Rumors concerning Jim Leyland's immediate future are swirling.....
spoiler alert: i linked this
MAggs hitting the bricks maybe?
Please tell me this is a joke!
So, anyone ever figure out why they didn't sign him to an extension last year with only a year left or fire him in the first place?
Supposedly, Leyland and Dombroski haven't been getting along for quite some time now. If indeed Leyland's contract is being extended, I would have to believe it is because Illitch wanted it done.
Does that mean Dombrowski is definitely done in Dtown?
I was never sure if I loved him or hated him. I couldn't decide whether it was Leland, Dombrowski or just bad luck with taking chances on players that has caused their dismalness.
Dombrowski is safe for at least another year.
no, i know. But Leland's contract is through 2011 (ridiculous) does that mean he walks away in a year? Dombrowski seems to be one of the better GMs out there. Maybe I'm wrong...
Remember like 5 years ago when they were the 2nd worst team in the history of baseball? Remember going to the World Series 2 years ago? Remember that they're in first place now?
Dombrowski is why they're fucking relevant. I'm not saying he's done everything right, but shit - "dismalness"?
I consider the WS an outlier in their development. Last year they were brutal this year leading the division is like being the least ugly guy in a leper colony. If they were truly a decent team they'd be running away with this division.
I think you are slightly overlooking the fact that from 1994-2005, the Tigers never posted a winning season, and recorded several 100-loss seasons (including a 43-119 thing of beauty in 2003). The franchise was an absolute joke. Now it's reached a point at which people like yourself are bitching that it's only in first place by a few games.
i remember sitting with about 1500 other people in comerica during the early 00s and hoping they'd win 50. now they suck because they are only in first by three? spoiled kids these days.
call it a spoiled kid all you want, if you think that this team in first place is a legit first place team, I think you should review your standards.
I'm grateful they're in first place and more power to them but I expect the other shoe to fall any day.
I don't like to pump up teams that struggle to prove they're even mediocre.
And believe me, I was around during those dark days in the 90s. I remember sitting behind homeplate (on free tickets some dude gave me at the box office) when Luis Polonia and Dean Palmer were the bright spots in a win over the Yankees...A few months later Luis Polonia was out of the league.... yeah.
if you read my comments i'm pretty clear the tigers aren't some dominant juggernaut. but they play in a weak division, and they're winning it, and i like the tigers, so i enjoy it because it makes me happy. with that, you can fuck yourself and i'll never be reading you again.
fair enough. I love Detroit sports...except for the Lions. I just refuse to get excited about first place with a severely flawed product -- for now. Call me in September then I'll get excited.
Then do you really love Detroit sports if you're searching for something to get upset about when your team is in first place? Sports are supposed to be fun, not a source of constant umbrage.
Its not searching for something to get upset about. I enjoy watching them. I just see the writing on the wall. Galarraga is not a quality pitcher... Willis is done. Bondo may be done. Porcello and Verlander are legit. You can not win a division with a struggling offense and two pitchers...
I sure hope they prove me wrong or get an expected boost from someone.
...and Jackson is...? Galarraga has been terrible so far, I'll admit, but I remember some quality starts last year...and I also remember thinking last year that Verlander might have been a flash in the pan, but that has proven wrong.
I know this slump is depressing, but give me a god damn break. Slumps suck, for sure. But they happen to everyone, and they've happened to the tigers yearly since the Return to Relevance. We should be thanking the Ford that we're still in first in the worst of the slump
been watching until now, but feel I need to weigh in. It has been awesome watching this thread get skinnier and skinnier. Please continue the exchange until each post is only one word wide.
Sammy, you're a genius
What the hell, do you remember Randy Smith and trades with San Diego or Houston or whoever the hell it was and a platoon player starting at virtually every position? Dombrowski has done great as far as I'm concerned.
Why did it have to start raining, I could still be at the beach.
the yearly trade for brad ausmus, either to or from detroit, should have been a state holiday
dude is probably going to be a great manager one day. Maybe he can return to Detroit again... He'd have to take over the job in Mid-July some year, though.
In the Jewish tradition they still celebrate those trades in conjunction with Passover.
It probably would have been easier for the Tigers to contend if Smith would have dealt with franchises besides Houston and San Diego.
they didn't meet their agreement with FSN for guaranteed press conferences this year. So they were hoping they could exceed it this year by announcing their extension today and in three months when they collapse like a folding chair they can announce his firing, too.
Both Dombrowski and Leyland are doing a great job. Sure Dombrowski has made some terrible contracts of late, but he also brought in Maggs and Jackson and that seems to be working out well. he also has a great working relationship with the King of ALL that is Lame Scott Boras. Things are fine. We are contending once in a while and that is all you can ask for in baseball unless you have the unlimited wealth of the Yanks or Sox.
BTW, Boras just ripped the Tigers for benching Maggs.
Yeah I was gonna mention that ... I'm not sure Boras and the Tigers are feeling too lovey dovey right now. How much of that do you think is posturing on both sides? I feel like this Leyland extension was a direct response to Boras in some ways ...
It should be noted that Scott Boras also represents the Tigers number one pick in the '09 entry draft, one Jacob Turner. Those negotiations are now almost guaranteed to get ugly. Turner was, arguably, the second best pitcher in the draft.
This worries me going forward, because the Tigs have gotten some good benefits through their willingness to work with Boras, namely, Porcello.
but does sucking it up and letting Maggs reach that 33M accelerator really make sense to keep relations with Boras on the up and up?
and i have a crazy feeling things with boras will be just fine when illitch ponies up the dough for turner
I'd much rather have matzek, scheppers has the best stuff outside of strasburg, shelby miller is right around there...I don't like the pick...btw...he's high risk as a hser, and I'm ok with risks, but matzek is better right now, wouldn't cost much more, is a lefty, and, something dd and dc apparently don't care about, THROWS STRIKES!!!!!
So if you love lefties with heat that throw strikes, you at least loved the Oliver pick, right?
I would have liked a position player or starter more, with satterwhite, weindhart, and perry, they probably have enough relief in the system, especially since relief doesn't draw much trading interest. If he can find his curve again it could turn out well. I just think the tigers have enough project pitchers in the system, but only 1 lefty I can think of. Matzek is much more polished than turner, and if you are looking for pure upside, scheppers has more potential. The tigers window to be very good is about 2 years away, and both of those pitchers should be more valuable at that time than turner, who isn't much more than a hard thrower right now.
First of all, Boras is ripping the Tigers for benching Ordonez because Boras is Ordonez's agent and Ordonez gets contractual considerations for his player options the next two years provided that he gets 400 plate appearances. If Ordonez is benched, he may not reach 400 plate appearances, which means that $33 million over two seasons disappears for him (http://www.detnews.com/article/20090619/SPORTS0104/906190445/1361/search...).
Secondly, as a professional sports agent, Boras cannot neglect the financial interests of one client because he has a personal issue with an organization. He can warn his other clients (in this case, Turner) about the Tigers if he feels that the Tigers will somehow cheat them out of part of their contract, but in this case it is highly unlikely that Turner will not sign as he is a draft pick and would have to wait until next year in order to be drafted by someone else for (probably) less money.
Finally, Boras probably isn't all that angry at the Tigers because it is clear that Ordonez's production is down. However, as an agent, Boras will fight for his clients interest and in Boras's case, this involves using the press to attempt to sway public opinion in favor of his client by trying to persuade everybody that an outfielder with a .271 avg. and a .343 slg. who is a defensive liability and runs about as fast as Justin Boren deserves to be in the starting lineup everyday for a team with perhaps the deepest set of outfield prospects in the league.
If maggs wants to play, he can earn it. If they had cut him or where doing this late in the year, or maybe if maggs could hit the broadside of a barn or play even close to mediocre d, he could play. Until that time, noone has any right to bitch about maggs not playing.
In case you've never seen Drew Rosenhaus work, its an agents job to make outright ridiculous demands and call-outs.
But its also his clients job to hit. If he was doing ANYTHING, anything at all, I'd understand it, but he's hurting the team with his pathetic performance, he deserves to get benched.
Dombrowski isn't perfect, but him and Leyland did manage to take the Tigers from threatening 120 losses to the World Series ... and while flawed, the team is in first right now (somehow).
They have the worst division in baseball to thank for that
is it the worst, or is the best and they all beat each other up so much? huh? huh? huh?
yeah it's probably the worst
(plug for 97.1) there are only four teams that have been held to 3 runs or less more than the Tigers this year...three of them are in the AL Central.
I'm going to go with worst. Does less than 90 wins take the division this year?
definitely - i think the real question is if someone can win with it 79.
"I'm going to go with worst. Does less than 90 wins take the division this year? "
IIRC the year the Cards beat us in the Series they won their division with 87.
Although I think that was the case of the NL Central being highly competitive.
They actually went 83-78.
No - that Cards team had two above-average players.
The Cardinals had an 83-78 record. Apparently they didn't make up a rain out along the way. Their division also had two of the four worst teams in baseball in Pittsburgh and Chicago. The Brewers would have finished in last place in two of the other five divisions in baseball. (The AL & NL West) I would not call that competitive, but baseball's crazy in September / October...
Try 83 wins. And the NL Central was pretty bad that year. The two worst teams in the NL and 3 of the 4 worst records in the NL were all in that division. That division got absolutely pimp-slapped in interleague that year too. It was competitive in that three mediocre teams were in a close race for the division, but none of them really were any good.
A highly competitive division looks like the AL Central in 2006 (3 teams winning 90+ games, and a 4th just below .500) or the AL East this season.
The Cards won the World Series because a few hitters hit way better in the postseason than they did in the regular season (Yadier Molina in particular), everyone was finally healthy, and they got amazing pitching from such future Hall of Famers as Jeff Weaver and Jeff Suppan. Sometimes a mediocre team gets hot. Sometimes it happens in the playoffs. And of course, the Tigers pitchers playing "let's see how badly I can throw this to the guy at the base" didn't help matters.
Starting pitching doesn't have to be as deep either in the playoffs, something that should comfort tigers fans if they manage to win the AL Central Pillow fight.
Seeing as though every other team in the Central is having trouble reaching .500, I think 81 wins is enough this year
You might want to consider that the Twins are also in the division, a team that is generally better in the second half and has exploded during interleague play the past several seasons (a trend that they are in the process of repeating). I'd contend that the NL East, with two very mediocre teams in the Phillies, who have no pitching, and the Mets, who have a weak bottom of the order and a weak bottom four of the rotation, two weak teams in Florida and Atlanta, and one abysmal team in Washington is a worse division than the AL Central. Also, look at the run differential when evaluating a team in addition to their record. Every year, there is one or two statistical anomalies where a team loses a bunch of close games and wins a bunch of blowouts or vice versa.
To win 90 games, the Twins would have to play .600 baseball for the remainder of the year. I don't think they have the team for it. The twins will need to play .540 baseball (what they finished last year) to take them to 85 wins.
The Tigers can regress slightly and hit that number about .520 baseball.
(but I don't think they'll even manage that without adding a bat)