just does not exist.
Unbiased logic? To laugh.
Harbaugh gains nothing from medicalling Pipkins. Unbiased logic says to believe the guy who isn't acting in naked self-interest.
He does if we take on another grad transfer...
He said he couldn't, that Pipkins already counts against the 85-player limit. The department later stood by that comment. Harbaugh could take more grad transfer players if he didn't extend some current walk-on schollies.
Did you have and express those same misgivings when Chris Bryant was told he would no longer be able to continue as a football player?
because he wanted to play too.
Let's not assume that it's deeper than Pipkins is endangering his health if he continues to play, whether he can perform on the field or not.
Let's not compare ourselves to Saban and OSU. Saban has a track record that precludes him from getting the benefit of the doubt. We don't have to be fair to Meyer and OSU. They're our rivals. That's not our role. We shouldn't forget OSU has a history of overlooking shady practices. I won't begrudge any OSU fans that want to take potshots at Harbaugh on their sites. I would hope Michigan fans wouldn't be so quick to jump on their side here without even putting any thought into it.
I feel that we are straining ourselves here to display an exaggerated sense of objectivity. When Harbaugh medicals somebody because he actually needs the schollie, then I'll get upset.
Initially when I read the article, I felt that Pipkins was being pushed out for some improper reason, but the more I think about it, it just doesn't make sense they would push him out. The only explanation I can arrive at is that the coaches honestly don't believe he physically should be playing football anymore and they don't want to see him get injured further.
That was my initial reaction as well. But it makes no sense that Pipkins was pushed out for numbers reasons. The only logical explanation is health. If this happened at any other school, I'd feel the same way. Which is a kid wants to keep playing football and the coaching staff, for valid reasons, doesn't want to let him. That's just a unfortunate circumstance that shouldn't reflect poorly on either the school or player honestly.
This is different from the Jamel Dean situation at OSU. OSU was oversigned and forced out a kid who had yet to even practice with them even though outside sources said he was fine to play, saving them a scholarship for the next 4 years.
Here, a kid is told to retire with legit medical injuries, no outside source saying he's fine, and there's no scholarship motive here. Very different situations.
Feel that? It's your arm getting strained as you reach as hard as possible to give an explanation that other fans of other schools do as well, yet get balked at by Michigan fans.
Were you trying to be clever there? Because you weren't.
And find me an example like this where Michigan fans balked at the explanation. Because right now you're acting all high and mighty, but you've done nothing to prove your point.
I'd like you to point out to me what exact part of my statement is a reach as well.
I'll sit here waiting for you to add something productive to this conversation instead of stroking your own ego.
You're lying to yourself if you don't think Michigan fans woudn't balk at any situation like this at a rival school.
There is 0 reason to try to encourage this move by Harbaugh n co. Do we know who Pipkin's doctor is? Is he Michigan associated? That could explain the sudden change of heart when he got sent back after being "pressured."
I would be willing to wager Harbaugh n co wanted to open up a schollie for a potential transfer we haven't heard of or else this doesn't make sense. Let the kid cook, come camp even if he doesn't get to play much.
He had 1 concussion freshman year, then another in spring and knee arthritis... I doubt this would be an ESPN article if there wasn't another doctor or figure of authority telling this kid otherwise.
Pipkins is insinuating ulterior motives aka don't transfer/medical; we'll put obstacles in front of you until you are forced to.
I'm not going to write this off as simply a coach caring about a health issue just b/c it happens to be our coach. There's more to this and deserves more scrutiny.
This entire post shows me how wrong your initial reaction of "If this were other schools we'd be criticizing them" is.
"There is 0 reason to try to encourage this move by Harbaugh n co."
Really, so keeping him healthy and preventing another injury isn't valid?
"He had 1 concussion freshman year, then another in spring and knee arthritis"
Another way of saying this is 2 concussions, plus the ACL tear you conveiently forgot to mention, and then recurring knee problems stemming from that ACL tear. Plus at one point doctors told him not to play and rest for 6 months. That seems pretty serious to me. Arthritis as a 21/22 year old? That's a huge issue.
"Do we know who Pipkin's doctor is? Is he Michigan associated? That could explain the sudden change of heart when he got sent back after being "pressured.""
"I would be willing to wager Harbaugh n co wanted to open up a schollie for a potential transfer we haven't heard of or else this doesn't make sense. Let the kid cook, come camp even if he doesn't get to play much. "
Literally all of this is baseless speculation with no proof behind it. I have no idea who Pipkin's doctor is. But if you care so much and are spinning so many conspiracy theories, why not go try and find out?
As for the transfer issue, if all he was doing was trying to open up a scholarship for a transfer, why didn't we take Jhonny Williams two days ago? Why did we tell him we were full?
If it's some made up transfer that we've never heard of, I'm very skeptical. In this day and age, when was the last time there was news about a major transfer and there wasn't at least some rumblings about it? If Pipkins was being told for 2 months to medical, than Harbaugh had to have known about this transfer for two months at least. You don't think once in those two months we would have heard about it? How convenient that this made up transfer of yours is also flying so far under the radar when that's literally never happened befor, ever. And now that Pipkins is officially leaving, why hasn't the transfer happened yet?
As for it not making sense: It does if it's about injuries, which it is. This is the first time Harbaugh and his staff have been able to medically evaluate Pipkins, a guy with major knee and head injury history. He's a prime candidate for a medical.
You're basically saying "I know there are legit reasons for why this is okay, but here's a made up one about why it may not be, so I'm right."
"I'm not going to write this off as simply a coach caring about a health issue just b/c it happens to be our coach. There's more to this and deserves more scrutiny. "
And I'm not going to get all high and mighty as a Michigan fan and try to act morally superior to everyone else saying "I'm above bias and I'm criticizing our own team for something" when the reasons for criticizing have no factual basis behind them.
If this were a Purdue player, would you be asking about who his doctor is? No, not a chance.
I'm asking who the doctor is and his associations b/c I got lambasted by people on this board when I suggested that OSU doctors were probably neutral and NOT influenced by coaches.
Yet here you are suggesting that I AM the crazy one by suggesting Michigan doctors may be influenced by coaches...
I'm merely putting the same "conspiracy" scrutiny that you accuse me of on Michigan that people did on OSU.
You can spin it however you want. Purdue isn't our rival. I don't give a fuck about Purdue. I care about Michigan and its rivals.
If this was a star player, nobody would care about his 2 concussions over the span of 3 years. Going from cleared to play, to trainer "pressure," to 6 month sit sounds fishy as hell to me.
"I'm asking who the doctor is and his associations b/c I got lambasted by people on this board when I suggested that OSU doctors were probably neutral and NOT influenced by coaches. "
So when it came to OSU you were trying to suggest that the doctors were neutral, but now you're trying to suggest that they weren't with Michigan. Basically instead of being biased towards Michigan, you're being biased towards OSU.
You're trying to say that we should treat this with as much skepticism as we did the OSU case. Then shouldn't you treat this with as little skepticism as you did the OSU case?
You're doing the exact same thing you're trying to criticize, except just the opposite way. I don't know if you think being a contrarian makes it better, but it doesn't.
"If this was a star player, nobody would care about his 2 concussions over the span of 3 years. Going from cleared to play, to trainer "pressure," to 6 month sit sounds fishy as hell to me. "
That's just not true. Earlier this offseason Jack Miller retired partially due to concussion concerns, saying he had two or three at Michigan, about the same as Pipkins (source). Miller isn't a star, but he played a hell of a lot more than Pipkins. Granted Miller left on his own accord, but I'm sure Harbaugh had no problem with it either. I'm sure he agreed that Miller's health needed to come first. Maybe after that conversation with Miller, he brought it up with Pipkins? It would line up with the timeline, since Miller retired 3 months ago and Pipkins said he's been pressured for 2.
Also, if any school needs to be cautious with concussion concerns, it's us after the Morris stuff last year.
And once again, why do you keep ignoring the torn ACL and major knee problems Pipkins had? Because in combo with the concussions, that seems like a great reason for a medical redshirt.
The ACL stuff has always been an issue, then why clear to play for a period of time and then unclear him again so soon knowing his history? Just keep him benched to make it clear.
Why is it an issue again after his 2nd concussion?
The article infers that it's the knee, not some combination of the 2 causing the 6 month sit from his doctors.
And again... not all rivals are nefarious with all their decisions and not all alma maters are righteous. Hence the swapped skepticism. For every contrarian there are 50 other people who will side with their school. I don't need to follow the herd.
This could very well be bad timing, but front page ESPN worthy? Idk, it's just odd.
"Why is it an issue again after his 2nd concussion? "
Do you even read what you write before hitting "save?"
Why is his ... knee.... an issue after his 2nd concussion?
Ask yourself... would I really be wondering why a concussion would be an issue in this day and age after a 2nd one?
Your answer should be no....
Now ask yourself again.... what could that "it" be referring to?
Your answer.... Oh maybe he's talking about why the knee is an issue when he got a head injury...
Ahhhh there you go buddy.
For a few reasons. The first being that Harbaugh wasn't the coach during ANY of Pipkin's injuries, so Harbaugh did NOT clear Pipkins for any period of time. You're acting like Harbaugh was the one who decided to play Pipkins again last year. He wasn't, that was Hoke. Harbaugh has never let Pipkins play a down, in fact he's barely let Pipkins practice if at all. So nothing Harbaugh has done with Pipkins has contradicted anything else he's done.
Also, things can get worse. Here's an incredibly far fetched potential reason that I had to rack my brain for HOURS to think about:
- Pipkins gets injured two years ago against Minnesota
- He rehabs, comes back last year
- He plays the first few games last year but isn't 100%, still has some lingering issues
- He tries to come rehab again during the year, hence him sitting out every game except Indiana after the Miami game
- He still has some issues, and it's not getting any better
- He keeps trying to rehab, but he's setback even more, coaches tell him to rest for 6 months
- Harbaugh comes in, and with stricter player safety standards, tells him to medical
That's a very reasonable timeline of events. Injuries can get worse. Players attempt to comeback but get hurt again all the time, like Derrick Walton this year in basketball. This isn't a video game, it's not as black and white as just sitting a guy and everything magically gets better. I'm sure Pipkins also didn't want to sit, and maybe he came back earlier than he should have.
And I know you're going to ask why the coach matters. It's because the coach has final say. Even if the medical staff recommends something like a medical, it's up to the coach to implement it. It's why OSU had such a drastic increase in medicals when Urban showed up despite having the same medical staff. And it's not like Hoke was a strict guy with player safety (Morris...) so it's very possible Harbaugh has stricter policies
"Why is it an issue again after his 2nd concussion?
The article infers that it's the knee, not some combination of the 2 causing the 6 month sit from his doctors."
Because sometimes multiple injuries can make things even worse? If a linebacker breaks a hand, they can still play with a cast sometimes. But if they break a leg as well, they can't play at all. Multiple injuries makes things worse.
"For every contrarian there are 50 other people who will side with their school. I don't need to follow the herd."
Okay, but that doesn't also mean "There's more to this and deserves more scrutiny." as you said earlier. Maybe there is, but all signs point towards no. Just because you're a contrarian doesn't mean you're right.
"This could very well be bad timing, but front page ESPN worthy? Idk, it's just odd."
What timing are you talking about? Timing that this came out after Pipkins talked to an ESPN reporter? Yeah, shocker.
Also I hope you reaize ESPN is a joke now. They had Wiz Khalifa play live on Sportscenter for 10 minutes last night to boost ratings. They'll do anything for clicks, like run a story like this.
Fair enough.
Oh and you can stop upvoting yourself now. You know egos and all...
;)
Cheers.
You caught me, I managed to upvote myself twice on my comments. Guilty as charged
Your comments just appear with 1 upvote instantly. Bambi is magical.
On your first point, there's no inconsistency here at all. And it's not simply being a contrarian to always consider all sides. If people are aggressively negative, it's always good practice to explore the positive as well, and vice versa. It's being circumspect, not contrarian. And it's sharp reasoning.
And earlier on, you were asking for evidence that M fans take the SEC to task for similar situations. You really need evidence for that? You can't in good faith acknowledge that? Rather, you insist that he scour message boards and earlier postings to confirm what we all (and you) know is true? Asking for evidence when unnecessary doesn't make you more logical or rational. It's akin to the CSI effect, thinking that you're offering something superior when in fact it just has the air of logic and reasoning. But it's the exact opposite.
Your responses are the argumentative equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and going 'Nah nah nah, I can't hear you!'
Up your logic game, son.
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