What is Joey D thinking? He better Sign Boozer and Gordon!
What is Joey D thinking? He better Sign Boozer and Gordon!
What's the problem? They're going to waive Oberto and free up more money. Not sure why this would cause you to stop being a fan...
Now signing defensive sieves like Gordon and Boozer, on the other hand...
What do you think our team should look like next year?
quick small guys, along with a selection of tall beefy guys. Hopefully all in shape with strong, lean physiques.
Just tank it and tank it hard. There is no one this off-season worth spending money on. Boozer plays maybe 40 games a year and Gordon is just a SG. You can find shooting guard anywhere.
Go for broke next year. Get a top 5 pick, 1-2 good if not great Free agents next year and make a run.
Okay, so thats a reasonable reaction...
You're no longer a Piston fan because they traded a guy who averaged 3.5 points per game?
with the Pistons...I'm guessing you stopped being a Lions fan in the early 60's.
I stopped being a Lions fan in 1988 which also happens to be the year I was born.
1988 was the year I graduated high school. When you gain more experience as a sports fan, you will realize that all great teams go through cycles where they regroup after multiple title runs. (The Red Wings excepted). It was painful for Pistons fans to have a team that didn't even make the conference finals this year after growing to expect that. The Pistons are on decline and changes must be made to put together another contender. This was one such move and a relatively minor one. There will be more to come.
Yes, the Red Wings are excepted. The DEAD WINGS on the other hand...
this explains a lot.
Move away from the computer. Your allegiance to a sports team should not become in dispute over trading role players. Good lord.
has a horrible track record, so there's that. There's also no way that Boozer or anyone else could replace Amir's 3.5PPG. The end is near.
DWade instead of Darko. there. problem solved.
or Mello for that matter
Darko was a lock for that #2 spot. If James was not in that Draft, Darko would have been the #1 pick. Darko before draft = huge upside Darko after = Huge bust
This is true. Keep in mind that every NBA GM was erect for Darko. This was not a bad pick by Dumars because every other GM would have done it in a heart beat. HANDS DOWN. Managers mouth's salivate like Pavlov's dogs over a big from Europe. Hell, any european player. Hoping he is next Manu, or parker, or gasol..etc. etc. Just bad luck. If they get 3rd pick instead they get melo or bosh or wade (probably bosh because they were set at the 3 with tay (and dumars is and always will be a major tay fan and value him as he truly is)
I guess Mello or even D.Wade would have been a safer pick but your right Darko's upside was tremendous at the time. Considering the Pistons just won a championship, it was a risk worth taking.
This is quite a surprising statement because judging by his avatar he seems like a pretty balanced guy.
Balanced is one thing I am not, but It started by drafting Darko then trading for AI and now trading away Amir (IMO is a future all-star)
Wait, you started to lose interest in the Pistons when they drafted Darko? They drafted him one year before they won it all.
During that same period I was watching Bosh Melo and D Wade dominate, but don't get me wrong I was still a fan. If we had drafted the likes of Bosh we could have won back to back.
Do you realize that over half of all NBA franchises have never won a championship at all? Be grateful for the title in '04. Joe D built that team from scratch. He's earned a mulligan or two.
What about 3 or 4? I am greatful for the championship but I'm getting sick of this trading talent for the 2010 free agency. Lebron is going to stay or to NY, Wade is staying, Kobe is staying, Mcgrady is done, Bosh wants to re-sign, Amare well isn't coming to Detroit.
But don't you understand that their current team isn't very good? Stuckey isn't a PG, Hamilton is steeply on the decline, and Prince has maybe 2 more peak years left. They NEED to turn shit over.
And Dumars took them from one of the worst teams to one of the best in a heartbeat - you badly need some perspective.
I'm sorry, but you are coming off as a classic spoiled fan. In a 30-team league, the Pistons have reached the final four six times, the finals twice and won it all once since 2003 - and you're bitching that it wasn't good enough. The only franchise to do better from 2003-08 was San Antonio. You're bitching that Detroit was "only" the second-best franchise in the league over an extended period.
As for the Billups and Johnson trades, I suggest you wait until the 2010 free-agent period is actually over before you rip them. A year from now, you might be relieved to be rid of an old Billups and his huge contract. And Johnson might never pan out.
I thought Bosh didn't want to resign and that detroit was looking at him
We may have been better off with Bosh, but we were a silly Rasheed play from winning a championship in 05 as well. As for the other stuff, Chauncey and the core group weren't going to win a title against the top 3 in the east or anybody in the west this year, these are all moves to clear room and start dealing.
Do you also realize...had we gotten Bosh, we don't get sheed and the infamous Brawl probably never happens and the Pacers are the 2004 champs (pre-brawl they were best team in NBA or the lakers were).
Attacks on Dumars based on the 2003 draft are both unappreciative of the real success of the teams he's put together and completely ignorant of the conventional wisdom of the time.
Personal attacks are no way to address a poorly made point. That said, you are retarded. Please think more.
then Rasheed would have never came here and he was the one that pushed the Pistons to the Championship. He also cost them the following year but none the less.
It is always easier to second guess.
Don't know about that one.
He's got the potential, watch him blossom now that he's not stuck behind anyone. My prediction he averages 15 ppg 8rpg and 2 bpg. With sheed and dyse likely gone gone he would have been very good. Now he'll help another team.
In order for Amir to average those numbers, he'd also have to average 11.3 fouls per game.
Players were pushing him around and the only way he could stop them was to foul. Yes, he HAD a lot of upside but there is a time and place to just let a guy go and that time seems to be now.
A symptom of a hopeless homer is one that's convinced that their reserves are better than most starters on other teams.
Pro tip: the guy could barely get on the floor on the 8th best team in the lesser conference. He's not that good.
Amir's a fine player, don't take this the wrong way, but . . .
people made the same argument about Darko.
wait, WAIT. So... lemme double check your claims: Now that Amir Johnson isn't behind a 35 year old with two bum knees and a 6'10 guy who doesn't play in the post and has a solid reputation of slackerness he'll blossom....
What exactly were his obstacles to overcome?
Are you claiming Joe D, LB, Flip Saunders, Michael Curry all were wrong in their talent assessment of him?
Just stop. Your prediction is nothing more than throwing pasta on the wall.
Next thing you know, They'll be attempting to trade Prince, Hamilton, and Stucky for Rondo and Allen!
HA! Like that'll ever happen...
Allen's 18M off the books next year would be great. Rondo is a young border line great PG and Prince is over rated, Hamilton has not been the same without Billups, and Stuckey will be a good roll player for years to come.
He always cuts bait when he makes a poor move, which is something that too many egomaniacal GMs fail to do (i.e. Mateen Cleaves). His acquisition of Rasheed Wallace was brilliant, and I would not count him out in this offseason. Pistons fans are spoiled from the consistent excellence that Joe D helped provide. It may take a few years, but he should make them a contender in a few years. I would run away from both Boozer and Gordon, because they are not complete players. Also, just because you have money, it does not mean that you have to spend it. Lebron, Kobe and D-Wade will probably all not come to Motown, but I like our chances with our financial standing, sound management and strong foundation (Prince, Hamilton, Stuckey).
I second that. In fact, Dumars may have been so successful in his previous trades on the free agent market that the other teams may be getting wise to trading with him. They don't want to get schooled like they have before.
He's not a starting player and may get better as he gets older, but his BB IQ seems low.
On Gordon and Boozer: Hopefully we can do better. They are good scorers, but pretty poor defenders. We still need a PG (Stuckey is a SG not a PG) and a true center (please don't give me Kwame Brown). This draft hopefully will give us a big (Clark, Johnson, or Mullens) in the 1st and another big in the 2nd (Gibson or Heyvelt). Douglas or Mills at PG and a player like Meeks with the last pick
Draft might look like this:
#15: Earl Clark: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Earl-Clark-488/
#35: Pat Mills: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Patrick-Mills-1362/
#39: Josh Heyvelt: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Josh-Heytvelt-549/
#44: Jodie Meeks: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jodie-Meeks-5529/
I'm a big Amir fan ever since his first basket was that windmill dunk. I agree there are better players out there but don't kid yourselves Amare and Bosh ain't coming. Who else is better than boozer that we can reasonably get?
I like that draft
I don't like that draft
Bosh would be nice, but he is no #1 on a championship team. He would be a well suited second fiddle though. We will make a strong push for him and I hear we are going to push hard for either Wade or Paul sometime in the future. Dumars knows the value of a world class PG.
CP3 signed a 5 year extension IIRC.
Also rumor has it that Bosh will follow LeBron wherever he goes. He has some serious man love for him.
they need to boot curry for laimbeer. i know curry has only had a year, but I (as well as a lot of people) have no faith in him as a head coach. i don't think he can make the jump from assistant to head coach.
I tried to find a pic, I remember it from an old Nintendo Power ad when the game came out, of Bill himself adorning this ridiculous armor suit with fog around him, staring menacingly into the camera. The interwebs has failed me. Or have I failed it?
Anyway, Bill coming on as Pistons coach would revive my interest in NBA bball fo shizzy. Now that he's retired from the Shock, it's gotta happen!
I had that game for SNES. It was fun - you played defense by hacking the crap out of people. You could gradually upgrade your roster until, at the end, you could stack it with five Bill Laimbeers.
+1 for Combat Basketball reference
Dumars did his buddy a favor giving him the HC position. It was a win-win. He dumped salary and picked up AI (which kept the fans happy in the beginning). I think he knew the team would suck so he hired his bud to be the coach for a season as a trial run. If Curry made that team compete Dumars knew he had a good coach, if Curry didn't, well he got some experience. He has coache din the play-offs and some team will give him a chance. Laimbeer will be a fine coach though IMO.
Hell, I was upset when they took Flip instead of Laimbeer. The move to Curry was worse. Laimbeer has been groomed for head coach for years.
I generally could care less about the NBA but these sorts of shrewd, ruthless maneuvers with people's lives and ambitions gets me all riled up like nothing else... except maybe a walk through the fish market on a hot August night
Amir Johnson seems like a nice kid.
But he sucks at basketball, so who cares?
He's in the NBA therefore does not suck.
point of reference
.....Uwe Blab, Bill Wennington, Gheorghe Muresan, Ndude Ebi, Billy Curley, Leon Smith.
"He's in the NBA therefore does not suck."
By that argument, who cares? The Pistons will be a basketball team full of players who do not suck no matter what, because they're in the NBA.
I don't know why anyone's arguing this with you though. By the looks and sounds of it, I'd really rather you weren't a fan of any team I'm a fan of. Go ahead and stop being a Pistons fan and never post about the Pistons again; my life certainly won't be the worse for it.
Salary cap dump. We also cleared up enough cap space to pick up another 1st round pick if we desire.
You know who last high schooler ever drafted was? Amir Johnson. He has a high ceiling... correction he HAD a high ceiling. Now he just has a ceiling. He is young, but I just don't see him getting better. Way to foul prone. Think Greg Oden minus upside. That isn't good. Yes he still has potential. I would give him a 25% chance (mainly cause it is his number) of him becoming a decent STARTER. 5% chance of him becoming "all-star caliber". He is done. Career 4th to 5th best man off the bench (not to be confused with 4th to 5th best player on team...but OFF BENCH)
We havn't been winning because we traded Darko.
OUR VICTORY CIGAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!
to play for Curry. While the Darko pick ended up being a serious mistake the hiring of Curry is still Joe D's worst move ever. Freeing up cap space is a great idea if you actually have a shot at landing a big time free agents.
The Pistons best bet is a trade because historically they have not been able to sign big boys.
You realize that a massive expiring contract (like...Ray Allen?) is a massive trade chip, right?
We need a big man.
this thread makes my brain hurt. Amir Johnson is not that good. This is not a big deal at all. Also, a guy earlier said that the OP needs perspective (which he does) because he was born in 1988. I was born in 1987 and I have perspective. Some people my age do, in fact, know what they're talking about.
IMO I think Amir will be that good. Really? I need perspective I thought this whole post was my perspective just because not everyone agrees doesn't mean I'm wrong. There is not a single topic on this board that everyone will agree upon. Truth be told I am still a Pistons fan, and it has to do more with the team dumping the 09-10 season for 2010 free agency.(I posted my feelings about that earlier)I know what I'm talking about I'm an Amir Johnson fan and to trade him away for a player we are more than likely not going to sign is just baffling.I think his ceiling is that of a Chris Bosh/Amare Stodumire type player.
Chris Bosh? Are you serious?
Amir Johnson is 22. When Chris Bosh was 22, he averaged 22.5 ppg and 9.2 rpg and set career highs in FG% and assists. Johnson came right out of high school; Bosh spent only one year in college. At what point do you think Amir Johnson is going to develop into Chris Bosh?
Amare Stoudamire came straight from high school, and when he was 22, averaged 26 ppg and 8.2 rpg, and almost 30 ppg in a 15-game playoff run. Just exactly when is Amir Johnson going to turn into Amare Stoudamire?
And don't tell me "oh, he's stuck behind Dice and whatever." If Amir Johnson had that kind of talent, Dice would be stuck behind him.
The experiment wasn't working. Period. Let it go. Be an Amir Johnson fan all you want, but prepare to buy a different team's jersey every other year.
I said he's going to be that "type" and of player(best case scenario). I'm not saying he's going to have 25 and 10, but rather a high tempo beat most PF down the field. If he was in Phoenix (instead of Diaw or Amare) with their high tempo offense he would easily score 20 and 8 with regularity. As for being stuck behind dice IMO that ruined his development. Amir should have been starting all year dice is a joke as a starter and Curry is a joke for starting him. Curry didn't trust the younger players and the only reason Stuckey played all year was Joey D forced that issue.(plus AI got "hurt")
I said he's going to be that "type" and of player(best case scenario). I'm not saying he's going to have 25 and 10, but rather a high tempo beat most PF down the field.
Marcus Camby is that "type" of player too, what's your point about "types"? Anybody who's about the height/weight of Bosh or Stoudemire could claim to be that "type" of player, but that's silly and useless. As is any comparison of Amir Johnson to two of the league's superstars.
If he was in Phoenix (instead of Diaw or Amare) with their high tempo offense he would easily score 20 and 8 with regularity.
Way to back off that Amare comparison. So he's not going to play as well as Amare, but he's going to put up Amare's stats on Amare's team?
Also: Bullshit - Amir is not and never will be a 20 and 8 guy in the NBA. Or even Europe.
As for being stuck behind dice IMO that ruined his development. Amir should have been starting all year dice is a joke as a starter and Curry is a joke for starting him. Curry didn't trust the younger players and the only reason Stuckey played all year was Joey D forced that issue.
Oh, right. The only reason a guy with Amare Stoudamire's talent didn't play instead of a creaky-kneed 35-year-old whose jump shot failed him is because the coach, who was routinely called one of the most intelligent players in the league during his playing days, is just too stupid.
That doesn't sound completely retarded to you? Can you hear yourself?
Curry doesn't trust the younger players? Well, except for Maxiell, Afflalo, and Bynum, all of whom got regular burn in the rotation. Doesn't it say anything to you that Johnson started off in the rotation too and saw his playing time crash and burn as the season went on?
Like I said. Be an Amir Johnson fan all you want. You're going to spend the next four or five years buying three different jerseys to support him and claiming that every coach he's ever had just never gave him a chance. Then once he's done bouncing around the NBA, you can hop a plane to Croatia and watch him scrape out a living with KK Zagreb.
"Curry doesn't trust the younger players? Well, except for Maxiell, Afflalo, and Bynum"
Maxiell is idk 26-27 (4-5 years the elder) and should have been the starter all year instead of dice.
Bynum same i think 27 and only played because he was the only true PG on the team (Stuckey is a combo guard and AI is done and really a SG)
Afflalo again what 25 and really only played maybe 10 mins a game and had his stats balloned when hamilton was out.
Afflalo is 23, one year older than Johnson, and Afflalo played 16 minutes a game in both the regular season and playoffs, which is pretty standard for a reserve.
I stopped being a Pistons fan when they decided to pretend a team of millionaires were "going to work".
So you weren't a fan when they won the 2004 championship? Right.
Nope. I was openly cheering for Karl Malone. I've since become a Clippers fan as a protest against bandwagoning.
I think they should've traded Amir for LeBron, Kobe, Chris Paul, and Dwight Howard.
seriously. Dumars is such a twit.