That seems to be Pearlies biggest concern. Apparently RR alleviated the fear but lol, that is some great negative recruiting.
that makes one of us
It would be nice to know which schools are saying that...
No mention, but I would assume Tennessee and Texas Tech amongst others.
actually provided some evidence of this.
It was a small piece of $$$ info. Didnt see the need to post the whole thing but go look over on GBW if you are interested.
every 40 years. Not to mention the $4Mill we just paid WVU and another $4Mill be would have to pay RR. Yea, I am pretty sure RR is going to get fired.
That isn't negative recruiting it's stupid recruiting.
recruits' abilities to figure this out. I'm not calling them all stupid, either - if a coach can successfully plant a doubt in a kid's mind and they have a zillion options elsewhere, they won't chance it. High school kids aren't going to dive into the mind of our AD and think critically. They trust a lot of what coaches are going to tell them (in a perfect world, this would be justified) and are easily swayed.
If you're not close to the program, its perfectly reasonable to think (or at least to say to anyone) that if we struggle next year that RR would get fired. People around the nation were really shocked at this years record, I know from conversation with friends around the country that they all were WTFing, and have asked me the same question when I mention that I think its possible we could be 7-5 next year.
Tech's Coach was after every opening last year and Tenn. head coach was just fired from the Oakland Raiders.
Where did you hear this?
edited: just saw a quasi-reference above, but would like more detail.
One of the blogs on there. They talked to Pearlie.
Lol fired? We'll get atleast 6 wins. But thats a understatement. We'll be givin 6 easy wins, and the rest are toss ups.. this yr we'll go 8-4. No fire. Then in 2010 we'll be 10-11 wins. Then 2011 we'll be 13-0
Your blind optimism truly is a beautiful thing to see.
So, in other words, Steve Threet as a senior or Forcier as a true junior is going to win a national championship? Wow.
I see nothing wrong with that.
Nor do I.
In all seriousness, isn't that why we follow all this recruiting nonsense and get so excited about kids who have never played a minute of college football - because we think it will make us awesome? If you're expecting 8-4 forever, even if that makes you a "realist," why do you waste so much time on here? It's easy to be the cynic who says we're gonna suck and then say I told you so after each loss. I say assume we're awesome until otherwise happens. It makes life much more enjoyable. It makes the losses a little tougher, but come on, like any of us aren't bummed when we lose.
for the reasons you just laid out. When we suck, the pessimist will parade their predictions out in front of everyone and claim to be the realist. When things are good, everyone forgets what the pessimist said or they play the "thank God I was wrong!" card and everyone nods in approval. Then, since they are a fan of the program, they get to join in the cheers and people generally choose not to shun them...unlike the rival that is down on your team, you likely will not feel the need to rub it in the face of "one of your own."
This is why I hate the fan/pessimist hybrid. It's super fucking annoying. And I already know your response of "well you are a homer, etc etc blah blah." Cram it-there's a difference. People can hold realistic optimism or even semi-unrealistic optimism supported by circumstantial evidence and not be a homer.
Well, surprise surprise, I completely disagree. It's much easier to be a raving slapdick than to be objective when talking about a team that you are a fan of.
I am NOT saying that any of you guys are "raving slapdicks" either.
I'm not surprised. Also not surprising that you either didn't read it or actually think that your response is, well, responsive to what I wrote.
I'd love for you to point me in the direction of me urging people to be raving slapdicks. All I'm telling people to do is to err on the side of optimism. And-another big surprise-no matter what your opinion is, I prefer people to argue coherently and with some form of evidence backing up their assertions. But when there is gray area, why not err on the side of optimism? That's the whole point of being a fan.
You do the exact opposite. Wherever there is room for doubt or a potentially bad scenario - you take it. Without fail. You think that's what it means to be objective? That's about as objective as Fox News or Keith Olbermann covering the presidential debates.
Further, why the HELL are you concerned with being objective? You are not a journalist. You are a fan - the antithesis of objectivity.
You're angry again. Please calm down.
If you noticed, I said that I wasn't specifically talking about anybody here being "raving slapdicks." I was speaking in more general terms about how fans view their favorite teams. I do try to be objective when discussing a particular team that I am a fan of.
told me to never back down from a challenge.
And you came pretty close to calling those that don't think like you do raging slapdicks. It was either a non sequitur or an implication that optimists are slapdicks.
I kind of want to say it again - slapdick.
EDIT: stop editing. I get what you are trying to say. It just didn't belong as a counterargument to my post.
I'm trying to edit some of my spelling errors. I also don't understand what kind of "challenge" you think you're engaging in. I have an opinion that differed from yours. I expressed it. You got upset and took offense to it. You take things much too seriously.
You can say whatever you want. I don't get mad. I just like arguing.
And this isn't to anyone in particular, but lots of people tend to freak out, get mad or withdraw when I ask them questions or ask them to back up an opinion. It's like that fight club scene where people try and get in fistfights as an assignment and can't get anyone to engage them.
Jay fills that need. Jay definitely does not drink the Michigan "kool aid." Maybe that stirs a little bit of anxiety in everyone here.
Everyone should cut him a fucking break. I (and am sure Jay as well) am damn tired of it.
You (or others, who I am really addressing) hate Jay being so pessimistic? Well, address his concerns. There are times to have concerns. This recruiting class and coming year is one.
Make no mistake. This coming season is a watershed one. A mediocre or good one, and Michigan is on its way.
A bad season like the last very likely spells the end of the RR era at Michigan, and will result is an even longer spell of unthinkable mediocrity.
Jay perceives the potential disaster that looms and other major programs have endured. Michigan is not immune. Do not kill the messenger.
I'm capable of comprehending the difficulties we face and the potential consequences of failure...but I can still remain positive. Seriously, it's not ignoring reality to be positive.
I had a friend that went game by game with me in '07 and predicted 11 wins for ND without batting an eye. THAT is ignoring reality. I'm not here to promote that.
I had a friend that went game by game with me in '07 and predicted 11 wins for ND without batting an eye.
Well that had to be quite entertaining for you to say the least!
Your posts have been a lot less visually appealing since you dropped the gorgeous chick from your avatar.
I'm not sure if this comment was directed at me or not, but I'm just about the last person who should be called a pessimist. If you were on this board in 2007, I'm the guy who took lots of shit for supporting Lloyd Carr, being positive after the ASU and Oregon losses, and calling everyone on the board "pussies" because they were whining about Michigan's performance in the first half of the Northwestern game (which we ended up winning).
You can be a fan and be objective. I'm not always objective, but I try. What good does it do me to expect a 13-0 season? Why can't I expect, for example, 9-3? If we do that, it reaches my expectations. If we win more games than that, then I'm pleasantly surprised. And if we win less games than that, perhaps I'm not as devastated by it as those who expect 13-0.
Back to the topic, though...
I think you're lying to yourself if you picture Steve Threet leading a national championship-caliber offense. I'm not saying he's bad - I think he might turn out to be a decent QB - but I don't think he's national championship-caliber. I think Forcier has more upside, especially in this offense, but I also think it's a little much to expect a 13-0 season from him in three years.
I'm not saying Threet can't be successful, but if you look at the best teams from this year, McCoy was good as a freshman, Bradford was great as a freshman, Sanchez was the #1 quarterback (blocked by studs) as a freshman, and Tebow was Jesus as a freshman.
I hope to hell that I'm wrong. I'll root for Michigan every step of the way, and I'll admit I'm wrong if Threet wins a NC or if Forcier wins one as a junior. But are you going to convince me to be blindly optimistic? Probably not.
this and can firmly address it. Maybe he should have Bill Martin call Pearlie to prove it.
And, yes, I believe that a Senior Threet and Junior Tate can go 12-0.
Friend: Oh, hey, you went to Michigan, didn't you! Rough year.
Misopogon: Yes, it was a rough year.
Friend: What happened to you guys?
Misopogon: Well, there were a ton of freshmen all over the place, and an offensive system that wasn't what most of the guys signed on for, but also there was a walk-on quarterback, and the offensive line got inj..
Friend: Whoa, whoa, but what about all the talent you usually recruit?
Misopogon: Well, as I was sayin...the quarterback was a walk-on and..
Friend: So, you guys just weren't very good this year.
Misopogon: Well, as I was saying, there were a bunch of....yeah, we weren't very good this year.
Friend: So...are you guys gonna fire Rich Rodriguez?
I've decided that unless you've been dissecting every single play on offense and defense, and were around for the recruiting and early departures etc., and past seasons of each and every player on the team, there is no way to understand what happened last year, and there is no way someone has done that can parse it in 50 words or less. We were 3-9. We stunk. We'll be not very awesome next year too, in all likelihood. And then the program will improve.
As for combating ignorance in 20 words or less, I've been going with "Freshmen, walk-on QB, and the three-deep at every position but tailback was the guy eating pretzels in Row 6."
But not even every Michigan fan knows this. And we've been following this program, albeit from the outside, much more than your typical high school athlete, even one in the recruiting process. To the rest of the country, Rich Rod got a team with Michigan-level talent and took it to 3-9. In SEC land, you get fired for that, and that's the end of discussion.
If a coach says to Pearlie that RR's getting fired, and says he has a good source, and Pearlie likes that coach enough that he's considering playing for him, geez, of course he's gonna wonder at least.
I've had the same conversation with friends, especially ones from non-football hotbeds, and after a while I just say, "yeah, we stunk. We should be better next year." It drives me crazy, though, that Michigan has basically become a meme to certain recruits and fans - Michigan should never be bad, so when they are it must be because the coach failed horribly.