This Is Our Concern, Basketball Edition Comment Count

Brian

2/28/2016 – Michigan 57, Wisconsin 68 – 20-10, 10-7 Big Ten

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[Patrick Barron]

I try to avoid putting certain thoughts on twitter during basketball games because the replies they draw tend to send me into a "someone is wrong on the internet" pit. This didn't go so well yesterday, in both directions.

I expressed frustration at Michigan's horrendous defense in the first half, when Wisconsin bricked a huge array of wide open threes. I got a couple responses about how it was better to give up wide open threes than to let Nigel Hayes eat in the paint, with one guy offering up Hayes's shot chart as evidence. Evidence of what, though?

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Hayes isn't actually an efficient offensive player this year in any way except one: he gets to the line a lot. He's suffered with the extra usage heaped on him in the absence of Dekker and Kaminsky; Wisconsin has a lot of bad possessions and Hayes ends up taking a lot of 15-footers as a result. He's good at those, which is like being good at writing about Rutgers sports.

As a whole, Wisconsin is decent at threes (4th in the league) and mediocre at twos (7th). They are not a team that you should be constantly doubling until they get a launch off. This is what Michigan did in the first half; they got lucky. So I got into a fight about that despite the fact that Hayes wasn't even taking the open threes.

Later, I expressed further frustration at Michigan's defense and got an array of FIRE HIS ASS and PATHETIC replies. I have only myself to blame.

-------------------------------------------

But it's true, and playing Wisconsin is designed to highlight everyone's frustration with this year's basketball team. At halftime I predicted a ten point Wisconsin win in our slack channel, and there was grunting agreement. UMHoops felt the same way:

It was, with Wisconsin staking itself to a seven point lead by hitting six straight shots. The threes versus twos discussion became moot as Michigan failed to defend either well. Then you look over at Wisconsin's collection of athletes. Wisconsin features a guy Mark Donnal wrecked in high school and a variety of gentlemen who seem like ringers grabbed from the Plattville YMCA. Their main post is a freshman. They are 18th in defensive efficiency.

It's pretty tough not to be sour at Beilein after watching a bunch of try-hard types with excellent organization stifle Michigan. It's pretty tough not to be sour when Vitto Brown, the guy that Donnal worked in high school, goes 4/6 from three on six uncontested looks.

I don't expect Michigan to be actually good at defense for a lot of different reasons, but there's a difference between Michigan's usual meh and this. The trend is worrying. Defensive efficiency in the Beilein era:

  • 2008: 100th
  • 2009: 69th
  • 2010: 58th
  • 2011: 37th
  • 2012: 61st
  • 2013: 48th
  • 2014: 109th
  • 2015: 107th
  • 2016: 145th

This is the third straight year of a triple-digit ranking. While you may remember things as "not good" even when the larger picture was much prettier, this is a whole new era of ineptness only matched by Beilein's first team of castoffs and runaways. This year's team is in fact considerably worse despite than those guys despite having a reasonable amount of experience. For the first time in a while Michigan doesn't have a freshman playing major minutes; for the first time in a while they've crawled out of the 300s in Kenpom's experience stat. This was the first year in a while you could reasonably expect year to year improvement, and yet.

The reason that the world expected Wisconsin to pull away in the second half is because they had a guy where Michigan was when their shots went up and Michigan did not do this. There is no reason for this based on the guys on the court. That is what's scary about this team and those down the road: something appears to have left the program over the last three years. The 2014 team managed to paper over it with Nik Stauskas and his merry band; Michigan outfits that do not have the ability to finish #1 in offensive efficiency have not found a plan B.

This is in no way a plea to fire anybody. Michigan has lost an NBA first round pick to injury each of the last three years, along with their starting PG last year and backup PG this year. If a Tom Izzo player gets a hangnail it gets a special edition of SportsCenter on which Izzo weeps and quavers; Michigan has suffered the insult of injury stoically.

But there's no reason that losing Caris Levert would send the defense into a tailspin. There's no reason that Ricky Doyle should go from promising freshman to afterthought in a year. There's no reason that Michigan should find itself 11th in defense in a league featuring luminaries like Penn State, Rutgers, Northwestern, and Illinois. This is our concern, dude.

Bullets

I mean like whatever. I am super not into this basketball team for the reasons detailed above, which I why I haven't written about it much. Whatever motive force was behind the back to back elite eight teams left the building with Stauskas and has not given a hint of a return.

I would not be surprised to see a coaching shakeup after the year. Beilein did it once before, and since he's clearly not going to be the guy who fixes the defense he's got to get someone in who can give it a shot.

Bright spots? Michigan had a bunch of tight curl screen action that we hadn't seen much of before that was effective; they also made a number of interior passes to their bigs in situations they had not attempted much previously. Those resulted in a few turnovers but also a number of shots at the rim that were generally effective.

I wonder how much of the problem with the offense is that there aren't many good passers on the team. MAAR and Irvin are getting better but had to come up from absolutely zero assists; Walton is so bad inside the arc that there's not much reason to overplay him. This is no longer a bright spot. Sorry.

I'm shocked. Jon Crispin does not like dabbing.

Comments

bronxblue

February 29th, 2016 at 1:49 PM ^

Just because it costs a lot doesn't mean it is better than other places. Lots of it is the integration with the program and how it is used to draw players in. And both Allen and Cameron are great facilities even if they are a bit older.

Wolverine Devotee

February 29th, 2016 at 1:57 PM ^

And all the money in the world won't buy the history and foundation of greatness that Duke and Kansas have.

People are freaking delusional here and hold the Basketball program to similar expectations as the Football program. You know, the top program in the history of the sport.

MBB isn't even in the top-50 all-time in wins. Our longest tournament streak is a whopping 6 years.

And you want to fire the guy that fished this basketball program out of the abyss after not even making it out of the first weekend (of the few NCAA appearances we did have) in 20 years.

 

Maizen

February 29th, 2016 at 3:18 PM ^

You're too young to understand what Michigan basketball used to be. The tournament used to be extremely small and hard to get into for a long time, so your mention of a streak means little. 

Again comparing the Beilein era to the Ellerbe/Amaker era is like comparing every Michigan football coach to the Rich Rod/Hoke era. It's dumb, irresponsible, and lacks context.

Best to just sit this one out junior.

 

umchicago

February 29th, 2016 at 3:44 PM ^

let's fire a guy after finishing 7-11 in the BIG last year and at worst 10-8 this year while suffering crippling injuries.  this after a finals appearance, elite 8, and two BIG titles in the past 5 years.

dumb dumb dumb.

Maizen

February 29th, 2016 at 6:43 PM ^

The immunity Beilein operates with some in this fan base is simply baffling. 

He'll be living off those two good years for the next decade.

What a joke.

 

bronxblue

February 29th, 2016 at 7:28 PM ^

Feel free to root for another team coached by someone better if you want. It seems like you are super passionate about basketball, and that UM under Broke in really bothers you. Unless you hate losing and would proudly wear your UM fandom if this team made a weird run to the sweet 16. Which I'm not saying is likely, but given how my,interactions with you on this thread have gone, wouldn't surprise me.

bronxblue

February 29th, 2016 at 5:46 PM ^

Well, sure UM was good in the mid-to-late 90's.  But that was 20+ years ago, or well beyond the age of the current recruits UM is trying to snag.  I mean, this is the history of UM basketball in their lifetime.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/michigan/

The tournament expanded to 64 teams in 1985; before then, it was 48 teams.  Sure, you back to the 70's and you have 32 teams and less, but you are getting into "get off my lawn" territory if that's your frame of reference for "recent".

Maizen

February 29th, 2016 at 6:46 PM ^

What's your point? Michigan football had been crap for a decade before Harbaugh showed up. No one lowered their expecations for the football team. Hell MSU was nothing before Izzo showed up. Same with Florida and Donovan. Point being the coach makes all the difference. Beilein is an average coach who's about to miss the tournament for the 4th time in 9 years. But yeah, that's totally acceptable here. Get real.

bronxblue

February 29th, 2016 at 7:25 PM ^

They weren't crap. They were relatively down, with pockets of really solid play even under RR and Hoke. it was crap for almost a decade and a half before Beilein turned the program around. And they also have a much longer history of consistent performance, including a great bowl streak. UM is a blue blood in football because they earned it for decades; kids don't care about Cazzie Russell. But whatever, keep rooting for this imaginary UM juggernaut.

jmblue

February 29th, 2016 at 3:29 PM ^

But check out Kansas, UK, Duke, etc. and you'll see amazing basketball facilities.

Do you know for a fact that their facilities are better than ours, or is this an assumption you're making because of their success?

From what I understand, we studied a lot of other programs' facilitties before we went ahead with the PDC and Crisler renovations.  

 

Maizen

February 29th, 2016 at 3:30 PM ^

He has no clue what he's talking about. Duke spent $15.1 million on their facility and Kansas spent $18 million on theirs. Michigan spent $26.5 million. And another $75 million on Crisler. I've seen all three and countless others with my own eyes. Michigan has top 10 facilities in the country.

bronxblue

February 29th, 2016 at 6:20 PM ^

You seem hell-bent on just insulting and yelling people into submission with numbers, so by all means keep thinking that UM has top-10 facilities and that recruits should be flocking there.  But I'd argue that UM simply caught up with other basketball-centric schools, but certainly hasn't surpassed what many of them have.  Plus, UM's basketball history isn't half as rich as what you'd find at KU, Duke, IU, etc., which further limits the impact on recruits.

But guess what, you win.  UM basketball would be better off without John Beilein.  Despite all recent evidence to the contrary, with a shiny-new basketball practice facility and a much-needed renovation to a mediocre basketball arena, UM should be knocking down the doors of top-50 recruits and snagging a bunch of them.  

This place is hilarious when not-great times roll around; it's as reactionary and full of whiny tough-guy internet bullshit as any place we make fun of.

Erik_in_Dayton

February 29th, 2016 at 3:53 PM ^

...I don't know for sure.  I do know that you'll be treated as a god at KU in a way that you won't be at Michigan.  That whole campus - and most of the state - is mad for Jayhawk basketball.  I don't think U of M likes Michigan football as much as KU likes the Jayhawk basketball team.

EDIT: I went to KU as an undergrad.  I know what I'm talking about.  

bronxblue

February 29th, 2016 at 6:07 PM ^

UM spends money like everyone, but facilities don't just mean the actual building where they players practice.  Crisler is fine and looks light-years better than it did, but I'd argue to the end that places like Allen Fieldhouse and Cameron Indoor Stadium are much better places to watch a basketball game than Crisler (in part because the fans seem to be more distant), and recruits pick up on that.  Is it a massive hindrance for recruiting?  Probably not.  But this idea that because UM spent millions of dollars on a facility that they immediately jump to the top of a list seems based mostly on price tag and not on the overall effect on the players and the experience at the sames.  I mean, UM stadium isn't some amazing architectural wonder compared to other places, but it has a charm (and a history) that recruits and players pick up on.  Crisler doesn't have that.

Maizen

February 29th, 2016 at 1:50 PM ^

You're joking right? There are maybe 5-6 schools in the country who have equal let alone better facilities than Michigan, that's it. The PDC is the most expensive practice facility in the entire country. More expensive than what IU has, than what UNC has, than what Duke has, than what Kansas has, than what damn near every other program in the country has. Crisler got a $75 million dollar renovation. Outside of a few schools whol have built brand new arena's the list of universities who sunk that much into their arena's you can literally count on one hand. You are massively underselling UofM's facilites. They are top 10 in the country at worst by any metric. Get fucking real on this.

I real don't care about the population shift. When it comes to basketball Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, etc are all still stacked with talent. 

You defending this offense and defense is baffling. It's like you haven't watched the last two years of basketball with this team. You need NBA players on your roster year after year if you expect to compete. No one is arguing Beilein didn't have good teams in 2013 and 2014. But Jesus Christ how long is the guy going to live off those two fuckign years? He's made 1 final 4 in his life. History suggests those two years are outliers and that this year is more in line with how his teams perform.

It's ok to disagree but people have their head in the sand on this guy. There are MAJOR problems with this program and they aren't getting addressed.

Space Coyote

February 29th, 2016 at 2:00 PM ^

Then it's your head in the sand. Just because the PDC was expensive, doesn't make it even close to the top total basketball facilities in college basketball.

They are nice facilities, no doubt. They are not a detriment to the program, no doubt. But recruits aren't coming to the PDC and being blown away compared to other major facilities. And if you think they are, then you clearly haven't seen many of the other major basketball facilities around college basketball and aren't aware of the truth.

Also, just because Michigan spent a huge lump sum to fix up the awful facilities they had, doesn't make them better than other facilities that have been getting regular upgrades for years now. The problem was, Michigan had some of the worst major facilities in all of college basketball. They needed a huge lump sum improvement just to compete with other places.

Space Coyote

February 29th, 2016 at 2:27 PM ^

At least Duke, Kansas, Indiana, UNC, Kentucky, and Louisville are better than Michigan's. I'd argue of the others on that list that I've seen, that they are at least equal to Michigan's.

And compared to many of those on that list, Michigan isn't paying nearly the top dollar as almost all of those other schools for recruits.

Maizen

February 29th, 2016 at 2:46 PM ^

I don't give a shit what you would argue. You're just flat out wrong. I've seen all those facilities with my own eyes. Rupp is a dump in need of a massive renovation that UK can't fund right now. Cook hall at indiana and the Duke facility each cost 10-12 million less than the PDC at Michigan. Arizona doesn't even have a practice facility. The only facility that's better is the Craft Center at UK. MSU's just got a facelift but at a fraction of the cost of the PDC.

You're fucking delusional. Stop spreading lies to the mgoreaders. 

Space Coyote

February 29th, 2016 at 3:10 PM ^

And so is the Joe Craft Center, and the Coal Dorms that all the basketball players stay in that are essentially luxary apartments, etc.

Joe Craft Center

Video of the living arrangments:

Facilities are more than just the arena they play games in.

So you can keep "not giving a shit" and keep saying "fuck", but it doesn't make you correct. You can claim Michigan has top 10 basketball facilities, and that claim is wrong.

charblue.

February 29th, 2016 at 12:54 PM ^

or rebounding the basketball under Beilein. It just hasn't. When the team is on and offensively efficient, those issues can be mostly overlooked.

But it was so frustrating last night watching Michigan scramble defensively, force perimeter or even under the basket passes by the Badgers and still not come away with the ball after poor shooting situaitoins, playing pretty decent denial and iso coverage on guys and then come down and give the ball away with too much dribbling and overplay in the lane.

For whatever reason, this particular team just doesn't seem to have a certain will and drive to win that other Michigan teams have had under Beiein regardless of their defensive limitations.

Michigan doesn't have a 4 or 5 guy, who can keep a dominant power forward from scoriing down low Not since Morgan's graduation has there been a consistent inside defensive presence and ability to close out the lane and prevent iso scoring on late drives. Michigan was repeatedly burned in the second half off the dribble from the outside. And if Hayes wasn't getting iniside, then it was somebody else, and nobody of major stature or ability.

I understand the frustration with this team. And it almost appeared at times that Zak Irvin seemed unconcerned about losing the ball off the dribblle, poor passes or quick shots in repeated possessions dowh the stretch. Failing to convert easy baskets or coming away with loose balls and allowing baskets off poor Wisconsin offensive sets that should have resulted in either TO's or shot-clock violations were the death-knell last night. But we've seen last night's game so many times before this season.

I thought watching that team in the first half, that it seemed seasoned, was playing with a certain confidence and tournament-ready approach, but then that other team showed up. The one that doesn't know where to go for points when the threes aren't flowing and they can't score inside because of poor passing or other issues. It's hard to know how much of a difference Caris would have made i n certain games. But at this point, it doesn't seem to matter one way or the other. This team just isn't ready for whatever is ahead.

 

 

BornInAA

February 29th, 2016 at 1:02 PM ^

Yeah the Beilein scheme has always been high level outside and 3 shooting, great defense and good ball handling. The boards and inside paint game were mostly given away.

This current roster has a lot of cold shooting streaks, a limp defense and coughs up the ball a lot. They are not playing his system. 

I don't know if this group of players are incapable of playing his system (a recruiting problem), or he is no longer able to coach players into his system (a coaching problem).

 

Space Coyote

February 29th, 2016 at 1:36 PM ^

He could care; he could care a lot less. It's clear he puts a strong emphasis on his offense, because that's where his bread is and has been buttered. It's clear this year, and the past few year's defense hasn't been good enough. But to say he doesn't care about defense is false. He'd love to have a top defense, just not at the expense of a bad offense. It's priorities. He prioritizes a strong offense, he needs to bring someone in that can get this defense to where it needs to be to at least compliment that.

Nothsa

February 29th, 2016 at 1:11 PM ^

Going into that game I was cautiously optimistic about Indiana's chances. That optimism eroded away over the first 10 minutes, but then the doors came off. There seemed to be a couple of factors:

1. Jimmys and Joes: IU had better players across the board. There wasn't one matchup in which I didn't prefer the Hoosier.

2. Coaching: Beilein let IU's run go from "concerning" to "galaxy-obliterating" without appearing to do anything to staunch the bleeding. Crean did some nice things. I'm saying that grudgingly, not being a TC fanboy.

3. Mentality: After some Indiana defensive adjustments (and IU is not a great defensive team) Michigan found itself playing hero ball and forcing 12 foot contested jumpers. (Again, where was the time out?) The team was unable to get back in transition time after time, or to pick up on IU's scoring threats. Mental toughness is one of those qualitative, BS-laden terms, but wow, there was a huge lack in that game at least.

At the end I wasn't sure how much of the win was due to Indiana's outstanding play (and some of it was outstanding), and how much to the top-to-bottom collapse of Michigan's game (because that was a comprehensive failure to execute). But Beilein certainly needs to take a hard look at the program this offseason.

 

93Grad

February 29th, 2016 at 1:11 PM ^

and you could see it coming if you have been following recruiting for the last three years.  It is amazing to me how badly the staff fared on the recruiting trail coming off an NC run.  They totally blew an opportunity to turn this program into perrenial top 15 program.

jcgary

February 29th, 2016 at 2:22 PM ^

I agree completely that it is a leadership thing. 

'08-'09 - CJ Lee and David Merritt were the leaders and the succeeded

'09-'10 - People thought this team would be great because Manny Harris but he wasn't a leader and they had lost their leaders from the year before with no one to replace

'10-'11 - Stu Douglas and Zac Novak step up as leaders and the team improves

'11-'12 - Same as the previous year

'12-'13 - Burke, McGary and Jordan Morgan become the leaders

'13-'14 - Stauskas, Morgan, McGary, Spike

'14-'15 - Spike (No leadership from anyone else)

'15-'16 - No Spike due to injury, Irvin & Walton should be the leaders but are not filling that role very well.  

I see them needing someone like a CJ Lee, Novak, Burke or McGary that will step up and lead the other guys on and off the floor and that is what they have been lacking last season and this season and feels similar to the '09-'10 season when Manny should have been the leader.  

Coaching can only go so far you also need to have players that want to be leaders.  

WolverineHistorian

February 29th, 2016 at 1:18 PM ^

We've never really defended the 3. That's why I'm in shock when any opponent misses one against us. They're going to start dropping eventually so you might want to try to be in the same time zone as the shooter. I think everyone knew Wisconsin would be coming back in the second half last night. It was expected long before it actually happened.

This season has been disappointing. The wins over Maryland and Purdue were nice (if ugly) but otherwise, it was a whole lot of getting blown out by good teams and playing too many close, stressful games against the bottom dwellers. Losing both games against the rivals and getting destroyed by Tom Creen's annoying ass means we are winless in the games I wanted to win the most.

Two years removed from winning the conference outright, I'm just hoping for a chance at us barely making the tournament where we will, no doubt, get blown out in the first round. I'd still prefer that to playing in the NIT.



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champswest

February 29th, 2016 at 1:56 PM ^

because we play a sagging help defense and we aren't very good at it. When the ball swings to the right side, Robinson will sag all the way into the paint. When it swings back to a guy standing behind the three point line ready to catch and shoot, Duncan  can't recover fast enough to contest the shot. He isn't the only one who has this problem.

We also lost to MSU and OSU in football this year, so it hasn't been a good year for UM vs rivals.

True Blue Grit

February 29th, 2016 at 1:20 PM ^

frustration with Beilein teams' lack of inside scoring/defense/rebounding to a new level.  I've been able to look past it with his past teams' success from the perimeter.  But now I've become more and more disgusted watching other teams beat us up on the inside and score at will in the paint because we have no one tough enough or athletic enough to stop it.  It's a combination of our losses on the recruiting trail but also Beilein's philosophy.  He almost never puts 2 bigs in the lineup at the same time even tough he could - including against teams that are kicking our ass in the paint.  This is definitely not the kind of Michigan basketball I've watched in the past.  

Go Blue in MN

February 29th, 2016 at 2:30 PM ^

we need to play Donnal at the 4.  That means we would have to give more minutes at the 5 to Doyle, Wagner, and Wilson.  That doesn't seem like a winning strategy to me with this year's team, as none of those guys has been consistenly deserving of minutes.

It will be interesting to see next year whether JB uses Donnal at the 4 very often with two new bigs coming in and the potential for improvement from Doyle, Wagner, and Wilson.  With Simpson being added and no one leaving among our guards/wings (those who are not hurt), it will be crowded.  I hope it will foster some fierce competition for playing time. 

Ghost of Hoke

February 29th, 2016 at 1:23 PM ^

Defense is effort and basketball IQ. Good coaching should instill and develop those attributes. Something is very wrong.



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Space Coyote

February 29th, 2016 at 1:39 PM ^

And there is some element of truth to it, but it greatly devalues great defensive play. Great defense takes effort, just like great offense takes effort. Great defense takes high IQ, just like great offense takes high IQ. Great defense also takes skill, just like great offense does. Great defense takes scheming and technique, just like great offense does. Great defense takes great ability, just like great offense does.

Grit McGrit from the mean streets of such-and-such that watches a ton of basketball doesn't automatically make a great defender. 

bronxblue

February 29th, 2016 at 1:45 PM ^

Yeah. you watch NBA defenses and you see incredible skill displayed. Wiscy has gotten away with bodying guys up and getting close to injuries, but they have also always had really solid defensive systems and players who can execute. The idea that shooting a ball takes skill and stopping someone from doing it is all heart speaks to people thinking they would be able to play MJ tough because they "care" while sitting on their sofa.

Ghost of Hoke

February 29th, 2016 at 6:56 PM ^

Moving your damn feet, getting your hands up, knowing when to help/not help, rotating etc. are much easier skills to learn than being an excellent shooter. Everyone in the league including Rutgers has a better defense. Skill and talent aren't the reasons for that.



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